Cancelling the West : Moving to the new Russia.

Yeagerist

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
I remember an interview with him where he said that "anyone who goes around saying the Russia is for Russians only is an idiot because we're a multicultural federation." Anatoly Karlin on unz.com has written blog posts about how the FSB has basically crushed the dissident right ethnic nationalist movement in Russia and I've seen statements about the same from other dissident right Russian authors.
Putin probably said this to dissuade any future separatist movements, after the two Chechen wars he's not gonna take any further risks. Although I doubt that the Siberian tribes would suddenly proclaim themselves an independent country. Also given Russia's historical expansion into northern Asia, Putin has to respect the rights of those ethnic groups who are already living in those lands before they got conquered.
 

Stoyan

Pelican
Orthodox
some ethnic Russians from ex-USSR weren't able to get that citizenship for decades.
By the way, the moment you suggest that Russia is Orthodox or slavic state on arrival you'll get problems with FSB, this is considered extremism aimed to destabilize the union of numerous ethnicities and various religions of Russia.

Please tell us more about these two factors.
 

thetruewhitenorth

Kingfisher
Orthodox
You're greatly exaggerating, but in any case, which part of "new" are you unwilling to understand? I insisted in some of my posts above, that the thread is not about the Russian Federation of the past, but about the new Russia, as described and promised by V. Putin. Can't you imagine a new Russia, cleansed from the corruption of Western apps and brands?

By the way, from your pessimistic, defeated posts, you might actually qualify for what Putin described as either 5th-Column (maybe you're partly Ukrainian? Pole?) or at the minimum "those who live here but in their heads live over there - in their dreamed woke West". Are you loyal to your country and (legitimate) leader, one might ask, from reading your somber posts about Russia?

Edit,
you failed to note that I specifically mentioned the possibility for Muslim people to also peacefully integrate in the Russian Federation. Search the posts for "honorable Chechen brothers".
I listened to various Russian politicians and media persons talk on the immigration priority over the years.

What most of them have been saying is this (in my own words):

Immigration to Russia should be greatly facilitated and fast tracked to ALL ethnic groups that have bee ***historically** living anywhere in Russia (within today's borders).

What it means? There are over 140 ethnic groups (if Im not mistaken) in Russia. So, if you're Chechen, Russian, Ukranian, Tuva, Cherkess and so on and so on. You get priority.

If you're say Azerbaijani or Uzbek - you dont, because these groups have not been historically living in Russia.

The list of priority groups is yet to be made.

Additionally, I believe they will make another immigration stream for westerners specifically. That's what I heard. No specifics yet.
 

thetruewhitenorth

Kingfisher
Orthodox
This, even more than my Latina wife not being able to handle the winters, is my biggest problem with the idea of settling in Russia. At the end of the day, I'm not Russian. Best to stay in my own country and resist globohomo on my own terms.

Not that mass immigration from the West to Russia is a thing that's likely to happen anyway.
Yes, the winter is really a bummer. My in-laws were visiting us recently from South America. They never saw snow before or experienced cold.

In the beginning they were excited about all the winter stuff. But over time, her mom started getting sad and even depressed - lack of sun, being cooped up in doors, lack of social life. In the end we had to change their departure date to leave much sooner.

Im too, contemplating possibly relocating to SA as neither me or my wife have any roots in North America (apart from our kids, but they're quite small).

Also, as a nature lover, there's like six-seven months of cold when its not very pleasurable being outdoors.
 

thetruewhitenorth

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Putin probably said this to dissuade any future separatist movements, after the two Chechen wars he's not gonna take any further risks. Although I doubt that the Siberian tribes would suddenly proclaim themselves an independent country. Also given Russia's historical expansion into northern Asia, Putin has to respect the rights of those ethnic groups who are already living in those lands before they got conquered.
Very good assessment. Ethnic nationalism leads to conflict, just look at Ukraine.

Russia has always been an Empire. First, Orthodox Empire, then Red Empire. And now, its reclaiming this title again.

This is the only framework under which it can thrive and exist. Everything else will inevitably lead to its demise which almost happened in the 90s.

Empires cannot be nationalistic. Its all inclusive as long as you pledge your allegiance to the Emperor, the Land and its interests.
 

road_runner

 
Banned
Other Christian
As someone who had earned my freedoms with arms my hands - so I love freedom a lot - it really amuses me how all the same people on the forum who complain about digital concentration camp, government overreach, censorship, cancel culture, political oppression in the West, possible un-banking want to move to...Russia. :hmm:

If you moved there (you won't, won't be able to), you'd learn the real meaning of these things quick.
Not the kiddie gloves-on Western version that you had seen so far but the real, Eastern version, China-style.
Might not be able to leave even and 100% won't be able to take your money back out of there, that if you manage to keep any of them while you'd be like a babe in the woods among all the crooks, crime, failing banks and heavy government actions with zero regard for the individual.
If you speak out on any social media saying the stuff you say on this forum, you'd get problems too, and if they declare someone to be an extremist (like you use a social network they don't like or posted a like under something they don't like), you'd be fully unbanked real quick just for starters, it's been done for many years, silly people think it started in Canada. Right now even discussing the military operations online and reposting telegram can technically get one up to 15 years of prison, it's not going to change much while Putin is there. If Putin goes it'll be a even wilder ride with any outcome, from civil war to full North Korea.
 
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Stoyan

Pelican
Orthodox
Very good assessment. Ethnic nationalism leads to conflict, just look at Ukraine.
Empires cannot be nationalistic. Its all inclusive as long as you pledge your allegiance to the Emperor, the Land and its interests.
Yes, I agree. The New Russia cannot be based on a purely nationalistic ideology, since who exactly is "ethnic Russian" is open to interpretations. For example many "ethnic Russians" are actually at least partly Ukrainians, Belarusians, Mara, Muroma, Mordva, Jews, Tatars, Bashkirs, Chechens, Armenians, Cherkassy. Any Russian state which is based upon only ethnic lines, which are always arbitrarily drawn, risks excluding some of the people who are loyal to it.

I think that Russia is a civilization like China, not necessarily a purely ethnic state. China also has historically been a theocratic traditional monarchy, an empire which included many ethnic groups, although the core of Chinese civilization is based on the Han ethnic group, just like the code of Russian civilization is based on the Rus ethnic group. And even Han Chinese are at least partly Manchus, Maio, and other ethnic groups even in the middle of China. Just like China, Russia has it's own distinctive art, architecture, music, clothing.

Russian is a civilizational identify. Therefore, the New Russia should include people who identify as Russian, because not all people who are Russians by blood actually identify as Russians. Like for example the guy who chained himself to the McDonalds. There may not be many such people, who live in Russia but for whom Russian civilization is a foreign thing, but they exist unfortunately. Anyway, I expect that such people will immigrate to the West in the following several years, as they cannot live without their Facebook and Onlyfans. The problem is that such people also propagate the American lifestyle in Russia. , making it look "cool" and a subject of emulation, which is totally unacceptable.

Immigration to Russia should be greatly facilitated and fast tracked to ALL ethnic groups that have bee ***historically** living anywhere in Russia (within today's borders).

What it means? There are over 140 ethnic groups (if Im not mistaken) in Russia. So, if you're Chechen, Russian, Ukranian, Tuva, Cherkess and so on and so on. You get priority.
I think that immigration to Russia should be fast tracked to people who identify with the Russian civilization. I think that priority should be given to descendants of immigrants who fled from communist persecution (White Army veterans, Cossacks, Old Believers), especially those of us who have preserved the traditional Russian culture by our own efforts. I think that we would be an effective counter to all those pro-Western liberal "Russians".

About accepting immigration from the West, from historically non-Russian civilization ethnic groups, the New Russia has to be careful about who it lets in.

Don't California my Texas.
Don't Westernize my Russia.

It would be a problem if among the immigrants to the New Russia would come people who are conservative only on the surface, but actually within retain the cultural values of the West, either consciously or unconsciously. People who are grinning ridiculously or agaping their mouths. Even if there would be people who are against gaytrans and wokeism, if they like nightclubs, rap music, fast food, they would rather poorly integrate into the Russian civilization. They would just be more people to re-program, in addition to the liberal Russian citizens.

So for Westerners of ethnicities that historically haven't been part of the Russian civilization, immigration requirements should probably be stricter, having an ideological component as well, to check if these people are actually Orthodox. Although some ethnic groups such as the Amish have similar mentality to the Russian people. Even if they aren't Orthodox, they would fit in well, and they would even be an example for other Russians who have fallen astray.

Some of Russia's best sons have been of foreign descent, such as Mikhail Yuryevich Lermontov, one of the most famous poets writers of the Russian classical literature, whose family Lermont was from Scotland.
 

Trewolla

 
Banned
Protestant
I'm sorry for my following harsh words, but do you even know that there's a war going on in Ukraine right now? Ukrainians are fleeing their country to not get caught up in the fighting between their military and that of Russia, and the Western media is taking advantage of their situation to discredit Putin in every way possible. And then there's the fact that countries in the European Union are facing the problem of crime from refugees from the Middle East and Africa for years now, as well as the low birth rates of native Europeans.

My point is that sooner or later Ukrainian refugees esp. the women in Great Britain, France, for example, will soon experience being on the receiving end of these crimes from these migrants who will never fit in European society.
In a very large sense, Russia isn't at war with Ukraine only. Russia is at war against the decadence of the west expanding into Russia.

Ukraine is just where the line got drawn.
 

Samseau

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
If you moved to Russia, as a man, you'd be asked why you left your home country instead of trying to fix it from inside. If you told them you couldn't, they'd then ask you to either fight for the Russia military or explain why you believe Russians should die for your sake.

Russians take in-group loyalty very seriously... you'd need to prove yourself somehow, in a significant way.
 

Blade Runner

Hummingbird
Orthodox
If you moved to Russia, as a man, you'd be asked why you left your home country instead of trying to fix it from inside. If you told them you couldn't, they'd then ask you to either fight for the Russia military or explain why you believe Russians should die for your sake.

Russians take in-group loyalty very seriously... you'd need to prove yourself somehow, in a significant way.
Presumably the Orthodox angle might suffice here, but I can't speak on Russian proclivity or mercy to this principle, or how seriously they might even take it. It seems to me with this many unknowns, just going to an eastern european historically orthodox nation (south slav?) instead would obviously be better.
 

droughtmeat

Kingfisher
Catholic
If you moved to Russia, as a man, you'd be asked why you left your home country instead of trying to fix it from inside. If you told them you couldn't, they'd then ask you to either fight for the Russia military or explain why you believe Russians should die for your sake.

Russians take in-group loyalty very seriously... you'd need to prove yourself somehow, in a significant way.
Which is essentially the same reason some on this board criticize fighting age refugees for leaving their home countries too. The Russian government would definitely have to make a deliberate effort to sell the idea of mass immigration to the Russian people. Everyone knows that it will lead to different kinds of segregation in cities and there will be areas filled with primarily English speakers/ internationals. Furthermore, it would most likely also influence the Russian language as "Americanisms" or cultural borrowings would start to be used.

In addition, most of the migrants would be men, assuming that many women would be afraid to leave the comfort of the progressive west for a more traditional culture and many conservative minded western men reject western women for obvious reasons. Therefore, it would change the dynamics of the Russian "dating market" in the country that already has the third highest divorce rate in the world.
 

Going strong

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
What @road_runner said is close to my understanding about Russia nowadays. Has Putin made any statements suggesting this new, ethnocentric Orthodox state you've been talking about? I remember an interview with him where he said that "anyone who goes around saying the Russia is for Russians only is an idiot because we're a multicultural federation." Anatoly Karlin on unz.com has written blog posts about how the FSB has basically crushed the dissident right ethnic nationalist movement in Russia and I've seen statements about the same from other dissident right Russian authors.

Even if Putin has done a 180 on his civic nationalism in favor of some kind of ethocentric theocracy, something I imagine the western MSM would have pounced on by now, we're still back to the problem that most of us are not Russian.

Yes, we know all this, about the old Russia. I know very well what was excellent or not good in the old Russia, having spent many Summers and a few Winters there, in the Russian Federation.

Ah, by the way, talking about the Russian Winters that frighten many people and were mentioned by another forum member on this page :

OK, but we're considering here moving to Russia or NovoRossiya (I indicated this precision in the first post).

So, Winter in Odessa is not terrifying, far from it.
Winter in Krasnodar or Sochi, would be perfectly reasonable, too, weather-wise.

And in any case, if you dislike cold Winters, do like Russians do, go spend January in Evpatoria or Phuket, cheap flights abound.

Anyway, back to your interesting last paragraph, @bucky .

I think that Putin has made this "180", actually 80 degrees turn. Just listen to his speeches since the beginning of the operation. It's all about restoring the greatness of Russian (Federation) traditional culture and History. It's very moving and exceptionally anti-Globalists.

And you're I think mistaken if you think that western MSM would have jumped on it. MSM absolutely needs to silence and memory-hole Putin's recent speeches. MSM won't analyse them publicly, they prefer to "cancel" them online.

In any case, in the new Russia, I'm absolutely sure that V. Putin will necessarily need to favor/take support from, the very religious Orthodox (or Muslims in Chechnia and other parts, all native cultures being respected). Because the 5th-Column of laicist "liberals" will furiously try to remove Putin from power, so Putin totally needs a new (or not so new actually) extremely passionate power base : the patriots, the faithful, those who love their culture and distrust Globalism.

So in the new Russia, the good, heterosexual, religious, patriotic people of many ethnicities, will certainly rule the land. It's the only way Russia thrives and Putin survives, too. The 5-Columnists, the Godless and gay/woke, will have to lay very very low, for minimum a few decades. Actually most 5th-Columnists have already left by private plane to Dubai, just after Putin's speech.
 
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Don Quixote

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
Would the Russian government really welcome a Zerg rush of white westerners who have zero drop of Russian blood in their veins, who dislike living in the U.S. despite the fact that they're trading for lower living standards, and think that converting to Orthodoxy is enough to make them qualify as Russian? A mass wave of migrants will be an economic shock to Russia, regardless if said migrants have an intention to assimilate and help Russians.
I would think Russia needs migration if it is to maintain its huge borders. I also think more people settling in Russia would promote economic growth. I'd say overall Russia stands to benefit from a more open migratory policy.
 

BarrontheTigercat

Kingfisher
Other Christian
I would think Russia needs migration if it is to maintain its huge borders. I also think more people settling in Russia would promote economic growth. I'd say overall Russia stands to benefit from a more open migratory policy.
I had this fantasy when the BLM "Summer of Madness" broke out in 2020.

Where can we go? was my dominant thought.
Where? Because anywhere in the West will be found out and the same forces will come for us there.
Anywhere in the 3rd World would be a short intermission at best, reying on the indulgence of an often silently hostile population.

So I hoped that Russia would want to populate its massive Eastern flank and would want willing people to locate there, much as Canada wants people willing to live in its Northern reaches.

So.. do an Australian style points based immigration system for Western European-stock Christians whose populations would gradually assimilate better than any other migrant.
Just as China flooded its newly acquired Mongolian territory with Chinese towns and cities, so Russia could build infrastructure which would enable a larger military presence in its vast wilderness East.

But on reflection this seemed at worst a delusional fantasy and at best a very, very complicated project.

One can dream..
 

Caramasão

Robin
Orthodox Inquirer
Why Christian families from America, Brazil, and Denmark are relocating to rural Russian villages a few hours north of Moscow:

 

Stoyan

Pelican
Orthodox
Thank you for linking to the website "Russian Faith". It looks like a very interesting and nice blog.

 

ScannerLIV

Woodpecker
Yes, we know all this, about the old Russia. I know very well what was excellent or not good in the old Russia, having spent many Summers and a few Winters there, in the Russian Federation.

Ah, by the way, talking about the Russian Winters that frighten many people and were mentioned by another forum member on this page :

OK, but we're considering here moving to Russia or NovoRossiya (I indicated this precision in the first post).

So, Winter in Odessa is not terrifying, far from it.
Winter in Krasnodar or Sochi, would be perfectly reasonable, too, weather-wise.

And in any case, if you dislike cold Winters, do like Russians do, go spend January in Evpatoria or Phuket, cheap flights abound.

Anyway, back to your interesting last paragraph, @bucky .

I think that Putin has made this "180", actually 80 degrees turn. Just listen to his speeches since the beginning of the operation. It's all about restoring the greatness of Russian (Federation) traditional culture and History. It's very moving and exceptionally anti-Globalists.

And you're I think mistaken if you think that western MSM would have jumped on it. MSM absolutely needs to silence and memory-hole Putin's recent speeches. MSM won't analyse them publicly, they prefer to "cancel" them online.

In any case, in the new Russia, I'm absolutely sure that V. Putin will necessarily need to favor/take support from, the very religious Orthodox (or Muslims in Chechnia and other parts, all native cultures being respected). Because the 5th-Column of laicist "liberals" will furiously try to remove Putin from power, so Putin totally needs a new (or not so new actually) extremely passionate power base : the patriots, the faithful, those who love their culture and distrust Globalism.

So in the new Russia, the good, heterosexual, religious, patriotic people of many ethnicities, will certainly rule the land. It's the only way Russia thrives and Putin survives, too. The 5-Columnists, the Godless and gay/woke, will have to lay very very low, for minimum a few decades. Actually most 5th-Columnists have already left by private plane to Dubai, just after Putin's speech.

I'd like to see all transcripts of his speech since the begining of the operation. Know where I can find them?
 
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