Best Christian Country to expat to by/before 2024

Goni

Woodpecker
There is a lot of information in the previous posting meant to discourage people from considering a move to CE/EE/Balkans. I'm going to address some of it below:


So far, I am not aware of any PR or temporary residency permits that require proof of vaccination. Of course, this will likely happen in the future, however, its just as likely (probably more so) that Western countries will mandate that all citizens take the vaccine. In that case, you're facing the needle either way (unless bugging out, in either place). I'm not onboard with the vaccine now, but after a few years will give it a second look. As it is, it wouldn't be hard to get some official-looking but bogus documentation stating that you've been vaccinated to pass since the document, along with the rest of the residency application, is just going to get thrown in some random, unorganized file in the back of some dumpy government office (and it will, possibly after the brief examination of a low-level, chain-smoking bureaucrat).

Your information on Montenegro is incorrect. 5 years of temporary residency can lead to PR. Residency can also be acquired by forming a shelf company (this is true for Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria*, and a host of other CE/EE countries) which can, in many cases, ultimately lead to PR.

If you're American, Albania essentially lets you stay indefinitely (thanks, Kosovo!) without a visa. If you want something more definite, your first permit is valid for five years.

Healthcare is normally a prerequisite to attaining residency. Basic plans in Balkan countries might set you back $30 USD a month for the basic plan (those big ballers have to pay closer to $50 for the premium plans!), although I've personally receive medical care in the region without having to pay (I tried to after receiving a series of examinations, tests, and IVs, but they said it would be too much trouble for them. Of course, your mileage may vary). If you're worried about the level or quality of coverage, purchasing insurance through international providers for an additional nominal fee (which, combined with the country-specific plan would be exponentially less than what you'd pay in the US) is an option.





I don't want to downplay any personal experiences you've had since we are all leading different lives.

However, all of the assimilation stuff you mention here could easily be apply to justify NOT moving within one's own country. Should the guy from the Northeast not move to the South because he has a "NeY Yorker" accent and people will never treat the Yankee like all of the other good ole' boys? Should the guy from 'Bama stay out of Boston because he's just some dumb redneck who talks too slow to everyone in the big city?

Guess people are just stuck!

I'm still waiting for the discrimination based on lack of citizenship to kick in. If anything, I have experienced more advantageous outcomes in situations as a result of authority figures (no, I'm not doing anything illegal) initially assuming I'm a local (and taking a stern tone with me) before smiling widely and asking me "where in USA" I'm from before sending me on my merry way (back in the US, the cops would at least check my ID or something). Do I get taken advantage of by some taxi drivers and those in similar positions to scam me/overcharge me? Of course. Do I still come out ahead by not getting scammed to the tune of ridiculously high COL, tax on worldwide income (FEIE, everyone), astronomical health insurance rates, car insurance rates, etc. I think so (one of my lawyer friends in the region does research or small jobs for me every once in a while. I have to sneak money in his car or folder because he refuses to let me pay him for such services. Lawyers in America would charge hundreds an hour just for "thinking" about my cases).

I'm sure the day will come where there is some negative ramification for not being a local. Looking at Biden's first 100 days agenda, I think such a ramification would be more a certainty back "home", though.



Why are we talking about the "average" person in the US here who has no interest in leaving America, doesn't have a passport, and can't find Florida on the map? Anyone thinking about moving to one of the above-mentioned countries shouldn't really consider it if they're in such a dire situation where they couldn't even put up a few grand to set up a shelf company (for residency purposes). However, they don't have to have "wealth" or a job; a decent amount of savings (which could be put aside in a year or two of cutting costs, even on a low US salary) and a desire to learn how to make money online will do just fine.
In FYROM , Albania, Montenegro and Serbia as an American you have a 6 month free visa.

In Serbia is 3 months + 3 others easily while in Albania is 6 months + 6 others months easily ( not indefinitely). The same in Kosovo.

In Montenegro and Bulgaria you get citizenship if you invest 200,000 euros.

However residency permits are easy.

Residency permits are easier in Serbia than in Albania but Albania has more laid back curfew, no forced vaccination and no tests entry.

The same with FYROM Macedonia.
 

JohnKreese

Pelican
In FYROM , Albania, Montenegro and Serbia as an American you have a 6 month free visa.

In Serbia is 3 months + 3 others easily while in Albania is 6 months + 6 others months easily ( not indefinitely). The same in Kosovo.

In Montenegro and Bulgaria you get citizenship if you invest 200,000 euros.

However residency permits are easy.

Residency permits are easier in Serbia than in Albania but Albania has more laid back curfew, no forced vaccination and no tests entry.

The same with FYROM Macedonia.
One of the main points of this thread is to provide accurate information for men looking to move to new, preferably Christian country in the near future. As such, I need to address some of the information above.

I don't know anything about Macedonia or Kosovo so I'll defer to you here.

I don't know where you're getting the 6-month figure from for Albania, Montenegro, and Serbia. In Albania, Americans get a year visa-free. Serbia and Montenegro is 90 days:


Maybe you're talking about formal visa extensions? If so, again, I defer to your knowledge on the topic. However, I don't know why someone would go through that process at the present time. Just cross an adjacent border before the time is up, get a coffee, and come back. Restart the clock.

Citizenship by investment in Montenegro and Bulgaria are much more expensive than 200k. In Montenegro, it STARTS at 350k (euros) + lawyer fees (100k government "donation" plus 250k investment in a real estate project in dumpy northern projects) and rises to over 550k (100k "donation" plus 450k investment in ridiculously overpriced real estate on the coast).

Bulgarian CBI requires at least 500k (euros) investment in government ETFs or in a domestic company.

It is easy to get a residence permit in any of the above-mentioned countries with formation of a shelf company (or purchase of cheap real estate in Albania, Montenegro, and Serbia) and Serbia isn't requiring tests of those coming from adjacent Balkan countries (Albania, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Montenegro).

 

JohnKreese

Pelican
I could criticise a lot here... I am focussing on the above two sections. Moving within one's own country is not in any way comparable to being a foreigner inside of EE/elsewhere at all, where you do get discriminated against even if you're white looking. I have seen it with so many friends. There is also the language barrier as well as culture. Having lived stateside you can't compare movement within the US to moving outside of it.

Also:

The above article is about how 40% of US citizens dont even have 400$ to spare. Not everyone who is poor is worthless, they sometimes have had their parents/themselves screwed by the system owned by the banker, hence WHY they are poor. Putting up a shelf company for residency purposes isn't as easy as you think, depending on the country, and sometimes not at all.

I do agree people should not be discouraged from leaving the States/Anglosphere/etc and moving elsewhere. I think more people would if they could. But you do need money to check different places out before deciding a country to settle in and at least some savings, which some worthwhile people dont have. There are many other difficulties too. Its just a reality for many people. We already live in a period of economic 'elitism' where only a few people can afford to do this, outside of the psychopathic 'elites', and the countries the remainder would have a choice of moving to aren't always that great, Ive known many expats, it gets harder year by year and its a lifestyle for a guy who is older who has a lot of savings and not younger guys necessarily who want to move and are stating out in life/older guys who have been screwed by the 'system'/etc. You're just speaking of your own limited personal experience and then generalising that all people are in positions like yourself, which is not true. That is not your fault or responsibility, but it is just the viewpoint/advice you offer is limited to a very small group of people and there are many worthwhile people out there outside of that group.

You obviously didn't read any of my previous postings and completely missed the point of my introduction of intra-US migration into the discussion. I addressed language and cultural awareness before. Yeah, you'll have an accent and will never "be" them, but this constant discrimination and mistreatment schtick is starting to get a bit out of hand. What is everyone doing in these countries to a. draw attention to themselves and invite such treatment b. actually provoke such treatment?

If you want to start a thread called "best way to leave your country with less than $400 to your name (because you're not worthless, the system screwed you, and shelf countries are too hard!)" feel free to do so. I would be happy to write about the (less-than-ideal, given present and likely future geo-political trends) possibility of moving to Mexico/Latin America (which can be cheaper and certainly easier for most than CE/EE/Balkans). Granted I'm not of the "psychopathic elite" that you mention above and I actually moved abroad as a relatively young guy with relatively modest savings so I don't know if I'd be qualified to write on the topic.
 

JohnKreese

Pelican
I think these new tax rates are going to encourage a-lot of men who have assets and are entrepreneurial to leave the USA. I posted it in the 2020 election thread but I will post it again. The crackdown is here. I'm very conflicted at the moment on what to do in terms of relocating goes. I live in New York and am looking to go overseas to Europe I have in mind Austria, Switzerland, Hungary, Romania, Spain Or Italy. I keep hearing mixed things about them. I'm waiting for this whole thing to die down a little bit so I can travel relatively normal again, but I think this notion is becoming more and more delusional as it appears to be doing the exact opposite of dying down but whatever. Is there anyone else who is facing a similar problem and has ambition to leave the country?

Part of me feels like I should just relocate somewhere in the states and take up my cross. The problem with this Is that I like many other men have been so disgusted with America and am becoming even more increasingly so and thus arriving at the conclusion that the only option is to leave here for somewhere else.
The Biden tax rates you posted in your reply are definitely gonna hurt and remember that even if you leave, as an American, you're on the hook for a lot of it.

Foreign Earned Income Exclusion helps with income taxes (to a point), but capital gains are taxed just the same wherever you are.

There are some good business plays in the Balkans in terms of corporate taxes (10 percent Bulgaria, 9 percent Montenegro, 9 percent Hungary although there are additional mandatory social security and retirement healthcare taxes as well) if you're looking to save money running a company somewhere else (although if this is the play, you may as well do somewhere like Panama where you can incorporate a company, do business anywhere else, and pay nothing in corporate tax).
 
The Biden tax rates you posted in your reply are definitely gonna hurt and remember that even if you leave, as an American, you're on the hook for a lot of it.

Foreign Earned Income Exclusion helps with income taxes (to a point), but capital gains are taxed just the same wherever you are.

There are some good business plays in the Balkans in terms of corporate taxes (10 percent Bulgaria, 9 percent Montenegro, 9 percent Hungary although there are additional mandatory social security and retirement healthcare taxes as well) if you're looking to save money running a company somewhere else (although if this is the play, you may as well do somewhere like Panama where you can incorporate a company, do business anywhere else, and pay nothing in corporate tax).

You think renouncing your citizenship is a prudent choice? I've known some people who have done it, that Nomad Capitalist guy has done it too.
 

aynrus

Kingfisher
Oh where are those countries where there's no discrimination of foreign-sounding persons....in the land of fantasy unicorns. They don't exist.
You will NEVER be one of them, remember that.
 

aynrus

Kingfisher
There is a lot of information in the previous posting meant to discourage people from considering a move to CE/EE/Balkans. I'm going to address some of it below:


So far, I am not aware of any PR or temporary residency permits that require proof of vaccination. Of course, this will likely happen in the future, however, its just as likely (probably more so) that Western countries will mandate that all citizens take the vaccine. In that case, you're facing the needle either way (unless bugging out, in either place). I'm not onboard with the vaccine now, but after a few years will give it a second look. As it is, it wouldn't be hard to get some official-looking but bogus documentation stating that you've been vaccinated to pass since the document, along with the rest of the residency application, is just going to get thrown in some random, unorganized file in the back of some dumpy government office (and it will, possibly after the brief examination of a low-level, chain-smoking bureaucrat).

Your information on Montenegro is incorrect. 5 years of temporary residency can lead to PR. Residency can also be acquired by forming a shelf company (this is true for Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria*, and a host of other CE/EE countries) which can, in many cases, ultimately lead to PR.

If you're American, Albania essentially lets you stay indefinitely (thanks, Kosovo!) without a visa. If you want something more definite, your first permit is valid for five years.

Healthcare is normally a prerequisite to attaining residency. Basic plans in Balkan countries might set you back $30 USD a month for the basic plan (those big ballers have to pay closer to $50 for the premium plans!), although I've personally receive medical care in the region without having to pay (I tried to after receiving a series of examinations, tests, and IVs, but they said it would be too much trouble for them. Of course, your mileage may vary). If you're worried about the level or quality of coverage, purchasing insurance through international providers for an additional nominal fee (which, combined with the country-specific plan would be exponentially less than what you'd pay in the US) is an option.





I don't want to downplay any personal experiences you've had since we are all leading different lives.

However, all of the assimilation stuff you mention here could easily be apply to justify NOT moving within one's own country. Should the guy from the Northeast not move to the South because he has a "NeY Yorker" accent and people will never treat the Yankee like all of the other good ole' boys? Should the guy from 'Bama stay out of Boston because he's just some dumb redneck who talks too slow to everyone in the big city?

Guess people are just stuck!

I'm still waiting for the discrimination based on lack of citizenship to kick in. If anything, I have experienced more advantageous outcomes in situations as a result of authority figures (no, I'm not doing anything illegal) initially assuming I'm a local (and taking a stern tone with me) before smiling widely and asking me "where in USA" I'm from before sending me on my merry way (back in the US, the cops would at least check my ID or something). Do I get taken advantage of by some taxi drivers and those in similar positions to scam me/overcharge me? Of course. Do I still come out ahead by not getting scammed to the tune of ridiculously high COL, tax on worldwide income (FEIE, everyone), astronomical health insurance rates, car insurance rates, etc. I think so (one of my lawyer friends in the region does research or small jobs for me every once in a while. I have to sneak money in his car or folder because he refuses to let me pay him for such services. Lawyers in America would charge hundreds an hour just for "thinking" about my cases).

I'm sure the day will come where there is some negative ramification for not being a local. Looking at Biden's first 100 days agenda, I think such a ramification would be more a certainty back "home", though.



Why are we talking about the "average" person in the US here who has no interest in leaving America, doesn't have a passport, and can't find Florida on the map? Anyone thinking about moving to one of the above-mentioned countries shouldn't really consider it if they're in such a dire situation where they couldn't even put up a few grand to set up a shelf company (for residency purposes). However, they don't have to have "wealth" or a job; a decent amount of savings (which could be put aside in a year or two of cutting costs, even on a low US salary) and a desire to learn how to make money online will do just fine.
Yeah...please don't downplay.
I don't know what wonderland you live in...you're exaclty trying to downplay others' experiences.
The thing is my experience is obviously the experience of many.
I stated the facts.
Not going to waste my time debating this, but I know we are having opposite worldviews and definitely won't end up living in the same country.
I guess some people never miss their roots, but I do, also.
No I don't want to be overcharged by taxis and ripped off because I'm a foreigner, I'd like to speak my native language all the time and be one of the people of my culture, there's nothing that replaces this and there's nothing that ever heals departure from your homeland.
You lost me at "desire to learn to make money online" (average American Joe)...may be that's a message to send to Guatemalan caravans, silly folks they just didn't learn to make money online....the world would have been open wide for them. No, most people in the world can't immigrate to other countries, especially to economic step up like EU, they won't be allowed in. That's the reality, sorry. You grew up in the developed 1st world country, I can tell. Of course you're probably of the privileged kind of ethnicity so you don't get discriminatedin those 2nd/3rd world counries, I get that.

As to Montenegro - their "permanent" residency permit does not lead to citizenship and only lasts 5 years - so I still call it temporary, because it's temporary. One can only leave the country for 1 month a year on that permit, no thanks. And guess what...1 arrest because you had to defend yourself, etc, and no more permits. Wouldn't recommend anyone dealing with that. Living on these glorified temporary visas is a waste of life. Go get a normal residency and then citizenship and live like a human being with some rights. If no, then you're just a nomadic guest there, who can be thrown out any moment.

Anyone who thinks that vaxx won't be required soon to be in and out of these countries, even if temp. 1 year permit doesn't require medical (normally temp. permits do not require them)...good luck, but most will require it just like they required tests. The countries on course to join EU, Serbia, etc, will require the vaxx, 99.99% sure on that one. I guess some think vaxx isn't a big deal and going to take it, well good luck.
 
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aynrus

Kingfisher
I could criticise a lot here... I am focussing on the above two sections. Moving within one's own country is not in any way comparable to being a foreigner inside of EE/elsewhere at all, where you do get discriminated against even if you're white looking. I have seen it with so many friends. There is also the language barrier as well as culture. Having lived stateside you can't compare movement within the US to moving outside of it.

Also:

The above article is about how 40% of US citizens dont even have 400$ to spare. Not everyone who is poor is worthless, they sometimes have had their parents/themselves screwed by the system owned by the banker, hence WHY they are poor. Putting up a shelf company for residency purposes isn't as easy as you think, depending on the country, and sometimes not at all.

I do agree people should not be discouraged from leaving the States/Anglosphere/etc and moving elsewhere. I think more people would if they could. But you do need money to check different places out before deciding a country to settle in and at least some savings, which some worthwhile people dont have. There are many other difficulties too. Its just a reality for many people. We already live in a period of economic 'elitism' where only a few people can afford to do this, outside of the psychopathic 'elites', and the countries the remainder would have a choice of moving to aren't always that great, Ive known many expats, it gets harder year by year and its a lifestyle for a guy who is older who has a lot of savings and not younger guys necessarily who want to move and are stating out in life/older guys who have been screwed by the 'system'/etc.
Well, some people grew up in the 1st world....they have doors open for them everywhere, visas, wilkommen. They got their 1st world money, their whatever right ethnicity that gets them good gringo treatment. They'll never see the other side.
That's exactly where the uncrossable barrier is. It's not possible to understand their thinking and they won't fully understand others views and predicament either.
They won't understand why so many live as illegals in US, EU, South America and even Africa. Why people die trying to get into US. While people struggle for years just to get a visa somewhere.
I knew someone who was murdered over causing someone else to get denied US visa. You can't explain it to these fundamentally 1st world people because they think it's all easy-peasy, because it's easy for them personally.
Anyway, the stress, learning of yet another language, dealing with constant discrimination (apparently some think that being ripped off because of not being a local isn't discrimination, but I disagree), missing home country and what and who was left behind there - just isn't worth it in my opinion, unless one is running from the war.
There's nothing like your homeland, like all the familiar sounds, sights and even smells there... music of your native language, instant connection with your countrymen based on subtle things an outsider will never comprehend. There'll never be a real connection with people overseas no matter how many years are spent there. Those who think there's delude themselves.
Nope, adults don't assimilate. This is a notorious fact and a source of much grief for many locals, as those pesky immigrants are unable to assimilate.
Only children/teens assimilate.
Over decades of life elsewhere, these things become more clear, sometimes it takes over 20 years to really understand them.
Beware that a lot of immigrants/emigrants live in denial of the above, they pretend they don't miss their home country, that all is fine, deny all major problems with relocations, but the truth is very different... they usually will get defensive at any suggestion of something being problematic with overseas relocations, because this might mean admitting wasted years.

And really, does one think the "others" will be so happy if they get lots of gringos living there? Not everywhere. Gringos drive prices up a lot. The more gringos are encouraged to go to these countries, the more pushback will be there eventually. And then you see the dreaded "development" and signs of "progress". Most countries are waking up to the fact that they don't want mass migrations and more doors will be shut soon. Already this virus hoax is a tool to put everyone into their place and control intrepid globe-trotting, among other htings. Hopefully there'll be some cultural revivals instead of globalist gringo-isation and locals being hit with dollar-throwing 1st world people pricing them out. Hey, it happened to many Americans and Canadians on the West coast, revolving door region, only it was Asians who pushed many out.
 
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Easy_C

Peacock
Unfortunately the best long term answer is that you either need to be a capital player (because while countries don’t want to be swarmed they DO want to attract capital and expand the depth of their markets) or be in a specialized skill that’s in high global demand like a doctor or an ERP (enterprise software) expert where any country growing will have business problems you can address. There also appears to be significant mobility for people who have experience in the back office of global banks (everyone on those teams works on international projects that use English as a common denominator language).

Being a doctor in particular is almost like a global passport in some ways. I’ve seen a number of countries that have doctors listed as an “in demand” profession that’s welcome to come in.

Edit; and yes, ethnic component is important. That’s kind of why I’m unhappy about Poland. Most people there assumed I was a local married to a German woman (what we looked like) until I opened my mouth and couldn’t speak the language. Even then for long term integration it helps a lot if you are viewed as part of the ethnicity. Our most effective and best like interpreter in Afghanistan was an American citizen and resident who got along fine because he was ethnically Afghan and spoke the language at a native level of proficiency.
 

srd

Pigeon
If you want to start a thread called "best way to leave your country with less than $400 to your name (because you're not worthless, the system screwed you, and shelf countries are too hard!)" feel free to do so. "
LOL all I need to do is read this statement to know you talk in bad faith. Taking the piss all the time, with nothing real to say on your own behalf; and giving bad advice. I couldn't possibly take anything you say at face value and Im sure you have hebrew blood in you somewhere, despite any 'claims' that you make, lol.
 

JohnKreese

Pelican
You think renouncing your citizenship is a prudent choice? I've known some people who have done it, that Nomad Capitalist guy has done it too.
This is a very personal matter and every person's situation and background would factor into such a decision (as well as their thoughts on future advancements in or problems from the US). Before even considering it, it would be prudent to explore available second passport options (most notably those from ancestry) and the degree to which they grant access to places one would actually want to live in the future ex. if you have Armenian ancestry and can get an Armenian passport it will be a little harder to stay long-term in the EU than if you have Polish ancestry and can get a Polish passport.
 

JohnKreese

Pelican
As to Montenegro - their "permanent" residency permit does not lead to citizenship and only lasts 5 years - so I still call it temporary, because it's temporary. One can only leave the country for 1 month a year on that permit, no thanks. And guess what...1 arrest because you had to defend yourself, etc, and no more permits. Wouldn't recommend anyone dealing with that. Living on these glorified temporary visas is a waste of life. Go get a normal residency and then citizenship and live like a human being with some rights. If no, then you're just a nomadic guest there, who can be thrown out any moment.

in Montenegro, permanent residency can lead to citizenship after 5 years (as a PR). Of course, one's own mileage may vary, but, at worst, the PR status (all of the same rights except voting and passport) can be renewed indefinitely (every 5 years).

In the previously mentioned countries (Bulgaria, Montenegro, Serbia) the temporary residence permit stipulations for company formation (as opposed to via the purchase of real estate) are different and allow much more relaxed time-in-country requirements i.e one can come and go as they please while still maintaining the status. After 3-5 years of this (depending on the country), one is eligible for permanent residency.
 

JohnKreese

Pelican
LOL all I need to do is read this statement to know you talk in bad faith. Taking the piss all the time, with nothing real to say on your own behalf; and giving bad advice. I couldn't possibly take anything you say at face value and Im sure you have hebrew blood in you somewhere, despite any 'claims' that you make, lol.

(((Awoman!)))
 

Goni

Woodpecker
Yeah...please don't downplay.
I don't know what wonderland you live in...you're exaclty trying to downplay others' experiences.
The thing is my experience is obviously the experience of many.
I stated the facts.
Not going to waste my time debating this, but I know we are having opposite worldviews and definitely won't end up living in the same country.
I guess some people never miss their roots, but I do, also.
No I don't want to be overcharged by taxis and ripped off because I'm a foreigner, I'd like to speak my native language all the time and be one of the people of my culture, there's nothing that replaces this and there's nothing that ever heals departure from your homeland.
You lost me at "desire to learn to make money online" (average American Joe)...may be that's a message to send to Guatemalan caravans, silly folks they just didn't learn to make money online....the world would have been open wide for them. No, most people in the world can't immigrate to other countries, especially to economic step up like EU, they won't be allowed in. That's the reality, sorry. You grew up in the developed 1st world country, I can tell. Of course you're probably of the privileged kind of ethnicity so you don't get discriminatedin those 2nd/3rd world counries, I get that.

As to Montenegro - their "permanent" residency permit does not lead to citizenship and only lasts 5 years - so I still call it temporary, because it's temporary. One can only leave the country for 1 month a year on that permit, no thanks. And guess what...1 arrest because you had to defend yourself, etc, and no more permits. Wouldn't recommend anyone dealing with that. Living on these glorified temporary visas is a waste of life. Go get a normal residency and then citizenship and live like a human being with some rights. If no, then you're just a nomadic guest there, who can be thrown out any moment.

Anyone who thinks that vaxx won't be required soon to be in and out of these countries, even if temp. 1 year permit doesn't require medical (normally temp. permits do not require them)...good luck, but most will require it just like they required tests. The countries on course to join EU, Serbia, etc, will require the vaxx, 99.99% sure on that one. I guess some think vaxx isn't a big deal and going to take it, well good luck.
Well if countries like Albanian, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro are not requiring tests to enter, than the possibility to not require vaccines to enter them is very much alike.

But that the EU with require vax for its citizens and for everyone to enter it, that is for sure.

They are.all sheep anyway. Let's hope Hungary won't comply totally.

Btw, if you get permanent residency, you can easily apply to get the passport.
 

Goni

Woodpecker
One of the main points of this thread is to provide accurate information for men looking to move to new, preferably Christian country in the near future. As such, I need to address some of the information above.

I don't know anything about Macedonia or Kosovo so I'll defer to you here.

I don't know where you're getting the 6-month figure from for Albania, Montenegro, and Serbia. In Albania, Americans get a year visa-free. Serbia and Montenegro is 90 days:


Maybe you're talking about formal visa extensions? If so, again, I defer to your knowledge on the topic. However, I don't know why someone would go through that process at the present time. Just cross an adjacent border before the time is up, get a coffee, and come back. Restart the clock.

Citizenship by investment in Montenegro and Bulgaria are much more expensive than 200k. In Montenegro, it STARTS at 350k (euros) + lawyer fees (100k government "donation" plus 250k investment in a real estate project in dumpy northern projects) and rises to over 550k (100k "donation" plus 450k investment in ridiculously overpriced real estate on the coast).

Bulgarian CBI requires at least 500k (euros) investment in government ETFs or in a domestic company.

It is easy to get a residence permit in any of the above-mentioned countries with formation of a shelf company (or purchase of cheap real estate in Albania, Montenegro, and Serbia) and Serbia isn't requiring tests of those coming from adjacent Balkan countries (Albania, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Montenegro).

This is how is officially, but things in the ground differ a bit.

In Serbia as an American you can stay 90 days but can easily go to 180 days and up to one year.

In Albania after 6 months you might be asked to have a residency as an American.

I know people that after investing 200,000 euros initially got on their process to get the citizenship and than invested though the years 150,000 euros more.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
It seems like Bulgaria, Romania, or the former yugoslavian countries might be best just because they are all close to one another and don't have as much of the cold, cold culture, or distance in many ways (literally and diplomatically) as a place like Russia which likely has the best women overall. I often wonder what Bulgaria would be like. Serbians know English really well though, and slavic language? I dunno...
 

Eusebius

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Ukraine should be seriously considered. If you set up a company and place $100k in it you can get permanent residency. You are then free to use the $100k as you will, a lot of people then buy their residence with those funds. A $100k apartment in Kiev, Lviv or Kharkiv can be quite nice. You then have a home all paid for, and permanent residence in a low tax, European Christian country.
 

iop890

Crow
Gold Member
Which countries in Asia, if any, are not locked down or have minimal restrictions?

Not talking about closed borders really, just countries where quality of life is largely the same as pre-scamdemic once you're inside.

I though Japan was largely still normal but I saw in the lockdown resistance thread that they're apparently not. Anybody have any reports about Vietnam, Thailand, or Korea?
 

Nick

Pigeon
Ask yourself if the countries you are thinking about actually want or need you to come there. Since you don't already have a clear idea of where you want to go (Bulgaria, Poland and Hungary are quite dissimilar) it sounds like you're just a comfort-seeking tourist who isn't going to integrate well into those places. Big cities like Warsaw and Budapest are breeding grounds for leftism and you'll encounter similar problems to those you see in America. The US is a gigantic country with hundreds of thousands of communities spread throughout it, just because whatever metro area you probably live in isn't to your liking doesn't mean you should leave the country. I don't condone the idea of state bouncing like many Americans are doing, but it's better than emigrating and it'd be best just to live in a more rural/conservative part of your own state instead of uprooting yourself completely.

Unless you have strong prospects for marriage with a local woman, you're destining yourself for a superficial, cosmopolitan lifestyle that's going to leave you empty. I am friends with a group of expats from the UK in Eastern Europe and they are great guys, but it requires a certain temperament and until you marry a local woman and get serious about being a contributor to the society, it can be a lonely place. Personally I wouldn't recommend that any man relocate to another country unless they have a cultural connection to the place, better yet that they know the language well and have family there.
 
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