Can anyone think of a magic key that would solve the Orthodox-Catholic split?

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
Christians in the west are entering an era of persecution. It's a pity that Orthodox have such vitriol for Catholics that they don't see them as brothers. Because Russia and Ukraine could serve as safe-havens for Catholics persecuted for their faith. How you can say that two groups that believe in Jesus Christ, logos, the seven sacraments have "differences in worldview too stark" to get along is beyond me.
Blade Runner never said we couldn't get along. The persecutions are coming for all of us. The progressive mobs don't care which Church you're in, they want us all dead.

I think there's a misunderstanding in ecclesiology from both sides going on. From the Orthodox perspective, unity is all about having the same theology, we don't accept changes or even what Catholics would consider minor differences. For the Roman Catholics, some differences are allowed as long as you're under the Pope, so I can see how Catholics would be frustrated at us being so strict with our theology, especially when you have Eastern Rite Catholics. It looks like we're just being stubborn.

It also doesn't help that there's probably 100 times as many English speaking Catholics as Orthodox on the internet and in western society. This results in Orthodox generally being much more conscious of the differences between the two Churches. I would imagine the average Roman Catholic person living in Moscow would know a lot more about Orthodoxy than what the average Muscovite would know about Catholicism.
 

Cicero12

Sparrow
Christians in the west are entering an era of persecution. It's a pity that Orthodox have such vitriol for Catholics that they don't see them as brothers. Because Russia and Ukraine could serve as safe-havens for Catholics persecuted for their faith. How you can say that two groups that believe in Jesus Christ, logos, the seven sacraments have "differences in worldview too stark" to get along is beyond me.

Yea Ukraine isn't faring any better for us Orthodox. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if these "nationalist" Ukrainians in schism and the patriarch in Constantinople don't become Catholic themselves and leave the church. I have no qualms against helping Catholics especially because they are facing similar issues. Our issues with Catholicism lies in its theology. Many of us (not me) were Catholics before being Orthodox, so many still bare some anger to that institution and its beliefs.

As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic church is an institution and belief system in time and space. Especially after Vatican I, it is bounded by earthly power and will compromise its beliefs for it. This is what trusting in one man as vicar of Christ does to you. St. Gregory Palamas warned Barlaam that the road the west is going down will only lead to Atheism. Well, we can clearly see the fruits of that today.
 

Augustus_Principe

Woodpecker
Yea Ukraine isn't faring any better for us Orthodox. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if these "nationalist" Ukrainians in schism and the patriarch in Constantinople don't become Catholic themselves and leave the church. I have no qualms against helping Catholics especially because they are facing similar issues. Our issues with Catholicism lies in its theology. Many of us (not me) were Catholics before being Orthodox, so many still bare some anger to that institution and its beliefs.

As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic church is an institution and belief system in time and space. Especially after Vatican I, it is bounded by earthly power and will compromise its beliefs for it. This is what trusting in one man as vicar of Christ does to you. St. Gregory Palamas warned Barlaam that the road the west is going down will only lead to Atheism. Well, we can clearly see the fruits of that today.

Yes, many bear much anger towards Catholics, more so than even against atheist and Protestants, which is strange to me.

I have a few questions/Thought Experiments:

Why did Russia Accept communism and practiced Sate-Sponsored Atheism if they were Orthodox? Wouldn't their Orthodox beliefs have protected them from Jewry? Why didnt all of Russia Join the White army? Why did the East fall to modern heresies as quick as the West?

Why is it that Orthodox warn against Greek Orthodoxy & Patriarch of Constantinople if they practice Orthodoxy. Shouldn't they be protected against modern heresies since they are Orthodox? Whats the difference between Greek and Russian Orthodoxy?

The last sentence in your post makes it seems as if Catholicism is to blame for our societal ill instead of the society at large. Very narror minded view. Too much to get into, but to make believe that the Catholic Church is to blame for atheism/Pantheism today is a huge stretch(Last I checked, the Enlightenment which led to Atheism was spearheaded by Protestants). Instead of blaming individuals like Luther who couldnt control their Passions, or Marx who was the epitome of the Jewish revolutionary spirit, we blame the Catholic Faith. And again, the East/Slavs are more than eager to follow the worldly way.
 
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ilostabet

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Since our world is upside down, it stands to reason that it will be marginal figures, more or less disconnected from the administrative side of things on either side, like ascetics and eccentrics, which will bring about or facilitate a reunion of True Faith.

Another possibility will be that as we approach a situation of persecution Christianity will, by necessity, acquire a sense of secrecy and mystery which will require initiation just as it did in its early days, which will naturally focus on the essentials. In fact, it already is acquiring such a character again, albeit slowly, because it is quite clear that 'cradle' Christians, at least in the most developed countries, are accommodated to the world. Orders of Chivalry and other organizations of the sort will most likely play a big part as we face the common enemy.

As Christ said Himself: "Many are called but few are chosen".

This is my intuition at least.
 

Sitting Bull

Woodpecker
Yes, many bear much anger towards Catholics, more so than even against atheist and Protestants, which is strange to me.

As a traditional Catholic, this is not strange to me at all. The Catholic Church, being the only true religion and the only true christian denomination, for this very reason has the unique privilege of being strongly opposed by anyone outside her. Any differences Protestants/atheists/Orthodox might have between them give way to their common opposition to the only true Church.

Why did Russia Accept communism and practiced Sate-Sponsored Atheism if they were Orthodox? Wouldn't their Orthodox beliefs have protected them from Jewry?

Indeed, the Catholic Church (as long as it enjoyed official power, that's up to the Vatican II revolution) has always been a "bulwark against communism" in a way the "Orthodox" groups never were.
 

ilostabet

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Any differences Protestants/atheists/Orthodox might have between them give way to their common opposition to the only true Church.

I can only speak for myself, but this is certainly not the case for me. In fact, my problems with the Roman Church are mostly that it has been protestantized and modernized to a large extent. The Roman and Orthodox Churches are both Catholic, meaning, from the same root stock. Protestantism is a grafted branch from a modernist tree. And atheism is just an aphid eating the sap.
 

Pelern

Sparrow
As a traditional Catholic, this is not strange to me at all. The Catholic Church, being the only true religion and the only true christian denomination, for this very reason has the unique privilege of being strongly opposed by anyone outside her. Any differences Protestants/atheists/Orthodox might have between them give way to their common opposition to the only true Church.
What makes the Catholic Church the only true religion and only true Christian denomination?

Was it Indulgences? Was it them putting the bible on the prohibited book list? Was it the claim that only they have the authority to interpret the scripture and therefore the teachings of Jesus? Was it their claim that the full benefit of Salvation is only through the Roman Catholic Church and therefore not Jesus? Was it their blending of Paganism with the teachings of the bible?

I was raised Catholic and most of my family is Catholic but if you really want to know why people dislike the Catholic church, you only have to look at it's history and how corrupt it has become. A long time ago it traded it's spiritual authority for temporal power.
 

Sitting Bull

Woodpecker
The Catholic church (...) A long time ago it traded it's spiritual authority for temporal power.
No, it was all the non-Catholics Christians who did that at some point or other in history , allegedly "freeing themselves from the Pope" but really absorbing themselves and their spiritual power in the temporal power of their country.

Only Catholics can claim with credibility that "they give to God what is His and Caesar what is His", or that Christ is their king. All the others, if they speak sincerely, can only repeat what the Jews said to Pontius Pilate, "We have no other king but Caesar".

There are no Canossa episodes outside of Catholicism.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
No, it was all the non-Catholics Christians who did that at some point or other in history , allegedly "freeing themselves from the Pope" but really absorbing themselves and their spiritual power in the temporal power of their country.

Only Catholics can claim with credibility that "they give to God what is His and Caesar what is His", or that Christ is their king. All the others, if they speak sincerely, can only repeat what the Jews said to Pontius Pilate, "We have no other king but Caesar".

There are no Canossa episodes outside of Catholicism.
Do you acknowledge Pope Francis as the valid Pope?
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
As a traditional Catholic, this is not strange to me at all. The Catholic Church, being the only true religion and the only true christian denomination, for this very reason has the unique privilege of being strongly opposed by anyone outside her. Any differences Protestants/atheists/Orthodox might have between them give way to their common opposition to the only true Church.
This is poppycock and stems from your back and forth, adversarial and centuries long food fight with protestants.

Indeed, the Catholic Church (as long as it enjoyed official power, that's up to the Vatican II revolution) has always been a "bulwark against communism" in a way the "Orthodox" groups never were.

This is a very rich comment on many levels. It was a bulwark against communism ... until it joined the cause as an SJW partner. Wow, that makes me feel like reconsidering my point of view.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Emphatically not (same for all the so-called post-Vatican II popes, which I call antipopes). I am of the so-called "sedevacantist" persuasion, in the "home-aloner" subcategory.
Just go back to the original church and call no man a pope, since you are picking and choosing on some basis anyway, and poof! problem solved. See, you didn't even need us orthodox to do anything, just help you with some logic here and there.

Oh yeah, while you're at it in the time machine, ask the Antiochians why The Chair of Peter isn't there, since he was there first. Oh yeah, that confuses things a bit ... and ... they're Orthodox. Imagine that.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Pelican
Orthodox
Christians in the west are entering an era of persecution. It's a pity that Orthodox have such vitriol for Catholics that they don't see them as brothers. Because Russia and Ukraine could serve as safe-havens for Catholics persecuted for their faith. How you can say that two groups that believe in Jesus Christ, logos, the seven sacraments have "differences in worldview too stark" to get along is beyond me.
Cringe takes like this are not arguments. Just emotional appeals.

Just go back to the original church and call no man a pope, since you are picking and choosing on some basis anyway, and poof! problem solved. See, you didn't even need us orthodox to do anything, just help you with some logic here and there.

Oh yeah, while you're at it in the time machine, ask the Antiochians why The Chair of Peter isn't there, since he was there first. Oh yeah, that confuses things a bit ... and ... they're Orthodox. Imagine that.
Exactly. Peter was the first bishop of Antioch, so Patriarch John X of Antioch has equal title to that of Rome, according to Catholic logic.
 
What makes the Catholic Church the only true religion and only true Christian denomination?

Was it Indulgences? Was it them putting the bible on the prohibited book list? Was it the claim that only they have the authority to interpret the scripture and therefore the teachings of Jesus? Was it their claim that the full benefit of Salvation is only through the Roman Catholic Church and therefore not Jesus? Was it their blending of Paganism with the teachings of the bible?

I was raised Catholic and most of my family is Catholic but if you really want to know why people dislike the Catholic church, you only have to look at it's history and how corrupt it has become. A long time ago it traded it's spiritual authority for temporal power.
Sorry, but with all due respect, this is a grug take.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Exactly. Peter was the first bishop of Antioch, so Patriarch John X of Antioch has equal title to that of Rome, according to Catholic logic.
Which proves that the Apostles aren't bishops, they installed or put hands on the first bishops (Linus in Rome) because all are universal teachers of the faith. The Apostles lacked nothing in teaching about Christ, they were with him, and they taught and laid hands on their successors all over the world. This is a critical point I have been meaning to make, and just have. Think of it, would you say the disciples of St. John, for example, lacked anything in understanding who Christ was, or what the Church was or should be?

"Orthodoxy" shines again, not because of any of us on an internet forum, but because of the facts at hand and the truth of Christianity.
 
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