Called Off My Wedding

wwtl

 
Banned
wwtl said:
loremipsum said:
DannyAlberta said:
General Mayhem said:
I think any guy who wants any semblance of a traditional relationship has to fight hard against the negative influences from modern society and from a girls friends. However, you can't do that alone. You need friends with wives, kids, and strong marriages that are good influences to surround your wife.

When someone on this Forum actually figures out how you can do this and win (assuming it's even possible outside of a crazy isolationist cult), they will have hacked modern mating life. I'm not sure it's even possible.

Funny how this forum that once was about collecting notches has almost collectively come to the conclusion that traditional relationships are the way to go.
Yes, we have Game that the average bluepilled guy does not have, but to quote OP in another thread
If you believe in god, do you really think he is going to deliver a virgin just because you had a change of ideology?
.
It may be just harder for us.

I asked God for that traditional relationship two years ago and what I see now is that I'm getting tested to stay chaste with increasing difficulty levels.

I fully expect to get presented with more and more unbelievably easy opportunities to score notches which I might have to let go to actually get to the prize. The shape of the latter has been clearly communicated to me during the last two months.

All that while being at peak SMV for a bachelor with the window closing in less than a decade. That requires some faith I can tell you.

Since this weekend I have the full picture how God intends me to handle this:

As a man on peak SMV instead of giving in to female desire and fornicate spinning plates until I hit the wall, use the full leverage to vet and lock down one young fertile wife with a high sex drive by leading her religiously until she is completely into you.

This turn of events sounds kinda absurd from a degenerate Western perspective, where marriage turned into a primarily financial transaction of old people. But the Lord will manage to pull this off.
 

General Mayhem

Kingfisher
No More Mr. Soy Boy said:
evilbuttmunch said:
Thank you for sharing, but you sound like a naive moron, too black-pilled to appreciate what you have. You spent five years together, and claim that the last few months have caused you to drift apart because you were fixing up a house. You sound eternally ungrateful to a woman who is doing much more compromising than you are. Most women are not willing to compromise like that, and you've decided to discard something like five years of a relationship, and marriage in your 20s with what sounds like a mostly great woman, for the rare possibility that you'll find someone even better.

If she enjoyed work that much, it's because the rest of her life was boring. That's YOUR fault.

So he's missing the chance to marriage in his 20's?

Give me a break. It surprises me just how many here who seem to come from a scarcity mindset and think it's best to just stick with a woman like that who is clearly too much of a sheep to choose a meaningless career over prioritising a family with an intelligent, masculine and traditional conservative man with some great values. I tell you what, THAT is rare today and something she'll have to regret later in life.

And that in itself should tell everyone everything they need to know.
It's better to not have kids than having kids with the wrong woman but so many men are putting up with so much shit nowadays so the boundaries have moved so far off that we are now calling a man a moron for not staying with a woman who shows that he's not priority number one or even number two.

There are still places in Eastern Europe where OP can find traditional women who would never say the crap that came out of her mouth. It's not a man's job to convince a woman to choose family over career, a good woman would choose that path anyway regardless of some new friends from work.

Her comment on religious people as only being a bunch crackheads probably says something about her morality system too. That is a more important aspect with a woman than if you're able to crack non politically correct jokes with her, if she's "very good at saving money" or wants a small wedding.

wwtl said:
wwtl said:
loremipsum said:
DannyAlberta said:
General Mayhem said:
I think any guy who wants any semblance of a traditional relationship has to fight hard against the negative influences from modern society and from a girls friends. However, you can't do that alone. You need friends with wives, kids, and strong marriages that are good influences to surround your wife.

When someone on this Forum actually figures out how you can do this and win (assuming it's even possible outside of a crazy isolationist cult), they will have hacked modern mating life. I'm not sure it's even possible.

Funny how this forum that once was about collecting notches has almost collectively come to the conclusion that traditional relationships are the way to go.
Yes, we have Game that the average bluepilled guy does not have, but to quote OP in another thread
If you believe in god, do you really think he is going to deliver a virgin just because you had a change of ideology?
.
It may be just harder for us.

I asked God for that traditional relationship two years ago and what I see now is that I'm getting tested to stay chaste with increasing difficulty levels.

I fully expect to get presented with more and more unbelievably easy opportunities to score notches which I might have to let go to actually get to the prize. The shape of the latter has been clearly communicated to me during the last two months.

All that while being at peak SMV for a bachelor with the window closing in less than a decade. That requires some faith I can tell you.

Since this weekend I have the full picture how God intends me to handle this:

As a man on peak SMV instead of giving in to female desire and fornicate spinning plates until I hit the wall, use the full leverage to vet and lock down one young fertile wife with a high sex drive by leading her religiously until she is completely into you.

This turn of events sounds kinda absurd from a degenerate Western perspective, where marriage turned into a primarily financial transaction of old people. But the Lord will manage to pull this off.

I hope to see some infield reports on this type of activity on this new generation of the forum.

"This girl at the farmers market gave me a ton of IOI's, my game was tight and my logistics were good. We went back to my flat to look at some books and she tried to initiate sex and I told her I don't fornicate casually. She had no idea how to handle this rejection. Now she won't stop texting me."

No idea how this plays out in real life.
 

wwtl

 
Banned
General Mayhem said:
wwtl said:
wwtl said:
loremipsum said:
DannyAlberta said:
When someone on this Forum actually figures out how you can do this and win (assuming it's even possible outside of a crazy isolationist cult), they will have hacked modern mating life. I'm not sure it's even possible.

Funny how this forum that once was about collecting notches has almost collectively come to the conclusion that traditional relationships are the way to go.
Yes, we have Game that the average bluepilled guy does not have, but to quote OP in another thread
If you believe in god, do you really think he is going to deliver a virgin just because you had a change of ideology?
.
It may be just harder for us.

I asked God for that traditional relationship two years ago and what I see now is that I'm getting tested to stay chaste with increasing difficulty levels.

I fully expect to get presented with more and more unbelievably easy opportunities to score notches which I might have to let go to actually get to the prize. The shape of the latter has been clearly communicated to me during the last two months.

All that while being at peak SMV for a bachelor with the window closing in less than a decade. That requires some faith I can tell you.

Since this weekend I have the full picture how God intends me to handle this:

As a man on peak SMV instead of giving in to female desire and fornicate spinning plates until I hit the wall, use the full leverage to vet and lock down one young fertile wife with a high sex drive by leading her religiously until she is completely into you.

This turn of events sounds kinda absurd from a degenerate Western perspective, where marriage turned into a primarily financial transaction of old people. But the Lord will manage to pull this off.

I hope to see some infield reports on this type of activity on this new generation of the forum.

"This girl at the farmers market gave me a ton of IOI's, my game was tight and my logistics were good. We went back to my flat to look at some books and she tried to initiate sex and I told her I don't fornicate casually. She had no idea how to handle this rejection. Now she won't stop texting me."

No idea how this plays out in real life.

This looks like a low value mindset to me. You seem to view girls as high value trophies which need to be acquired with "tight" game and kept happy by fornicating with them.

But being the prize means the girl who is madly into you (because of your ability to lead her) will get extremely creative to get what she really wants and desires. And this kind of girl is the only kind you actually want to vet from.

Girls who don't desire you and view men as accessories are a waste of time. All carousel riders who move on the second they hear "no fornication" are a complete waste of time as well.

Now the even harder task is to hold that no-fornication frame until marriage. Most men fall here and earn the consequences: She loses respect and everything falls apart.
 

MajorStyles

Pelican
Catholic
A lot of men in the Manosphere think "She's 24/25...she should realize that her fertility is almost up and run to the alter." Nothing could be further from the truth. Women know that they can have children in their thirties and even early fourties without complications (especially in this era of modern medicine). So they don't buy the idea that their opportunity to procreate is over in their early twenties. My wife had a child at 35 and 39 and both are fine (knock on wood).

A woman in her early thirties is less likely to play games, since she realizes that her window is closer so to speak. That being said, many Western women in their early 30s are already damaged beyond repair.
 

Augustus_Principe

Woodpecker
MajorStyles said:
A lot of men in the Manosphere think "She's 24/25...she should realize that her fertility is almost up and run to the alter." Nothing could be further from the truth. Women know that they can have children in their thirties and even early fourties without complications (especially in this era of modern medicine). So they don't buy the idea that their opportunity to procreate is over in their early twenties. My wife had a child at 35 and 39 and both are fine (knock on wood).

A woman in her early thirties is less likely to play games, since she realizes that her window is closer so to speak. That being said, many Western women in their early 30s are already damaged beyond repair.

You're confusing women's delusion with reality. Your case of your wife having kids late (God bless her) without any assistance, unfortunately does not negate the reality that women's fertility starts to dramatically drop starting from the age of 30. Lots of graphs, studies and news articles on this that I wont bother posting, but it is common knowledge.

Fertility drops with age. Now, pair that with women taking Birth Control for 2 decades, having casual sex, catching STDs, drinking copious amounts of alcohol like a drunkard, having abortions, taking Plan B multiple times throughout her life, a crap western diet filled with hormone disruptors, and you have the fertility crisis we're facing today. Women are more and more, facing challenges of being unable to get pregnant, and IVF has a very low success rate, so no "modern medicine" does not allow women to push pregnancy for a later time.

Sure, we all know of a women or two who had kids in their late 30's and even 40, but those women did not have to face the cultural and environmental factors that disrupt their fertility that women do today. Usually, the women in these anecdotal stories are late genxrs, Boomers and older.

My point is that it is delusional for women to think they can delay childbearing past their 20s, and we have the media and culture as a whole to thank for that.
 

loremipsum

Kingfisher
I'd be interested to know how birth control affects fertility.
It's pretty brutal in terms of what it does in woman's body. Wouldn't be surprised if it somehow lowers fertility.
 

Augustus_Principe

Woodpecker
If you try and goolag "Does Birth control affect fertility", you wont find any studies done by White Lab Coats trying to prove that it does. You'll see things like "Oh no, as long as you're off of it for 2-3 months, you'll be back to normal!" "no, scientist have concluded BC does not negatively affect fertility" etc.

I mean, it's simple logic to see how taking a drug to prevent pregnancy will affect a woman's fertility...especially if a woman has been taking it for over 10 years.

What these BC makers are doing as of late is quietly reducing the amount of estrogen in their BC, as more and more women are suffering side effects. In the end, I don't need any study proving that BC lowers female fertility and i'd rather err on side of caution. Seeing how women are having a hard time getting pregnant like never before in history, i'll be fine to draw my conclusion without "solid evidence". It's like Alex Jones being right all along about our water "turning the frogs gay".
 

Jaszczurka

Robin
Catholic
Captain GH and Dr. Howard are adding an important element to the discussion and I want to respond to that to fill in more of the picture.

I can't jump right to saying that this was 100% the right move. I probably won't know for a while. There's a voice in my head telling me this could be a mistake and maybe I could win the war if I kept at it.

But, at the same time I've been working on this relationship for almost 5 years. I agree that you have to train a mold a modern woman through trials and hard work because I did it to some extent. There were plenty of times I wanted to walk out but didn't. One of the things I valued most about the relationship is that we both seemed so intent on making it work.

We did get in several fights about her friends and she couldn't see why I didn't like them or thought they were bad influences. She used to come home from work in tears and bitch about how awful they were to work with constantly. No matter how I broke it down she insisted they were her friends.

Like Dr. Howard pointed out, if the follower won't submit, there are problems. In a lot of aspects my girl did submit, but obviously not entirely. She was happy to submit to things especially if she could see the benefits. I got her into intermittent fasting and she got skinnier, she got off birth control and her energy and mood improved, etc.

But, at a certain point the woman has to give up her ego-pleasing dreams to focus on kids, even if you are only having a few of them. I don't think only having 3 kids would have broke my heart. I never even said she could never work again, just tone it back while the kids are young. But, my girl wasn't ready to give up the satisfaction she got from work for anything. Neither could she see how she could gain that satisfaction through other means. Maybe I could have gotten her to see that but waiting to see if having a kid would change that is a huge gamble.

I think she understood that men and women aren't equal in a physical and emotional sense. At the same time she was unwilling to give up the part of her ego that was satisfied by work. Her ego in general got to be a problem. That's why she would say things like how she didn't need religion to tell her how to live her life, or that she hated the priest who was going to marry us and thought that discussions with him, or spiritual life in general were wastes of time. I know she tried to get with the program but in a way I think that broke her.

I talked to one of my close friends who got married by the same priest and he told me about a time his wife wanted to talk some issues out with him after their first child was born. That story just made me think about how it was the wife's openness to listen to something bigger than herself was what made that work.

At one point during these last few discussions with my girl I asked if she believed in anything bigger than herself and she told me she didn't. It's not that she doesn't believe in god but that she didn't care to consider it. That was pretty telling for me.

That's part of the issue with modernism in general. Nobody wants to stop and consider anything bigger than themselves because life is good. The paychecks come in, you can buy the toys you want, and have kids and a healthy family without ever considering the bigger picture. Another thing I hate is that even if the woman wants to try stepping away from work the corporate machine is setup to make them believe that if they take a break for a while to raise kids no one will ever hire them again.

I've been married for 16 years. Went through a lot of these trials myself. I'm thinking of starting a discussion just on marriage tips/experiences themselves but for now, exploring the forum. Read the whole thread.

I'm researching marriage counselors. The challenge, of course, is getting a marriage counselor who will not make the modernism situation worse. Church is one avenue (We belong to two) so I'm hoping they can help. Looking on the forum to see if anyone else has experience with this.

When discussing things with my wife, she has her opinion, backed often by her "herd" of friends and then there's me. It's like me going to battle against a whole army at times. I'm only human. Sometimes I can be defensive and this can cloud my judgement. In Poland, before one can marry, they apparently have to go through PRE marital counseling, which I think is wise. It will help ferret out incompatible couples and avoid divorce.

In Eastern Europe, I was told, there is a stigma against going to a psychiatrist. It marks one as "crazy" and therefore untrustworthy. Some of this stigma I think exists in the states as well. It's common to hear "You're nuts! Go see a shrink!" I went to a psychiatrist for occupational stress and the guy was nice, but didn't have a lot of good tips for how to deal with my stress at work, sadly. And that guy was a neutral professional. Like auto mechanics and doctors, it can be hard to find a good one. After all, in this culture of consumerism and strong leftist ideology, even the counselors are awash in it.

Your friend's wife apparently gave you a good followup that your wife may have been on the path to cultural hedonism or perhaps, now that you're out of the picture, there wasn't anyone left to help guide her away from it so she fell in. I followed up on previous exes I had and they also appear to have been like the moth to the flame. Most of them realized a few years later that they had let a good one go and reached out to me, but I had already moved on. You'll probably be in a similar boat (my guess.)

As you said, we are "fighting" the culture, so to speak, because in conversations I had with older folks (and these conversations were 30 years ago, so that takes this back to the 1940s!!!), women were better gatekeepers of relationships than today. It sounds amazing, but back then, men didn't have to be these superhuman creatures figuring out game, "networking", and such. Her family circle/friends were largely an asset in keeping her grounded but she was also part of the "herd" doing just that. I'm curious: What's your friend's wife like? Is she exceptionally grounded?

One observation/thought about your story (thanks for sharing): Women particularly, but also men, can sometimes get caught up in "career". They call it "family values", not "career values." When I work, I remind my wife that this is my "career" meaning I have to think in terms of my value in my profession, but I also am aware that my "career" exists to serve my family, not the other way around. My income is largely earmarked for my, and the family's, survival: the mortgage, the bills, and keeping up fed and looked after. I'm not the sole breadwinner, and my wife's income does help, but I'm the difference between us living a comfortable life versus in a two family tenement and she appears aware of that. I think that's helped a lot in keeping our marriage together.

I'm chuckling a bit with the COVID crisis in that due to the stores being closed, there's a lot less materialism to suck women in. Yeah, they can shop online and such, but there's less of the shiny-object dopamine rush in public. Do we really need to go out to restaurants so much?

It's been a while since this thread is active and I hope you're doing well.
 
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Rogerto

Pigeon
Catholic
I debated whether or not to share this story but I feel like it will be useful for a lot of guys on here.

I got engaged back in November and just called off the wedding set two weeks from now. We had been together just shy of 5 years. She came from a conservative background, parents stayed together, and also put her through private catholic school.

When I met her she was 19 and had recently dropped out of school to start working in corporate full time. Her dad got her a job working for some lady who sort of took her under her wing and she ran with it from there. Because of this she had no debt and was very good with saving money.

We started living together years ago, went through a couple apartments and then moved into her grandparent's old house to help her dad renovate it. I got along great with her parents and could talk as freely about politics as I do online bashing immigrants, tranny freaks, even jews.

Everything was full steam ahead towards marriage and kids. She had baby fever after spending time with one of my good friend's wife and their kids. Seeing her around kids was the happiest I ever saw her. Things were looking good.

Then, she got a new job working for the same woman who helped her out in the beginning. The job sucked her in and she became sort of a workaholic and started rolling in a circle with her boss and a few other middle aged women who were divorced, some remarried. They all had kids but for the most part the kids sounded fucked up. They were the type who always influenced her to go out to happy hours which was annoying to me.

The friends and the job started to sow some division and I convinced her to get a different job. However, that didn't really solve the issue. She still maintained contact with the old group of friends and would hang out with them from time to time.

I think eventually the influence of work and friends overtook the baby fever. The good influence of my friend's wife was on the other side of the country. Things came to a head. She said she only wanted one or two kids but would compromise on 3, and wouldn't stay home with them beyond the 8 weeks of maternity leave the company gives. This was a big step back from the conversations we had before that of having 4-6 kids.

Part of the issue is that throughout the relationship my values have gotten much more conservative. Things I would have been ok with a few years ago aren't ok anymore. I think if you are going to be in a committed relationship as a woman you shouldn't be going out and drinking apart from your husband.

I think that kids need more than 8 weeks of the mother's care before getting kicked off to the sitter. More and more it just seems crazy to outsource the raising of your kids. But, her opinion was that it's better to have the extra cash she gets from working and that she wouldn't give up the satisfaction she gets from her job. People always say that a woman's attitude changes after kids but you can't bank on that to happen.

I also pushed to get married in the church even though it wasn't what she wanted. She tried to go along with it but in the end I think it broke her a little bit. She wanted to do a destination wedding with just our parents which I thought was retarded compared to having the whole family there to have a real wedding.

I will admit that I neglected the relationship on some level to focus on this house I was remodeling with her dad. I should have made sure we were getting out often enough to do fun shit together but I just wanted to get the house to a point where we could live in it so I put the blinders on and just worked.

We have been civil about the whole thing and spent the last two days talking about what to do. Whether or not we would both be compromising too much to be happy. She said at one point that I don't appreciate the things that she values most about herself and she probably doesn't appreciate the things I value most about myself.

That was true. I don't give a shit about her career. I get that she doesn't feel like she can't come home and talk about some great thing she did at work but I just don't give a fuck. I like that she makes money but beyond that it means nothing. She always hated the women's empowerment bullshit at work and wasn't that type. She just really derived a lot of satisfaction from working. She doesn't appreciate the side of me that is long-winded and philosophical. I made peace with that a long time ago. We all know women aren't the best outlet for that type of discussion.

I think any guy who wants any semblance of a traditional relationship has to fight hard against the negative influences from modern society and from a girls friends. However, you can't do that alone. You need friends with wives, kids, and strong marriages that are good influences to surround your wife.

In the end it feels like I fought against modernism and lost, at least this round. I influenced her in a lot of ways that made her what I wanted, long hair, in shape, off birth control, even cultivated a little redneck in her, but in the end she bucked it. I didn't have enough firepower on my side.

She wasn't big into social media. No slutty instagram photos. No beta orbiters feeding her likes. She could never see why I hated shit like orange is the new black and lizzo songs. I knew she wasn't totally free from the influence of modern culture but I thought I got her far enough away and that was good enough.

Part of the problem is that she never took any time to shut off the noise and just reflect on life. She seemed allergic to it.

Even as I write this part of me questions if the compromises would have been worth it. She was still better than the vast majority of modern women. She never made me question whether or not I had to worry about another guy in her life. I was it ever since the start when she ditched every single one of her friends for me. Together we would have had a shitload of money and never had to worry about being poor. In the end I didn't think that was worth the cost of having someone else raise my kids and having to compete with the influence of this job and friends I hated.

So now I'm stepping back into the unknown. I've got to move out of this house, don't know where to. My job will let me work 100% remote so I could get out of the city if I wanted. My parents and extended family live in a town of about 20k a few hours outside the city. My first thought is to move back there for a while and figure out what to do. Maybe I will come back to the city but maybe not. I don't know what the quality of women is like in that town. I do know what the women are like in the city and plan to steer clear of that.

It's a tough situation because I really enjoyed being in a committed relationship. To me, it was way better than the life I had before that. Having multiple sluts are is fun, but one slut was better. Honestly, I'm not really excited to be single again. I don't feel like meeting anyone. Don't want to drink. Just want some time alone. That will probably change.

It's not lost on me that falling in love in the beginning is the fun part, getting to know her, that moment when she looks down at your lips a little too long and you realize you got her hooked. However, building a life with someone and all the adventures that come with that has proved to be even better.

I'm not going to attempt to extract a list of lessons learned right now so read this for what it is and maybe find something useful. I'm fully aware I probably could have done certain things to steer the relationship on a better course, maybe avoid this altogether.

The one thing I will say is that it reinforces the opinion that I already had that trying to have a traditional relationships puts you in a full on fight against the modern world. It's like a war where the enemy is all around you with their degenerate propaganda threatening to destroy what you are building. I don't say that to steer people away from relationships. I hate doomers. Just know what you are up against.

At some point I might revisit this and add some of the lessons but at this point I'm burnt out on it. For the first time in my life I've got nothing holding me anywhere. I am going to buy an enclosed trailer to put my shit in, hitch up to my truck and hit the road.
I debated whether or not to share this story but I feel like it will be useful for a lot of guys on here.

I got engaged back in November and just called off the wedding set two weeks from now. We had been together just shy of 5 years. She came from a conservative background, parents stayed together, and also put her through private catholic school.

When I met her she was 19 and had recently dropped out of school to start working in corporate full time. Her dad got her a job working for some lady who sort of took her under her wing and she ran with it from there. Because of this she had no debt and was very good with saving money.

We started living together years ago, went through a couple apartments and then moved into her grandparent's old house to help her dad renovate it. I got along great with her parents and could talk as freely about politics as I do online bashing immigrants, tranny freaks, even jews.

Everything was full steam ahead towards marriage and kids. She had baby fever after spending time with one of my good friend's wife and their kids. Seeing her around kids was the happiest I ever saw her. Things were looking good.

Then, she got a new job working for the same woman who helped her out in the beginning. The job sucked her in and she became sort of a workaholic and started rolling in a circle with her boss and a few other middle aged women who were divorced, some remarried. They all had kids but for the most part the kids sounded fucked up. They were the type who always influenced her to go out to happy hours which was annoying to me.

The friends and the job started to sow some division and I convinced her to get a different job. However, that didn't really solve the issue. She still maintained contact with the old group of friends and would hang out with them from time to time.

I think eventually the influence of work and friends overtook the baby fever. The good influence of my friend's wife was on the other side of the country. Things came to a head. She said she only wanted one or two kids but would compromise on 3, and wouldn't stay home with them beyond the 8 weeks of maternity leave the company gives. This was a big step back from the conversations we had before that of having 4-6 kids.

Part of the issue is that throughout the relationship my values have gotten much more conservative. Things I would have been ok with a few years ago aren't ok anymore. I think if you are going to be in a committed relationship as a woman you shouldn't be going out and drinking apart from your husband.

I think that kids need more than 8 weeks of the mother's care before getting kicked off to the sitter. More and more it just seems crazy to outsource the raising of your kids. But, her opinion was that it's better to have the extra cash she gets from working and that she wouldn't give up the satisfaction she gets from her job. People always say that a woman's attitude changes after kids but you can't bank on that to happen.

I also pushed to get married in the church even though it wasn't what she wanted. She tried to go along with it but in the end I think it broke her a little bit. She wanted to do a destination wedding with just our parents which I thought was retarded compared to having the whole family there to have a real wedding.

I will admit that I neglected the relationship on some level to focus on this house I was remodeling with her dad. I should have made sure we were getting out often enough to do fun shit together but I just wanted to get the house to a point where we could live in it so I put the blinders on and just worked.

We have been civil about the whole thing and spent the last two days talking about what to do. Whether or not we would both be compromising too much to be happy. She said at one point that I don't appreciate the things that she values most about herself and she probably doesn't appreciate the things I value most about myself.

That was true. I don't give a shit about her career. I get that she doesn't feel like she can't come home and talk about some great thing she did at work but I just don't give a fuck. I like that she makes money but beyond that it means nothing. She always hated the women's empowerment bullshit at work and wasn't that type. She just really derived a lot of satisfaction from working. She doesn't appreciate the side of me that is long-winded and philosophical. I made peace with that a long time ago. We all know women aren't the best outlet for that type of discussion.

I think any guy who wants any semblance of a traditional relationship has to fight hard against the negative influences from modern society and from a girls friends. However, you can't do that alone. You need friends with wives, kids, and strong marriages that are good influences to surround your wife.

In the end it feels like I fought against modernism and lost, at least this round. I influenced her in a lot of ways that made her what I wanted, long hair, in shape, off birth control, even cultivated a little redneck in her, but in the end she bucked it. I didn't have enough firepower on my side.

She wasn't big into social media. No slutty instagram photos. No beta orbiters feeding her likes. She could never see why I hated shit like orange is the new black and lizzo songs. I knew she wasn't totally free from the influence of modern culture but I thought I got her far enough away and that was good enough.

Part of the problem is that she never took any time to shut off the noise and just reflect on life. She seemed allergic to it.

Even as I write this part of me questions if the compromises would have been worth it. She was still better than the vast majority of modern women. She never made me question whether or not I had to worry about another guy in her life. I was it ever since the start when she ditched every single one of her friends for me. Together we would have had a shitload of money and never had to worry about being poor. In the end I didn't think that was worth the cost of having someone else raise my kids and having to compete with the influence of this job and friends I hated.

So now I'm stepping back into the unknown. I've got to move out of this house, don't know where to. My job will let me work 100% remote so I could get out of the city if I wanted. My parents and extended family live in a town of about 20k a few hours outside the city. My first thought is to move back there for a while and figure out what to do. Maybe I will come back to the city but maybe not. I don't know what the quality of women is like in that town. I do know what the women are like in the city and plan to steer clear of that.

It's a tough situation because I really enjoyed being in a committed relationship. To me, it was way better than the life I had before that. Having multiple sluts are is fun, but one slut was better. Honestly, I'm not really excited to be single again. I don't feel like meeting anyone. Don't want to drink. Just want some time alone. That will probably change.

It's not lost on me that falling in love in the beginning is the fun part, getting to know her, that moment when she looks down at your lips a little too long and you realize you got her hooked. However, building a life with someone and all the adventures that come with that has proved to be even better.

I'm not going to attempt to extract a list of lessons learned right now so read this for what it is and maybe find something useful. I'm fully aware I probably could have done certain things to steer the relationship on a better course, maybe avoid this altogether.

The one thing I will say is that it reinforces the opinion that I already had that trying to have a traditional relationships puts you in a full on fight against the modern world. It's like a war where the enemy is all around you with their degenerate propaganda threatening to destroy what you are building. I don't say that to steer people away from relationships. I hate doomers. Just know what you are up against.

At some point I might revisit this and add some of the lessons but at this point I'm burnt out on it. For the first time in my life I've got nothing holding me anywhere. I am going to buy an enclosed trailer to put my shit in, hitch up to my truck and hit the road.
Sorry this happened to you. But sounds like it’s for the best. My unsolicited 2 cents:
1- Don’t live with a girl before marrying her
2- Find a proper, practicing Catholic girl (and convert to Catholicism yourself) — and live a sacramental life together. It’s the only way.
 

droughtmeat

Kingfisher
Catholic
Sorry this happened to you. But sounds like it’s for the best. My unsolicited 2 cents:
1- Don’t live with a girl before marrying her
2- Find a proper, practicing Catholic girl (and convert to Catholicism yourself) — and live a sacramental life together. It’s the only way.
I would strongly disagree with your first point. When you start living with a girl you really get to know her and get a glimpse of what married life would be like because there's no escape. You can't just tell her you're busy and can't see her today when you're annoyed about something. I have friends who moved in with their girlfriends and after about 6 months they reached the let's have sex once a month stage. I'm not glorifying sex, but if that happens so early in a relationship, it's usually an indication that things won't work out.

And on a deeper level you get to see how your girl talks to her parents on the phone aka how they have arguments, how she talks about other people, how she reacts to things like the news and whether you can actually influence her or stir her thoughts in a certain direction as long as you're there every day.

Just think about the couples that lived through all the quarantine stuff together. They really got to know each other, just like many of us really got to know our friends when they said "well, I'm definitely getting the vaxx asap" or family members when they said "if you're unvaxxed, you're not welcome at my house." To me, living together is an invaluable experience.
 

BasilSeal

Robin
Catholic
If you're worried about seeing too much or too little of someone, and see that as a stumbling block for a successful Catholic marriage of two people joined by God; and that, without living with them, you cannot have faith that this holy union will work, there is a lack of maturity of both mind and spirit. I would not advise anyone with that mindset to marry a good Catholic woman, in the same way that I could never support a prenuptial agreement which presupposes failure or insufficiency of God's plan.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Catholic
If you're worried about seeing too much or too little of someone, and see that as a stumbling block for a successful Catholic marriage of two people joined by God; and that, without living with them, you cannot have faith that this holy union will work, there is a lack of maturity of both mind and spirit. I would not advise anyone with that mindset to marry a good Catholic woman, in the same way that I could never support a prenuptial agreement which presupposes failure or insufficiency of God's plan.

Is a prenup anti Catholic? I am not so sure but perhaps the Church has something to say.

It simply means that if your wife files for a civil divorce, that she can't take your stuff. It doesn't mean you can remarry or anything else. To me I see a prenup as a legal arrangement which protects assets, or balances out what are feminist laws trying to bankrupt men. It gives the woman less leverage also, so their eyes don't get greedy.

A good woman is a requirement, but there is nothing wrong with a prenup in my mind but I am open to listening. A guy at 40 is in a different position than a guy at 20.
 

BasilSeal

Robin
Catholic
A prenuptial agreement is 100% not in keeping with Catholic marriage (in the sense discussed here, where it outlines terms related to termination of the marriage).

Marriage is a no strings attached Sacrament. Contingency planning is not in keeping with that view. If it helps, consider that a marriage that leaves you and your spouse broke and even homeless is just as valid and worthy in God's eyes as one that results in prosperity.
 
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josemiguel

Robin
Orthodox
It simply means that if your wife files for a civil divorce, that she can't take your stuff
1 Courts through out prenups like used daipers

2 As a married man, 89% of what I earn is spent and of what I have supports my family. If my wife is foolish enough to divorce, she only gets half.

Literally she is worse off materially by divorcing, and that doesn't take into account international arbitrage opportunities.
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Catholic
From the code of Canon Law:

Can. 1102 §1. A marriage subject to a condition about the future cannot be contracted validly.

Could a man have his assets go to his son rather than his wife? Would that be considered a condition about the future?

Men are charged with security of the household, and the finances, herd, etc. So to me it fits with natural law, because today's laws are unnatural. I'm not sure the canon law quoted invalidates having "arrangements in order".
 

BasilSeal

Robin
Catholic
Go when? As a result of what (event)? His death? What are "his" assets? In any case, why not draw up a will?

If the future event is the dissolution of the marriage through divorce, then that portends it's failure and places conditions on the union that prevent the couple from joining in it freely, without conditions.
 
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