Phoenix seems like it'd be cool too.
Cheapest Bigger U.S. City To Live In?
- Thread starter ash093
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ddjembe mutombo
Woodpecker
Fort Worth, TX, is pretty dope. All of Ohio is pretty cheap. Pittsburgh and Detroit are dirt cheap. I imagine Indianapolis is inexpensive. Upstate, NY, is super cheap and pretty cool in my opinion.
Portland, OR, and Denver, CO, are reasonable but super duper liberal.
Chicago sucks.
Portland, OR, and Denver, CO, are reasonable but super duper liberal.
Chicago sucks.
Surprisingly, Detroit is not as cheap as you would think(within the context of running game and keeping in mind areas that you actually would want to be in). High taxes, very high insurance and rapidly rising rents in the Downtown and Midtown neighborhoods, due to lack of vacancies and rising popularity.
Ash,
If you're going to move to the burbs take a look at Oak Park / Forest Park. Once you get further out and into DuPage county there's a big trade off between cost of living and fun. In DuPage county it's like everyone is older, married or divorced, and - while everything you need is close by - you have to drive everywhere. At least with Oak Park and Forest Park you have some semblance of an urban area.
Chicago's weird because it's cheaper than smaller east coast cities. At the same time, living in the city can be a bit of a shake-down since everything's more expensive within city limits. When you factor in the weather and the traffic (if you have to drive) sometimes you wonder whether it's worth it.
Take it from a person who has some hard-won experience in this area: Unless you're going to move to Oak Park / Forest Park, or a suburb with an urban vibe, you're better off ditching the region entirely.
If you're going to duck out of the region entirely I'd recommend Charlotte, NC. It's decidedly smaller-scale compared to Chicago and but the climate is just right. Of course, Charlotte is in the south so culture's a bit different, but if that doesn't bother you then Charlotte would be dope.
PS You're fucking nuts if you move to Detroit.
If you're going to move to the burbs take a look at Oak Park / Forest Park. Once you get further out and into DuPage county there's a big trade off between cost of living and fun. In DuPage county it's like everyone is older, married or divorced, and - while everything you need is close by - you have to drive everywhere. At least with Oak Park and Forest Park you have some semblance of an urban area.
Chicago's weird because it's cheaper than smaller east coast cities. At the same time, living in the city can be a bit of a shake-down since everything's more expensive within city limits. When you factor in the weather and the traffic (if you have to drive) sometimes you wonder whether it's worth it.
Take it from a person who has some hard-won experience in this area: Unless you're going to move to Oak Park / Forest Park, or a suburb with an urban vibe, you're better off ditching the region entirely.
If you're going to duck out of the region entirely I'd recommend Charlotte, NC. It's decidedly smaller-scale compared to Chicago and but the climate is just right. Of course, Charlotte is in the south so culture's a bit different, but if that doesn't bother you then Charlotte would be dope.
PS You're fucking nuts if you move to Detroit.
Detroit's suburbs are just fine, but the city is a no go zone.
puckerman
Ostrich
speakeasy said:
One of the worst myths ever accepted by people is the myth that pedestrian friendly must be car hostile and vice versa.
I grew up in a small town with grid streets. They are car friendly and pedestrian friendly. Most of these silly suburbian neighborhoods are hostile toward both.
Miami is expensive. Rent in a decent place will run you $1300+ and drinks are pretty pricey. On top of that you pretty much need to have a car, unless you live on the beach. The nice highrises on the beach are even pricier since there aren't that many of them, it's primarily shitty two floor walk-ups.
Going out and drinking is also pretty expensive...unless you want to go to shitty bars and hang out with guys wearing Tap-Out shirts and chubby Guatemalan girls. But that's not why you come to Miami haha
Going out and drinking is also pretty expensive...unless you want to go to shitty bars and hang out with guys wearing Tap-Out shirts and chubby Guatemalan girls. But that's not why you come to Miami haha
metalhaze said:
puckerman
Ostrich
Here is something to add about Austin. When I moved to Austin in August of 2004, I arrived on a Sunday afternoon with no job. I had a place by Tuesday evening.
In April of 2015, my landlord sold the place where I had lived for over ten years. I had a great deal and would have stayed as long as I could have. I then went to look for something similar.
I lived in Studio Six for nine weeks. I finally found a place at the end of June. It was the toughest search I'd ever had. I met with lots of people and had an excellent history as a roommate and a tenant. I ended up taking a place by myself, which is probably too much.
Austin has officially become unlivable.
In April of 2015, my landlord sold the place where I had lived for over ten years. I had a great deal and would have stayed as long as I could have. I then went to look for something similar.
I lived in Studio Six for nine weeks. I finally found a place at the end of June. It was the toughest search I'd ever had. I met with lots of people and had an excellent history as a roommate and a tenant. I ended up taking a place by myself, which is probably too much.
Austin has officially become unlivable.
puckerman said:
Anywhere that becomes a tech-hub becomes unlivable very fast. You get huge numbers of nerdy males under 40 on high wages moving into the city. This leads to rapid increases in rent, beer and restaurant prices, and nightlife/dating ratios getting trashed.
Its the reason the SF bay area is probably the worst major city in the US to live in as a single man.
puckerman
Ostrich
zatara said:
There are no "high wages" here in Austin. I could go to other Texas cities and get a similar job for about the same money. Many people talk of going to other cities and making more money doing the same work.
It is due almost solely to all the "immigrants" from California. This especially includes Los Angeles, which is not a tech hub at all.
And there are very few making "high wages" in tech. Most of us make enough to support ourselves, and that's about it. I still make less than $60,000 per year--so much for the "high wages." Many who work in tech have spouses who also work. The last thing we need is more people promoting the myth that there are lots of "high wages" in tech. The business is already saturated with too many people looking for jobs, and we don't need any more.
puckerman said:
That entire post is statistically...completely wrong. Austin has the 28th highest average salary of all US metro areas, out of 938. It's a well paid city. In regards to there being 'no high wages' in the tech industry; tech industry workers earned an average wage of $100,400 in 2014, 102 percent more than the U.S. average private sector wage. Its a very well paid employment field. Austin also has the 5th highest number of per capita tech workers of any metro area in the United States. Forbes last year named it the "the number one city for tech growth". The number of tech workers there are growing massively on a year-to-year basis.
Just because you yourself aren't on a good wage and are apparently scared of more workers coming to your city it doesn't count for much. Your experience is apparently entirely anecdotal, and the economic statistics disagree with you completely. It's fairly well established both that tech jobs tend to be well remunerated, and that Austin is a regional hub for them experiencing massive growth in the industry.
puckerman
Ostrich
zatara said:
And statistics are often...completely wrong. For all I know, you could have made them up. You provide one source, although you aren't clear about it.
But your post has made it clear that you don't work in the industry. Do you know people who do?
Here is the source, although we have no idea which issue of Forbes it was. Maybe I will look it up sometime.
I don't want more people to move here, for obvious reasons. Since you have never lived here, you probably haven't seen the traffic here.
Have you considered that I talk to other people? Have you considered that I know other people in the industry?
My comments are based on experience. Your comments are based on sitting in front of a computer and looking stuff up.
puckerman said:
I've been to Austin. I work in tech. I didn't bring up my own anecdotal evidence to dispute your points because anecdotes rarely prove anything definitively. Statistics provide empirical proof. You can argue statistics are completely wrong because they disagree with your own beliefs, but thats not exactly an intelligent, or believable, argument.
I didn't bother to list sources because I figured for someone who works in tech it would be quite easy for you to Google them. But here you go:
Austin has the 28th highest average salary of all US metro areas, out of 938. - http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2011/11/01/austin-average-salaries-in-top-30-of.html
Austin has the 5th highest number of per capita tech workers of any metro area in the United States - http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2013/11/20/the-surprising-cities-creating-the-most-tech-jobs/
Tech industry workers earned an average wage of $100,400 in 2014, 102 percent more than the U.S. average private sector wage. - http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...try-employs-65-million-in-2014-300033265.html
Forbes last year named Austin the "the number one city for tech growth". - http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkot...ating-the-most-tech-jobs-2015/2/#6e03739a3a11
Its highly misleading of you to post complete untruths to the forum to try to scare people away from moving to Austin, just because you're scared of professional competition. That's why I'm calling you out with my "completely made up statistics". After the recent Nasa Test Pilot saga its probably important people are fact checked when they post highly questionable things.
puckerman
Ostrich
zatara said:
It's very easy to manipulate numbers to make them mean what you want them to mean.
This is a statement based on all fields and all professions. It doesn't take into account the work people do or how many people are doing it.
I know that Austin has a large number of lawyers. Of course, this will drive up average salaries for all people. But does a lawyer in Austin make the same amount of money as a lawyer in a city like San Antonio? This study doesn't answer that question, but that is really the question that matters.
I never disputed this, although "tech" does mean different things to different people. Are you including chemists, physicists, too? I should say that when I refer to "tech," I refer to any field that involves information technology. I don't include engineers in other fields, chemists, or physicists. I refer mainly to programmers, software developers, and tech support people.
Plus, the people who do non-tech jobs for tech companies do make more. A person who does sales for a techie company will make more money than a person doing sales for a non-techie company.
I won't dispute this number either because there are many upper managers who make a lot more than this. They drive up the averages for all fields. Of course, most people still never see the big bucks. If you have one person making a million dollars and nine making $50,000, that will skew the average.
Working in tech is a lot being an actor. The ones who make the "big bucks" make all the magazines and newspapers, but they are hardly representative of what is really going on. And just like acting, tech has a lot of people who aren't in it for very long. They get into it, find out it's a totally over-hyped career field, and then leave.
Actually I discourage most people from moving here, especially if they are from California. I've been here since 2004. That means I've sat in traffic jams in all hours and had long drives that never should have been as long. I've experienced these traffic jams because I live here, work here, and play here.
Based on in-person conversations with actual human beings who also live here, I know that my sentiments are hardly unique. Anytime I talk to someone who has lived here as long as I have, the person just says something like, "Yes, I get it." Many people have already left. Many people who have been here for 15 or 20 years are thinking about leaving as well. I am able to have these conversations because I do take time to get off the computer and talk to real people who live here.
If I had wanted to live in California, I would have moved there. I naively assumed I was safe because of the distance. I know Austin isn't the only city to be ruined by Californization, and it probably won't be the last either.
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