Timbuktube
Robin
I’ve been trying to mentor a younger RVFer. We’ve had a ton of long talks. He says I’ve helped him, but I worry the advice I’m giving him is too nuanced and un-relatable.
We are both millennials but things change fast. I’ve tried to encourage him to look after his body more than I did to avoid the chronic pain I now live with. That includes not joining the military/foreign legion or doing poorly paid manual labor that leads nowhere for a college graduate.
We are both college grads that found ourselves unemployed and in debt after school. We both come from broken homes that offer some support—but are also extremely hostile and isolating environments for a young person in need.
The support is minimal (hostile but free housing). It’s not really enough to effectively compete and thrive at a middle class level in the United States. So many other young adults get new cars, can take unpaid internships, or go back for masters degrees paid for by supportive parents.
It’s particularly frustrating because we both have a lack of focus. We both have professional degrees but were unable to get work in that field. Once 6 months goes by past graduation no one wants to hire you. (Not that anyone did at graduation.)
The support from home comes with strings attached that maybe doing more harm than good. The boomer generation can’t relate all that well. They will say “get a job at McDonald’s.” Then say you’re not living up to your potential for doing that work.
The alternative is being homeless, living in a car, and doing unpaid internships or poorly paid physical labor that takes a toll on the body. That’s the route I went and it took the best years of my youth with nothing to show for it professionally, academically, or fiscally.
In my youth, my reaction to this scenario was to tough it out on my own with minimal family support. I figured I was strong and had time on my side. However I was forced to let myself be taken advantage of in several work/volunteer/barter situations in order to have housing, food, and barely enough cash to get by. This went on for years before I finally bailed on life.
I wasn’t too passionate about anything I did. Often I started out passionate but the bureaucracy, my over-leveraged position, and being taken advantage of by others killed it for me. The work was always seasonal or temporary anyway.
The last job I had was decent but vanished in the 2008 crash. That’s when I started living in a van.
Arnold Schwartzenneger has a graduation speech that’s on social media where he talks about the myth of the self-made man. He’s not knocking hard work. He points out all the help he got from other people when he moved to the USA.
He had nothing, so other bodybuilders came over with food, silverware, plates, etc. That kind of thing doesn’t happen in USA unless you’re in some kind of tight knit community and likely an immigrant.
I remember facing bills that were tens of thousands of dollars. I asked for help. A handful of times my dad was able to give me a few hundred dollars. He’s asked me for more money as many times over the years..
If you’re a random white guy who looks normal, almost everyone will write you off as less deserving than other Americans. There’s no special organization to turn to besides maybe the church—which doesn’t work for everyone—though I’m sure that will be many peoples answer here.
If you don’t actually believe what are you supposed to do? Pretend and take the help??
Anyway, this kid is not sure if he should stay in the USA and try to grind out the hard work for 10-20 years; or leave and teach English in another country where his quality of life will be much higher in almost every way.
I’ve told him that a large part of me wishes I went abroad to teach at his age. Those wasted years of my mid twenties were spent struggling and failing to stay afloat in our broken American system. I endured untold horrors and had no real life.
I could have spent that time assimilating another country that’s less competitive and having an actual life at the same time. I would probably be married with kids and much happier now. Though a piece of me would wonder what would have happened if I stayed in the USA.
A part of me wishes I made more of
stink and demanded my friends and family help me. They all say things like, “If I only knew how bad it was for you...”
The truth is they knew and didn’t want to help or couldn’t. Most of them still have their childhood bedroom to go home to. They can’t imagine what it’s like not to have that level of support. Instead in its place having emotional annihilation and practical subversion.
Most of the women in my family found boyfriends to live with to get on their feet. Then dumped them. Most of my friends were busy building their careers and supporting girlfriends.
As an example, just a few years ago my van was broken down in a parking lot in LA (where my sister lived with her then boyfriend). She refused to meet me for a coffee because, “I don’t want to get stuck in traffic.”
I didn’t want anything from her. Just someone to talk to. I ended up getting the van hauled off to a junk yard with most of my possessions still in it.
I’ve watched so many women in my life cry and get offered help when they needed it (or more accurately wanted it but didn’t really even need it). It doesn’t work that way for young men. We aren’t allowed to do that. Yet obviously a young man needs guidance and help starting out on life.
My family aren’t horrible people. But we don’t cooperate like an Asian-American family does. It’s kinda every man for himself. We even sabotage each other sometimes.
I also pointed out to him that no one will want to help him soon. Past age 25 or so, he will be viewed as an entitled failure by everyone. No one wants to help a 40 year old man.
He’s pointed out that no one wanted to help him as a kid either. He ended up in jail as a teen. The best the system did for him was avoid a felony conviction. Though he’ll probably never fully recover from that if he stays in the USA.
It’s a nuanced situation. I don’t want to tell him to “toughen up” and “bite the bullet”. He was already thrown to the wolves as a kid. He toughened up fast to the point of winding up in jail.
If he goes back to chauvinism the odds are he’ll waste his youth and end up in a compromised position economically, socially, and physically—worse having never integrated into a community or started a family. I do think he’s better off going abroad.
America works for the top 50% of people. Bottom 50% people can make it if they’re incredibly focused and not struggling with too much baggage or societal hate.
Still, I’m hesitant to tell him to emigrate from the USA. He’d have to pick a country in Asia, sever US ties completely, and hope for the best. I’m not sure that won’t end up also putting him in a compromised position after a decade of grinding it out.
I don’t want him ending up like me. A mismanaged waste of potential. A loser who was unable to successfully compete in the USA. Then went abroad way too late in life and still kept one foot in America the whole time.
I’m looking at a tourist based retirement in SEA. Or a compromised relationship with an older woman in EA. Or trying one last time to go back to school in America (already have multiple degrees) and get into the US job market.
I guess the real problem is I’m a terrible example and mentor. But in a way that’s good. I can be an example of what not to do.
We are both millennials but things change fast. I’ve tried to encourage him to look after his body more than I did to avoid the chronic pain I now live with. That includes not joining the military/foreign legion or doing poorly paid manual labor that leads nowhere for a college graduate.
We are both college grads that found ourselves unemployed and in debt after school. We both come from broken homes that offer some support—but are also extremely hostile and isolating environments for a young person in need.
The support is minimal (hostile but free housing). It’s not really enough to effectively compete and thrive at a middle class level in the United States. So many other young adults get new cars, can take unpaid internships, or go back for masters degrees paid for by supportive parents.
It’s particularly frustrating because we both have a lack of focus. We both have professional degrees but were unable to get work in that field. Once 6 months goes by past graduation no one wants to hire you. (Not that anyone did at graduation.)
The support from home comes with strings attached that maybe doing more harm than good. The boomer generation can’t relate all that well. They will say “get a job at McDonald’s.” Then say you’re not living up to your potential for doing that work.
The alternative is being homeless, living in a car, and doing unpaid internships or poorly paid physical labor that takes a toll on the body. That’s the route I went and it took the best years of my youth with nothing to show for it professionally, academically, or fiscally.
In my youth, my reaction to this scenario was to tough it out on my own with minimal family support. I figured I was strong and had time on my side. However I was forced to let myself be taken advantage of in several work/volunteer/barter situations in order to have housing, food, and barely enough cash to get by. This went on for years before I finally bailed on life.
I wasn’t too passionate about anything I did. Often I started out passionate but the bureaucracy, my over-leveraged position, and being taken advantage of by others killed it for me. The work was always seasonal or temporary anyway.
The last job I had was decent but vanished in the 2008 crash. That’s when I started living in a van.
Arnold Schwartzenneger has a graduation speech that’s on social media where he talks about the myth of the self-made man. He’s not knocking hard work. He points out all the help he got from other people when he moved to the USA.
He had nothing, so other bodybuilders came over with food, silverware, plates, etc. That kind of thing doesn’t happen in USA unless you’re in some kind of tight knit community and likely an immigrant.
I remember facing bills that were tens of thousands of dollars. I asked for help. A handful of times my dad was able to give me a few hundred dollars. He’s asked me for more money as many times over the years..
If you’re a random white guy who looks normal, almost everyone will write you off as less deserving than other Americans. There’s no special organization to turn to besides maybe the church—which doesn’t work for everyone—though I’m sure that will be many peoples answer here.
If you don’t actually believe what are you supposed to do? Pretend and take the help??
Anyway, this kid is not sure if he should stay in the USA and try to grind out the hard work for 10-20 years; or leave and teach English in another country where his quality of life will be much higher in almost every way.
I’ve told him that a large part of me wishes I went abroad to teach at his age. Those wasted years of my mid twenties were spent struggling and failing to stay afloat in our broken American system. I endured untold horrors and had no real life.
I could have spent that time assimilating another country that’s less competitive and having an actual life at the same time. I would probably be married with kids and much happier now. Though a piece of me would wonder what would have happened if I stayed in the USA.
A part of me wishes I made more of
stink and demanded my friends and family help me. They all say things like, “If I only knew how bad it was for you...”
The truth is they knew and didn’t want to help or couldn’t. Most of them still have their childhood bedroom to go home to. They can’t imagine what it’s like not to have that level of support. Instead in its place having emotional annihilation and practical subversion.
Most of the women in my family found boyfriends to live with to get on their feet. Then dumped them. Most of my friends were busy building their careers and supporting girlfriends.
As an example, just a few years ago my van was broken down in a parking lot in LA (where my sister lived with her then boyfriend). She refused to meet me for a coffee because, “I don’t want to get stuck in traffic.”
I didn’t want anything from her. Just someone to talk to. I ended up getting the van hauled off to a junk yard with most of my possessions still in it.
I’ve watched so many women in my life cry and get offered help when they needed it (or more accurately wanted it but didn’t really even need it). It doesn’t work that way for young men. We aren’t allowed to do that. Yet obviously a young man needs guidance and help starting out on life.
My family aren’t horrible people. But we don’t cooperate like an Asian-American family does. It’s kinda every man for himself. We even sabotage each other sometimes.
I also pointed out to him that no one will want to help him soon. Past age 25 or so, he will be viewed as an entitled failure by everyone. No one wants to help a 40 year old man.
He’s pointed out that no one wanted to help him as a kid either. He ended up in jail as a teen. The best the system did for him was avoid a felony conviction. Though he’ll probably never fully recover from that if he stays in the USA.
It’s a nuanced situation. I don’t want to tell him to “toughen up” and “bite the bullet”. He was already thrown to the wolves as a kid. He toughened up fast to the point of winding up in jail.
If he goes back to chauvinism the odds are he’ll waste his youth and end up in a compromised position economically, socially, and physically—worse having never integrated into a community or started a family. I do think he’s better off going abroad.
America works for the top 50% of people. Bottom 50% people can make it if they’re incredibly focused and not struggling with too much baggage or societal hate.
Still, I’m hesitant to tell him to emigrate from the USA. He’d have to pick a country in Asia, sever US ties completely, and hope for the best. I’m not sure that won’t end up also putting him in a compromised position after a decade of grinding it out.
I don’t want him ending up like me. A mismanaged waste of potential. A loser who was unable to successfully compete in the USA. Then went abroad way too late in life and still kept one foot in America the whole time.
I’m looking at a tourist based retirement in SEA. Or a compromised relationship with an older woman in EA. Or trying one last time to go back to school in America (already have multiple degrees) and get into the US job market.
I guess the real problem is I’m a terrible example and mentor. But in a way that’s good. I can be an example of what not to do.
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