Best Christian Country to expat to by/before 2024

Thank you. I almost mentioned that one, yes I saw it. He had a big "in" as a ROCOR priest and I think an ethnic heritage. I'd love to hear more stories of families that made the move. I wish the Russian government would start building Western refugee programs, but I get it, we all know the dangers of refugees lol... you never know what you're gonna get!

I wish the Russians would allow large number of white South Africans to relocate to their country. Or at the very least, allow in the farmers who could be easily put to work. Supposedly, many average South Africans are having problems leaving their deeply troubled nation.
 

4600_fan

Pigeon
Orthodox
I wish the Russians would allow large number of white South Africans to relocate to their country. Or at the very least, allow in the farmers who could be easily put to work. Supposedly, many average South Africans are having problems leaving their deeply troubled nation.
That would be a great start. Perhaps someone on this board is better connected to Russian policymakers and could bring it up with them or even give us an insider's analysis on where the Russian government sees itself in regards to preserving the Traditionalist west. English language Russian media tries to make Russia into the last bastion of Faith and Tradition in the West, but I see little direct action in that regard. Seriously it could stop trying to get prestige by providing Sputnik Corona Vax and start bringing in people like white South Africans.
 

jeffinjapan

Sparrow
Orthodox
As someone who has lived in a foreign country for almost 30 years with the foreign wife and our mixed race kids, my suggestion is you stay in your home country. If that country is America, then it should be a no-brainer to stay. America is large enough to escape the insanity-for the most part- so stay. Moving to a foreign country, especially one with a different language ain’t easy. And even if it’s an Orthodox country, the transition will be extremely difficult.
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Gold Member
Yea I agree. I think its mostly naive to think you could effectively immerse yourself into a foreign country as a “local”. I think Americans don’t fully understand this because America isn’t a nation state. If you must go abroad, I think a better approach would to just embrace the “expat” role, and accept that you’ll always be a tourist to some degree, but you also may find stronger bonds with follow expats as well.
Parmesan, funny you should say that.. I moved overseas about a decade ago in my early thirties. Had wanted to do it in my late teens but all these nay-saying idiots talked me out of it. I was in the "must move abroad" category. So for many years, I went along mastering a new language. But a few things just didn't quite work, I learned the language(s) but just various turns of events, a mixture of giving into fears and not sticking to the pureness of what I was aiming at in my new country, ultimately meant that the plan came somewhat "unstuck". That's the best word I can find to describe what happened.

Now I find myself listening to podcasts aimed at nomads and expats. Had never done that before for say the first eight years of it. Seriously, it was NEVER what I wanted, I just wanted to integrate, marry into the country I had moved to. I had no problems being an employee in the new language, and doing business in it (successfully), and a few flings with the girls from there but ultimately it just came unstuck. Partially as the girl I was most serious about was from a different European country again.

So a lot of podcasters talk about the expat / nomadic lifestyle. To "embrace" that role. I have done well to avoid other native English speakers, really there is not even one in my circle. You could say though that there are European expats in my circle, they don't all speak or don't like to speak the language of the new country but their native language is also not English. I was so strongly trying to not embrace that role and really do the opposite of it but a mixture of moving overseas too late in life, general bad luck has led me to be more open to what goodness there may be in the expat world. It's not the ideal though, probably best to first aim to integrate, and only if that fails, or partially fails, connect with the expats.

Not sure if I am imagining it but I think there is a slight trend towards libertarian politics amongst the expats. I lean more traditional conservative but the libertarians have something to give as well.
 

SeaEagle

Sparrow
As someone who has lived in a foreign country for almost 30 years with the foreign wife and our mixed race kids, my suggestion is you stay in your home country. If that country is America, then it should be a no-brainer to stay. America is large enough to escape the insanity-for the most part- so stay. Moving to a foreign country, especially one with a different language ain’t easy. And even if it’s an Orthodox country, the transition will be extremely difficult.
Thanks for sharing. I have an objection though. You moved as a visibly non-Japanese person to a strongly homogenous country. This would produce much more friction than a (huwhite) American moving to Hungary.

I agree with America being a safer bet than most, especially if that is your homeland. Not so much due to geography but due to culture. Canada and Australia are big too, but that doesn't comfort me much.
 
That would be a great start. Perhaps someone on this board is better connected to Russian policymakers and could bring it up with them or even give us an insider's analysis on where the Russian government sees itself in regards to preserving the Traditionalist west. English language Russian media tries to make Russia into the last bastion of Faith and Tradition in the West, but I see little direct action in that regard. Seriously it could stop trying to get prestige by providing Sputnik Corona Vax and start bringing in people like white South Africans.
Don't put any faith in government policymakers, especially when they claim to be traditionalists, look at their actions not their words. While there are certainly genuine Christians among Russian and Eastern European politicians, I believe that most of the ostensible conservatives see nationalism as a marketing angle to advance their power-hungry ambitions. As to white South African migration, I wouldn't assume that they'd naturally fit anywhere else in large numbers and they would likely create new problems, as is often the case with ghettoized minorities who aren't pressured to assimilate. I know a South African guy in Poland, and some UK expats, they are cool, but would 10,000 more of them make my country a better place? No, I don't think so. Accepting large numbers of people from failed societies who aren't your own kind is bad policy.
 

Parmesan

Woodpecker
Parmesan, funny you should say that.. I moved overseas about a decade ago in my early thirties. Had wanted to do it in my late teens but all these nay-saying idiots talked me out of it. I was in the "must move abroad" category. So for many years, I went along mastering a new language. But a few things just didn't quite work, I learned the language(s) but just various turns of events, a mixture of giving into fears and not sticking to the pureness of what I was aiming at in my new country, ultimately meant that the plan came somewhat "unstuck". That's the best word I can find to describe what happened.
I don't know about you, but considering my maturity at 18, my odds of success moving at that age would have been slim to none. You may have made the right move waiting until your 30s, as you have a lot more wisdom and emotional intelligence to avoid the pitfalls of your youth. How long can you realistically fail in a foreign country where you have no support system, and possibly limited ability to legally work? In my case, it would have been way too easy to fly back home to my mom's couch and meet my friend's for a beer, rather than grind it out as some second class citizen, likely working worse jobs for worse pay than I could in America.

Something you quickly notice as your travel, is how attractive your purchasing power in America is. While places like Turkey seem incredibly cheap to a visitor on the USDollar, when you look at the cost of goods and services compared to wages, things are actually very expensive for locals. You get relatively good value for your working dollars in America (outside of places like NYC, California, etc.), and it's difficult to leave that if your going to be a wage earner elsewhere.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
I think for this reason, and especially if you have parents and family still in the USA, the only real consideration is the Mr. Worldwide route that keeps you around a foreign country long enough for stretches, so as to create connections and a gf/wife/family, but maintains the USA link and USD. The thing is that you could do this for a decade if possible, and then move the family possibly back as the kids get older or closer to adult age, at which time a wife would already be less valuable (to others) or not really realistically will be seduced by the consumer culture of the USA. Again, the problem is that you just can't get a young enough wife as an older man to make it worthwhile, so it's foreign age gap or bust, to be honest.
 

LoveBug

Kingfisher
Taking a step back, it's not that America is bad (it will go regional), it's that it's nearly impossible to find a suitable wife here if you are a successful man. If you don't care about a family, I find it hard to believe anyone would leave the USA or the Americas, to be honest.

Yeah it seems paradoxical.

I think citizens of most Eastern European countries or Caucuses countries wouldnt mind living in the USA.

As much as folks complain about immigration to the West, there is a reason why the West needs immigration in the first place. Its citizens are living in advanced nations and aren't in a position to need to do the manual/laborious work.
 
Hi all. What do you guys think about Russia? Firstly, I know you cannot simply "move to Russia." I mean hypothetically if Russia decided to actually start issuing refugee visas for Americans and other Westerners fleeing globohomo, would you consider it?

I currently live in the USA and frankly I'm so depressed with my current situation. I have travelled extensively and lived overseas for years. Well, I'm back after returning in 2018 and with corona and the lockdowns, well you know, everything just got worse even though I live in a firmly red state. Frankly, I hate living in the United States. I know it could be worse, I could be born a Yemeni etc. But I just hate it here. Being an Orthodox Christian and having been exposed to the world outside the great satan I don't subscribe to the American narrative of history at all. Also, I think the entire culture is fake and basically a consumer society that has no real historical nationhood or ethnos to look back to as a method of resisting said globohomo. To me, America is just dead space, meaningless strip malls repeating themselves like the fractal expression of a deep spiritual cancer.

For me, traveling to (or living in) old world countries either in Europe or in Asia is the only time I actually feel like I fully exist as a human being. Well, that and Liturgy. To me real living is being surrounded by the sacred. Old things, things that weren't built for the sole purpose of extracting money as efficiently as possible, things with history, people with real cultures, that's whats real to me, and that's what counts as really human.

That being said, I also know that most other countries are closed societies. Some of them carve out a nice comfortable niche for foreigners (Thailand comes to mind) but you can never "join" them. You'll always be on the outside. Frankly, it's only the globohomo countries that even pretend to be "open" which makes sense considering the ultimate goal to produce a universal consumer that is completely interchangeable with any other human being. So, you'd have to carve out some kind of niche existance for yourself and hopefully make friends with fellow expats but at the same time assimilate as much as possible and learn the language and try to make some native friends too.

So, would you consider Russia? Does anyone actually know anyone who moved there and their experiences? Seriously if I was given the opportunity, I would consider it but I don't know how I could contribute to their society not knowing the language and being from a spiritually poisonous country.
I’m a somewhat former Russophile. Never visited but loved the women/language/music/art/landscape/mysticism/humour/cinema. Perhaps this will come back.

I’ve been put off atm after hearing too many horror stories irl from people moving to Russia and getting killed/mugged. Apparently conditions have deteriorated significantly in the past 5 years. I don’t know why.

I’m personally gunning for Vienna atm. It has an atmosphere I can’t describe but I love. Also a thriving EO community apparently!

Слава богу и господи помилуй
 

TripleG

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I’m a somewhat former Russophile. Never visited but loved the women/language/music/art/landscape/mysticism/humour/cinema. Perhaps this will come back.

I’ve been put off atm after hearing too many horror stories irl from people moving to Russia and getting killed/mugged. Apparently conditions have deteriorated significantly in the past 5 years. I don’t know why.

I’m personally gunning for Vienna atm. It has an atmosphere I can’t describe but I love. Also a thriving EO community apparently!

Слава богу и господи помилуй
@Faithwrestler, I see you mentioned Vienna. I lived in Vienna, Austria in 2017 thanks to my job. It is indeed a peaceful, rule-based society with very high living standards, low crime and much less emphasis on consumerism and liberalism than it's larger neighbor to the north (Germany). It is also one of the few countries in central Europe which is heavily conservative Catholic and I truly enjoyed living there, worshipping, exploring all the rich Austro-Hungarian historical sites, trying to make friends with the locals (which is another story onto itself), partaking in the beautiful nature, especially boating in the rivers/ lakes, and hiking mountains and just losing myself in the various restaurants/cafes which have not changed in 100+ years of Vienna and the surrounding towns. If one has a background in German and can speak at least at conversational level I may say that it is a great place for a Christian to emigrate to. I was depressed for many months when my contract ended and I had to move back to USA, Washington, DC area.

Later this year at the old age of 42 I had been begging my employer for 3 years to relocate me to a hub in Eastern/Central Europe again and due to family matters and personal wishes (God Willing) I will finally be moving permanently to Bulgaria (Sofia) which is another country in Europe that is still (at least on paper) highly conservative and has retained its Eastern Orthodox roots. While I expect the language to be a barrier to integration at first, I am optimistic that within a year I shall overcome it and will be sharing my experiences on this forum from time to time.
 
@Faithwrestler, I see you mentioned Vienna. I lived in Vienna, Austria in 2017 thanks to my job. It is indeed a peaceful, rule-based society with very high living standards, low crime and much less emphasis on consumerism and liberalism than it's larger neighbor to the north (Germany). It is also one of the few countries in central Europe which is heavily conservative Catholic and I truly enjoyed living there, worshipping, exploring all the rich Austro-Hungarian historical sites, trying to make friends with the locals (which is another story onto itself), partaking in the beautiful nature, especially boating in the rivers/ lakes, and hiking mountains and just losing myself in the various restaurants/cafes which have not changed in 100+ years of Vienna and the surrounding towns. If one has a background in German and can speak at least at conversational level I may say that it is a great place for a Christian to emigrate to. I was depressed for many months when my contract ended and I had to move back to USA, Washington, DC area.

Later this year at the old age of 42 I had been begging my employer for 3 years to relocate me to a hub in Eastern/Central Europe again and due to family matters and personal wishes (God Willing) I will finally be moving permanently to Bulgaria (Sofia) which is another country in Europe that is still (at least on paper) highly conservative and has retained its Eastern Orthodox roots. While I expect the language to be a barrier to integration at first, I am optimistic that within a year I shall overcome it and will be sharing my experiences on this forum from time to time.
Good to hear, thanks for your response Triple G

I’ve only had a 20 hr overlay in Varna but I loved the atmosphere (different to Vienna, materially more of a dump but spiritually something was there). I’ve met good Bulgarian Christians. I’ve heard good things about Sofia from friends whose taste I trust. Also, Bulgaria had a good record during the war. Something I sense is testament to the soul of the people (they saved their jews)...

That said, online, the internet suggests Bulgaria is depressing. The population is shrinking and sloth is endemic.

Ultimately, all we can do is pray and seek his Almighty and Ever glorious will for our lives.

Godspeed wherever you are led!
 

Cortés

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Anyone here from Italy? Or anyone who has spent some time there lately

After 2 years of genealogy and snail mail death certificates I finally have all of the documents and apostilles that I need to claim citizenship by ancestry. Obviously right now the government there is trying to force the vax on all workers and for entry into any business. It does seem that there is some serious resistance building up, especially with the Portuale in Trieste shutting down ports on the 15th.

Can anyone answer how strictly businesses are following the green pass system in small towns? Would I have trouble eating in a restaurant or going to a gym somewhere out in the country side? Im not worried about the requirements for entering the country, but any information about how compliant people are outside of Rome, Milan, Naples etc would be appreciated.

I'm mostly looking at southern Italy. My research tells me people are still very traditional, Catholic and family minded in those parts. Because of my knowledge of Portuguese and Spanish, I can read Italian to some extent. I know with more studying I can get to a pretty solid level. I'm not expecting to ever be considered a true Italian, but my hope is to be accepted by locals and be a part of a community. I'll spend at least 6 months to a year there in the case I don't like it and want out. But obviously if I feel a tangible connection to the land then I'm gonna settle down. I post quite a bit in the South America expat thread about Brazil, but I want to try Europe for some significant time before choosing where I will permanently live
 

Going strong

Crow
Gold Member
Good to hear, thanks for your response Triple G

I’ve only had a 20 hr overlay in Varna but I loved the atmosphere (different to Vienna, materially more of a dump but spiritually something was there). I’ve met good Bulgarian Christians. I’ve heard good things about Sofia from friends whose taste I trust. Also, Bulgaria had a good record during the war. Something I sense is testament to the soul of the people (they saved their jews)...

That said, online, the internet suggests Bulgaria is depressing. The population is shrinking and sloth is endemic.

Ultimately, all we can do is pray and seek his Almighty and Ever glorious will for our lives.

Godspeed wherever you are led!

Varna is definitely not "a dump". Its central beach front, large sea garden, main pedestrian street leading to the Black Sea, are very nice, well maintained and extremely rich in History.

I actually had written a datasheet here on the forum on Varna, where I spent a good deal of time just a few years ago. This city in Summer is absolutely great, and cheap.

TripleG, you'll love Sofia, don't worry. Also, don't you worry about the language, most (employed) Bulgarians in Sofia speak good English. Most of them are Conservative, good Christians, smart and quite welcoming, too.
 

JohnKreese

Pelican
Anyone here from Italy? Or anyone who has spent some time there lately

After 2 years of genealogy and snail mail death certificates I finally have all of the documents and apostilles that I need to claim citizenship by ancestry. Obviously right now the government there is trying to force the vax on all workers and for entry into any business. It does seem that there is some serious resistance building up, especially with the Portuale in Trieste shutting down ports on the 15th.

Can anyone answer how strictly businesses are following the green pass system in small towns? Would I have trouble eating in a restaurant or going to a gym somewhere out in the country side? Im not worried about the requirements for entering the country, but any information about how compliant people are outside of Rome, Milan, Naples etc would be appreciated.

I'm mostly looking at southern Italy. My research tells me people are still very traditional, Catholic and family minded in those parts. Because of my knowledge of Portuguese and Spanish, I can read Italian to some extent. I know with more studying I can get to a pretty solid level. I'm not expecting to ever be considered a true Italian, but my hope is to be accepted by locals and be a part of a community. I'll spend at least 6 months to a year there in the case I don't like it and want out. But obviously if I feel a tangible connection to the land then I'm gonna settle down. I post quite a bit in the South America expat thread about Brazil, but I want to try Europe for some significant time before choosing where I will permanently live
I know that you are asking more about quality of life in Italy, but I want to chime in on the citizenship portion. Be aware that even getting an appointment to go over this stuff at an Italian embassy might be years in the making and it will likely take at least another year or two for the oh-so-hard working Italian bureaucrats to process everything.

I have a couple of friends who recently went through the process and even scheduling the embassy appointments was a nightmare for them (ex. waiting up into the middle of the night to TRY to make appointments at obscure embassies).

Hopefully the process is better for you, but to be honest, Corona madness might be over (heh) before you have the passport in hand.
 

Cortés

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I know that you are asking more about quality of life in Italy, but I want to chime in on the citizenship portion. Be aware that even getting an appointment to go over this stuff at an Italian embassy might be years in the making and it will likely take at least another year or two for the oh-so-hard working Italian bureaucrats to process everything.

I have a couple of friends who recently went through the process and even scheduling the embassy appointments was a nightmare for them (ex. waiting up into the middle of the night to TRY to make appointments at obscure embassies).

Hopefully the process is better for you, but to be honest, Corona madness might be over (heh) before you have the passport in hand.
Believe me, I'm well aware how long it will take to get it through the consulate! I scheduled an appointment last year for 2024, the earliest possible time. However, you can also apply in Italy in any town. The process takes anywhere from 3 months to a year and can start immediately. You get a year residency permit while you wait. Doing it this way you reportedly have a better chance of success, as you're demonstrating that you actually want to have a connection with the country and the requirements are relaxed a bit. There's also a way to do it through an Italian lawyer, but all of the ones I contacted were flakey and missed the scheduled consultation
 

JohnKreese

Pelican
Believe me, I'm well aware how long it will take to get it through the consulate! I scheduled an appointment last year for 2024, the earliest possible time. However, you can also apply in Italy in any town. The process takes anywhere from 3 months to a year and can start immediately. You get a year residency permit while you wait. Doing it this way you reportedly have a better chance of success, as you're demonstrating that you actually want to have a connection with the country and the requirements are relaxed a bit. There's also a way to do it through an Italian lawyer, but all of the ones I contacted were flakey and missed the scheduled consultation
Awesome. Yeah, I forgot about the ability to apply at the local government office.

As it is, the whole "better chance being boots on the ground" bit is such a nonsense kind of policy. Like, its either citizenship by descent (which is generally constitutionally mandated in countries that offer this) or it is some kind of heritage + "intent" citizenship combination (which is at least partially arbitrary).

I hope it works out for you. I would assume that there would be some kind of forum or Facebook group where people discuss their success (and failure) stories with different cities, offices, etc. Hopefully you won't get banned for asking about vax pass nonsense! :laughter:
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Gold Member
I wish the Russians would allow large number of white South Africans to relocate to their country. Or at the very least, allow in the farmers who could be easily put to work. Supposedly, many average South Africans are having problems leaving their deeply troubled nation.
Could have sworn they were.
 
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