Bench Press

[Hades]

If you don't want to be a huge fatass I can't blame you. I've been trying to cut since my bulking diet for the last month and it's going somewhat poorly. Clean food is expensive and sometimes hard to come by.

Personally my route with the bench press would be one round of wave cycling. Drop that bastard down 20-30%, beg/steal/borrow some partial plates from Coach, and do 3-5 reps and 2 sets of flat bench (make sure to deload ~10% for the second set). Do this five times weekly, make sure to never exhaust yourself, and add 5-10 pounds every week. Don't miss a workout.

You could add a pound or three every workout, but that might be too much of a pain.

If you have to warm up, do a few pushups. You don't want to strain your CNS too hard though.

Don't be surprised when your one-rep max goes up 10-20% after six weeks or so (at the same body weight), when you've been jerking off at the same weight for months previous. I was shocked to hell when I did this for the deadlift and it worked. Man was not made to lift heavy all of the time.

Lift until you plateau, do a new PR, then deload again and start over at a lower weight. You can do this indefinitely though your future gains will probably be a little smaller.
Check out Pavel's "Power to the People" for more information.

Also, here is a pretty good article explaining it.
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2011/03/17/pavel-deadlift-program/

 

[rhodey]

velkrum - What's your take on the thumbless grip for the bench press?

It's similar to using a thick bar when benching. Some guys find the grip to be more comfortable and places greater emphasis on shoulders and chest. Guys with short arms have the most to benefit from a thumbless grip (greater chest fiber recruitment without the limiting aspect of grip strength).

I personally don't recommend them for guys with long arms or for max lifting.

If you are using it for lighter weight and high reps I think it's a welcomed variation, just be aware that there is a risk of the bar slipping out of your hands.

But decline bench press sucks because of the short range of motion. The barbell starts at your bellybutton and ends at your sternum. You can't go lower

Actually, the short range of motion is why the decline bench press is the BEST form of benching. Lowering the bar past your sternum puts negative stress on your shoulders. You hit a few extra fibers in your chest but you risk damaging your rotator muscles.

Decline may not create that Hyperextension that hits the muscle at its weakest point but it allows you to pile tons of weight on the chest at its sturdiest and safest position.

Incline bench is the most useless of pressing movements when it comes to chest development. Flat benching is not very optimal since the strongest function of the pec major is pulling the arm downwards not horizontally extending the hands.

I have long arms and find that thumb-less grip tracks better for me. It's more dangerous no doubt but I bench in a cage, so I'm mostly covered.

IMO when it comes to benching I have ultimately discovered that bringing my grip width IN is what helped me. It allows me to have move power off the bottom of the lift, I also found it much easier on the joints.

I have to disagree with you about incline bench as i feel it is one of the best chest exercises for chest development. IMO nothing beats Dumbbell incline benches for getting that nice squared off looked to your chest. I found that to much emphasis on dips and declines give me that saggy tit look ....not a good look!

But dips are great I would just make sure to balance them with other Pec exercises.

 

[velkrum]

1. I have long arms and find that thumb-less grip tracks better for me.
   
2. IMO when it comes to benching I have ultimately discovered that bringing my grip width IN is what helped me. It allows me to have move power off the bottom of the lift, I also found it much easier on the joints.
   
3. I have to disagree with you about incline bench as i feel it is one of the best chest exercises for chest development. IMO nothing beats Dumbbell incline benches for getting that nice squared off looked to your chest. I found that to much emphasis on dips and declines give me that saggy tit look ....not a good look!
   
4. But dips are great I would just make sure to balance them with other Pec exercises.

1. If it works, it works. (I just don't recommend it as your main technique for pressing)
   
2. Yep, this is true. The longer the arms, the closer (more in line with the shoulder) the grip, the stronger the pressing power. At some point in time if you only use this grip your chest development will become impaired. Eventually you will need to learn how to bench with a wider grip and lighter weight to develop the outer edges of the pec.
   
3. Incline DB Bench press is great but its supplemental not primary. No one builds a great chest with one exercise (and one type of grip width). There are exercises that are better than others and incline pressing is not at the top of the list (but they are on the list).
   
4. exactly, variety is the key for chest development

 

[rhodey]

At some point in time if you only use this grip your chest development will become impaired. Eventually you will need to learn how to bench with a wider grip and lighter weight to develop the outer edges of the pec.

That hasn't been may experience at all. In fact, there are professional
powerlifters (like K.K.) with long limbs that bench this way and their chest development isn't lacking at all.





One has to factor in your individual proportions when it comes to certain lifts.

In my experience wide grip benches work well with short arm lifters but they place long armed lifters at a leverage disadvantage because it's much more difficult for us to generate any power from the bottom of the movement. Once I moved my grip in , my bench shot up and as a result so did my chest development. I will never go back to wide grip benches. If I want to work my outer pecs I just do dips.

[*]Incline DB Bench press is great but its supplemental not primary. No one builds a great chest with one exercise (and one type of grip width). There are exercises that are better than others and incline pressing is not at the top of the list (but they are on the list).

I feel that for pec stimulation Dumbbell incline presses are 2nd to none. But that might be due to my specific proportions.... That doesn't mean that I recommend them as the ONLY worthwhile chest exercise, however from a functional perspective I feel that they target the pec muscles more directly through a longer range of motion better than any other chest exercise.

Now mind you I also bench with a barbell , because (as you mentioned) you need some amount of variety and Barbell benches are great for overall upper body mass and power. Declines suck for me , never got anything out of doing them and they always felt awkward.

Dips are also great but I need to be careful with those for the reason I mentioned earlier.

But IMO you don't need all that much variety. In fact I recommend anyone pick 1-3 "money maker" exercises for a body part that works for them and concentrate on getting ridiculously strong in those movements.

You can muck around with the rep ranges, grip width and rest intervals and that's all the variety most any non professional body builder would need IMO.

Again I'll say The key for chest development (or any other type of development), for a non juiced individual is to simply spend the time to get strong in the KEY compound movements.

Switching in too many exercises every other month(ala Flex magazine routines) without building a base is counter productive to progression IMO.

My key movements for chest are,:Incline/flat Dumbbell presses, Incline/flat Barbell bench presses and dips. Those movements are what produced the most results for me through 16 years of lifting.

 

[metalhaze]

"Incline bench is the most useless of pressing movements when it comes to chest development. Flat benching is not very optimal since the strongest function of the pec major is pulling the arm downwards not horizontally extending the hands."


According to Bill Starr Weightlifter and powerlifter guru, the incline press is far superior to the benchpress.

excessive use of the benchpress can lead to shoulder problems.
The standing press is also a great exercise.

 

[Hades]

If you take two identical athletes (with same food program) and set them at eight weeks of either

-A standard diet of dumb bells, barbell type presses, and 5x5 stronglifts type shit
or
-A gymnastic workout on rings with a coach

The second guy will exhibit hpertrophy/strength increases that are incomparably greater than the first.

Most biologists agree that an ape is ~3 times more swole than a human being at the same body weight, and they basically do it through gymnastics. You all should give more credit to the humble suspension trainer or gymnastic ring.

 

[Divorco]

Most biologists agree that an ape is ~3 times more swole than a human ... through gymnastics.

Do any biologists think humans are stronger than apes?

Do you want to compare training 3-year-old babies (humans) on rings with training 3-year-old chimps on bench press?

 

[Moma]

If you take two identical athletes (with same food program) and set them at eight weeks of either

-A standard diet of dumb bells, barbell type presses, and 5x5 stronglifts type shit
or
-A gymnastic workout on rings with a coach

The second guy will exhibit hpertrophy/strength increases that are incomparably greater than the first.

Most biologists agree that an ape is ~3 times more swole than a human being at the same body weight, and they basically do it through gymnastics. You all should give more credit to the humble suspension trainer or gymnastic ring.

The reason apes are stronger than humans is because of their genetics. If you raise a human amongst apes, his or her ass will still get tanned by the laziest simian.

Using their training lifestyle as rationale to why they are stronger is not the right way.

 

[WesternCancer]

I'm having trouble with the bench (and the overhead press) too.

Stats:
6'2, 220lb
Squat: 315x1
Dead: 315x5
Row: 235x1
OHP: 125x3
Bench: 115x5 (I shit you not, I swear I've caught bros chuckling until they see me set up in the squat rack the next day). I can close grip BP 135 on a good day.

I've read the info in this thread and have applied most of it. The weight I was at was easier, but I moved up 5lbs and i was barely to fully rep it out. I also have a lot of scar tissue in my upper chest and the front part of my shoulder was numb (and still is sometimes) after that injury. Does scar tissue and possibly nerve damage affect this at all?

My training goal is to compete in a powerlifting meet with respectable numbers sometime next year, obviously having a good bench is part of that goal. Should I just keep playing around with my setup/form until I find something that works or what?

 

[Magic Bullets]

I have an article from Australian Men's Fitness which I reckon is a pretty good benchmark for fitness. Within a year of training you should be able to bench at least 80kg, 1-3 years 90-100kg, 3 or more years 110-120 kg. It also gives recommendations for pullups, deadlifts, squats, pressups and 1 mile run.

 

[Hades]

Alrighty guys, I apologize for the ape comment. Did some reading and found that they have some kind of fucked up muscle recruitment genes.

OP, have you tried a wave cycle?
Also, this article is good to look at. Your weakness might be a shoulder imbalance, in which case, start overhead pressing. At the very least, try some durational handstands. My ability to bench went up significantly after I could do a 1.5 minute handstand. This took about a month to build up to.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/get_your_press_up

 

[Magic Bullets]

I would be interested in doing durational handstands, can you suggest a good site? My Bench is increasing nicely, I try to increase by a rep each week and am aiming to do 5x10 in a few weeks with 80kg. My goal is not outright mass building as I am just over 11 stone. I feel I can still increase my Bench without taking in excess calories. I would say I train quite well on around 3,000 calories per day or under. I am on my feet walking and riding for around 3-4 hours plus daily. My deadlifts are around 142-145kg, near enough to double my bodyweight for 5x5 without using straps. I do have olympic rings in my home gym, haven't been able to find a good program for using them which has progressions. For pressups I can probably do over 100 on a good day, I just try to be consistant with them and do them regularly. I am also considering adding running for a 1 mile. My only worry is, will it interfere with my strength?

 

[Spike]

"Incline bench is the most useless of pressing movements when it comes to chest development. Flat benching is not very optimal since the strongest function of the pec major is pulling the arm downwards not horizontally extending the hands."


According to Bill Starr Weightlifter and powerlifter guru, the incline press is far superior to the benchpress.

excessive use of the benchpress can lead to shoulder problems.
The standing press is also a great exercise.

I think i will take this advice and start with incline bench pressing from now on instead on flat benching to the max.
My shoulder (below the collarbone) is starting to hurt every time I go for maximum force a few weeks. It's an old injury which is also a bit stress related too. Whenever i'm stressed I start pulling my shoulder a few inches up resulting in constant muscle use and stress. For me it's also a good indicator for when i'm not feeling at ease/insecure about something.

 

[Hades]

I would be interested in doing durational handstands, can you suggest a good site? My Bench is increasing nicely, I try to increase by a rep each week and am aiming to do 5x10 in a few weeks with 80kg. My goal is not outright mass building as I am just over 11 stone. I feel I can still increase my Bench without taking in excess calories. I would say I train quite well on around 3,000 calories per day or under. I am on my feet walking and riding for around 3-4 hours plus daily. My deadlifts are around 142-145kg, near enough to double my bodyweight for 5x5 without using straps. I do have olympic rings in my home gym, haven't been able to find a good program for using them which has progressions. For pressups I can probably do over 100 on a good day, I just try to be consistant with them and do them regularly. I am also considering adding running for a 1 mile. My only worry is, will it interfere with my strength?

Check out beastskills.com or google "al kavadlo". Both of those guys are big on handstands. Both of those guys have good advice on olympic ring progressions as well (front and back levers, muscle ups).

At 11 stone (~150 pounds I think), a 300 pound deadlift is impressive.

Running 1 mile isn't bad in itself but doesn't fit in a strength program. Doing cardio for long periods of time (2 miles or more) is a good way to burn muscle. If you do a lot of jogging or running, you'll find your deadlift numbers drop.
For not interfering with strength work, long walks and short sprints are a better idea.

 

[Lothario]

Alright Guys here is my progress in 6 weeks since I posted this. I weigh 170 # now

1. Bench press 185 x 3 ( 1st set 155 x 5, 2nd set 175 x 5, 3rd set 185 X 3)

2. Squat 275 X 5

3. Deadlift 275 X 5

Thanks to all the members for Input, My Benchpress has gone up atleast 10 pounds from 175 to 185, slow progress ? Here is what I a have been differently.

Not counting my calories as strictly and have gained about 10 pounds in bodyweight. (All going to my belly but I look a little big on the upper body as well)

went up on Deadlifts and Squats

using spotters as much as I can

Eating more protein.atleat 200 gm/day if not more.

Slowy increased reps first then weight, continuing with creatine and fish oil.

I will keep up the hard work with Goal of crossing 200 # and also work on some of the other suggestions being posted.

 

[Moma]

Heres how I've increased my bench from 185 to 300 lbs. It took me about 3 years.

On bench day, do flat bench with a barbell, flat bench with dumbbells, incline bench with a barbell, and incline bench with dumbbells. Usually with something in between, like light biceps exercises, or pullups, nothing chest related though.

Always be increasing at least 1 of the 4 chest exercises. You might plateau on flat bench with a barbell, but maybe incline bench with dumbbells will be increasing. Once that plateaus, go back to flat bench and try to increase that by 5 lbs or so. Soon all 4 of your lifts will be increasing steadily. You don't need to increase anything by alot, for example, maybe I moved up from 75lb dumbells to 80 lb dumbells for flat bench, and the next week I move up flat bench with a barbell 225 lbs to 230 lbs.

I'm sure there are other ways and better ways, but this is how I did it.

And I never had more than a 40 gram protein shake, but I was taking creatine.

How much protein were you taking daily? How long were you on creatine for? Did you load? Did you cycle the creatine?

 

[lurker]

I did a Smolov routine for squats and a Smolov Jr. for bench recently. Both 1RMs had been plateaued. I added 20 lbs to my bench and at least 40 to my squat in 4 weeks each.

 

[Jazzman92]

I just recently benched 225 lbs x 3 reps. About a month ago I was only doing 185 lb x 2 reps.

The first thing I realized with my bench press was that my shoulders were giving out before i finished my set so i began working out my shoulders more so they felt more stable as I did my bench press.

One chest workout routine that was very effective for me in order to increase my bench press in short period of time was beginning with heavier weight and lower rep ranges (but without going to failure because I didn't have a spotter) and finishing with high volume but a lower amount of weight.

The way I did it was like this:

I began by warming up with 135lbs, 10 reps for 2 sets on the flat bench with the barbell.
Next I did 3 reps x 6 sets with a heavy but manageable weight with the barbell.
Then I went to incline bench and did 5x5 with 135 lbs barbell.
after this I did dumbbell press on the flat bench 10 reps for 3 sets but with only 55 lb dumbells and I also did a superset with 10 reps of flys with 25 lb dumbells and 5 push ups after each set.
I finished by doing 3 sets of dips, each set until failure.

Another thing that has improved the quality of my workouts in the gym is taking BCAAs. I take 10 g right before I begin my workout and I feel like I have more energy when I take them.

 

[Major Tom]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned working more on back development. In my opinion, that is one of the biggest things you can do to make a quick improvements in your pressing strength, whether it's overhead or lying down on a bench. Any sort of upper body pressing involves using the muscles of the back (latissimus dorsi, rhomboids, traps) as a platform from which to press. Having strong lats helps keep your upper body tight and anchored to the bench, and to help create a nice "groove" in which to lower the bar and then back up. OP should try adding some more pulling work into his program. Exercises like dumbbell rows (or better yet Kroc Rows), chins, shrugs, and minor accessory work like face pulls and band pull aparts (great for supersetting with your pushing exercises) will work wonders if you do them consistently. Don't think of the bench press solely in terms of the prime movers (chest, triceps, anterior deltoids) but be mindful of the other muscles that create the stability and optimal position from which to press. It's also great for shoulder health as well.

 

[CaP7]

Work on your grip. Hold the bar as tight as you can and act like you're knocking on a door. Better grip engages more muscles through the lift, thus making you stronger. Work on grip.

Stretch your specs. Stand in a corner, arms out, body in. After a chest workout, do two reps of holding dumbbells in the lowest position on the bench. 60 seconds each. Stretched specs allow more room for growth.

Activate rombiods. This helps pull your shoulders back. Better posture, more strength.