Best English Language Bible?

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
It's the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart of Jesus today. With this morning's Missal readings, I was really stumped with the concept of 'Prefinitio'. The explanation given made me feel like there was more to it, with a margin reference to the 'Eternal Praefinitio'.

I started trying to research the word, without much enlightenment, at least via Duckduckgo, and, well, Google is Spiritually-Corrupt. Suddenly, I was told that I really needed a Physical Dictionary.

With a few seconds, I was directed to J.M. Harden's Dictionary of the Vulgate New Testament from 1921, which can be found online here:

https://archive.org/details/dictionaryofvulg00hard

For anyone reading the 'old-timey' versions of the Bible, and you stumble upon Latin Phrases, this will make your study much easier.

You're going to have to increasingly go backwards to find the true definition of words: it's painful to see over the least few years how both Merriam-Webster and Oxford Dictionaries have been converged by the Adversaries. Webster's pages are full of that cringey Shitlib humour-that-isn't-humourous, and Oxford's main page is obvious United Nations and Vatican II-style Cult of Man Worship:

https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/

This stuff was being sold everywhere through my childhood in the 1970's, to such a ridiculous degree it struck me as weird, even as a child, because I saw how much friction existed between people of the same culture and language in the same classroom. Since division into nations and languages was part of the Natural Law, I was thinking more on what increasingly-strikes me as a cross-cultural-brainwashing project.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
I tracked down Ludwig Ott's 'Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma', from the early 20th Century. I'm reading a 50's English Translation. It's like the Catechism on Steroids.

At first it was dry reading, to a hilarious degree, then suddenly, I completely clicked into the rhythms of it, and I'm genuinely-enjoying it, because Ott has no time for anyone's crap. It's curt and to the point in a masculine manner. Enough to the degree I'm going to spend the money on a physical copy, (and it's a pricey work).

A sample extract. Note my bolding:

2. Atheism The systems of agnosticism, scepticism, and Kantian criticism deny the certain knowability and the demonstrability of the existence of God, but can be associated with the belief in a Divine Being. They are based on the principle; We do not know and we shall not know (Ignoramus et Ignorabimus).

Negative atheism is inculpable ignorance regarding the existence of God. Positive atheism (materialism, pantheism) directly denies the existence of a supramundane, personal Divine Being. It was condemned by the Vatican Council. D 1801-1803.

As far as the possibility of atheism is concerned, it cannot be denied that there are atheistic doctrinal systems (materialism, pantheism) and practical atheists, that is, people who live as if there were no God. The possibility, that there are also subjectively convinced theoretical atheists, is founded in the spiritual and moral weakness of man, and on the fact that the proofs of God are not immediately, but only mediately evident. But as the knowledge of God can easily be gained from the contemplation of nature and the life of the soul, it will not be possible permanently to adhere to an honest and positive conviction of the nonexistence of God. An inculpable and invincible ignorance regarding the existence of God is not possible for a long time in a normal, grown-up person, in view of the facility of the natural knowledge of God attested in Holy Writ and in Tradition. Cf. Rom. 1,.20; ita ut sint inexcusabiles.

Fedoras are either Spiritual Autists, or are incapable of honest contemplation, or have Infantile Minds, or, all of the above.

:laugh:

I've suspect I'm going to quote Ignoramus et Ignorabimus to my Gamma Stepfather. I'll ask for forgiveness later.
 

Tex Cruise

Kingfisher
I've just ordered a pretty cheap used copy of this:







The "Eight-Translation New Testament" allows you to read Eight translations side-by-side on each spread: "The Living Bible" King James Version "Phillips' Modern English" Revised Standard Version Today's English Version New International Version "The Jerusalem Bible" "The New English Bible"

Should be a very handy reference that saves me a lot of the swapping between books, tabs, new tabs, google searches etc that I've done since this thread started. Now that I know just how different these translations can be, I think it'll be interesting to see them side by side.

(The cover shot doesn't make it clear, but I assume the head of the big rainbow cock and balls is on the back cover.)
 

Tex Cruise

Kingfisher
^This book turned up last night. I've only had a chance to have a bit of a quick look through it but I think it's going to serve me as a very handy reference for many years.

AB, You've expressed that your time posting here may be ending and I want to point out just how valuable your posts can be, even ones as quick and seemingly insignificant as those in this thread.

Your posts here have showed just how distorted/corrupted the Holy Bible has become.

I might not be on the right track yet, but I am aware. I know to question every paragraph, and I am never going to forget that's how it works. I've seen it.

But how long would that have taken me to figure out on my own? I'd have probably given up, thrown Christ out with a shitty bible translation.

If not for just one of your thousands of posts.

I'll never give up now.

Not that I'll be fanatical about it, but I'll keep looking for the rest of my life.

What price do you put on that?

Talk about contributing value to the forum.
 

Mage

 
Tex Cruise said:
I've just ordered a pretty cheap used copy of this:


Guys, would you really trust a Bible with a giant pinkish rainbow pair of testicles on it's cover?

My intuitions says to stay clear of it.
 

FilipSRB

Woodpecker
Kid Twist said:
^ Tell him, Filip

(-:

If somebody has said to me five years ago that an internet forum I found while trying to get better with women would play a significant part in bringing me back to Christianity I would have laughed in his face. Indeed, how can you put a price on that?
 

Mage

 
FilipSRB said:
Kid Twist said:
^ Tell him, Filip

(-:

If somebody has said to me five years ago that an internet forum I found while trying to get better with women would play a significant part in bringing me back to Christianity I would have laughed in his face. Indeed, how can you put a price on that?

The average age and maturity of members in this forum just got up, that's whats happened.

You will be even more amused by the shape of this place when the average age here hits 60+ and almost nobody actively chases girls any more. What would a bunch of old former players talk about? Will our methods and beliefs work with the next generation of pussy hunters in the ever changing world after 3 decades? If this forum survives that long it would be interesting to see.

Christianity is still a false form of spirituality trough. The Church is a trap for those who want to seek God. It pretends to give answers with actually providing just a few excuses and half-truths. God lives in nature and fresh air and pagan spirituality is more red pill and more truthful.

You think that you have found God, but what probably happened is that you just got older and more mellow. Church is the spiritual equivalent of a retirement home where senile old people waste their money playing bingo as cruel and uncaring personnel change their diapers daily while treating them as prisoners. If you want to age gracefully, be in good shape and remain independent at old age - don't let yourself be contained by some collection of loosely related scripture and stagnant air of church.
 
Mage said:
FilipSRB said:
Kid Twist said:
^ Tell him, Filip

(-:

If somebody has said to me five years ago that an internet forum I found while trying to get better with women would play a significant part in bringing me back to Christianity I would have laughed in his face. Indeed, how can you put a price on that?

The average age and maturity of members in this forum just got up, that's whats happened.

You will be even more amused by the shape of this place when the average age here hits 60+ and almost nobody actively chases girls any more. What would a bunch of old former players talk about? Will our methods and beliefs work with the next generation of pussy hunters in the ever changing world after 3 decades? If this forum survives that long it would be interesting to see.

Christianity is still a false form of spirituality trough. The Church is a trap for those who want to seek God. It pretends to give answers with actually providing just a few excuses and half-truths. God lives in nature and fresh air and pagan spirituality is more red pill and more truthful.

You think that you have found God, but what probably happened is that you just got older and more mellow. Church is the spiritual equivalent of a retirement home where senile old people waste their money playing bingo as cruel and uncaring personnel change their diapers daily while treating them as prisoners. If you want to age gracefully, be in good shape and remain independent at old age - don't let yourself be contained by some collection of loosely related scripture and stagnant air of church.

You never give a basis on which you support any of this.

It's like you haven't figured out that worshiping God in spirit and truth can be done in a fallen world. You don't think the most spiritually advanced realize that there are all sorts of things "in the Church" that are crazy, from generation to generation? What do you think the Pauline letters were for, from the beginning?

God lives in nature and fresh air and pagan spirituality is more red pill and more truthful.

Paganism was always the same shit. It is dead, ultimately, like all of us.

God created nature. Worshipping the created and not the Creator is the very essence of the problem of humanity.

I would have thought an intelligent person would have found that out by now. Notice that I can behold the beauty of nature and the "fresh air" the same as you but not be beholden by it, or fooled by it, as if it has power in itself. Come on, man.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
Remember the Litany of Humility, and the Gospel. Being mocked for the name of Christ means you are being blessed. Don't return evil for evil. Use the Grace Mage has offered us wisely.

I was tempted to let him irritate me, remembered Christ's words on the subject to forgive Mage, went looking for them in the Gospel, noticed a word in Latin in the side column I'd missed before, couldn't find it in the Latin Vulgate Dictionary I had, did a search and...

...grace...

https://isidore.co/calibre/get/pdf/4514/CalibreLibrary

There's the English Spelling retyping of the 1582 Rheims New Testament I've been talking about in this entire thread, available to download, at no cost.

Unless you're really into understanding the History of the Schism and the Reformation, Matthew 1 starts on Page 30. Whilst you mightn't understand Catholic Belief now, if you read the arguments, you'll start understanding why the beliefs exist.

Bless you, Mage, for allowing God to grace those in this thread who were seeking knowledge.
 

Aurini

Ostrich
Something I've been reflecting upon quite a bit recently is Christ's response to being ridiculed with the crown of thorns.

And then I compare that to my own response to being unjustly ridiculed.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
Aurini said:
Something I've been reflecting upon quite a bit recently is Christ's response to being ridiculed with the crown of thorns.

And then I compare that to my own response to being unjustly ridiculed.

Because the shame of the praetorium has nothing on the rage of Twitter.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
Aurini said:
Something I've been reflecting upon quite a bit recently is Christ's response to being ridiculed with the crown of thorns.

And then I compare that to my own response to being unjustly ridiculed.

The Third Sorrowful Mystery. It's His reparation for our sins of pride.

What I love saying the Rosary for the first half of the year now, is that the Mysteries seem fairly-straight forward to begin with, but as my studies grow more intense, and as my prayer life increases, the mysteries only seem to deepen in complexity.

Like yesterday, I truly-started to understand how the Passion is the New Eve - without sin - returning Fruit (her son) to the Tree (the cross), thereby giving back God what is owed him, and crushing the serpent's head. It's Jesus undoing the Fall. I read a book on Sin earlier in the year, but it seemed to need time to really percolate in my head before boiling. Then, suddenly, there it was.

So why Thorns?

17 And to Adam He said: “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree from which I commanded you not to eat, Cursed is the ground because of you; through toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it will yield you, and you will eat the plants of the field.

Whilst many sins were committed during the fall, the First Sin was Pride.

Jesus takes the curse of thorns that was given to Adam back onto himself, offering us forgiveness.

It's beautiful in its simplicity.
 
scorpion said:
AnonymousBosch said:
This is a great example.

In Catholic Tradition, Mary wasn't subject to the law of purification, since she was born free of original sin and remained a Virgin after miraculously-birthing Jesus without pain as 'light passes through glass', but submitted to it regardless to teach humility.

Not sure if you're endorsing this view or not, but it's very clearly a heretical, anti-biblical teaching. The de facto deification of Mary in the Catholic tradition is entirely the teaching of men, not of God and the Bible. Scripture is very clear that all men (and women) inherited a sin nature from Adam - including Mary. Christ himself was the only sinless human. Mary was a normal woman, just like the Apostles were normal men. Both Mary and the Apostles were favored by God and chosen for important tasks, but they were not without sin.

A quick summary of the Mary heresy: https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130227/exposing-the-heresies-of-the-catholic-church-mary-worship

A quick exposition of the Catholic position: https://www.catholic.com/tract/immaculate-conception-and-assumption

If you read both you find that the Catholic position is clearly contra-biblical, and largely relies on the description of Mary being "full of grace" as somehow indicating a sinless physical state from birth (rather than of simply being the obvious description of a woman who was favored by God to bear the Savior of mankind). There is no biblical evidence for Mary being without sin. It's just something they made up and which became tradition.

My intent is not to bash Catholicism, though. There is just as much (if not more) heresy among modern Protestants, most denominations of which are extremely pozzed. We desperately need another Reformation and a return to a focus on the actual teachings of Scripture, which alone are God-breathed and the source of divine revelation. Following the teachings and traditions of men instead of God corrupted the Jews, it corrupted the Catholic Church and it has now corrupted most Protestant denominations as well. We must return to a true understanding of the faith as taught in scripture.

sola scriptura
sola fide
sola gratia
solus Christus
soli deo gloria

Scorpion, generally I agree with many of your posts regarding religion, so I hate to debate you... But, you argue that Mary is deified in Catholicism and I am always astounded as to how Protestants believe this. First off, the last sentence in the Hail Mary is "Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death amen." If you look closely, you will notice that is says "Pray for us sinners" and not "Help us sinners." If Mary was truly a deity, that would mean she had Godlike powers, which would make the latter a more suitable clincher to the Hail Mary. However, since Mary in and of herself has no power, she must ask God for what we want. Kind of like a mediator between us and God, though, not to the same extent that Christ is a mediator between us and God.

Also, I would argue that Mary as our spiritual mother is definitely biblical. For example, in Jn 19: 26-27, Christ says

"When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home."

I know that this is English and not Greek so the original translation could be differ, but it would make no sense for Christ to tell John that Mary was to be his mother. Obviously, Christ probably would have wanted a man to look after his mother, but, if that was his only desire, he would have simply said, "Look after my mother."
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
There's copious footnotes in the Douay-Rheims I linked above explaining the importance of Mary.

Since then, I've also read 'This Vale of Tears' by AJ West, 'Mariology' by Rev M.J. Scheeben and 'True Devotion to Mary' by St Louis De Montfort, all of which explain just how key Mary's role was in the Redemption.

During the Presentation of the Child Jesus in the Temple, St Simeon prophecies - which is the inspired word of God - who Jesus is, and Mary then has full knowledge of how her son will be despised, and what her son will undergo during the passion. As I've mentioned before, she was the New Eve returning the Fruit to the Tree of her own free will, which gave her power over Satan's forces.

But also, her willingness to suffer alongside her son in the Passion - her sinless nature making her suffer beyond anything we can feel - is the piercing of her soul with a sword. The Graces she receives from this act is to be able to see the hidden truth within the hearts of men, which means, you can pray devotions to her to ask to be graced with this knowledge.

In the 'do you believe in God?' thread, I wrote how praying the Seven Sorrows devotion suddenly graced me with deep understanding of what the problem over my family was, and I saw all the damage that had been done because of it.

Note that I didn't figure it out. It was delivered as one huge gift of understanding. Properly-armed, I was able to successfully-repair my relationship with my father after decades.

I've been trying to get my Sister to pray the devotion herself, so she similarly-understands, but the problem is she listens to some Idiot Protestant Woman on Youtube who claims to have 'visions', and this has made her mistrust The Blessed Lady, and has given her the stupid idea that our loved ones can come back as 'angels' to watch over us.

I said, "No, Angels are angels. We don't turn into them." As I understand it, in Catholicism, The Church Triumphant is spiritually-fulfilled by The Beatific Vision and closeness to God, but we can pray to them for help and ask them to pray for us, but they don't hang around us on earth, looking after us. That's the Guardian Angel's role, and why he was created. If we want to help, we can pray for those in Purgatory (The Church Suffering), or try to help those currently on earth (The Church Militant).

Now, I had a period of utter peace for about a week after meeting Dad the second time. Something had lost its grip on me. I can see I was a little too overconfident, and, from further reading and listening I can see a complete withdrawal by the demonic can mean they're about to rally their forces for a flanking attack.

The last week has been Hell. I've never been through this kind of Oppression. They're going all out on me, which means I'm being pulled between the state of Saint and Sinner at ridiculous speeds.

From what I've read, they're fighting for their lives, because they're about to lose me, particularly once I started Meditative Prayer last week. I've been graced twice with Infused Contemplation - an absolutely indescribable feeling - then, an hour later, I'm on this site complaining about unimportant things and getting into shitfights.

Frustrated with being in this Disordered State, I prayed on the Seven Sorrows again. This morning, I asked Our Lady to enlighten me where to go to find a Traditional Mass - I had asked at the Diocese, but the women there couldn't help me. Note, they didn't even know what the Brown Scapular was, and there was no religious icongraphy in the lobby, except hundreds of pictures of Cult of Man worship: diversity kittens, aboriginal art etc. The One Cross they did have was an aboriginal painting.

Since I'd been reading the Missal every morning anyway, I figured I might as well just start going to Mass each morning, particularly given what I'm fighting at the moment. Today was the Solemnity of St Peter and St Paul, and a different Priest was there. Now, it's a Carmelite Monastery, so no-one talks before or after mass, but the Priest in his welcome made a reference to his doing the Extraordinary Mass each week (Latin Mass) at a very out of the way chapel in a Convent that I didn't think was open to the public - it doesn't have any online profile, pure hidden knowledge - but I checked up there later today, and, yes, Latin Mass each Sunday, and all are welcome.

Our Lady delivers what I was seeking again, and to such a wretched sinner as myself!

The first time I did the Devotion. I'd asked what was the Generation Spirit over my family, meaning, my Father, Mother, Sister and I, but I was starting to notice patterns going further back, and sensed there was something bigger.

So, two days back, I prayed to know what was the problem that was over my Father and his brothers and sisters. That whole side family was, well, rotten and damaged.

A few hours later, I had a clear flash of a Freemason Ring on my father's finger in my head. I rang my Sister and told her what Our Lady had graced me with. She fought it.

I said, "No, our Grandfather was a Freemason. Given his wealth and position in the community, he would have been high up too."

She argued with me how he'd 'hung around' after he died, like he was 'looking out for us' - personally, I think it's a bad spiritual sign if anyone DOES hang around - and how loving and affectionate he always seemed to be to her.

I said "It doesn't matter what you think or how nice he seemed" - hell, I've known plenty of good-looking and charming despicible human beings - "They offer up their children and their family line to Demons."

She wasn't listening. I just can't seem to break through the Mary Barrier with her.

I'm utterly-sick and full of contempt for what I'm dealing with. I want this thing gone out of our family forever.

I rang the Presbytery yesterday and spoke to a Priest, kind of expecting him to laugh at me. I mentioned the Occult childhood and said Our Lady had informed me there was Freemasonary as well. He didn't laugh: he said we need to examine the whole family history closely, and then named the Spirit for me. I won't say the name, but it's interesting another Member just casually-mentioned Freemasonary in his family yesterday and didn't think it was anything serious.

Note that I've heard him use that Spirit's name in conversation frequently.

So, I've got an appointment tomorrow, but the interesting thing was, I was with my father after all this happened, and we were talking about his brothers and his father, and, I just oh-so-casually asked, "Were any of them Freemasons?"

Dad: "Oh, yeah, [my grandfather] was heavily-involved. My grandmother was always complaining about it."

Now, this year I've noticed there's been a lot of foreshadowing and repeating events. A few months back, I mentioned how some crazy, nosy woman was trying to get her foot in the door with Bill and I, and I said, "You know women: what are they doing in there?"

Dad had gone on and said "She was always saying 'what do they do in there?' Do you know, I still have his apron?"

My face was grinning, like it was all a big joke, and I changed the subject. Inside:



Our Lady of Sorrows was right again.

My entire life suddenly made perfect sense, particularly why I could never get away from people involved in the occult, and I just read one of the curses of worshipping that particular God is the illness I was struck down with in my early 20's, and the other curses also have held true. Including everyone getting Cancer.

Thanks, Grandpa.

I'll see what happens with the Priest. At least I know what I'm fighting now. If anyone wants to pray for me in this battle, I'd appreciate it.

So, considering the Protestants say Our Blessed Lady supposedly doesn't have any power and shouldn't be prayed to, she's three-for-three in two weeks.
 

Marmite

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I'm going to read this thread properly when I get home from work, so this question may have already been answered, but what is the issue with Freemasonry?
 

scorpion

Ostrich
Gold Member
There is absolutely no basis in scripture to elevate Mary beyond the status of the apostles or other early believers. Full stop. She was a normal woman chosen by God for His purposes. She was not sinless. The Bible clearly says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God - including Mary. We read in Romans chapter 3 that sin entered the world through one man (Adam) and that grace similarly came through one man (Christ). Sin and death spread through humanity through the male line - we are all sons of Adam and bear the mark of his original sin. Everyone with a human father therefore is born into sin. Mary had a human father, therefore Mary had original sin. Only one man did not have a human father and thus was free of that taint - Jesus Christ.

Praying to Mary is fruitless and heretical. Mary has no power to answer prayer, and elevating her to that status is elevating the creation over the creator. All Catholic prayer directed to saints is similarly useless and, quite frankly, blasphemous. Why would you pray to sinful men instead of the God who saved them? John chapter 1 tells us that all things were created by Christ and through Christ, including Mary. She is the creation and should not be honored in place of the creator. Catholics often hem and haw about how they aren't actually worshiping Mary, just praying to her and venerating her and such. But where do you draw the line? Every prayer you direct at Mary instead of Christ/God the Father is a wasted prayer and an insult to the true creator, the living God who along has the power to answer prayer.

We are called Christians, not Marians. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ, not Mary. It was Christ who died on the cross and bore the sins of mankind, not Mary. On what basis then can we find rationale to elevate Mary to quasi-deific status? Pointing to a verse with Jesus instructing a follower to take Mary into his house and look after her is not sufficient grounds, in my opinion. That's reading far more into the text than is actually there. Meanwhile, the New Testament is overflowing with verse after verse emphasizing that salvation comes through Christ alone. He is therefore the proper object of veneration. To elevate anyone or anything alongside Christ is idol worship.

Read the Bible. You don't have to read some obscure fifteenth-century translation, either (apologies to Bosch). God is not hiding out in old books. He is freely available to all who earnestly seek Him out. Christ said knock and the door shall be opened. He didn't say you had to eat a special meal, pray to his mother, give a secret knock and a password and then pick the lock. Just knock on the door (aka read the Word and pray to the living Word - Christ himself). That's it. That is the entire basis of the Christian faith. It is not complicated and the Catholic church does not have a monopoly on salvation. Salvation comes through Christ alone, through faith alone. It is universal and available to everyone, as "God is no respecter of persons" (Acts 10:34).

One of the most important realizations as a Christian is that there is nothing you can do to impress God. Your good works will not save you. Your veneration of saints is meaningless. Your mystical visions are nonsense. This is not about you at all, in fact. It's about Christ and his work. You, as a believer, are the gift of God to Christ - as a body we believers are the bride of Christ. Christ's work of of redemption was the price necessary to reconcile fallen humanity to God and thus to make us suitable for eternal life in the presence of God, as co-heirs with Christ worthy of sharing in his glory (Romans 8:17).
 
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