Cancer and Statistical Illusion

[Pepini]

Doctors are the third leading cause of death in the US:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/07/30/doctors-death-part-one.aspx

http://draxe.com/conventional-medicine-is-the-leading-cause-of-death/

 

[LaserBear]

First thought when I saw thread title.

 

[Texas_Tryhard]

Mercola is a fucking nutbag. Take off your tinfoil hat. He's not interested in providing facts, he's interested in providing statistics and abusing them to make a point.

You (and him) are doing one of those idiot things that people who don't understand statistics do. But, I'll play, since you're so adorable:

How many of those ~225,000 people who died from "doctors" would have died without doctor intervention?
How many additional people would have died if doctors disappeared tomorrow? (Hint: Since the two leading causes of death are both things that doctors attempt to treat, imagine if they just stopped treating them. Those numbers would be stratospheric)

Leading causes of death (not including the "doctors" figure):
Heart disease: 597,689
Cancer: 574,743
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
Diabetes: 69,071
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364

In order to be intellectually honest, you have to realize that doctors are dealing with very sick people, and making decisions that may not pan out. Notice that a significant number of those above are often quite treatable diseases. Imagine them shooting up catastrophically if you got rid of doctors tomorrow.

Including hospital infections and complications due to drugs is also stupid. While neither is great and researchers like myself are working to reduce these problems, you're ignoring the fact that this is a tradeoff. If you have a disease that will kill you if untreated, your choices are:

1. Have a relatively smaller risk of dying from infection at the hospital or from the treatment, or...
2. Don't treat it and die.

I hope this made it through the fog of bullshit that Mercola and other quacks have put over your eyes. I understand I was abrasive, but if you're really a lawyer, you should be intelligent enough to understand this without me spoon-feeding it to you, and it bothers me that I have to waste my time explaining this.

 

[The Beast1]

I truely despise doctors from the core of my being. I´m a lawyer I´m in it for the money, sometimes I help others but I´m in it for the money, status, lifestyle, etc, etc. I drive a Porsche, Michellin stars restaurants, 5 star hotels. It came to a point where I simply don´t give a fuck about the client. But when I screw clients I screw their money not health.

Doctors are exactly like me. You can lie yourself as I lied to me in the past.

Everybody when they start want to help others. But as time passes that line become more and more blurred and far. At one point everybody are in it for the money. You know why? Because we realise that somebody you helped can pass by you one year later, you could be starving and they won´t throw you a dime. Also you also realise the less you care for people the more money you make. Less principles = more money. I´m not talking about pennies, but real hard cash.

What I´ve witnessed in 10years practice makes me suspicious about everything. I smile at you while I´m screwing you. We become an empty shell. Which can be filled with any principle, business etc.
Everything else is fucking bullshit.

For doctor and pharmaceuticals. They are the scum of the earth. At one point I wanted to specialize in malpractice doctors lawsuits. But the simple fact is that to proove a malpractice you need another doctor/scum to issue an opinion.

Back to cancer. People look to doctors as gods or good people. And they forget the basic principle everybody are in it for the money. Some more other less. So doctors want money like me and most of the people on this forum. Pharmaceuticals also. If I do X I get 1000000$ if I do Y I get 10000. Which one should I do? I don´t really care if Y is better for the patient. Fuck the patient he will die anyway. Btw the patient is not really a person it´s a fucking number. If the number dies tomorrow or in 10 years it doesn´t affect me one bit. The only reason I will do Y and loose a ton of cash is if somebody forces me to. Since personally I don´t have any interest in it. More if I do X people will not judge me, since I can get away with it.

A medicine is a comodity. Between a pill and a steak there´s no difference. Between a doctor and a mechanic there´s no difference, besides the honours and other bullshit. You see how a mechanic makes up problems. The same with the doctor. Pharmaceuticals and doctors like somebody already said are businessman. Their goal is not your health. Let´s state this clearly the goal of a doctor of a pharmaceutical is not your health. It´s to make money out of your health. Period. The more sick you are the more money the make. If the treatment of your health is parallel with them making more money they will introduce a drug which benefits you. If not they won´t. It´s basic human nature at it´s best.

There´s a very famous story my grandfather used to tell me.
In a village there was a man who was constantly ill. He would go to the doctor every 2 month when he had a heavier health problem. Everytime he went there the doctor would prescribe a pain killer that would ease the symptoms for more two months. One day the old doctor retires and his son take his place. The same man with the same problem went to his practice. He checked him out and found a litle worm in the man´s head. He then with a small incision took the worm out. Prescribed some medicines, and totally cured the man from the disease. The doctor went to his father and say to him: Father that was such an easy disease to cure. It was only a small worm, which I took out. The father looked to his son and calmly said: well my son, since you cured the man, now prepare to feed yourself from the worm.

The basic principle is: people will only pay you when they have a problem. The moment the problem ends people will not show a small ounce of gratitude. So it´s in your interest that the problem lasts the most amount of time. The bigger the problem the more the people will need you.

Back to health and doctors and pharmaceuticals, the more time you´re sick the more time doctors and pharmaceuticals get money out of you. Simple to say if everybody were healthy doctors would not earn a dime.

Same goes with psychiatrics, etc, etc. Of course you can say. Well if you never treat a patient right he will not referal to you to others. That argument is only valid in the begining. In the begining people want to get a name and to the best for their clients. After a while the name is enough. And it´s time to rip off clients.

The medical establishment is so obscure that nobody talks about them. We talk about banks? for me banks are saints compared to doctors and pharmaceuticals. Because a bank will steal your money, but the doctors your health. And this is inadmissible. Maybe I´m still blue pill about this, but for me the fact that somebody can earn money from other deaths is still shocking. I stopped doing criminal law because I couldn´t make money from people freedom.

The reason they get away with this is because they hold you by the balls. They control your health, your most prize possesion. Also there´s real ignorance about how they work. When I sit in front of a doctor I feel I´m in front of a conman. When he prescribes me pills I feel I´m indirectly paying the next trip the pharmaceutical will pay him to dominican republic for a "congress". Yes a congress pharmaceuticals pay trips to doctors just because. I don´t get free trips from anybody.

Why is this allowed. Why da fuck isn´t a crime when pharmaceuticals pay doctors vacations?

I thought about studying medicine. I still do. It´s the only way I can´t get screwed me and my family. They say every family should have a doctor and a lawyer in it.

Civil society as a whole should take action against this state of affaires

Thanks for the Robb Wolf article. I´ve highlighted this paragraph:

"3BP is not the only promising player sitting on the bench. Other journal documented case studies exist of cancer patients ordering the handful of compounds known to target tumor metabolism from chemical supply houses and administer it to themselves – achieving complete and enduring remissions. One such study is of dichloroacetate (DCA), a metabolism targeting drug that received a spike of media attention after New Scientist magazine published an article titled “Cheap, ‘safe’ drug kills most cancers,” only to again fall to obscurity after funding proved nonexistent for the cheap drug."

As the son of a doctor who has worked 30 years in anesthesiology, i take offense to this.

My father works long hours because he enjoys it. He rarely takes vacation and works himself to the bone just like his brother and his grandfather. He's a quintessential workaholic. The thing that bugs him the most are when patients don't take the advise he gives them. He happily kicks people out when they don't listen to him and when someone "asks" for a drug he doesn't give it to them without some serious introspection.

The real question is, what doctor hurt you so badly that you're willing to project your own tar filled compexes onto people that do care?

 

[Pepini]

Mercola is a fucking nutbag. Take off your tinfoil hat. He's not interested in providing facts, he's interested in providing statistics and abusing them to make a point.

You (and him) are doing one of those idiot things that people who don't understand statistics do. But, I'll play, since you're so adorable:

How many of those ~225,000 people who died from "doctors" would have died without doctor intervention?
How many additional people would have died if doctors disappeared tomorrow? (Hint: Since the two leading causes of death are both things that doctors attempt to treat, imagine if they just stopped treating them. Those numbers would be stratospheric)

Leading causes of death (not including the "doctors" figure):
Heart disease: 597,689
Cancer: 574,743
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
Diabetes: 69,071
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364

In order to be intellectually honest, you have to realize that doctors are dealing with very sick people, and making decisions that may not pan out. Notice that a significant number of those above are often quite treatable diseases. Imagine them shooting up catastrophically if you got rid of doctors tomorrow.

Including hospital infections and complications due to drugs is also stupid. While neither is great and researchers like myself are working to reduce these problems, you're ignoring the fact that this is a tradeoff. If you have a disease that will kill you if untreated, your choices are:

1. Have a relatively smaller risk of dying from infection at the hospital or from the treatment, or...
2. Don't treat it and die.

I hope this made it through the fog of bullshit that Mercola and other quacks have put over your eyes. I understand I was abrasive, but if you're really a lawyer, you should be intelligent enough to understand this without me spoon-feeding it to you, and it bothers me that I have to waste my time explaining this.

Before a trial I warn the other lawyer: You should settle, because your going to loose. Some are smart the others loose.

Now I don´t go to court anymore. I draft corporate and real estate agreements cause the value/hour is higher. But I still miss to smash some feminist cunt and the occasional idiot.

The article was originally published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. You forgot to mention this adorable detail.

Actually Mercola admits it right in the beginning of his post:

"This article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)..."

You´re trying to put sand in other forum users eyes. Understand something my friend when I post here it´s because I think I can add value to others. Your post doesn´t since instead of giving a valued opinion instead blindfully you protect one of the most corrupt systems.

But I will kill this messenger and go directly to the first messenger:

HERE´S THE LINK OF THE JAMA ARTICLE:

http://www.jhsph.edu/research/cente...care-policy-center/Publications_PDFs/A154.pdf

I´ve just cut Mercola as the source of information and went directly to the original source, so please indulge me and explain me why should I wear a tinfoil hat for referring to one of the most prestigious medical publication?

And also since your here to explain me the facts of the world. Why didn´t you mention this fact on your post? Why did you try to dismiss the fact of a medical journal admiting doctors are the third leading cause of death? Why did you try to divert the attention to Mercola?

You see the article was actually written by a doctor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Starfield

So it´s an article written by a doctor published in one of the most influential medical journal. Oh my where did I leave my tinfoil hat...

Let´s quote what the doctor said in one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world:

"In any case, 225,000 deaths per year constitutes the third leading cause of death in the United States, after deaths from heart disease and cancer. Even if these figures are overestimated, there is a wide margin between these numbers of deaths and the next leading cause of death (cerebrovascular disease)." (1)

My goal is quite simple: every roosher should ask lots of opinions when they have a medical condition. Don´t be acritical of the medical establishment. They are SCUM. Lawyers are scum also. But we don´t pretend were some innocent princess trying to save the world. And when we fuck clients they´re pockets get smaller. When doctors do it, they send them to the grave.

At this point I already have a criminal lawsuit against doctors (nothing personal. A client paid me to do it). In the meeting I warned my client doctors they protect themselves. But I was no near the amount of shitty schemes these assholes pull. They look like litle bitches not assuming their guilt. Btw an oldwoman died because of their malpractice. Who cares right?

BTW I don´t give a fuck of what you do for a living. For me the only message I want to transmit here is: Don´t trust doctors. They are in it for the money. Always suspect what they advise you. Hell always suspect everybody. That´s why I didn´t blame Roosh for the jail prank. If you become a blind sheep why are you here? Don´t fucking trust nobody. Everybody wants a piece of your bank account. The principle companies follow is: find the sucker and drain him off.

Don´t trust doctors. Don´t think doctors are immune to error. Always ask more than one opinion. The more information you have the better judgement you will probably make.

Doctors see the weakness of the world, lawyers the evil.

You see I get to see what´s behind the curtains. It´s not always a good picture. But I like truth or at least logic.

I could send you a bill of legal fees. But this one I´m doing Pro Bono.

1 in "484 JAMA, July 26, 2000—Vol 284, No. 4 (Reprinted)" In honour to Roosh latest article.

 

[Pepini]

I truely despise doctors from the core of my being. I´m a lawyer I´m in it for the money, sometimes I help others but I´m in it for the money, status, lifestyle, etc, etc. I drive a Porsche, Michellin stars restaurants, 5 star hotels. It came to a point where I simply don´t give a fuck about the client. But when I screw clients I screw their money not health.

Doctors are exactly like me. You can lie yourself as I lied to me in the past.

Everybody when they start want to help others. But as time passes that line become more and more blurred and far. At one point everybody are in it for the money. You know why? Because we realise that somebody you helped can pass by you one year later, you could be starving and they won´t throw you a dime. Also you also realise the less you care for people the more money you make. Less principles = more money. I´m not talking about pennies, but real hard cash.

What I´ve witnessed in 10years practice makes me suspicious about everything. I smile at you while I´m screwing you. We become an empty shell. Which can be filled with any principle, business etc.
Everything else is fucking bullshit.

For doctor and pharmaceuticals. They are the scum of the earth. At one point I wanted to specialize in malpractice doctors lawsuits. But the simple fact is that to proove a malpractice you need another doctor/scum to issue an opinion.

Back to cancer. People look to doctors as gods or good people. And they forget the basic principle everybody are in it for the money. Some more other less. So doctors want money like me and most of the people on this forum. Pharmaceuticals also. If I do X I get 1000000$ if I do Y I get 10000. Which one should I do? I don´t really care if Y is better for the patient. Fuck the patient he will die anyway. Btw the patient is not really a person it´s a fucking number. If the number dies tomorrow or in 10 years it doesn´t affect me one bit. The only reason I will do Y and loose a ton of cash is if somebody forces me to. Since personally I don´t have any interest in it. More if I do X people will not judge me, since I can get away with it.

A medicine is a comodity. Between a pill and a steak there´s no difference. Between a doctor and a mechanic there´s no difference, besides the honours and other bullshit. You see how a mechanic makes up problems. The same with the doctor. Pharmaceuticals and doctors like somebody already said are businessman. Their goal is not your health. Let´s state this clearly the goal of a doctor of a pharmaceutical is not your health. It´s to make money out of your health. Period. The more sick you are the more money the make. If the treatment of your health is parallel with them making more money they will introduce a drug which benefits you. If not they won´t. It´s basic human nature at it´s best.

There´s a very famous story my grandfather used to tell me.
In a village there was a man who was constantly ill. He would go to the doctor every 2 month when he had a heavier health problem. Everytime he went there the doctor would prescribe a pain killer that would ease the symptoms for more two months. One day the old doctor retires and his son take his place. The same man with the same problem went to his practice. He checked him out and found a litle worm in the man´s head. He then with a small incision took the worm out. Prescribed some medicines, and totally cured the man from the disease. The doctor went to his father and say to him: Father that was such an easy disease to cure. It was only a small worm, which I took out. The father looked to his son and calmly said: well my son, since you cured the man, now prepare to feed yourself from the worm.

The basic principle is: people will only pay you when they have a problem. The moment the problem ends people will not show a small ounce of gratitude. So it´s in your interest that the problem lasts the most amount of time. The bigger the problem the more the people will need you.

Back to health and doctors and pharmaceuticals, the more time you´re sick the more time doctors and pharmaceuticals get money out of you. Simple to say if everybody were healthy doctors would not earn a dime.

Same goes with psychiatrics, etc, etc. Of course you can say. Well if you never treat a patient right he will not referal to you to others. That argument is only valid in the begining. In the begining people want to get a name and to the best for their clients. After a while the name is enough. And it´s time to rip off clients.

The medical establishment is so obscure that nobody talks about them. We talk about banks? for me banks are saints compared to doctors and pharmaceuticals. Because a bank will steal your money, but the doctors your health. And this is inadmissible. Maybe I´m still blue pill about this, but for me the fact that somebody can earn money from other deaths is still shocking. I stopped doing criminal law because I couldn´t make money from people freedom.

The reason they get away with this is because they hold you by the balls. They control your health, your most prize possesion. Also there´s real ignorance about how they work. When I sit in front of a doctor I feel I´m in front of a conman. When he prescribes me pills I feel I´m indirectly paying the next trip the pharmaceutical will pay him to dominican republic for a "congress". Yes a congress pharmaceuticals pay trips to doctors just because. I don´t get free trips from anybody.

Why is this allowed. Why da fuck isn´t a crime when pharmaceuticals pay doctors vacations?

I thought about studying medicine. I still do. It´s the only way I can´t get screwed me and my family. They say every family should have a doctor and a lawyer in it.

Civil society as a whole should take action against this state of affaires

Thanks for the Robb Wolf article. I´ve highlighted this paragraph:

"3BP is not the only promising player sitting on the bench. Other journal documented case studies exist of cancer patients ordering the handful of compounds known to target tumor metabolism from chemical supply houses and administer it to themselves – achieving complete and enduring remissions. One such study is of dichloroacetate (DCA), a metabolism targeting drug that received a spike of media attention after New Scientist magazine published an article titled “Cheap, ‘safe’ drug kills most cancers,” only to again fall to obscurity after funding proved nonexistent for the cheap drug."

As the son of a doctor who has worked 30 years in anesthesiology, i take offense to this.

My father works long hours because he enjoys it. He rarely takes vacation and works himself to the bone just like his brother and his grandfather. He's a quintessential workaholic. The thing that bugs him the most are when patients don't take the advise he gives them. He happily kicks people out when they don't listen to him and when someone "asks" for a drug he doesn't give it to them without some serious introspection.

The real question is, what doctor hurt you so badly that you're willing to project your own tar filled complexes onto people that do care?

One tree doesn´t make a forest.

 

[Texas_Tryhard]

Nice try. Argue the facts of my post or suck my dick. I never argued with the numbers, you're setting up a strawman. That might work amongst lawyers but you're going to have to do better against me.

 

[Pepini]

Nice try. Argue the facts of my post or suck my dick. I never argued with the numbers, you're setting up a strawman. That might work amongst lawyers but you're going to have to do better against me.

You think I´m going against you litle shit?

The strawman in this debate is Mercola. The original argument is an article written in JAMA stating doctors are the third leading cause of death in US.

You see you´ve just mistakenly wrote a piece of trash. And doctors can do also. You´ve posted on an internet forum. No harm done. If a doctor fails a treatment because he´s being paid for it. That is unacceptable.

http://www.firstwordpharma.com/node/1090884?tsid=12#axzz30Jrpwzin

http://projects.propublica.org/docd...014/apr/14/gsk-accused-bribing-doctors-poland

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013-12/18/content_17180822.htm

http://www.economist.com/news/busin...s-between-doctors-and-drug-firms-let-sunshine

Just a five minute google made AFTER the posts. You can continue the list of google:

https://www.google.pt/search?q=doct...e&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8#q=doctors+bribed&start=10


Everybody know this. Like everybody knew smoking was bad for your health. There will be a tipping point and these criminals will be put to jail. When the numbness ends.

Btw as a disclaimer I don´t have a medical condition. Neither any close relative.

When my son was born. The senior partner of my first law firm called me. Here´s what he said:

"Be careful with the nurses. They are being paid by a large artificial milk retailer to put artificial milk in the baby´s mouths, so that they become dependent of it and reject the mothers milk."

Guess who was this lawyer best client...

There´s a story about a famous criminal law teacher in Germany. He had to go on surgery. All doctors refused because they were scared to death of making a mistake. When I´m in front of a doctor I always say I´m a lawyer, so that they think twice before screwing me.

 

[Texas_Tryhard]

Some more numbers. Try not to get scared, I know logic seems to rattle your cage.

$1,000,000,000/878,194 = $1,138.70
Dollars paid by pharma (2012) / number of licensed physicians (2012) = dollars paid per physician

In order for your evil doctor theory to be true, doctors are selling their souls for $1,138.70. Either that, or you're wrong, and a tiny minority of doctors are being given a vast majority of the pharma money (bribes). I'd agree with that, personally. A few doctors are corrupt. Congrats on proving nothing, yet again.

Maybe you should get another job. At least this explains why you gave up trying cases.

I also noticed you're still ignoring my first post and pretending I was arguing that your numbers were fake. Weird.

Important content EDIT: Most of this was for clinical trials, aka, funding so that the doctors can perform the research necessary to get the drug approved. This is even more laughable. You're going to have to try misleading stupid people with numbers, because it's not working on me and it's not working on any of the people on this forum, who are typically extremely capable of reading between the lines.

 

[The Beast1]

I truely despise doctors from the core of my being. I´m a lawyer I´m in it for the money, sometimes I help others but I´m in it for the money, status, lifestyle, etc, etc. I drive a Porsche, Michellin stars restaurants, 5 star hotels. It came to a point where I simply don´t give a fuck about the client. But when I screw clients I screw their money not health.

Doctors are exactly like me. You can lie yourself as I lied to me in the past.

Everybody when they start want to help others. But as time passes that line become more and more blurred and far. At one point everybody are in it for the money. You know why? Because we realise that somebody you helped can pass by you one year later, you could be starving and they won´t throw you a dime. Also you also realise the less you care for people the more money you make. Less principles = more money. I´m not talking about pennies, but real hard cash.

What I´ve witnessed in 10years practice makes me suspicious about everything. I smile at you while I´m screwing you. We become an empty shell. Which can be filled with any principle, business etc.
Everything else is fucking bullshit.

For doctor and pharmaceuticals. They are the scum of the earth. At one point I wanted to specialize in malpractice doctors lawsuits. But the simple fact is that to proove a malpractice you need another doctor/scum to issue an opinion.

Back to cancer. People look to doctors as gods or good people. And they forget the basic principle everybody are in it for the money. Some more other less. So doctors want money like me and most of the people on this forum. Pharmaceuticals also. If I do X I get 1000000$ if I do Y I get 10000. Which one should I do? I don´t really care if Y is better for the patient. Fuck the patient he will die anyway. Btw the patient is not really a person it´s a fucking number. If the number dies tomorrow or in 10 years it doesn´t affect me one bit. The only reason I will do Y and loose a ton of cash is if somebody forces me to. Since personally I don´t have any interest in it. More if I do X people will not judge me, since I can get away with it.

A medicine is a comodity. Between a pill and a steak there´s no difference. Between a doctor and a mechanic there´s no difference, besides the honours and other bullshit. You see how a mechanic makes up problems. The same with the doctor. Pharmaceuticals and doctors like somebody already said are businessman. Their goal is not your health. Let´s state this clearly the goal of a doctor of a pharmaceutical is not your health. It´s to make money out of your health. Period. The more sick you are the more money the make. If the treatment of your health is parallel with them making more money they will introduce a drug which benefits you. If not they won´t. It´s basic human nature at it´s best.

There´s a very famous story my grandfather used to tell me.
In a village there was a man who was constantly ill. He would go to the doctor every 2 month when he had a heavier health problem. Everytime he went there the doctor would prescribe a pain killer that would ease the symptoms for more two months. One day the old doctor retires and his son take his place. The same man with the same problem went to his practice. He checked him out and found a litle worm in the man´s head. He then with a small incision took the worm out. Prescribed some medicines, and totally cured the man from the disease. The doctor went to his father and say to him: Father that was such an easy disease to cure. It was only a small worm, which I took out. The father looked to his son and calmly said: well my son, since you cured the man, now prepare to feed yourself from the worm.

The basic principle is: people will only pay you when they have a problem. The moment the problem ends people will not show a small ounce of gratitude. So it´s in your interest that the problem lasts the most amount of time. The bigger the problem the more the people will need you.

Back to health and doctors and pharmaceuticals, the more time you´re sick the more time doctors and pharmaceuticals get money out of you. Simple to say if everybody were healthy doctors would not earn a dime.

Same goes with psychiatrics, etc, etc. Of course you can say. Well if you never treat a patient right he will not referal to you to others. That argument is only valid in the begining. In the begining people want to get a name and to the best for their clients. After a while the name is enough. And it´s time to rip off clients.

The medical establishment is so obscure that nobody talks about them. We talk about banks? for me banks are saints compared to doctors and pharmaceuticals. Because a bank will steal your money, but the doctors your health. And this is inadmissible. Maybe I´m still blue pill about this, but for me the fact that somebody can earn money from other deaths is still shocking. I stopped doing criminal law because I couldn´t make money from people freedom.

The reason they get away with this is because they hold you by the balls. They control your health, your most prize possesion. Also there´s real ignorance about how they work. When I sit in front of a doctor I feel I´m in front of a conman. When he prescribes me pills I feel I´m indirectly paying the next trip the pharmaceutical will pay him to dominican republic for a "congress". Yes a congress pharmaceuticals pay trips to doctors just because. I don´t get free trips from anybody.

Why is this allowed. Why da fuck isn´t a crime when pharmaceuticals pay doctors vacations?

I thought about studying medicine. I still do. It´s the only way I can´t get screwed me and my family. They say every family should have a doctor and a lawyer in it.

Civil society as a whole should take action against this state of affaires

Thanks for the Robb Wolf article. I´ve highlighted this paragraph:

"3BP is not the only promising player sitting on the bench. Other journal documented case studies exist of cancer patients ordering the handful of compounds known to target tumor metabolism from chemical supply houses and administer it to themselves – achieving complete and enduring remissions. One such study is of dichloroacetate (DCA), a metabolism targeting drug that received a spike of media attention after New Scientist magazine published an article titled “Cheap, ‘safe’ drug kills most cancers,” only to again fall to obscurity after funding proved nonexistent for the cheap drug."

As the son of a doctor who has worked 30 years in anesthesiology, i take offense to this.

My father works long hours because he enjoys it. He rarely takes vacation and works himself to the bone just like his brother and his grandfather. He's a quintessential workaholic. The thing that bugs him the most are when patients don't take the advise he gives them. He happily kicks people out when they don't listen to him and when someone "asks" for a drug he doesn't give it to them without some serious introspection.

The real question is, what doctor hurt you so badly that you're willing to project your own tar filled complexes onto people that do care?

One tree doesn´t make a forest.

In the time that i've been here, i've never seen such a post filled with such a dark posion.

Again i ask, what doctor hurt you so badly that you're willing to project such evil on an entire group of people?

It only took one jew to piss off Hitler...

 

[Kvothe]

If you want a good book about the molecular basis of cancer, you can start with this:


Molecular Biology of Cancer: Mechanisms, Targets, and Therapeutics


If you have any questions about regarding the molecular basis of cancer, just shoot. I will try my best.

 

[Pepini]

Some more numbers. Try not to get scared, I know logic seems to rattle your cage.

$1,000,000,000/878,194 = $1,138.70
Dollars paid by pharma (2012) / number of licensed physicians (2012) = dollars paid per physician

In order for your evil doctor theory to be true, doctors are selling their souls for $1,138.70. Either that, or you're wrong, and a tiny minority of doctors are being given a vast majority of the pharma money (bribes). I'd agree with that, personally. A few doctors are corrupt. Congrats on proving nothing, yet again.

Maybe you should get another job. At least this explains why you gave up trying cases.

I also noticed you're still ignoring my first post and pretending I was arguing that your numbers were fake. Weird.

Important content EDIT: Most of this was for clinical trials, aka, funding so that the doctors can perform the research necessary to get the drug approved. This is even more laughable. You're going to have to try misleading stupid people with numbers, because it's not working on me and it's not working on any of the people on this forum, who are typically extremely capable of reading between the lines.

So every phisycian got paid $1,138.70. Damn man was I wrong. I gotta hand it to you. The pharma company board decided that they should bribe all physicians AND deliver all a pay of $1,138.70. This exact amount was delivered to physicians one by one.
Just exactly how was it? They delivered a check of $1,138.70 or an envelope with cash in it?

Do you believe on your own vomit? You argument is so absurd. So in your mind every physician received $1,138.70?

Is that it? every physician received on his account $1,138.70? Is this what your saying?

You dumbfuck of course this was not equally paid. It´s obvious this money wasn´t handed to a small number of phisycians.

A small minority receives the bribes. This you got right. If I wanted all the doctors of a hospital to follow a policy who would I bribe?
if you want a policy to be implemented you bribe the board members and maybe if it´s necessary the midle management. They will implement the policy. The other physicians will follow their rules even if they disagree.
The minority who gets the cash is and always will be the top of the pyramid.

So let´s get some conclusions here:

1 - A prestigious medical journal publishes an article written by a doctor stating doctors are the third leading cause of death in US.

2 - It´s a prooven fact that doctors are bribed by pharmas to prescribe certain types of medication.

What is this? Are you stupid? or just gullible?

 

[Texas_Tryhard]

...At this point I assume you're trolling. Either that or your reading comprehension is so poor that it is unfortunately impossible to have a discussion with you.

Go back, reread what I was saying, and keep reading it until it sinks in how bad you just failed.

I understand that English is likely your second language but your writing and reading levels are simply not high enough to reasonably communicate with you.

 

[The Beast1]

Some more numbers. Try not to get scared, I know logic seems to rattle your cage.

$1,000,000,000/878,194 = $1,138.70
Dollars paid by pharma (2012) / number of licensed physicians (2012) = dollars paid per physician

In order for your evil doctor theory to be true, doctors are selling their souls for $1,138.70. Either that, or you're wrong, and a tiny minority of doctors are being given a vast majority of the pharma money (bribes). I'd agree with that, personally. A few doctors are corrupt. Congrats on proving nothing, yet again.

Maybe you should get another job. At least this explains why you gave up trying cases.

I also noticed you're still ignoring my first post and pretending I was arguing that your numbers were fake. Weird.

Important content EDIT: Most of this was for clinical trials, aka, funding so that the doctors can perform the research necessary to get the drug approved. This is even more laughable. You're going to have to try misleading stupid people with numbers, because it's not working on me and it's not working on any of the people on this forum, who are typically extremely capable of reading between the lines.

So every phisycian got paid $1,138.70. Damn man was I wrong. I gotta hand it to you. The pharma company board decided that they should bribe all physicians AND deliver all a pay of $1,138.70. This exact amount was delivered to physicians one by one.
Just exactly how was it? They delivered a check of $1,138.70 or an envelope with cash in it?

Do you believe on your own vomit? You argument is so absurd. So in your mind every physician received $1,138.70?

Is that it? every physician received on his account $1,138.70? Is this what your saying?

You dumbfuck of course this was not equally paid. It´s obvious this money wasn´t handed to a small number of phisycians.

A small minority receives the bribes. This you got right. If I wanted all the doctors of a hospital to follow a policy who would I bribe?
if you want a policy to be implemented you bribe the board members and maybe if it´s necessary the midle management. They will implement the policy. The other physicians will follow their rules even if they disagree.
The minority who gets the cash is and always will be the top of the pyramid.

So let´s get some conclusions here:

1 - A prestigious medical journal publishes an article written by a doctor stating doctors are the third leading cause of death in US.

2 - It´s a prooven fact that doctors are bribed by pharmas to prescribe certain types of medication.

What is this? Are you stupid? or just gullible?

The fact you haven't answered me is troubling. I hope that the doctor that hurt you recieved his just reward. However as the parable goes, be careful Icarus.

 

[Modry]

Before a trial I warn the other lawyer: You should settle, because your going to loose. Some are smart the others loose.

Now I don´t go to court anymore. I draft corporate and real estate agreements cause the value/hour is higher. But I still miss to smash some feminist cunt and the occasional idiot.

The article was originally published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. You forgot to mention this adorable detail.

Actually Mercola admits it right in the beginning of his post:

"This article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)..."

You´re trying to put sand in other forum users eyes. Understand something my friend when I post here it´s because I think I can add value to others. Your post doesn´t since instead of giving a valued opinion instead blindfully you protect one of the most corrupt systems.

But I will kill this messenger and go directly to the first messenger:

HERE´S THE LINK OF THE JAMA ARTICLE:

http://www.jhsph.edu/research/cente...care-policy-center/Publications_PDFs/A154.pdf

I´ve just cut Mercola as the source of information and went directly to the original source, so please indulge me and explain me why should I wear a tinfoil hat for referring to one of the most prestigious medical publication?

And also since your here to explain me the facts of the world. Why didn´t you mention this fact on your post? Why did you try to dismiss the fact of a medical journal admiting doctors are the third leading cause of death? Why did you try to divert the attention to Mercola?

You see the article was actually written by a doctor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Starfield

So it´s an article written by a doctor published in one of the most influential medical journal. Oh my where did I leave my tinfoil hat...

Let´s quote what the doctor said in one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world:

"In any case, 225,000 deaths per year constitutes the third leading cause of death in the United States, after deaths from heart disease and cancer. Even if these figures are overestimated, there is a wide margin between these numbers of deaths and the next leading cause of death (cerebrovascular disease)." (1)

My goal is quite simple: every roosher should ask lots of opinions when they have a medical condition. Don´t be acritical of the medical establishment. They are SCUM. Lawyers are scum also. But we don´t pretend were some innocent princess trying to save the world. And when we fuck clients they´re pockets get smaller. When doctors do it, they send them to the grave.

At this point I already have a criminal lawsuit against doctors (nothing personal. A client paid me to do it). In the meeting I warned my client doctors they protect themselves. But I was no near the amount of shitty schemes these assholes pull. They look like litle bitches not assuming their guilt. Btw an oldwoman died because of their malpractice. Who cares right?

BTW I don´t give a fuck of what you do for a living. For me the only message I want to transmit here is: Don´t trust doctors. They are in it for the money. Always suspect what they advise you. Hell always suspect everybody. That´s why I didn´t blame Roosh for the jail prank. If you become a blind sheep why are you here? Don´t fucking trust nobody. Everybody wants a piece of your bank account. The principle companies follow is: find the sucker and drain him off.

Don´t trust doctors. Don´t think doctors are immune to error. Always ask more than one opinion. The more information you have the better judgement you will probably make.

Doctors see the weakness of the world, lawyers the evil.

You see I get to see what´s behind the curtains. It´s not always a good picture. But I like truth or at least logic.

I could send you a bill of legal fees. But this one I´m doing Pro Bono.

1 in "484 JAMA, July 26, 2000—Vol 284, No. 4 (Reprinted)" In honour to Roosh latest article.

A couple of counterpoints:

1. These deaths are from hospital errors and non-errors combatting every disease, compared to individual groups of diseases. If you compared e.g. the risk of dying from a cardiovascular disease to the risk of dying from the treatment of the CVD, the number would have been far less frightening.

2. Of the 225 000 deaths, 106 000 are from non-error adverse effects of the medications (why are these even included?), and 80 000 from nosocomial infections, which are hard to prevent (and there is continuous effort trying to reduce the incidence in virtually every hospital). The remaining errors, medication errors/unnecessary surgery/other errors, make up 39 000 (or more than double that if you use the IOM numbers. The same point still applies). Only the "remaining errors" could have been reduced by hypothetically double checking, asking for a second opinion and micromanaging the doctors in every decision they make.

 

[Pepini]

Some more numbers. Try not to get scared, I know logic seems to rattle your cage.

$1,000,000,000/878,194 = $1,138.70
Dollars paid by pharma (2012) / number of licensed physicians (2012) = dollars paid per physician

In order for your evil doctor theory to be true, doctors are selling their souls for $1,138.70. Either that, or you're wrong, and a tiny minority of doctors are being given a vast majority of the pharma money (bribes). I'd agree with that, personally. A few doctors are corrupt. Congrats on proving nothing, yet again.

Maybe you should get another job. At least this explains why you gave up trying cases.

I also noticed you're still ignoring my first post and pretending I was arguing that your numbers were fake. Weird.

Important content EDIT: Most of this was for clinical trials, aka, funding so that the doctors can perform the research necessary to get the drug approved. This is even more laughable. You're going to have to try misleading stupid people with numbers, because it's not working on me and it's not working on any of the people on this forum, who are typically extremely capable of reading between the lines.

So every phisycian got paid $1,138.70. Damn man was I wrong. I gotta hand it to you. The pharma company board decided that they should bribe all physicians AND deliver all a pay of $1,138.70. This exact amount was delivered to physicians one by one.
Just exactly how was it? They delivered a check of $1,138.70 or an envelope with cash in it?

Do you believe on your own vomit? You argument is so absurd. So in your mind every physician received $1,138.70?

Is that it? every physician received on his account $1,138.70? Is this what your saying?

You dumbfuck of course this was not equally paid. It´s obvious this money wasn´t handed to a small number of phisycians.

A small minority receives the bribes. This you got right. If I wanted all the doctors of a hospital to follow a policy who would I bribe?
if you want a policy to be implemented you bribe the board members and maybe if it´s necessary the midle management. They will implement the policy. The other physicians will follow their rules even if they disagree.
The minority who gets the cash is and always will be the top of the pyramid.

So let´s get some conclusions here:

1 - A prestigious medical journal publishes an article written by a doctor stating doctors are the third leading cause of death in US.

2 - It´s a prooven fact that doctors are bribed by pharmas to prescribe certain types of medication.

What is this? Are you stupid? or just gullible?

The fact you haven't answered me is troubling. I hope that the doctor that hurt you recieved his just reward. However as the parable goes, be careful Icarus.

I have two doctors in my family. Unfortunately both live in a different country. Two of my close friends are doctors also. One of them met Roosh in Rio.

I don´t have any trauma with doctors. My grandmother died of cancer. I didn´t blame the doctors. For me it was and still is a fact of life. Just be careful dealing with them. Don´t put them on a pedestal. Nobody deserves to be in a pedestal. Doctors are humans. I dislike the narrative of taking away human nature and it´s natural negative traits from the medical establishment. It reminds of communism. When you take away human nature from things, ignore it or just refuse to acknowledge it you become a easy prey for those who don´t.

My intention is also not to cast a dark shadow on the entire medical establishment like always there are exceptions.
You want one in my grandparents village a retired doctor posted a sign on his door: "Free consultations every saturday morning."

This person deserves my respect. And I will probably follow his footstep when I retire.

 

[The Beast1]

Some more numbers. Try not to get scared, I know logic seems to rattle your cage.

$1,000,000,000/878,194 = $1,138.70
Dollars paid by pharma (2012) / number of licensed physicians (2012) = dollars paid per physician

In order for your evil doctor theory to be true, doctors are selling their souls for $1,138.70. Either that, or you're wrong, and a tiny minority of doctors are being given a vast majority of the pharma money (bribes). I'd agree with that, personally. A few doctors are corrupt. Congrats on proving nothing, yet again.

Maybe you should get another job. At least this explains why you gave up trying cases.

I also noticed you're still ignoring my first post and pretending I was arguing that your numbers were fake. Weird.

Important content EDIT: Most of this was for clinical trials, aka, funding so that the doctors can perform the research necessary to get the drug approved. This is even more laughable. You're going to have to try misleading stupid people with numbers, because it's not working on me and it's not working on any of the people on this forum, who are typically extremely capable of reading between the lines.

So every phisycian got paid $1,138.70. Damn man was I wrong. I gotta hand it to you. The pharma company board decided that they should bribe all physicians AND deliver all a pay of $1,138.70. This exact amount was delivered to physicians one by one.
Just exactly how was it? They delivered a check of $1,138.70 or an envelope with cash in it?

Do you believe on your own vomit? You argument is so absurd. So in your mind every physician received $1,138.70?

Is that it? every physician received on his account $1,138.70? Is this what your saying?

You dumbfuck of course this was not equally paid. It´s obvious this money wasn´t handed to a small number of phisycians.

A small minority receives the bribes. This you got right. If I wanted all the doctors of a hospital to follow a policy who would I bribe?
if you want a policy to be implemented you bribe the board members and maybe if it´s necessary the midle management. They will implement the policy. The other physicians will follow their rules even if they disagree.
The minority who gets the cash is and always will be the top of the pyramid.

So let´s get some conclusions here:

1 - A prestigious medical journal publishes an article written by a doctor stating doctors are the third leading cause of death in US.

2 - It´s a prooven fact that doctors are bribed by pharmas to prescribe certain types of medication.

What is this? Are you stupid? or just gullible?

The fact you haven't answered me is troubling. I hope that the doctor that hurt you recieved his just reward. However as the parable goes, be careful Icarus.

I have two doctors in my family. Unfortunately both live in a different country. Two of my close friends are doctors also. One of them met Roosh in Rio.

I don´t have any trauma with doctors. My grandmother died of cancer. I didn´t blame the doctors. For me it was and still is a fact of life. Just be careful dealing with them. Don´t put them on a pedestal. Nobody deserves to be in a pedestal. Doctors are humans. I dislike the narrative of taking away human nature and it´s natural negative traits from the medical establishment. It reminds of communism. When you take away human nature from things, ignore it or just refuse to acknowledge it you become a easy prey for those who don´t.

My intention is also not to cast a dark shadow on the entire medical establishment like always there are exceptions.
You want one in my grandparents village a retired doctor posted a sign on his door: "Free consultations every saturday morning."

This person deserves my respect. And I will probably follow his footstep when I retire.

From your previous posts brother that is exactly what you did (paint the entire medical establishment as self serving and evil). Believe me there are a few "trees" in the forest that do exactly the stuff that you described and are quite deserving of your vitrol and hate as well as being the subject of your own lawyering abilities.

You're a good man, just be careful that you don't find yourself becoming the very thing you hate.

 

[cardguy]

Cheers - Texas_Tryhard! I have just had a chance to check out your posts (I have being away for a week).

Interesting stuff - I don't have much more to add to this thread, without going round in circles.

So - I will let what I have written stand. I think there may be some good points buried in there - along with some retarded ones (always a problem with my writing when I go on a rant!)

Still - I can add a relevant link. There is talk now of removing the label 'cancer' as regards slow growing tumours (and using the label 'IDLE' instead). As a way of reassuring patients since these tumours are rarely lethal. I think this is a wise thing to do and will help balance peoples perceptions of how the battle against cancer is going. And to prevent the prevalence of over diagnosis - which was one of the concerns I raised in my original post.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303417104579542220858916560

Anyway Texas_Tryhard - I really enjoyed your input. Even though most of it was calling me out for being an idiot!

Don't worry I am used to that by now - lol. I was hoping to have more medical experts in this thread - so your input was something I was hoping for. Thanks once again for your posts...

 

[Texas_Tryhard]

I'm not calling you an idiot, I'm merely making a point that it's best to avoid making assertions in a field you're not knowledgeable about. Being intellectually curious is never a bad thing, but it should always be tempered with true humility; not just in words but in actions as well.

Over-diagnosis is a problem, but it is almost always better to be overcautious when you're dealing with cancer rather than underestimate its lethality.

The problem with the assertion that certain (slow-growing) cancer types are rarely lethal is that it is ignoring confounding factors. I'll just list two for the sake of brevity (still gonna be a long post), with the added comment that although we now realize that certain tumors are not necessarily dangerous, it was impossible for the medical field to differentiate them from more lethal tumors until recently, after the advent and proliferation of molecular subtyping. Survival data can be particularly difficult to track, as this requires patient consent at the time of diagnosis, and must be followed up on for years in order to determine exactly how lethal it is. Furthermore, patients often stop responding for whatever personal reasons. Statistical concerns also crop up. For example, if a patient leaves the hospital and then gets into a fatal car accident 4 years down the road, it's really not accurate to say that he would not have gotten cancer, correct? We can't really be sure. This sort of censored data is complicated to interpret. Even researchers who have come up with great statistical tools to tease out information from censored data types admit that the results are not always clinically relevant or useful (see Cox's paper on his proportional hazards model).

1. Only recently have we begun to discover tumors at an early stage. We have not examined the development of these tumors over time, but what we do know is that oftentimes cancer in older patients happens as a result of accumulated errors in DNA. These can range from DNA mutations, copy number changes, messenger RNA regulatory changes, micro-RNA alterations, and most recently, DNA or histone methylation and long non-coding RNA modifications as well as structural variations (this is not an exhaustive list). I don't want to get in to each one, but the problem is that characterizing all of these molecular profiles over time is INSANELY expensive, on the order of tens of thousands of dollars per patient per sample, and removing tumor tissue over time simply hasn't been done and wouldn't be approved by a medical review board. Therefor, it's very difficult to say whether or not these low-risk tumors would eventually accumulate deadly mutations, as we truly don't know. What we do know is that we can remove a lot of these pseudo-benign tumors and not risk the patient's life on a hunch.

2. Many of the tumors you're discussing are exceedingly rare. We're talking about hundreds of cases per year. Gathering any sort of meaningful data (of the types above, as well as survival data) in order to make statistically relevant assertions is ridiculously hard.

The second point is why I was very harsh on you. By casting doubt on the medical field from a position of relative ignorance, you may be inadvertently causing readers to distrust the medical establishment, which *FOR THE MOST PART* is there with the specific aim of turning a sickly person into a healthy person. Distrust in the medical establishment causes us to be unable to gather data (as it's all on a consent basis) and hampers our ability to save lives. You have to be sensitive to the fact that readers of this board are the type to be critical of established doctrines, which is great, but in this case it is mostly misplaced. That is why, in short, I was so adamant about shutting down the misplaced doubt that this thread was kind of heading toward.

 

[cardguy]

Quick newbie question about cancer.

I know a few people who had a tumour cut out - which then came back and killed them.

I'm just curious - why can't you just keep cutting the tumour out (every few months if need be?). Instead of letting it come back and kill somebody.

Is it that cancers mutate and change over time? So - it is not a case of simply cutting out the same tumour every few months - like you would pulling weeds out of the same part of the garden?