Cancelling the nation of Russia

PolishCalifornian

Woodpecker
Catholic
This is the thread you want - https://www.rooshvforum.com/threads/lounge-of-russian-ukrainian-war.41490/

This thread here is about the cancellation of Russia and its associated citizens.
I was replying to another comment is this thread, that's why I posted here. As for the premise that Russia is being "cancelled", I think it's false. Russia has literally cancelled (to put it very mildly) dozens of nations over the past few centuries and is in the process of trying to wipe independent Ukraine from the map of Europe. Preventing Russian tourists from visiting European vacation spots or even refusing to buy Russian gas, the profits of which are used to conduct this and future invasions, is frankly the minimum Europe should be doing if it wants to survive.
 

GigaBITE

Robin
Oriental Orthodox
I was replying to another comment is this thread, that's why I posted here. As for the premise that Russia is being "cancelled", I think it's false. Russia has literally cancelled (to put it very mildly) dozens of nations over the past few centuries and is in the process of trying to wipe independent Ukraine from the map of Europe. Preventing Russian tourists from visiting European vacation spots or even refusing to buy Russian gas, the profits of which are used to conduct this and future invasions, is frankly the minimum Europe should be doing if it wants to survive.
Correction: Russia is eliminating an incipient threat before it grows to be an even bigger, nastier threat.

I sympathize with aggrieved smaller nations in Eastern Europe, to a degree, but I will call its sons out when I see them vaingloriously and enthusiastically stumping for neoconservative-helmed Globohomo and a country whose leader says he envisions its future as a "big Israel," just to "own" the Russians. I'll remind you that countries like Poland participated in the U.S. "Coalition of the Willing" during the Iraq War, which effectively eliminated Iraq's Christian minority (which at the time of invasion numbered one million). They seem to have had no qualms about that (nor when it came to Syria, nor Yugoslavia, etc).
 

Sveti Vrh

 
Banned
Orthodox
or even refusing to buy Russian gas, the profits of which are used to conduct this and future invasions, is frankly the minimum Europe should be doing if it wants to survive.
If you want to go to war first you have to ask yourself if you can afford it. Can Europe afford it? No, not even in the slightest and because of this Europe will turn itself into a third world country. You are insane if you think this strategy ensures Europe's 'survival'. It will bring it to it's knees in one winter. Russia can just wait a few years while Europe bleeds to death and take the whole continent if it wants to. You are repeating the false ideology your masters have programmed you with. It's detached from reality. This will bring the opposite you were led to believe. You are writing this in September when it's already materializing with energy protests occurring in Czechia, Italy, UK. Maybe this winter will bring you to your senses. No, it's not Putin fault but your own.
 
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DanielH

Ostrich
Moderator
Orthodox
Russia has literally cancelled (to put it very mildly) dozens of nations over the past few centuries
Okay, but over the course of our and even our grandparents' lifetimes, Russia itself has only been plundered, and the Orthodox Christians persecuted. Under the USSR, practically all of the ethnically Russian oblasts lost money and resources through taxation, while most of the non-Russian oblasts, even if they were wealthy, received more tax money than they paid.

Whatever Russia or certain czars did 150-400 years ago has no relevance today and is frankly vindictive and unforgiving to hold it against the nation of today. Perhaps more recent conflicts would be of more relevance, but when looking at those you would have a hard time convincing anyone that those wars were worse than what the West has done in that same timeframe.
 
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911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
^Not to mention that a good chunk of modern-day Poland sits on German land/Prussia, with towns like Danzig ethnically cleansed.

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Thomas More

Crow
Protestant
Whatever Russia or certain czars did 150-400 years ago has no relevance today and is frankly vindictive and unforgiving to hold it against the nation of today. Perhaps more recent conflicts would be of more relevance, but when looking at those you would have a hard time convincing anyone that those wars were worse than what the West has done in that same timeframe.
I would add that in the longer time frame, Prussia, Sweden, Poland, Hungary, and Lithuania all had large empires in that region at one point or another. It's not like Russia was a heartless aggressor, and the other countries were just peace loving victims. They were all playing the same game of conquest and empire.



However, that's all in the past. The only recent history that is relevant is the post WWII world. The Soviet Union had the Eastern and Central European countries under occupation and forced into participation in the Warsaw pact. The USSR broke up 30 years ago, and all the former Warsaw pact countries became independent, along with the creation of new countries from the former Soviet republics. Since that time, Russia has been making a legitimate good faith effort to behave well and to be on good terms with these newly independent countries, and with the NATO countries and the rest of the world.

In response to Russia's good faith effort, the rest of the world has been trying a slow, stealthy effort to creep up to Russia's borders with hostile forces, and to bleed it dry financially, to try to make it a failed state. If the West wanted peace, they should have agreed to terms that are reasonable from Russia's point of view.

However, the West does not want peace. They have used a continuous passive aggressive approach to undermine and provoke Russia. They knew that their course of action would result in Russia attacking Ukraine. There are numerous videos from key US and NATO figures saying what would happen if NATO pushed up against Russia's borders and tried to turn Ukraine against Russia, including by Joe Biden himself. They knew what would happen, and they did it purposely to provoke Russia.

The West thought they would provoke Russia into a quagmire, and then bleed them to death with sanctions. Instead, the West is in a quagmire, and the sanctions are bleeding the West to death while they make Russia rich. Maybe the West should just accept peaceful terms with Russia, and stop working to aggravate the situation.
 

Giordano Bruno

Sparrow
Orthodox
The West thought they would provoke Russia into a quagmire, and then bleed them to death with sanctions. Instead, the West is in a quagmire, and the sanctions are bleeding the West to death while they make Russia rich. Maybe the West should just accept peaceful terms with Russia, and stop working to aggravate the situation.

Considering the ability of these sorts of people in the West to consistently and repeatedly deny both reality and God, I don't think that's likely to happen any time soon. Even if most of the politicians in power are just manipulating things for personal gain, there are far too many useful idiots that genuinely believe all the propaganda these days.
 

Sveti Vrh

 
Banned
Orthodox
Whatever Russia or certain czars did 150-400 years ago has no relevance today and is frankly vindictive and unforgiving to hold it against the nation of today. Perhaps more recent conflicts would be of more relevance, but when looking at those you would have a hard time convincing anyone that those wars were worse than what the West has done in that same timeframe.
Western normies don't even understand why Russia is 'bad'. They don't know the Russians they are talking about were majority Bolshevik Jews. Any sin that Russia has committed in the last century the west is guilty of more. Simply put. The biggest war crime during WW2 was the allied bombing of Germany. Guys like PolishCalifornian don't understand they are on the evil side. What else can the west be when it sells sodomy, brings war to people all over the world and is now after it's own children. Poland participated in the Afghan and Iraq quagmire which brought pain and suffering to countless civilians. They were pawns of Israel. They don't understand they will have to wash away that sin with their own blood. That's how evil it was. The west has no moral high ground to condemn Russia for anything. All we are hearing from the west is rabid Jewish slander. That's what the Poles are engaging in. They internalized the Jewish mindset that is contrary to their self interest. Their interest is to get cheap energy from Russia, engage in moderate export and get on with their lives. The only result of this anti-Russian rabies will be economic poverty and later full-on slavery. Nothing gained, future lost. But even when they have no food on the table their stubborn pride will still prevent them from seeing they sided with the devil.

It's not too late to recognize the true enemy here and stop this truly insane, NATO inspired warmongering. Whatever you hold against Russia now is the time to behave like a Christian, forgive their past sins and make peace.
 
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Zanardi

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Well I guess Russians stay within their own country then and support their own society more. No Russian tourist money for Denmark....Man, they are really WRECKING the Russians!

Not quite. The Russians do not have access to a bunch of European countries, while the entire world, minus Russia, can enter Denmark. Not to mention that the EU also has positive parts, no only negative ones. These positive parts are also missed by the Russians. So yeah, they are really wrecking them.
 

OrthoSerb

Robin
Orthodox
Not quite. The Russians do not have access to a bunch of European countries, while the entire world, minus Russia, can enter Denmark. Not to mention that the EU also has positive parts, no only negative ones. These positive parts are also missed by the Russians. So yeah, they are really wrecking them.
I'm not following your chain of logic here. It looks like you're allowing your animosity towards Russia to influence your thinking. Of what significance is it whether someone's tourists can visit Denmark or "positive parts" of the EU? There's much more at stake than that. Do you really think a country or culture's existence is threatened or wrecked by the inability of the most affluent 3% to enjoy trips to the EU?
 

Zanardi

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I am trying to say that

No Russian tourist money for Denmark....Man, they are really WRECKING the Russians!

the Russian tourist money for Denmark is a small percentage of the tourist money that comes into Denmark. However, the countries that don't allow Russians on their land grows so large that will slowly affect the Russian population that wants to travel. They may be only 3%, but those 3% have spending power and can come back into their native countries with improvement ideas to implement them at home. Or at least with life experience. Thus, I don't know how much more can these 3% support the Russian society. Being stuck in your own country does not equal that you can support their native society, otherwise North Korea would be the ruler of the world.
 

OrthoSerb

Robin
Orthodox
I am trying to say that



the Russian tourist money for Denmark is a small percentage of the tourist money that comes into Denmark. However, the countries that don't allow Russians on their land grows so large that will slowly affect the Russian population that wants to travel. They may be only 3%, but those 3% have spending power and can come back into their native countries with improvement ideas to implement them at home. Or at least with life experience. Thus, I don't know how much more can these 3% support the Russian society. Being stuck in your own country does not equal that you can support their native society, otherwise North Korea would be the ruler of the world.
These are Western tropes based on really weak pre-suppositions. The first one being that what the West considers desirable is objectively desirable. And that every other society is so backward that people need to travel to the West in order to bring back Western ideas and improve their home countries. This ignores the fact that many of the ideas being brought back are objectively degenerate and undesirable. Many of the Serbs that study in the West end up adopting the modern Western mindset and values. For example the idolatry of equality, democracy, moral relativism, feminism, scientism etc. Obviously some people pick up on some positive aspects and do bring those back. For example some technical skills, business acumen, the ability to overcome adversity etc. I've even seen some Serbs come to the faith whilst living and working outside of Serbia. However there's a clear trade off and on the moral/cultural side its indisputable that the travel is a net negative. It also results in a brain-drain and negative demographic trends as many if not most never return to their home countries and assimilate into the melting pot. Also the whole trend for eastern Europeans to study in Western universities is essentially soft-brainwashing and subversion. When such students do return they act as unwitting Trojan horses who think in their worldly wisdom that its a moral imperative to recreate their native culture and society to conform to modern Western values.

The other pre-supposition is that the 3% know how to or are even trying to improve their home countries. And that their remaining in a position where they have the power, and means to travel, somehow equates to the prosperity of the country and culture. You're from eastern Europe. You should well know that a significant proportion of the 3% most affluent have accumulated and maintain that wealth through illicit and immoral means. They have little to no interest in supporting the rest of society or implementing ideas that would improve their society. They have got to the top of the food chain in whichever way they could and they want to maintain that position and enjoy the earthly fruits of that. In Serbia, for example, the richest 3% would include a large number of people who have made their money through the following means:
  • Obtaining national or local political office in order to siphon off state money. The most common means being awarding of government contracts or jobs to people in their own networks in return for kickbacks or other favours. The other means is blocking legal business activity unless kickbacks are offered.
  • Bribing state officials and politicians in order to obtain approval or preferential treatment in the field of business and establishing de facto local monopoly conditions that prevent competition. This includes evading taxes by bribing relevant officials. Or bribing law enforcement officials to ensure the law is not enforced.
  • Production of degenerate "entertainment content" or "music". This includes the individual "musicians" who sing songs semi-naked glamourising lust and fornication, the TV network owners who produce the Western-style reality TV shows that normalise degeneracy etc.
  • Trafficking of drugs and organised prostitution
  • Once the money has been obtained through one of the means above common ways of recycling it and growing it would include investing in gambling premises, night clubs and cafes. Much of it also goes into real estate which pumps up the prices beyond what the ordinary person can afford.
I could go on, but quite frankly its difficult to understand how anyone could think that inability of the top 3% to engage in foreign travel (specifically to Western Europe!) is something to worry about or that its going to damage a country. Those that have made their money honestly will continue to find ways to make money honestly and benefit society. Those who had just enough to enjoy a few foreign holidays will find new destinations to somewhere outside the EU.
 
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AManLikePutin

Kingfisher
It’s just the EU.

I know many Russian friends who’ve travelled abroad this summer.

Turkey
Egypt
Armenia (prior to conflict)
Abkhazia
Dubai
Mexico
Cuba
Greece

Just to name a few. I personally know them and seen their photos.

Once again the false assumption that GAE empire = all world in place.

Similar to how “international community” often spoken of is basically GAE and it’s vassals.
 
It's just a symbolic measure - a sign that Russians are no longer welcome in the western (the only civlised in their mind) world. It reeks of hypocrisy since citizens of such peace loving countries like Turkey, Israel or Saudi Arabia will still be able to easily get a shengen visa.
And it will be an empty measure - people won't go out and riot on the streets because they can't go on vacation to Greece. They'll go to Turkey instead and that's it. People who go on, on a mass tourism / all inclusive vacations (doesn't matter if they're Russians, Germans or Brits) don't care where they go - as long as it's cheap, the weather is nice and the drinks are "free".
The wealthy Russians (those who care about the culture and the quality of life of countries they visit) will find a way around it, they'll always do - shengen visa issued in one country is valid in the whole zone, so as long as there is a single country that continues to welcome Russian citizens (Portugal for example) they will be able to travel all across Europe.
 
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TCOCBR18

Sparrow
Orthodox
I am trying to say that



the Russian tourist money for Denmark is a small percentage of the tourist money that comes into Denmark. However, the countries that don't allow Russians on their land grows so large that will slowly affect the Russian population that wants to travel. They may be only 3%, but those 3% have spending power and can come back into their native countries with improvement ideas to implement them at home. Or at least with life experience. Thus, I don't know how much more can these 3% support the Russian society. Being stuck in your own country does not equal that you can support their native society, otherwise North Korea would be the ruler of the world.
Yes, Russian tourist money is of course inconsequential for Denmark, but it should be equally obvious that tourism to Denmark is just as inconsequential for Russia. When I commented about "Man, they are really WRECKING..." the point of my comment was to sarcastically jab at measures that are undertaken with great media frenzies in the West about how they are "pushing back on Russia", that in reality have virtually no consequence at all for Russia. Yes, wealthy Russians now may find their European tourist options more limited than before. That's about it though. To be frank, that really does not matter. If a truly large number of countries starting banning Russians, that could be different. But if we're just talking about a handful of European countries, no one really cares very much. Perhaps inconvenient, but definitely not "wrecking" Russia.
 

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member


Ban On All Russian Tourists In Baltic States & Poland Takes Effect​

On Monday, travel bans targeting Russian citizens took effect in four out of the five European Union countries bordering Russia. This comes after the EU considered but didn't ultimately go through with implementing a bloc-wide travel ban, saying visa policies would be up to individual nations.

"Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania imposed new restrictions as Finland decided to remain open, though it has cut back the number of consular appointments available to Russian travelers seeking visas," Al Jazeera reports.

Starting the first week of the Ukraine invasion, the EU had imposed a blanket flight ban on Russian planes, but rail as well as road transport links have remained open and available.

EU leadership had last month expressed concerns that a bloc-wide ban on Russian travel would unfairly hurt dissidents and journalists, and all Russians no matter their views of the war.

"More than 300,000 Russians have [fled] their country because they don't want to live under the rule of [Russian President Vladimir] Putin. Are we going to close the door to these Russians? I don't think it's a good idea," EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said at the time.

Late last month, however, the EU did agree to freeze a 2007 agreement which had eased travel between Russia and Europe, effectively making the process for Russians to obtain short-term visas to enter Europe’s passport-free travel zone much harder, more time-consuming and costly.

Al Jazeera meanwhile notes the important exception that "Monday’s entry ban is aimed at tourists and excludes Russian dissidents seeking refuge in the EU along with truck drivers, refugees and permanent residents of EU countries as well as those visiting family members."

The Kremlin for its part has condemned the move of a number of EU countries to outright block Russian tourist visas as having xenophobic and "Russophobic" underpinnings.
 

911

Peacock
Catholic
Gold Member
^The ban on Russian tourists in the Baltics does not extend to those Russian tourists riding in Russian tanks across the border.
 
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