Captain Capitalism video rebutting Paul Krugman

[Ryre]

Actually Krugman's primary recommendation for Greece is for Germany/the EU to allow some inflation. There's a thing called price stickiness. It's particularly powerful when it comes to wages. In a frictionless economy, if a nation was overspending and everyone needed to take a pay cut, wages could just be slashed by 10% across the board. But think how that has to work in a real economy. Each boss has to realize that he needs to cut wages. Then he needs to go around to each worker and inform them their pay is being cut. Some people may have contracts that prevent that. Others will go on strike. A messy, cumbersome process.

Now imagine that the EU was allowing 4% inflation (pretty moderate). In a nation that was doing well, like Germany, people would get 4% raises too, and relative buying power would stay the same. Whereas in Greece, wages could stay flat. Everyone's taking a 4% haircut, but without all the messiness of individual wage negotiations, etc.

This is normally what countries do when they get in a little over their heads--they let the currency devalue a little. Everyone's buying power falls a little across the board, prices right themselves, and you move on. Greece's problem is the Euro straightjacket prevents them from doing the natural correction.

Ryre, I won't pretend to be nearly as plugged in as you and there may be something I missed, particularity more recently.

But this is the Krugman quote I was keying off of that he recently said (just after the referendum):

But the key point is that the austerity ended up being not just incredibly painful but completely futile, because it wasn’t accompanied by massive debt relief.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/07/debt-deflation-in-greece/

He's also said, to my recollection, "Greek debt is just a number on a page" held by laregly unethical creditors, who must forgive to achieve some semblance of a return on their loans (couldn't find that quote readily).

To my mind, forgiveness is a powerfully perverse incentive, even in combination with other "reforms", assuming the reforms would ever be accepted by the Greek populace. You're bound to end up in the exact place you started from.

But as before, I am just a layman...

Yeah, I'm not saying he hasn't talked about debt relief for Greece, just that his main theme seems to me to be the way the strictures of the Euro have made Greek recovery impossible. But I haven't followed the Greek crisis very closely or read everything he's written on it.

P.S. Did a little quick reading on his blog. He talks about debt relief in the context of austerity. Austerity caused the Greek economy to shrink radically. If not accompanied by debt relief, this means that the ratio of debt to GDP deteriorates, the same way that your mortgage feels a lot bigger if your income drops from 100k to 60k. I think Krugman's lesson is if you are going to insist that a debtor state crash its GDP with a harsh austerity program, you'd better provide some debt relief.

 

[not_dead_yet]

First off, there is no Nobel for Economics, Mr. Respect-Mah-Authoritah. Feel free to respond once you've figured out why.

Yes there is. http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economic-sciences/laureates/

Did you even read the webpage you linked to?

Every other prize is "The Nobel Prize in Physics/Chemistry/Peace/etc." because it was funded by Alfred Nobel in his will. What you call the Nobel in Economics is really the "The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel." The short version is that a bunch of hacks in a pseudoscience hijacked Nobel's good name to give themselves and their field a credibility that they don't deserve.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, right? That's why I'm starting the "not_dead_yet Prize in Pickup Theory in Memory of Alfred Nobel," which you can call the Nobel in Game.

I'll be awarding it to someone later this year, probably not you.

 

[Collide]

Here is the recent Freedomfest debate between Steve Moore and Paul Krugman. I haven't watched it yet because it was just uploaded, I'll give my immediate thoughts later.



The discussion begins at the 4 minute mark.

 

[Ryre]

First off, there is no Nobel for Economics, Mr. Respect-Mah-Authoritah. Feel free to respond once you've figured out why.

Yes there is. http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economic-sciences/laureates/

Did you even read the webpage you linked to?

Every other prize is "The Nobel Prize in Physics/Chemistry/Peace/etc." because it was funded by Alfred Nobel in his will. What you call the Nobel in Economics is really the "The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel." The short version is that a bunch of hacks in a pseudoscience hijacked Nobel's good name to give themselves and their field a credibility that they don't deserve.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, right? That's why I'm starting the "not_dead_yet Prize in Pickup Theory in Memory of Alfred Nobel," which you can call the Nobel in Game.

I'll be awarding it to someone later this year, probably not you.

Huh, so when I go to the Nobel Prize website and it lists a prize in Economic Science right alone with physics, medicine, chemistry, etc. (check the dropdown for "Nobel Prizes and Laureates"), that isn't a Nobel Prize? Sounds like you want the Nobel Prize to be limited to the original categories. Unfortunately the Nobel Prize organization disagrees, and is going to keep giving out Nobel Prizes in economics.

"The Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences (officially Swedish: Sveriges riksbanks pris i ekonomisk vetenskap till Alfred Nobels minne, or the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel), commonly referred to as the Nobel Prize in Economics,[1] and as a "category of the Nobel Prize" by the Nobel Foundation itself,[2] which owns the name Nobel Prize,[3][4] is an award for outstanding contributions to the field of economics, and generally regarded as the most prestigious award for that field.[5] It is not one of the prizes that Alfred Nobel established in his will in 1895, but instead was established 73 years later by a donation to the foundation from Sweden's central bank, the Sveriges Riksbank, on the bank's 300th anniversary.[5][6][7][8] Winners are announced with the Nobel Prize winners, and receive the award at the same ceremony.[5]

Relation to the Nobel Prizes[edit]
The Prize in Economics is not one of the original Nobel Prizes created by Alfred Nobel's will.[5][17][18] However, the nomination process, selection criteria, and awards presentation of the Prize in Economic Sciences are performed in a manner similar to that of the Nobel Prizes.[9][14][19] The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences awards the prize "in accordance with the rules governing the award of the Nobel Prizes instituted through his [Alfred Nobel's] will,"[9] which stipulate that the prize be awarded annually to "those who ... shall have conferred the greatest benefit on mankind."[20]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Memorial_Prize_in_Economic_Sciences

I like your idea for a pickup prize, but you might get into trouble with the whole "Nobel Foundation...which owns the name Nobel Prize" part. Otherwise you're good man!

 

[Ryre]

Made the mistake of clicking on a Captain Capitalism post again. Attempting to show that climate change/global warming is a leftist hoax, he claims that we don't hear about the hole in the ozone layer/ozone depletion anymore because it "proved to be another leftist bogus scare tactic."

Wrong. We don't hear about the hole in the ozone layer anymore because effective regulation of CFC's/development of alternatives fixed the problem and the hole is now closing. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-05/07/ozone-hole

Is there such a thing as negative credibility? If this guy told me it was raining I'd reach for sunglasses.

I hope this does not get me suspended again. I'm not just bashing on someone for the sake of bashing on him. There's a bigger point. Too often I see people in the manosphere/red pill community who, having had the wool pulled from their eyes regarding certain mainstream beliefs, erroneously conclude that if a belief is mainstream it must be wrong. The red pill is about seeing with your own eyes, looking out for your own real interests and not the ones society says you should have, relying on evidence and reason, and not limiting your inquiry or conclusions to stay within PC bounds. Puncturing 'pretty lies' and getting to truth.

"If liberals say it, it must be wrong" is just another dogma.

[Note that this is different from my attitude about Cappy, which might be described as "If person X, who has very, very frequently been wrong or said things that are untrue (either from ignorance or on purpose) says it, it is probably wrong (and certainly should be double-checked)." I don't take Dick Cheney's views on Middle East policy as true. I don't trust Lindy West or Jessica Valenti when it comes to rape claims or facts about gender in society. People who have claimed hyperinflation is just around the corner for the last 6 years have lost my trust on economics. Etc. Credibility and track record matter.]

 

[Thabo]

Paul Krugman
Noam Chomsky
Naomi Klein

All left leaning talk boxes who have critical mass for their words but never advise for any real change. These types all are just gate keepers and help keep the intellectual class in the dark by promoting purple pill spin.

This clearly shows that you have never read Chomsky and stating your opinion as if it was fact.

 

[Phoenix]

Whenever I see the vomit of Keynes showing up I just shake my head. It's like a bad smell that just won't wash out of some clothes. Am I really still hearing about "price stickiness" and "stimulating aggregate demand" "pump-priming" bullshit?

I strongly recommend reading, or attempting to read, his book "General Theory". The moment you see is writing style you'll recognize the nature of that man. A stupid windbag, ever so eloquently spouting complete and utter shit for hundreds of pages, who got his high reputation because that shit supported what the political class wanted to do and "claim to be" anyway.

In the ideal world, his nonsense would just be summarily be deleted from academic courses, we'd go back on the gold standard, constitutionally restrict so called "pump-priming", and leave wages during recessions and deflation up to the free market. There are dozens of ways for the private sector to handle labour and wages during deflation.

I suspect much of the support for Keynesianism to stem from the "hazing effect". People support hazing, or the teaching of bullshit, because they themselves had to go through with it, and thus feel the need to justify its worth.