Can anyone think of a magic key that would solve the Orthodox-Catholic split?

[Eusebius Erasmus]

Again you could try answering the question. I'll repeat:

How you can say that two groups that believe in Jesus Christ, logos, the seven sacraments have "differences in worldview too stark" to get along? ​

I’ve already answered this. We can get along and be cordial, but we can’t be in communion with each other until Catholics, at a minimum, get rid of Papal Supremacy and the Filioque.

 

[TheMoralLaw]

unity is all about having the same theology,

But Orthodox dont all have the same theology any more than Catholics do. I have witnessed many sperg-out theological disputes between Orthodox priests on the internet, each accusing the other of unorthodoxy or even heresy.

 

[Pelern]

this is a grug take.

Is that English?

 

[TheMoralLaw]

Blade Runner never said we couldn't get along.

Oh no? What else do you call two populations with "differences in worldview too stark"? There's a name for it: enemies. People with differences in worldview can't share the same world.

 

[TheMoralLaw]

Again, this thread was an attempt at rebuilding the bridge between Orthodox and Catholic that existed for 1000+ years. What has ensued is several Orthodox dynamiting any surviving pylons.

 

[Pelern]

Again, this thread was an attempt at rebuilding the bridge between Orthodox and Catholic that existed for 1000+ years. What has ensued is several Orthodox dynamiting any surviving pylons.

You get that out of a Catholic stating that they are the only true religion?

 

[MichaelWitcoff]

Repentance by the Romans out of a desire to rejoin the Church.

 

[DanielH]

Oh no? What else do you call two populations with "differences in worldview too stark"? There's a name for it: enemies. People with differences in worldview can't share the same world.

Given that the thread is about reunion, if someone says that the differences are too stark, the logical thing to assume (which he has reaffirmed) is that the differences are too stark for communion, not that they can't get along. Are you a sedevacantist by the way?

The following is to everyone in general. This forum isn't supposed to be emotional, consider it guys talking in a cigar lounge. The past couple days I've been called KGB and accused of wanting Catholics dead, among other things from new members. I've seen guys with better English skills than me have their writing style mocked by people trying to win an argument. Stop being emotional.

 

[ilostabet]

Reading this thread a conclusion that becomes unavoidable is that a pre-requisite for any type of reunion is to end the internet.

 

[TheMoralLaw]

is that the differences are too stark for communion, not that they can't get along. Are you a sedevacantist by the way?

Tactical ignorance: you keep dropping "worldview".

Not a sedevacantist. More a sede ignorans. I pray for Pope Francis at mass and at rosary.

 

[Blade Runner]

Focus on my larger point, Moral. In the coming years or decades it is not going to matter that the Roman Catholic Church was schismatic, we are all going to suffer (more) if we are true believers. By the way, you are already a schismatic from the post schism church. You don't think that's ironic? And no, we aren't your enemies.

 

[get2choppaaa]

You have valid sacraments, but your sacraments do not effect grace because you are outside the Church.The means of sanctification and salvation exist exclusively within the Church. So your sacraments are valid but you not only a)cannot receive grace from them, but b)actually commit sin by partaking them outside the Catholic Church. Instead of being means of sanctification and salvation, they become means of damnation.

How does one Church that separated themselves from all other Apostolic Traditions get to Excommunicate the rest of the Faith?

 

[Pelern]

How does one Church that separated themselves from all other Apostolic Traditions get to Excommunicate the rest of the Faith?

"And this is the will of Him who sent Me: that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes on Me has everlasting life."

"Truly, truly I say to you, I am the door of the sheep … I am the door; by me if anyone enters in, he shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pasture."

I guess Jesus really was talking about the Roman Catholic church and not himself when he said these things.

 

[get2choppaaa]

"And this is the will of Him who sent Me: that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes on Me has everlasting life."

"Truly, truly I say to you, I am the door of the sheep … I am the door; by me if anyone enters in, he shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pasture."

I guess Jesus really was talking about the Roman Catholic church and not himself when he said these things.

Maybe I'm obtuse... what are you saying, that the scripture is interpreted to your liking to justify the Roman Catholic position and supercedes the Ecumenical body of the other Apostolic Churches?

Are you suggesting that there is a comparison between the act of a Pope to be infallible on the same level of Jesus Christ?

I supposed there's never been a Pope whose become a heretic? Or maybe dug up and exhumed by his successor...

 

[Pelern]

Maybe I'm obtuse... what are you saying, that the scripture is interpreted to your liking to justify the Roman Catholic position and supercedes the Ecumenical body of the other Apostolic Churches?

Are you suggesting that there is a comparison between the act of a Pope to be infallible on the same level of Jesus Christ?

I supposed there's never been a Pope whose become a heretic? Or maybe dug up and exhumed by his successor...

I was being sarcastic with the last statement. I guess that it is always hard to do when having discussions on the internet.

However you did hit on what I was suggesting. The Roman Catholic church believes that it supersedes the word of god.

 

[get2choppaaa]

I was being sarcastic with the last statement. I guess that it always hard to do when having discussions on the internet.

However you did hit on what I was suggesting. The Roman Catholic church believes that it supersedes the word of god.

Haha copy... The lack of ability to read sarcasm is magnified on this particular topic. I was like, wait did I miss something?

 

[TheMoralLaw]

With all due respect to my Orthodox brethren, most of these supposed BTFOs of the Papacy and the claims of Catholicism are blood-libels that are easily debunked by relegation to Catholic.com, and before that Catholic Answers pamphlets, and before that going back to the 1940s, Catholic Replies. The Catholic Church is nothing if not organized in its apologetics and systematic in its theology. Think about it. You became Orthodox yesterday. How likely is it that something you heard about Catholicism or something that popped into your noggin ("Da Pope .. brrr... was bad once" ... "Why ... one guy ... beep... get ta' be da' head?" ) is going to be the hot take that makes the walls of Rome come tumbling down?

The Catholic Church's claims are internally consistent. You may not be ultimately persuaded by it. Faith is a supernatural gift, after all. You have to pray to receive it, and certainly people this resistant to the truth are not going to find it, save being knocked off their horse.

 

[NickK]

With all due respect to my Orthodox brethren...bla bla bla...

Faith is a supernatural gift, after all. You have to pray to receive it, and certainly people this resistant to the truth are not going to find it, save being knocked off their horse.

 

[Advorsor]

As a recovering Catholic, please forgive my ignorance here:

Can someone explain the significance of the "Filioque" as relevant to this discussion?

Genuinely interested. Thanks.

 

[DanielH]

As a recovering Catholic, please forgive my ignorance here:

Can someone explain the significance of the "Filioque" as relevant to this discussion?

Genuinely interested. Thanks.

It changed the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed which wasn't allowed. It resulted in the dual monarchy of the Father and the Son, with the Holy Spirit potentially being relegated to a lower position from an Orthodox perspective. It all started with translation issues from the Greek to the Latin. In Greek, the word is more like “originates from” but when translated to Latin it is translated to something like “is sent by,” which is actually biblically accurate. Both positions are correct if you look at its meaning. So it started off as a misunderstanding. Roman Catholics don't really have a consistent theology on the matter, you'll find at some times they agree with the Orthodox position in practice, other times they don't. It's not something they enforce, as Eastern Rite Catholics don't use the Filioque. At one point, Popes vehemently rejected the Filioque as a heresy originating from Spain. The adoption of the Filioque was also likely used to combat Arianism.

This seems to me like one of the easier things Roman Catholics could fix.