Being Strong is Wrong

I’ve been trying to mentor a younger RVFer. We’ve had a ton of long talks. He says I’ve helped him, but I worry the advice I’m giving him is too nuanced and un-relatable.

We are both millennials but things change fast. I’ve tried to encourage him to look after his body more than I did to avoid the chronic pain I now live with. That includes not joining the military/foreign legion or doing poorly paid manual labor that leads nowhere for a college graduate.

We are both college grads that found ourselves unemployed and in debt after school. We both come from broken homes that offer some support—but are also extremely hostile and isolating environments for a young person in need.

The support is minimal (hostile but free housing). It’s not really enough to effectively compete and thrive at a middle class level in the United States. So many other young adults get new cars, can take unpaid internships, or go back for masters degrees paid for by supportive parents.

It’s particularly frustrating because we both have a lack of focus. We both have professional degrees but were unable to get work in that field. Once 6 months goes by past graduation no one wants to hire you. (Not that anyone did at graduation.)

The support from home comes with strings attached that maybe doing more harm than good. The boomer generation can’t relate all that well. They will say “get a job at McDonald’s.” Then say you’re not living up to your potential for doing that work.

The alternative is being homeless, living in a car, and doing unpaid internships or poorly paid physical labor that takes a toll on the body. That’s the route I went and it took the best years of my youth with nothing to show for it professionally, academically, or fiscally.

In my youth, my reaction to this scenario was to tough it out on my own with minimal family support. I figured I was strong and had time on my side. However I was forced to let myself be taken advantage of in several work/volunteer/barter situations in order to have housing, food, and barely enough cash to get by. This went on for years before I finally bailed on life.

I wasn’t too passionate about anything I did. Often I started out passionate but the bureaucracy, my over-leveraged position, and being taken advantage of by others killed it for me. The work was always seasonal or temporary anyway.

The last job I had was decent but vanished in the 2008 crash. That’s when I started living in a van.

Arnold Schwartzenneger has a graduation speech that’s on social media where he talks about the myth of the self-made man. He’s not knocking hard work. He points out all the help he got from other people when he moved to the USA.

He had nothing, so other bodybuilders came over with food, silverware, plates, etc. That kind of thing doesn’t happen in USA unless you’re in some kind of tight knit community and likely an immigrant.

I remember facing bills that were tens of thousands of dollars. I asked for help. A handful of times my dad was able to give me a few hundred dollars. He’s asked me for more money as many times over the years..

If you’re a random white guy who looks normal, almost everyone will write you off as less deserving than other Americans. There’s no special organization to turn to besides maybe the church—which doesn’t work for everyone—though I’m sure that will be many peoples answer here.

If you don’t actually believe what are you supposed to do? Pretend and take the help??

Anyway, this kid is not sure if he should stay in the USA and try to grind out the hard work for 10-20 years; or leave and teach English in another country where his quality of life will be much higher in almost every way.

I’ve told him that a large part of me wishes I went abroad to teach at his age. Those wasted years of my mid twenties were spent struggling and failing to stay afloat in our broken American system. I endured untold horrors and had no real life.

I could have spent that time assimilating another country that’s less competitive and having an actual life at the same time. I would probably be married with kids and much happier now. Though a piece of me would wonder what would have happened if I stayed in the USA.

A part of me wishes I made more of

stink and demanded my friends and family help me. They all say things like, “If I only knew how bad it was for you...”

The truth is they knew and didn’t want to help or couldn’t. Most of them still have their childhood bedroom to go home to. They can’t imagine what it’s like not to have that level of support. Instead in its place having emotional annihilation and practical subversion.

Most of the women in my family found boyfriends to live with to get on their feet. Then dumped them. Most of my friends were busy building their careers and supporting girlfriends.

As an example, just a few years ago my van was broken down in a parking lot in LA (where my sister lived with her then boyfriend). She refused to meet me for a coffee because, “I don’t want to get stuck in traffic.”

I didn’t want anything from her. Just someone to talk to. I ended up getting the van hauled off to a junk yard with most of my possessions still in it.

I’ve watched so many women in my life cry and get offered help when they needed it (or more accurately wanted it but didn’t really even need it). It doesn’t work that way for young men. We aren’t allowed to do that. Yet obviously a young man needs guidance and help starting out on life.

My family aren’t horrible people. But we don’t cooperate like an Asian-American family does. It’s kinda every man for himself. We even sabotage each other sometimes.

I also pointed out to him that no one will want to help him soon. Past age 25 or so, he will be viewed as an entitled failure by everyone. No one wants to help a 40 year old man.

He’s pointed out that no one wanted to help him as a kid either. He ended up in jail as a teen. The best the system did for him was avoid a felony conviction. Though he’ll probably never fully recover from that if he stays in the USA.

It’s a nuanced situation. I don’t want to tell him to “toughen up” and “bite the bullet”. He was already thrown to the wolves as a kid. He toughened up fast to the point of winding up in jail.

If he goes back to chauvinism the odds are he’ll waste his youth and end up in a compromised position economically, socially, and physically—worse having never integrated into a community or started a family. I do think he’s better off going abroad.

America works for the top 50% of people. Bottom 50% people can make it if they’re incredibly focused and not struggling with too much baggage or societal hate.

Still, I’m hesitant to tell him to emigrate from the USA. He’d have to pick a country in Asia, sever US ties completely, and hope for the best. I’m not sure that won’t end up also putting him in a compromised position after a decade of grinding it out.

I don’t want him ending up like me. A mismanaged waste of potential. A loser who was unable to successfully compete in the USA. Then went abroad way too late in life and still kept one foot in America the whole time.

I’m looking at a tourist based retirement in SEA. Or a compromised relationship with an older woman in EA. Or trying one last time to go back to school in America (already have multiple degrees) and get into the US job market.

I guess the real problem is I’m a terrible example and mentor. But in a way that’s good. I can be an example of what not to do.
 
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One should train the body in a way to be able to handle pain and suffering, in a way that makes your soul stronger. A weak and frail body may be high in spirit, but that is not so common these days because there are so many distractions and temptations all around us, and those without a code of rigidity to keep out the bad sin (lust, gluttony, pride, wrathful attitudes, and sexual deviance primarily) will suffer and descend into sin without a doubt. I have noticed it is easier to resist if you are strong in body that work on for specific reasons. Bodybuilders are some of the most homosexual and deviant people out there, but I have met a few who claim to be Christian. I would never call myself a bodybuilder, but one who strengthens his physical body to assist in withstanding the agonies levied against our souls in these times.

Do not compromise yourself on any front if you can. None of us are real mentors, we can only take our own individual and unique experiences and relate them to others in the hopes that someone makes a connection and learns from our mistakes.
 
Blaming homosexuality and not being a strong enough man in the same post and the first reply. Bear any cross...

Not much actionable info. I guess that’s not the way it works. He should also repent and accept Christ, I guess...

The reason I mention Arnold is he’s a relatable example everyone knows. He’s an American immigrant success story. But he couldn’t become president and had a divorce. So obviously there are limitations on what America allows and doesn’t allow even for wildly successful hard working immigrants.

Most people are not as driven or focused as him. They also can’t use steroids anymore. There’s no point in yelling at him to be more focused or try harder, is there?

I’ve tried to coax him off the addictions to things like fast food. And to hop off the American exceptionalism/chauvinism train. I don’t think it’s inherently bad and there’s a lot of truth in it. But he’s just along for that ride as a hobo. Probably never going to be up in first class.

With the effort that would take and risk for being canceled, I lean towards cutting US ties and working hard abroad as an emigrant.
 
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FactusIRX

Kingfisher
I wouldn't teach English abroad in Asia. You'll be treated like garbage there, and it's not a good career path. Plus, Asian countries don't have good churches, so it difficult to develop your faith.

I grew up in a lower working class family. Young white men are treated like garbage in the west. More so if your family doesn't have any money. That's inarguable at this point. Treat the system as hostile. Extract what you can for your benefit. Don't let pride every get in your way. Be strategic and pursue the things you want to pursue.
 
The early bird catches the worm!

You only have one mother!

What other maxims shall we throw at him?

I’m glad some people were able to work hard and make America work for them. Truly. No hate.

I really hesitate to tell him that’s a viable option for him. It’s a lie or half truth at best.

The bigger issue is: is it worth it? I don’t know that it is. Not now in 2021 with other places in the world living normally for the past year and fatass pharm addicted America debating our feelings.
 

FactusIRX

Kingfisher
The early bird catches the worm!

You only have one mother!

What other maxims shall we throw at him?

I’m glad some people were able to work hard and make America work for them. Truly. No hate.

I really hesitate to tell him that’s a viable option for him. It’s a lie or half truth at best.
You need to learn how to quote posts, and it would be beneficial that if you are going to ask for advice that you at least try and be more personable.
 

Elipe

Kingfisher
While there's a certain logic to how Christianity inverts the typical relationship between the strong and the weak, it's also easily tortured logic. There's nothing wrong about being strong, and there is no inherent virtue in being weak. In fact, I would say that SJWism takes this inversion to an extreme, which is why you have the progressive stack with the "weakest" being on top. But the fact that our Satanic enemies use this kind of moral reasoning should alert us that this is maybe not how it really should work...

Rather, the biblical position is simply, to him who is given more, more is expected. The strong has a responsibility to protect the weak, not out of any virtue signaling, but because the weak either cannot help being weak or has the capability to learn from the strong and use the strong's example as a foundation for becoming strong. The former is charity, good and proper charity, because it is patterned after how the Lord, the strongest being of them all, cares for us weak, finite, frail beings and the latter is mentorship.

I think you put it best when you say that you could be an example to this young RvFer of what not to do. You've been there, you've struggled on the same journey, but you've done it before him, and you can put up the signposts along the way warning him where not to venture, so that he can stay on the narrow path.

The strong's weakness can be the strength of the weak, if the weak is willing and wise enough to learn from it.

Being strong isn't wrong. Being arrogant about being strong is wrong.

Likewise,

Being weak isn't inherently right. Being self-victimizing or wallowing in self-pity about it is wrong.
 
Right. But is America worthwhile for someone in his position? If so, why?

You can find Christian churches everywhere in 2021. Faith shouldn’t be part of the equation unless there’s a specific church he’s already integrated into maybe. Besides your personal relationship with God is as important.

No one is saying he has to teach English abroad forever. But it’s probably going to pay him more, defer his loans, allow him to save more, give him confidence, a world of experience, quality of life, independence, etc.

We looked at his options in America. He’s not going to have any of that here. It will be a real struggle for him to have more than $50 a week in disposable income if he works the backbreaking jobs being offered to him.

I really regret not getting abroad earlier in life and staying for several years in a cooperative society. He’ll bring some problems with him wherever he goes of course. I just want him to understand the commitment and focus it in the right place.

I don’t want him thinking he’s young, invincible, and toiling away for two decades to be left with a divorce, physical pain, string of failed relationships, or endless things like that.

Thats my point about being strong is wrong. It’s more about acting strong and thinking you have control over things you don’t like aging, losing SMV, being unable to compete with more advantaged people, living in a broken society, etc.

He’s already probably typo tough on himself. I don’t think he needs more “toughen up” rhetoric. If anything he needs to accept that he’s not Superman and will only be pulling the temple walls down on himself.

I’d have gladly sacrificed my health and life if it was to support my children and wife. So they could have a better life. I honestly don’t see that happening for him in the USA.

Ive also encouraged him to accept religion and be more personable. These are two of my problems for sure. I’m probably beyond hope now.

Ideally he’d get a remote job that gives him the ability to “work” in the USA while living abroad. That’s the best compromise I came up with. But I think it’s a real long shot.

I also don’t want to slap him in the face with the Bible. That’s going to turn him off religion altogether. It did for me.
 
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Do you think he is indecisive? You can give someone all the advice in the world but if they're not willing to take it or if they can't make a decision then there's not a whole lot you can do.

I can't remember where I heard this--I'm pretty sure it was from the Catholic philosopher Edward Feser--but a big difference between certain strains of Protestantism and the Catholic Church is the Prot. focus on worldly prosperity (i.e. "the Protestant work ethic") vs the Catholic focus on preparing your soul for the next life. Looking at life that way--focusing on your soul instead of your current situation on Earth--has been helping me a lot in dealing with things like drug cravings and lingering vestiges of mental illness, which in turn has been improving my situation in this world.

Get yourself right with God and the rest should follow. Yeah its another maxim, but at least its been working for me. Take it for what you will and pass it on to your friend. I know you don't want to "slap him in the face with the Bible," but this is a Christian forum after all and so most of the advice here is going to somehow involve Christ.
 
I don’t think he’s indecisive. He has already relocated 3 times to find work. He’s willing to cut grass and lift furniture. His last job was standing on his feet for 12 hours doing a non OSHA compliant job with Vietnamese immigrants. When he couldn’t physically and emotionally do it anymore his “family” immediately sounded off on him for being an ungrateful entitled and lazy white man then told him to pack his shit and get out.

He has applied for hundreds of jobs. He’s gone through several rounds of interviews with companies. Many will make him jump through as many as 16 call backs. Then go with someone else. These jobs are both in his area and all over the country. He’s definitely trying.

At this point I’m trying to keep him from living in his car. I made that mistake thinking I was strong and could endure. Years later I was still stuck in that position. It’s really hard to be a professional doing that.
 
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While there's a certain logic to how Christianity inverts the typical relationship between the strong and the weak, it's also easily tortured logic. There's nothing wrong about being strong, and there is no inherent virtue in being weak. In fact, I would say that SJWism takes this inversion to an extreme, which is why you have the progressive stack with the "weakest" being on top. But the fact that our Satanic enemies use this kind of moral reasoning should alert us that this is maybe not how it really should work...

Rather, the biblical position is simply, to him who is given more, more is expected. The strong has a responsibility to protect the weak, not out of any virtue signaling, but because the weak either cannot help being weak or has the capability to learn from the strong and use the strong's example as a foundation for becoming strong. The former is charity, good and proper charity, because it is patterned after how the Lord, the strongest being of them all, cares for us weak, finite, frail beings and the latter is mentorship.

I think you put it best when you say that you could be an example to this young RvFer of what not to do. You've been there, you've struggled on the same journey, but you've done it before him, and you can put up the signposts along the way warning him where not to venture, so that he can stay on the narrow path.

The strong's weakness can be the strength of the weak, if the weak is willing and wise enough to learn from it.

Being strong isn't wrong. Being arrogant about being strong is wrong.

Likewise,

Being weak isn't inherently right. Being self-victimizing or wallowing in self-pity about it is wrong.

Agreed. SJWism is a heresy that bears a twisted similarity to Christianity in making a Virtue of Humility and the statement by our Lord that the Meek shall inherit the Earth. And that he who exalts himself shall be humbled and the humble shall be exalted.

SJWism makes it possible for there to be terms like Ableism and its race to the bottom in terms of making virtue of weakness/disability in itself and how the Strong shall be cast down. For in its twisted satanic logic in developing strength one is exalting oneself and such a thing must be cast down because that is arrogance.

What Nietzche decried has a grain of truth. What he calls "Slave Morality" in what he sees as the celebration of the downtrodden and the weak is a predecessor to its modern SJWism.

1 Corinthians 1:27, KJV: "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;"

SJWism takes this and perverts this. And while he is wrong in many ways obviously. This is one of the ways a broken clock is right twice a day.
 
Usually when I see people saying be strong, endure, don’t be weak, etc. they are living well and have had significant advantages; never really having to overcome a position of weakness or true disadvantage.

If they had they’d realize there are a lot of things in ones life that can’t be changed and can only be accepted and lived with.

The main question is: is it worth living with such problems in the USA? Or cutting your losses and moving on in a more cooperative and less competitive environment—at least for awhile.

I think it’s probably better for him to do the latter. But it’s not my direct experience. Though others on this board have done it and said it was the best decision they ever made.
 
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I don’t think he’s indecisive. He has already relocated 3 times to find work. He’s willing to cut grass and lift furniture. His last job was standing on his feet for 12 hours doing a non OSHA compliant job with Vietnamese immigrants. When he couldn’t physically and emotionally do it anymore his “family” immediately sounded off on him for being an ungrateful entitled and lazy white man then told him to pack his shit and get out.

He has applied for hundreds of jobs. He’s gone through several rounds of interviews with companies. Many will make him jump through as many as 16 call backs. Then go with someone else. These jobs are both in his area and all over the country. He’s definitely trying.

At this point I’m trying to keep him from living in his car. I made that mistake thinking I was strong and could endure. Years later I was still stuck in that position. It’s really hard to be a professional doing that.

So, that leads me to believe that there's something else going on beyond what he's telling you.

Here's another example from personal experience. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of companies in the US that regularly hire people with criminal records. If nobody in the US hired people with criminal records or spotty work history the economy would implode overnight. I worked for several years for a background screening company that serviced major multinational corporations, some of our clients had contracts with requirements that they requested where we wouldn't notify them of convictions less serious than the worst felonies. We worked with one big nightclub operator who knowingly hired "escorts" and ex-strippers who previously worked for cash under the table but were looking to go on the straight and narrow. We had one well-known hardware store chain whose applicant base was roughly just under 30% sex offenders because they knew that company would hire them. Plenty of companies will intentionally hire felons because they get tax breaks for doing so! I've had plenty of companies running checks on people who they knew just got out of prison for attempted murder (no joke).

There are hundreds of thousands of people all over the US with really severe records (attempted murder, 2nd degree murder, rape, assault w/ a deadly weapon, etc.) who can still get something. Ok maybe its not 100% OSHA compliant (cry me a river) or the highest paying job in the world, but has he ever considered that you can support yourself and have some personal dignity even if you're not a professional? Or has he considered that if he's not getting anything then something is better than nothing? There's more to life than being a professional full time Silicon Valley gay dating app coder.

Was your protege in prison for human trafficking or murder or international drug smuggling?

Has your friend talked to a temp agency like Aerotek or AppleOne? A lot of completely reputable companies use agencies as recruiting services. Those agencies have a lot of experience in matching up candidates with jobs that suit their records, experience, and skill set. Here's some advice. He should look up all the temp agencies in his locale and look at the job listings on their websites. Different agencies will specialize in different areas, some specialize in office work, some in skilled manufacturing, some in unskilled labor, some in a mix of everything, etc. He should then set up appointments with all the agencies that advertise jobs which even remotely fit his experience and skill set, and they will work to find him something. These agencies make their money by matching people with jobs and they all know full well that people will sign on with multiple agencies simultaneously. Yeah he might not enjoy the prestige of being a professional full time Silicon Valley gay dating app coder but at least he will develop a work history which will lead to something better down the line.
 
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Yes he worked for the Sinaloa cartel here in Mexico. No conviction though. My boys might do a little time but always beat the rap!

Seriously, I’ll suggest he do the recruiter thing if he hasn’t already. One main problem was not living within commuting distance of a major metro area. That’s why he relocated but those jobs and living situations didn’t workout.
 
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Yes he worked for the Sinaloa cartel here in Mexico. No conviction though. My boys might do a little time but always beat the rap!

I’ll suggest he do the recruiter thing if he hasn’t already. One main problem was not living within commuting distance of a major metro area. That’s why he relocated but those jobs and living situations didn’t workout.

Tell him not to put the Sinaloa Cartel on his resume! I live in a very small city in the middle of a rural area. I was looking at job postings recently, a local company listed as one of their requirements "must be able to handle animal gore." It was a local slaughterhouse. One of the benefits they listed was manufacturer's coupons for their products that you could use at the local supermarkets and WalMarts. $3.00 off pork tenderloins is nothing to sneeze at!
 
Yes he worked for the Sinaloa cartel here in Mexico. No conviction though. My boys might do a little time but always beat the rap!

Seriously, I’ll suggest he do the recruiter thing if he hasn’t already. One main problem was not living within commuting distance of a major metro area. That’s why he relocated but those jobs and living situations didn’t workout.

Cartels and Gangs are de facto their own rulers and whoever falls under their sway falls under their rule. Its a challenge to Government Authority by their existence unless they submit also.
 

Grow Bag

Woodpecker
One should train the body in a way to be able to handle pain and suffering, in a way that makes your soul stronger. A weak and frail body may be high in spirit, but that is not so common these days because there are so many distractions and temptations all around us, and those without a code of rigidity to keep out the bad sin (lust, gluttony, pride, wrathful attitudes, and sexual deviance primarily) will suffer and descend into sin without a doubt. I have noticed it is easier to resist if you are strong in body that work on for specific reasons. Bodybuilders are some of the most homosexual and deviant people out there, but I have met a few who claim to be Christian. I would never call myself a bodybuilder, but one who strengthens his physical body to assist in withstanding the agonies levied against our souls in these times.

Do not compromise yourself on any front if you can. None of us are real mentors, we can only take our own individual and unique experiences and relate them to others in the hopes that someone makes a connection and learns from our mistakes.
There was a time when I used to aspire to be more like Schwarzennger. By coincidence, not design, when I lived in London I even worked out at the first gym he joined in London. At some point, though, I stopped that aspiration and was happy to be toned and strong enough for my frame. These days I don't understand continuous bulking up. It's vainglorious, has no practicality and is not sustainable in these times. Better to simply aim to get strong.
 
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