Called Off My Wedding

[rvlefty]

The difference in attitude seems like a deal breaker and I'm happy for you that you can civilly agree on that between the two of you.

I had some thoughts about your requirement on wanting to have 4-6 kids though. If you're working to support the family, do you think you can give enough of yourself in the remaining hours of your day when you aren't working to nurture and give love to 5-7 other humans (4-6 kids plus your wife)? I'm assuming here that you agree that it's important that a strong present father figure is an important in the development of raising children alongside having a present mother figure. Plus, factor in some leftover time to nurture YOURSELF (though fitness, hobbies, or whatever) so that you're in a good mental state to be a positive presence to your family too.

Just looking at the math it seems like a person would be spread pretty thin.

 

[Eusebius]

If one of the conservative Christian or semi-Christian groups, such as the Mormons or Amish, can somehow square the circle and recruit aggressively, we could be in for interesting times. Maybe the Mormons are best placed to do this, but they seem somewhat cucked, and their beliefs are even harder to swallow than mainstream Christianity.
But think about it
If am Amish type group existed, with a lot of infrastructure, it's own land and universities etc, and they said you are welcome to join and after a few years membership, vetting by elders and completion of education etc, we will give you subsidized land, housing, job opportunities, and access to our matchmaking services, how many men would join?

 

[Simeon_Strangelight]

If one of the conservative Christian or semi-Christian groups, such as the Mormons or Amish, can somehow square the circle and recruit aggressively, we could be in for interesting times. Maybe the Mormons are best placed to do this, but they seem somewhat cucked, and their beliefs are even harder to swallow than mainstream Christianity.
But think about it
If am Amish type group existed, with a lot of infrastructure, it's own land and universities etc, and they said you are welcome to join and after a few years membership, vetting by elders and completion of education etc, we will give you subsidized land, housing, job opportunities, and access to our matchmaking services, how many men would join?

My prediction is that if the Amish were some kind of futurustic Christian offshoot who instead of wanting to stay in the 1880s would want to accept all positive technologies possible without any ones that impact their moral Christian way of life - then the Amish might be the biggest religion and tribe in the US by now with millions of converts. Essentially they would have to censor pretty much all Hollywood entertainment and most educational fields, create their own advanced universities while only trading with the "English" and the "Asians" to get technological upgrades. Though my guess is that such a sect would become too dangerous to the real elite - they would rather nuke them or done something else to them.

The funny part is that technology can serve sane society models well - even enforce them. Though it would cut short with absolute liberalism since you simply cannot even allow for apps like Tinder - unless you make it Marriage-Tinder and add an option that necessitates consent and approval of both parents for the first date.

 

[BlueMark]

The difference in attitude seems like a deal breaker and I'm happy for you that you can civilly agree on that between the two of you.

I had some thoughts about your requirement on wanting to have 4-6 kids though. If you're working to support the family, do you think you can give enough of yourself in the remaining hours of your day when you aren't working to nurture and give love to 5-7 other humans (4-6 kids plus your wife)? I'm assuming here that you agree that it's important that a strong present father figure is an important in the development of raising children alongside having a present mother figure. Plus, factor in some leftover time to nurture YOURSELF (though fitness, hobbies, or whatever) so that you're in a good mental state to be a positive presence to your family too.

Just looking at the math it seems like a person would be spread pretty thin.

This is the tradcon fallacy of looking at the 1950's nuclear family model of community as the gold standard for traditionalism.

In pre-industrial societies, the father wasn't the only masculine figure involved in raising of children. Grandparents, uncles, community elders, etc. It wasn't just one man's burden to bear.

All that has been lost in modern society and the tradcons don't even realize it.

 

[Bienvenuto]

We have been civil about the whole thing and spent the last two days talking about what to do.
She said at one point that I don't appreciate the things that she values most about herself and she probably doesn't appreciate the things I value most about myself.

The Thrill had Gone.

Girls don't say these meaningless platitudes and act all philosophical when they're desperate to stay in a relationship with/ in the bed of.. the guy they're with.

Sounds like she wanted out... but in typical female fashion wanted you to take responsibility and make all the decisions
and so she dragged her feet passive-aggressively until you felt you had no choice anymore.
Probably had that exit strategy planned out for a while.

As others have said, you are much better off without her.

 

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

Would be interesting to have a follow up in 10-15 years to see how this woman's life turned out. There's usually about 3 scenarios for women like this that I can think of.

In best case she'll mature a bit and settle for a nice guy before she hits 30 and have a few kids. In worst case she refuse to do that and keeps dating cocky confident guys (badboys), increase her notch count, is unable to form long term relationships and will panic as she's about to turn 40 and might end up with no kids and become a lonely hog.

Or she'll wait until like 33 and then has to lower her standards significantly to the point that she'll eventually end up divorce the guy she has kids with.

 

[Laner]

If one of the conservative Christian or semi-Christian groups, such as the Mormons or Amish, can somehow square the circle and recruit aggressively, we could be in for interesting times. Maybe the Mormons are best placed to do this, but they seem somewhat cucked, and their beliefs are even harder to swallow than mainstream Christianity.
But think about it
If am Amish type group existed, with a lot of infrastructure, it's own land and universities etc, and they said you are welcome to join and after a few years membership, vetting by elders and completion of education etc, we will give you subsidized land, housing, job opportunities, and access to our matchmaking services, how many men would join?

My prediction is that if the Amish were some kind of futurustic Christian offshoot who instead of wanting to stay in the 1880s would want to accept all positive technologies possible without any ones that impact their moral Christian way of life - then the Amish might be the biggest religion and tribe in the US by now with millions of converts. Essentially they would have to censor pretty much all Hollywood entertainment and most educational fields, create their own advanced universities while only trading with the "English" and the "Asians" to get technological upgrades. Though my guess is that such a sect would become too dangerous to the real elite - they would rather nuke them or done something else to them.

The funny part is that technology can serve sane society models well - even enforce them. Though it would cut short with absolute liberalism since you simply cannot even allow for apps like Tinder - unless you make it Marriage-Tinder and add an option that necessitates consent and approval of both parents for the first date.

Interesting.

I remember reading about pentagon scenarios where an EMP was detonated over the eastern US. In their predictions it was total breakdown of civilization in less than a few months, with mortality rates into the 90% after a year. Except for the Amish areas, where they endured and even thrived.

I grew up in an area with lots of Mennonite and Hutterite collectives. I am friends with quite a few Mennonites, and even have a Mennonite flag They definitely pick and choose their technologies, and the elders discuss at long length which ones will turn their youth from God and therefore ban them. My bible camp growing up bordered on a Hutterite colony and we would have a baseball game with them during our camp. For the most part the kids were pretty normal in regards to education. They are very leery of us, and they are taught to only have superficial relationships.

A bit off topic but I could see that if things keep going down these insane paths that a Mennonite colony somewhere nice could be a nice option for hardworking young man. If they would have you.

 

[General Mayhem]

If one of the conservative Christian or semi-Christian groups, such as the Mormons or Amish, can somehow square the circle and recruit aggressively, we could be in for interesting times. Maybe the Mormons are best placed to do this, but they seem somewhat cucked, and their beliefs are even harder to swallow than mainstream Christianity.
But think about it
If am Amish type group existed, with a lot of infrastructure, it's own land and universities etc, and they said you are welcome to join and after a few years membership, vetting by elders and completion of education etc, we will give you subsidized land, housing, job opportunities, and access to our matchmaking services, how many men would join?

My prediction is that if the Amish were some kind of futurustic Christian offshoot who instead of wanting to stay in the 1880s would want to accept all positive technologies possible without any ones that impact their moral Christian way of life - then the Amish might be the biggest religion and tribe in the US by now with millions of converts. Essentially they would have to censor pretty much all Hollywood entertainment and most educational fields, create their own advanced universities while only trading with the "English" and the "Asians" to get technological upgrades. Though my guess is that such a sect would become too dangerous to the real elite - they would rather nuke them or done something else to them.

The funny part is that technology can serve sane society models well - even enforce them. Though it would cut short with absolute liberalism since you simply cannot even allow for apps like Tinder - unless you make it Marriage-Tinder and add an option that necessitates consent and approval of both parents for the first date.

Interesting.

I remember reading about pentagon scenarios where an EMP was detonated over the eastern US. In their predictions it was total breakdown of civilization in less than a few months, with mortality rates into the 90% after a year. Except for the Amish areas, where they endured and even thrived.

I grew up in an area with lots of Mennonite and Hutterite collectives. I am friends with quite a few Mennonites, and even have a Mennonite flag They definitely pick and choose their technologies, and the elders discuss at long length which ones will turn their youth from God and therefore ban them. My bible camp growing up bordered on a Hutterite colony and we would have a baseball game with them during our camp. For the most part the kids were pretty normal in regards to education. They are very leery of us, and they are taught to only have superficial relationships.

A bit off topic but I could see that if things keep going down these insane paths that a Mennonite colony somewhere nice could be a nice option for hardworking young man. If they would have you.

This sounds almost like what how conservative political party should choose to steer their people.

I think the biggest difference (without knowing much about the mennonite or amish) is that they don't worship the economy.

 

[...]

So you didn’t take care of her baby rabies and then complain about her not wanting as many kids, ok.......

 

[Dr. Howard]

I just got a call from my friend. Apparently his wife reached out to my ex to say she was there for her if she wanted to talk and they had a long conversation.

My friend told me his wife came back into the house in tears and said my ex was a bitch. He said he didn't get all the details of the conversation except that they talked about some of the compromises and his wife said that she wasn't going to change. She also told the wife that the only people who come to religion are crack heads, which is a pretty sad thing to say to someone who made you the godmother to one of her children. These two girls used to be thick as thieves.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? - 2Cor 6:14

You made the right call.

I was also going to post this, especially with the extra information that the General provided.

She is currently her own God, akin to what Lucifer preaches. If she can't submit to the Lord then she definitely cannot submit to her husband. She would see the OP's worship of God as weak, as he's not putting himself first. All bad. Its tough to be married to someone that puts themselves first.

Its like I told a buddy of mine that is currently going through a Divorce and quite upset about signs that he may have missed and wants to save his soon to be ex wife from the nutty path she is pursuing.

I said something like "You can't walk her path for her, its between her and God if she wants to turn away from him. You just need to keep walking your walk with God, and be satisfied with that."

 

[idolatry]

Sounds like you waited too long to cash out of the game. Guys here should take note. This doesn't have to involve a mid-life religious crisis, it's not rocket science.

 

[nuevayork]

It looks like either you weren't ready for marriage or you didn't really want to marry this girl. All those are minor reasons that would have been ironed out by time.

 

[Repo]

Women will pick up on if your actions dont match the game you talk. As Cattle Rustler said, it sounds like you werent backing up the values you were talking by delaying kids so long. The longer this incongruency lasts, the more her attraction for you will suffer, and it sounds like it got to the point where she no longer conformed to all of your stated values that you werent following through on. Chalk it up as lesson learned.

To add, our brains are still developing till around 25 or so, so she was soft clay the entire time you were together. You lost out to other influences.

I think ultimately there are 2 schools of thought:

1: you picked the wrong woman
2: you didnt influence/lead her enough to be the woman you wanted

I'm in the latter camp.

 

[True Balla]

Honestly, I think another component is that she needed friends, and you could have helped provide them if you wanted. You had your one friends' wife that was a good influence and thats it. She also moved away, which is when this girl got worse. You're gonna have to pick up hobbies and make friends, and place friends into her life. The reason she went out with her work colleagues is because she didn't have other friends. Women are influenced easily, and people in general are the blend of the 5 people closest to them. When these people started to become her work friends, she is naturally going to steer towards working harder and spending more and more time with them.

It seems like you didn't have many friends either and were not putting in the effort to cultivate them

 

[Roosh]

You didn't talk about God at all but sounds like she's just entering her rebellion stage. Wanting to put your baby in daycare after 8 weeks is inhumane.

I would be careful about choosing the "run away" option. That won't make things better. The next year or two will be hard, and there isn't much you can do about it.

 

[General Mayhem]

You didn't talk about God at all but sounds like she's just entering her rebellion stage. Wanting to put your baby in daycare after 8 weeks is inhumane.

I would be careful about choosing the "run away" option. That won't make things better. The next year or two will be hard, and there isn't much you can do abou it.

I didn't mention god directly in the OP but it was discussed in some of the replies.

Dr. Howard said it best on the last page of the thread, "She is currently her own God, akin to what Lucifer preaches."

I thought about the run away option and I think you are right. The only path forward seems to be to go on living and building the life I want. If I focus on that I believe the things will turn out fine.

God puts people in ours life and takes them away to serve a purpose. I have faith in that.

 

[budoslavic]

...
Everything was full steam ahead towards marriage and kids. She had baby fever after spending time with one of my good friend's wife and their kids. Seeing her around kids was the happiest I ever saw her. Things were looking good.

Then, she got a new job working for the same woman who helped her out in the beginning. The job sucked her in and she became sort of a workaholic and started rolling in a circle with her boss and a few other middle aged women who were divorced, some remarried. They all had kids but for the most part the kids sounded fucked up. They were the type who always influenced her to go out to happy hours which was annoying to me.
...
I think eventually the influence of work and friends overtook the baby fever. The good influence of my friend's wife was on the other side of the country. Things came to a head.
...

GM, I am glad that you decided to write and shared your post. The bold parts I can relate to, specifically the type of environment and friends that a woman associate with.

If she chose to keep associating herself with those type of female friends instead of having (or submit to) God in her life, then it is a sign that marriage won't work as she's taken a different path and purpose in life that you have no control over.

Consider it a blessing in disguise.

 

[Enoch]

Stefan Molyneux has a lot of great content about how bad daycare is for babies. Child abuse is not too strong of a word for it.

The fact that she wanted to put her baby in daycare to go work for a corporation is all you needed to know.

 

[tothepoint]

She sounds like a unicorn to me: slim, attractive, no debt, no whoring on social media, LTR that lasted through college where there is a lot of temptation, likes children, wants a low key intimate wedding, ditched her friends for you. Some flaws due to bad parenting but good luck finding another one like this in 2019 America...

I feel like this is about you losing the frame rather than negative outside influences. You became lazy and she slipped away. She tamed you and now she's looking for a new challenge.

 

[Rifian -rebel]

This girl hates religion and God. Do you want to marry Lucifer ?

I think that a believer man can not, despite all his efforts, feel in peace with a woman who not only rejects his beliefs, but rejects the mere idea of belief.

There can't be no more unicorn or whatsoever at this point, despite our perceived state of the market.

She simply grew up in the total opposite direction than you did, and I suspect her dark side to be far greater than what her natural agreableness let her show you...

I fully support your decision brother ! Your gutt instinct saved you. You will find better.