Black market solutions to maintaining pre-COVID19 freedoms

aynrus

Kingfisher
Yeah it's funny.
My mom left communist russia to go to france back in her days .. now I'm thinking about leaving communist france to go to russia.
Just be very careful about going to Russia, they have the level of totalitarian control that now which makes most countries look free: this stuff is back.

When I came to the US among Russia's collapse in the 90s, it was simply dangerous to be in Russia, people were disappearing and getting killed left and right and hospitals run experiments on unsuspecting people for Western Big Pharma companies. But when I moved to the States and especially when I eventually relocated to stay close to DC, to Virginia, I was shocked by the level of Police State and things reminding of Soviet Union being all over and very similar totalitarianism.
 

Grow Bag

Woodpecker
Just be very careful about going to Russia, they have the level of totalitarian control that now which makes most countries look free: this stuff is back.

When I came to the US among Russia's collapse in the 90s, it was simply dangerous to be in Russia, people were disappearing and getting killed left and right and hospitals run experiments on unsuspecting people for Western Big Pharma companies. But when I moved to the States and especially when I eventually relocated to stay close to DC, to Virginia, I was shocked by the level of Police State and things reminding of Soviet Union being all over and very similar totalitarianism.
This has been my impression from many Russian expatriates. So many on the dissident Right have this idea of based Putin, that Russia is some kind of haven from globalism, which doesn't hold up under scrutiny. I do wonder why Dimitry Orlov keeps championing Putin, it makes me suspicious of him. I'm of the opinion that this CV19 plandemic is a litmus test. I remember that Russia built this Super-Hospital for CV19 cases, I wonder how many beds were taken. If a country adheres to the CV19 hysteria narrative and imposes harsh restrictions, then they are signed up to the Great Reset.
 

bucky

Ostrich
This has been my impression from many Russian expatriates. So many on the dissident Right have this idea of based Putin, that Russia is some kind of haven from globalism, which doesn't hold up under scrutiny. I do wonder why Dimitry Orlov keeps championing Putin, it makes me suspicious of him. I'm of the opinion that this CV19 plandemic is a litmus test. I remember that Russia built this Super-Hospital for CV19 cases, I wonder how many beds were taken. If a country adheres to the CV19 hysteria narrative and imposes harsh restrictions, then they are signed up to the Great Reset.
I speak Russian, lived in the FSU for years, and I'd describe myself as a Russophile. That said, the idealizing of Russia as some redpilled paradise where everything is wonderful does often get out of hand in this corner of the Internet. I think at the end of the day, the biggest problem with the idea of abandoning the West and moving there is that you're not Russian, you're not one of them, and as much as you try you'll always be a foreigner. I'm not saying it couldn't work out or be a good move for some, especially someone like Oberrheiner who is actually partially Russian, I'm just saying it's not at all a guarantee.
 

andy dufresne

Kingfisher
In Minecraft.
Where did you get that stat about 50-75% planning to refuse the vaccine? I hope you're right, but here in blue state big city hell where I live I have yet to meet anyone who's strongly against the vaccine, aside from my wife. Most are eagerly looking forward to shooting up. If I asked, I imagine they'd be ok with forced injections for those who aren't on board.

Oh...this is so true. In my Blue State Hell the Vaxx line will go on for miles on day one. My GF's family just can't wait to get it.

Like lambs to slaughter and they just don't see it.
 

aynrus

Kingfisher
This has been my impression from many Russian expatriates. So many on the dissident Right have this idea of based Putin, that Russia is some kind of haven from globalism, which doesn't hold up under scrutiny. I do wonder why Dimitry Orlov keeps championing Putin, it makes me suspicious of him. I'm of the opinion that this CV19 plandemic is a litmus test. I remember that Russia built this Super-Hospital for CV19 cases, I wonder how many beds were taken. If a country adheres to the CV19 hysteria narrative and imposes harsh restrictions, then they are signed up to the Great Reset.
The scamdemic was a real litmus test.
By thew way, Putin is a lover of CCP and he's basically selling a lot of Russian land via long-term leases to China for logging, agriculture - which ends in stripping and poisoning of much land. In Siberia, the half-joking talk is about Eastern Russia basically becoming China-owned soon.

Some things that went down in Russia this spring...
Horrible isolation camps aka "observators" for anyone suspected of having CON-vid, which included anyone with any kind of sniffles, anyone who traveled (sometimes who simply traveled outside the county), anyone who lived in the same apartment building where someone traveled and had any respiratory infection.
These camps had windows nailed shut and/or bars on them - no way to get fresh air. They were dosed in chlorox daily, while windows stayed shut - enough to kill someone, and several people died in those camps from breathing problems due to bad air.
These camps had bad wiring, like many buildings in Russia and one could burn alive any night there in electrical fire, locked, witih no safety exits.
Travelers who were returning to Russia from overseas had all their belongings and documents taken away, "for disinfection", shoved into a bus and taken to some camp, their cellphones were taken and recording anything in the camp was prohibited.

In Moscow people couldn't leave the house without a pass. And there were permits required for cross-county travel elsewhere. Those lucky ones who were put in self-isolation instead of a camp, were monitored non-stop, including at night, by a smartphone app, to make sure they never leave the flat, even to buy food or dispose of garbage. If you didn't have a smartphone, they gave you one to track you. The apps were faulting sometimes and issueing a bunch of fines for no reason. Emergency medicine pretty much stopped response around Russia (because they were brainwashed to fear con-vid) with people hearing busy messages for hours and being told to just go to a regular clinic.

And scamdemic media campaign is still going there like if it's March....with all the lies in Western media, take these lies and multiply them by 3, that's how Russian media looks. They throw in really cheap dirty lies about people in other countries dropping dead all over as late as this fall. They're also pushing another lie that asymptomatic con-vid people will die anyway, just later, from "terrible hidden consequences".
(English RT is not the version of events that Russian peasants are fed, the opposite).
Hysteria in Russia was way worse than in the States. This was combined with crazy locals sometimes nailing doors of people who returned from travel shut, so that they coulnd't exit their place.
 
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Grow Bag

Woodpecker
The scamdemic was a real litmus test.
By thew way, Putin is a lover of CCP and he's basically selling a lot of Russian land via long-term leases to China for logging, agriculture - which ends in stripping and poisoning of much land. In Siberia, the half-joking talk is about Eastern Russia basically becoming China-owned soon.
Many years ago I watched a film called Dersu Uzala and have had a fascination with Siberian tigers ever since. For me there is nothing quite like it in the animal kingdom. I've read two books about this majestic creature, including one by a Korean conservationist Sooyung Park. He camped out to observe the tigers so as to be protect them from Chinese poachers. So to read that Putin has sold off Siberian land (the taiga?) for logging disgusts me.

Thanks for the rest of your post, it's good to have expats who understand what's really happening. I can't say I'm shocked, but I guess I had a few hopes for Russia. Not now. Nothing is sacred to these devils.
 

Oberrheiner

Pelican
Just be very careful about going to Russia, they have the level of totalitarian control that now which makes most countries look free: this stuff is back.

When I came to the US among Russia's collapse in the 90s, it was simply dangerous to be in Russia, people were disappearing and getting killed left and right and hospitals run experiments on unsuspecting people for Western Big Pharma companies. But when I moved to the States and especially when I eventually relocated to stay close to DC, to Virginia, I was shocked by the level of Police State and things reminding of Soviet Union being all over and very similar totalitarianism.
My wife thinks I'm a fool to believe there is (or will be, before long) a place left on earth without totalitarian control.
Hope dies last I suppose .. :(
 

presidentcarter

Ostrich
Gold Member
In Moscow people couldn't leave the house without a pass.
Please elaborate. How many people? What region? When specifically? And the source?

This doesn't jive with what I hear from my contacts after living in Moscow for three years.

There are also live-streamers you can watch that have been out and about in Piter and Moscow for the last six months showing that people are all out without masks and with smiles on their faces.
 
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aynrus

Kingfisher
Many years ago I watched a film called Dersu Uzala and have had a fascination with Siberian tigers ever since. For me there is nothing quite like it in the animal kingdom. I've read two books about this majestic creature, including one by a Korean conservationist Sooyung Park. He camped out to observe the tigers so as to be protect them from Chinese poachers. So to read that Putin has sold off Siberian land (the taiga?) for logging disgusts me.

Thanks for the rest of your post, it's good to have expats who understand what's really happening. I can't say I'm shocked, but I guess I had a few hopes for Russia. Not now. Nothing is sacred to these devils.
I had seen Dersu Uzala, love tigers. The truth is that if not Putin, there might be no Amur Tiger in Russia by now, due to poachers.
To be fair, he did a lot to protect tigers and to help game warden service.
 

aynrus

Kingfisher
Please elaborate. How many people? What region? When specifically? And the source?

This doesn't jive with what I hear from my contacts after living in Moscow for three years.

There are also live-streamers you can watch that have been out and about in Piter and Moscow for the last six months showing that people are all out without masks and with smiles on their faces.
The city of Moscow: entire city AND the Moscow region, until June.

The pass/permit requirement to leave the house was removed in June. FYI, to go see a doctor - you had to have a permit. Followed by a period where people were allowed to go outside, finally, for a walk, but on fixed schedule based on address, say you could go out on Tuesday for up to 2 hours. Moscow had a period starting about July where masks weren't required OUTSIDE or enforced much, but now there're strict mask requirements not only in Moscow - there's nationwide mask mandates since October. Compliance with law is another question...

The source is me: the native of the city of Moscow, who's well aware of everything that's going on there.
The sources are all media reports, social media and personal discussions, from Russia, which you can not read because you don't know the language.

Now tell me how QR codes ain't required in Taiwan, Australia and China, and there was never a lock down there and 'bout these big ole pool parties, and how free it is there.... I'm sure there're sources that'd tell you that too. End of story.
 

aynrus

Kingfisher
My wife thinks I'm a fool to believe there is (or will be, before long) a place left on earth without totalitarian control.
Hope dies last I suppose .. :(
Depends on the flavor of totalitarian control, I guess.
I'd guess in many countries in Latin America should be little of it, in terms of actual obedience to laws....the laws might be there, but might be not observed. But then again, if you're a local you might be treated differently than a foreigner/immigrant, and the locals might be able to get away with things a gringo can not, at least until one lives there for a while and gets good with launguage and connections.
There're a thread here about where to relocated to escape the New Normal. Seems like it's more relaxed in Mexico right now.
I'm going to head to Belarus soon, I think.
 

aynrus

Kingfisher
I speak Russian, lived in the FSU for years, and I'd describe myself as a Russophile. That said, the idealizing of Russia as some redpilled paradise where everything is wonderful does often get out of hand in this corner of the Internet. I think at the end of the day, the biggest problem with the idea of abandoning the West and moving there is that you're not Russian, you're not one of them, and as much as you try you'll always be a foreigner. I'm not saying it couldn't work out or be a good move for some, especially someone like Oberrheiner who is actually partially Russian, I'm just saying it's not at all a guarantee.

There's American-born farmer Jastas living in Russia for a long time, The Merry Milkman... he could fool me into believing he's a native Russian, I swear. There're 2 Russias, really....MSK and SPB is one and the rest of it is a different country.

I really would laugh at anyone wanting to move to Russia now... But hey, there're people who move to China voluntarily, they might enjoy the Covid camps and medical experiments, and their doors nailed shut or having a padlock outside, you know.

I got the citizenship and a native of Russia, I would not cross that border. They can actually not allow you to leave the country if they want to, if you're a citizen of Russia. They're constantly talking about shutting the borders down for good like in USSR and requiring exit visas, during last year especially. Too much crime, cartels and now totalitarianism. Last time I visited cartel told me to pay to get my passport released timely. All kinds of crazy/restrictive/invasive requirements had been piled up by Putin during the last 10 years. I read their news daily and it gets sicker and sicker ever year. And people being actually arrested in thrown in jail, bank accounts blocked...for innocent social media posts.
But hey, there're people who like to live in China or Saudi Arabia too, you never know what's in one's head... "there're as many minds as there're heads" - a Russian saying. Another Russian saying: "A stream of fools never dries up"
 
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@aynrus - That's some solid info brother, thanks. You have to remember people are going to have biases when asking "is your area normal" - everyone wants to believe their area is normal. This is why I stopped asking that question and now use this resource which shows current movement levels vs. pre covid - https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/index.html?hl=en . It doesn't factor in masks but will generally give you more reliable answers than humans. The places you'd want to live in Russia, namely Moscow & St Pete, have just as much reduced movement as Europe, in practice they're on lockdown, but it does seem some places like Chelyabinsk, Omsk, etc are within +/- 10% of their pre covid levels, which is pretty close to normal. But winter is just getting started, they locked down before & will probably do it again. In April they were at Italy/France/lockdown levels of movement, which you can parse that data from the csv file.

Unfortunately guys, Europe is a lost cause. I found nowhere in Europe (w/a caveat) that has at least 90% of pre covid levels of movement, not even the Russian oblast of Belarus nor Sweden, the only places I found are some rural US counties, rural Sweden, a few states in Brazil (Mato Grosso do Sul, Arce, a few others), Bolivia lowlands, 1 or 2 states in Mexico & a whole lot of places in Africa. I like to use this metric more because it helps factor in the economic collapse, which you won't hear much about from any news/presidents/etc. For example, Tanzania - 0 restrictions/covid is fake/blah blah, however the pearl of Tanzania - Zanzibar, 90% of businesses are currently closed due to economic collapse. Net result is the same as covid lockdown - it'll still suck to be there.

As for Latin America - it's been the go to spot for centuries when "developed countries" start killing each other & need a new place to live in peace. The good thing about Latin America (and Africa too) is private security industry is very strong. The nicer private security colonies never really locked down & many openly advertise police/military aren't allowed to enter. There's a lot of this in sub saharan Africa too. We should continue to keep our eyes on countries with a strong private security sector & weak central government - Mexico, Paraguay, Bolivia, Brazil, Venezuela, Nicaragua. The problem is these places are quickly getting expensive.
 

fokker

Pelican
Now tell me how QR codes ain't required in Taiwan, Australia and China, and there was never a lock down there and 'bout these big ole pool parties, and how free it is there.... I'm sure there're sources that'd tell you that too. End of story.
We recently mandated QR codes in Victoria.
 

aynrus

Kingfisher
Regarding US rural counties - I've been moving freely through the US since the stuff started in March, and traveled around the whole country 3 times around by now. No camps here. And in summer, US campgrounds and resorts were full to the gills, I never seen anything like that, people were traveling like crazy this summer despite all the 'warnings' and 'stay at home' advisories, and everything seemed to be booked up. The real threat is possible upcoming vaccinations requirement.
 

the high

Kingfisher
What do you think about Africa?
Chinese are all over Africa, so soon enough major cities will go technocratic. Rwanda one of the fastest developing African economies has already started: Rwanda to start new cashless era after COVID-19

But many other places, the lack of development is a virtue for now. Living in Africa isn't for everyone though.

I believe rural America is your best bet right now.
 
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aynrus

Kingfisher
@aynrus - That's some solid info brother, thanks. You have to remember people are going to have biases when asking "is your area normal" - everyone wants to believe their area is normal. This is why I stopped asking that question and now use this resource which shows current movement levels vs. pre covid - https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/index.html?hl=en . It doesn't factor in masks but will generally give you more reliable answers than humans. The places you'd want to live in Russia, namely Moscow & St Pete, have just as much reduced movement as Europe, in practice they're on lockdown, but it does seem some places like Chelyabinsk, Omsk, etc are within +/- 10% of their pre covid levels, which is pretty close to normal. But winter is just getting started, they locked down before & will probably do it again. In April they were at Italy/France/lockdown levels of movement, which you can parse that data from the csv file.

Unfortunately guys, Europe is a lost cause. I found nowhere in Europe (w/a caveat) that has at least 90% of pre covid levels of movement, not even the Russian oblast of Belarus nor Sweden, the only places I found are some rural US counties, rural Sweden, a few states in Brazil (Mato Grosso do Sul, Arce, a few others), Bolivia lowlands, 1 or 2 states in Mexico & a whole lot of places in Africa. I like to use this metric more because it helps factor in the economic collapse, which you won't hear much about from any news/presidents/etc. For example, Tanzania - 0 restrictions/covid is fake/blah blah, however the pearl of Tanzania - Zanzibar, 90% of businesses are currently closed due to economic collapse. Net result is the same as covid lockdown - it'll still suck to be there.

As for Latin America - it's been the go to spot for centuries when "developed countries" start killing each other & need a new place to live in peace. The good thing about Latin America (and Africa too) is private security industry is very strong. The nicer private security colonies never really locked down & many openly advertise police/military aren't allowed to enter. There's a lot of this in sub saharan Africa too. We should continue to keep our eyes on countries with a strong private security sector & weak central government - Mexico, Paraguay, Bolivia, Brazil, Venezuela, Nicaragua. The problem is these places are quickly getting expensive.

I only like rural living and need 100% food independence which puts Moscow or SPB out of question. To me these ar crowded hellholes anyway. If things hit the fan,even in Moscow one would be fair game for all kinds of criminals, any moment. And the police is one with them, they're all corrupt there and work with cartels. I was robbed by ambulance crew in the 90s there and told not to report to the cops because I'd be a goner then. Seriously, anyone who thinks of moving to Russia permanently, should learn a bit about Black Realtors, for example. Lots of people were disappeared... Places like Chelyabinsk are just lawsless and I'd be much more worried about being murdered by criminals there than about any lockdown or vaccine, even.

Latin America, yes, been getting expeinsive and when I checked house and land prices in places like Paraguay and Argentina last year, they seemed to be grossly overpriced, with pricing levels approaching European (these were not favelas, though....I'm sure favelas and plywood shacks are more affordable)
 

Mountaineer

Pelican
Gold Member
1 or 2 states in Mexico & a whole lot of places in Africa. I like to use this metric more because it helps factor in the economic collapse, which you won't hear much about from any news/presidents/etc. For example, Tanzania - 0 restrictions/covid is fake/blah blah, however the pearl of Tanzania - Zanzibar, 90% of businesses are currently closed due to economic collapse. Net result is the same as covid lockdown - it'll still suck to be there.
Which states of Mexico are those? How do you see Tanzania in 2-3 years?
 
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