Christian response and guidance to coronavirus

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
PainPositive said:
I have always wondered if Catholics believe that it's the actual blood and body of Christ why are they eating it? If a piece of Christ's calf meat were on the table and his literal blood was in a cup you'd drink it? I've taken communion and always thought it tasted like wine. Where does this come from?

Jesus' own words in Chapter 6 in The Gospel of John, which scandalized the crowd.

I've been thinking about this recently, wondering why my Sister and I never felt Jesus' presence as a child. We've both said that during those childhood masses there was like there was something missing at the centre of it: a void where God should be.

The church we attended was built in the early 70's, and since it was Post-Vatican II, it's built in the Protestant style. There's a Cross rather than a Crucifix. Everything is round and 'modernistic'. The Masses were very much what Tradcats accuse the Modern Novus Ordo of being: guitar, hippie songs, trying to 'entertain' the Crowd.

I live very close to this Church, but since my Justification, I have never felt any strong urge to attend that Church and drive to the far side of town to go attend Mass. I trust where God leads me.

However, once or twice, due to illness, I've been forced to walk around there and attend Mass - it's still a very strange church - and I've figured out the issue.

I remember the first time I went to the Cathedral here I noticed Prayer Kneelers lined up in front of a grand marble edifice containing a statue of Jesus. Thinking it was the place to pray, I dropped to my knees and started praying.

Very quickly, I looked up. There was a golden door in the middle of this edifice, and I understood: Jesus is here, right in front of me, in that vault.

This is how I discovered what a Tabernacle was. As a woman from my RCIA group said to me, "I didn't understand when I first came into the Cathedral, but I did when I knelt to pray: he's right there."

I can also feel the arrival of his presence at the moment of Consecration - people seem to think it happens during the references to the Last Supper. No, it's "... so that it may become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ" a little before that. Sometimes it's more dramatic, like a breath of wind blowing into your soul. Sometimes you just know the change has happened.

Note that this happens regardless of whether its a Novus Ordo or Latin Mass, or whether I think the Priest lives up to my emotional standards of what I believe Holiness is.

This is why, before our recent miseries, I spent eight hours a week in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament. I'm not big noting myself. I want to be there. I'm not 'worshipping bread'. I'm swimming in the vast ocean of His love and loving him in return. To outward appearances, I'm just sitting there, silently, looking at a piece of bread.

So what was the issue with my childhood church? I've been back, out of curiousity. The place still rubs me the wrong way, and it took me a while to figure it out.

There's no clear tabernacle in the Church.

There is, but you have to really look for it. It's off in a tiny chapel to the back left of where you enter, but that Chapel is generally closed off by a set of yellow-green 70's accordion doors. Even in the Chapel, it's not front and Centre, but sitting immediately to the left of the tiny entrance door.

It breaks my heart over how disrespected He is there. His presence is very, very weak.

On Divine Mercy Sunday, I quietly let a homeless man I've interacted with a few times around town into Church, whom seemed to have been drawn there. I held the door open, he came in and then stood, quietly-fixated on the tabernacle, for about ten-to-fifteen minutes or so. Then he left without a word.

Now, with regards to the Real Presence, miracles happen all the time around the Eucharist, often then exposed to scientifically-scrutiny. Why don't you hear about this? Because the Media and Academia are completely-controlled by a Religion that rejects and despises Christ. Here's some recent ones, you can usually find scientific videos on Youtube:

https://dowym.com/voices/5-incredible-eucharistic-miracles-from-the-last-25-years/

Note how it's specifically flesh of the heart, and the Blood Type remains consistent.

A much longer list:

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

So, understand us Catholics know we're currently being denied the Real Presence of Christ. And that's OK, because our Faith strengthens us for moments like this, because we continue to walk in Trust and Love.

"Everything is a grace, everything is the direct effect of our Father's love - difficulties, contradictions, humiliations, all the soul's miseries, her burdens, her needs - everything, because through them, she learns humility, realizes her weakness. Everything is a grace because everything is God's gift. Whatever be the character of life or its unexpected events - to the heart that loves, all is well." ~ St Therese of Lisieux
 

Aboulia

Robin
The Guest said:
Personally, I think we need as many Christians to survive this as possible and deal with what will come after.

Wholeheartedly disagree, precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints , Psalm 115 (116 Masoretic text)


Roosh said:
It seems like a lot of churches are following the secular world and closing everything down. Catholic Churches have closed and even my church (Armenian) is doing liturgy behind closed doors without parishioners. As a young Christian, I thought that Christ defeated death for us.

You're absolutely right. He did. He exposed death for what it was, so that others could overcome fear of it, that is why many went to their deaths rather than deny Christ. There are far worse things than death. Life without meaning, pointless suffering, living with your conscience torturing you come to mind (Which is why Judas hung himself) Fear of the inevitable is irrational. You may as well fear the sun rising. Fearing death will not spare you. Look at what happened in Nova Scotia. A man dressed as a cop, using a car he fitted to look like a cop car, pulled people over and murdered them. (and I do believe that social isolation played a part in pushing him over the edge) No matter what precaution you may take, every day you have chance of dying/being killed. You can choose to live in a sterile bubble, having zero contact with the outside world or you can take death, incorporate it into you and become stronger. Another form of death is pain. All emotional pain is caused by having a distorted perception of the world. And all of you know all know that growth comes from pain. You've had to put your ego to death to face rejection.

I'm not saying Christians don't get scared, sure they do. Nobody wants to die. Overcoming fear, and being fearless in the face of death is a Christian trait, which has converted countless people by [bold] example [/bold]. If you are Catholic or Orthodox, and you struggle with death, you need to read the lives of the Saints, and asceticise. That's the whole purpose of asceticism (fasting,vigils, etc) . To destroy the ego, and become one with God.

Protestants, read Luke 10:25-37 (Parable of the Good Samaritan) and really dwell on it. To update it to this situation, imagine that

The priest who saw the man and since he didn't know him decided it wasn't his problem
The Levite who thought of helping him, but decided not to practice social distancing instead
The Samaritan who paid no attention , and decided it was better to part with some of his limited time on earth, and his finite resources to help a man in need, regardless of the danger he may have put himself in.

Here's an icon that I love, illustrating the parable


Don't let fear and fearmongering dominate you, on the same token, don't be reckless, and tempt God.

Rigsby said:
.... Charity is where it's at. It's for the strong to dole out to the weak. Without any kind of usury involved. ...

@Rigsby, thanks for sharing your heartwarming story. You're probably stronger than you realize. Humbling experiences is how God shows love for us. He kicks out our supports and destroys our illusions in his love. Well read men come to realize that they know nothing. Wise men come to realize that they aren't that way of their own merits. Isaiah 64:6 comes to mind "We have all become like the unclean; all our righteous deeds are like a menstrual rag. All of us wither like a leaf; our sins, like the wind, carry us away.

In other words, all goodness within us comes from following established patterns. We are to take no credit for the character traits we're dealt, so we're to show gratitude by thankfulness to God, and charity towards others. We inherit the consequences of the fall of Man from Eden, so all are broken in some regard, and the only way to heal the evil in this world is to take it on our own shoulders to the degree that we are capable.
 
E. Michael Jones was interviewed today on the redpill tech channel Computing Forever. The thing that stuck out at me the most was Jones frames the coronavirus lockdown as people trusting the "experts" instead of the Church as their moral guide.

I have difficulty agreeing with that, given that anyone who trusts the Church - whether Jones' Roman Church or my own Orthodox Church - is patiently waiting at home for all this to end.

It seems to me that the problem is much deeper than what Jones claims. The Church is complying with the "experts", choosing to excommunicate the overwhelming majority of the faithful rather than face legal penalties at the hands of the godless authorities.

The Russian Orthodox Church has canonized more than a thousand martyrs from the Soviet persecution, and that's just a small sampling of the Christians who died practicing their faith in defiance of the communists. But when confronted by false friends rather than real enemies, we've simply rolled over and acquiesced to their demands.

I will be daily praying Psalm 67 "Let God arise, and let his enemies be scattered" and looking forward to the day when the faithful may commune once again.

 

Rush87

Ostrich
If this had of been a world ending virus, there should still be no fear. Fear of death defeats the very principles we practice as Christians. Catastrophe, or potential catastrophe is a time to show strength. Not cowardice.
 

Aboulia

Robin
Hypno said:
Doesn’t Romans say that the government is Christ’s order on earth and should be obeyed?

Yes, but it doesn't mean you should obey just anyone who happens to seize power.

Christ said it better than Paul in that regard.

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

If what a governing body asks is in concordance with God's law, then do what's asked, if they oppose, follow the law and order of God instead, disregarding the requests of the governing authorities, like many of the Christian martyrs.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
When I spoke to my SSPX Catholic priest about how ridiculous and political the shutdowns and quarantines are, he sympathized with me but also made a comment like "Sometimes parents have to make decisions to protect their children, even if the children don't understand why or don't agree" (comparing the government to parents and the citizens to children).

I pressed him a little on the issue and got him to admit that if the government went full persecution and outlawed Mass for a long time, he would support some kind of resistance. But it was still a bit disappointing that he wasn't more skeptical of the government's motivations.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
A friend elsewhere was voicing some discouragement, and I vaguely-remembered something I watched over 18 months ago. Having a listen now, with greater Experiential Knowledge of God, it was quite an eye opener, because theology and spiritual reading has more than supported what is being said here.

This is Episode 6 of a series, but it would be enough watched in isolation.

What I also found interesting, was that the Church was under heavy persecution by France in Ven. Bruno Lanteri's time, so there's parallels for what is happening now, particularly if you're cut off from the mass, the eucharist and confession, so need to rely on the Act of Perfect Contrition. Be confident in God's Merciful Heart!


Beginners: pay close attention to when they discuss making a daily spiritual plan. Doing this regularly is how you'll come to experience God in a more concrete way.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
People in Small town Canada got served tickets for having a drive in Church service.

On Sunday, some 70 cars were seen arriving to the church’s parking lot. The local pastor, Henry Hildebrandt, spoke from a raised platform as those who gathered to hear his words remained in their vehicles. His celebration went out over a radio signal; the congregants tuned into it from their cars.

“Today our officers were on scene monitoring the events, and watching what was taken place. Just because the public didn’t see us handing out a ticket like a speeding stop, people will be held accountable for what happened today.
“It’s no secret the officers were videotaping the event and we’ll review all that video and we’ll put a package together to present to the local county prosecutor to see what route we need to follow.”

National Post - Drive in Church Shut down
 
For all their faults, Baptists and other protestants have been good at pushing back on religious freedom issues in America. This is a spiritual test that can be aced (confront, resist and deny), but is being failed by most. What some governors and mayors are doing is flatly unconstitutional. Either make a stand now or embrace defeat later (i.e. church attendance collapsing along with tithes). The corruption of the church leadership is not just the liberalism, but the cowardice as well. Church leaders live a very soft life in America & sudden hard times has taken many by surprise.
 

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
I think one can be understanding of this in a way (and I am firmly in the camp that this is the most drastic overreaction I've ever seen for a virus that does not put 99% of people at any real risk), but in no uncertain terms will I be understanding should another episode occur in the future. I am already very disappointed with the general handling of the matter by most orthodox bishops. As a result, I'm inclined to agree with Magnus in his above post. There is a place for dealing with authorities if you live in a known, explicit Soviet type state but rolling over when the claim or presumption is that you are an American with constitutional rights and this strong legacy is unacceptable.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
This is an ouch:
A month ago, when I realised what had happened, I wrote: "As a small but significant instance; keep a particular eye on what happens to government regulation of Christian church 'gatherings'..." In the UK churches are shut, and all their significant activities have ceased.

Meanwhile, essential institutions - such as supermarkets and hardware shops - remain open.

Ergo: Churches have been officially classified as inessential: declared so by the government; and their inessential nature is fully-agreed (without any peep of official resistance, or even reluctance, or demand for time-limit) by the church leadership.

So it is not me who is asserting that Christian churches are inessential: it is the churches themselves.

It turns-out that (according to the churches) Man can live by bread (and plant pots) alone, after all!

Or, at any rate, our essential spiritual sustenance officially does Not require a church.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Catholic Arch Bishop Vigano & Bishop Schneider are coming out warning against the NWO and throws some shade on Gates.

Those who fail to distinguish between the suitability and danger of globalization deny reality. Pope Francis has spoken out against states and international bodies imposing abortion in poor countries as a form of neo-colonialism and denying them aid if they refuse to implement this. When Alberto Fujimori was the president of Peru, I spoke to many women and men who had been sterilized unknowingly and who had been tricked with large sums of money and promises about healthcare and a better life. Is this some sort of conspiracy theory? The same must be said about accusations of conspiracy theories concerning discussions of vaccinating seven billion people, even though the vaccine has not been properly tested yet and basic rights may be denied to any who refuse the vaccine. Nobody can be forced to believe that a couple of billionaire benefactors have the best plans for improving things around the world simply because they have been able to accumulate such huge sums of money.


Vigano Article - Life Stite News
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Wow ! We might not have many Bishops in the Catholic Church who understand what is happening, or who are weak to the evils of the day. BUT I can say this guy gets it. Myself or I would guess anyone on this forum couldn't have said it letter summarizing the situation through a Christian lens.

Arch Bishop Vigano is fully seeing the political divide (globalists, deeps state, etc) and how this relates to Christian good vs. evil, something the Bishops at large seem to have missed in my opinion.

In society, Mr. President, these two opposing realities co-exist as eternal enemies, just as God and Satan are eternal enemies. And it appears that the children of darkness – whom we may easily identify with the deep state which you wisely oppose and which is fiercely waging war against you in these days – have decided to show their cards, so to speak, by now revealing their plans. They seem to be so certain of already having everything under control that they have laid aside that circumspection that until now had at least partially concealed their true intentions. The investigations already under way will reveal the true responsibility of those who managed the Covid emergency not only in the area of health care but also in politics, the economy, and the media. We will probably find that in this colossal operation of social engineering there are people who have decided the fate of humanity, arrogating to themselves the right to act against the will of citizens and their representatives in the governments of nations.


It will not be surprising if, in a few months, we learn once again that hidden behind these acts of vandalism and violence there are those who hope to profit from the dissolution of the social order so as to build a world without freedom: Solve et Coagula, as the Masonic adage teaches.
("Solve et coagula" — Separate and Join Together (or "dissolve and coagulate" in Latin) is a medieval alchemy quote, which is to say that nothing new can be built if not before we make space, breaking the old. ... Solve et Coagula is the essential alchemical process.)


And it is disconcerting that there are Bishops – such as those whom I recently denounced – who, by their words, prove that they are aligned on the opposing side. They are subservient to the deep state, to globalism, to aligned thought, to the New World Order which they invoke ever more frequently in the name of a universal brotherhood which has nothing Christian about it, but which evokes the Masonic ideals of those want to dominate the world by driving God out of the courts, out of schools, out of families, and perhaps even out of churches.

Archbishop Viganos letter to Trump
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I recently came across this article by Fr. Saša Petrović .

I have put a few of the points that hit home for me, but really I could have just posted the entire article. I am not Russian Orthodox but I am sure many of us have felt this across denominations , why are our Shepherds so afraid of this Coronavirus?

My hope is that they simply do not understand my first highlighted quote, which this Priest sees as "obvious".

Masks Forbidden in Church! - Orthodox Priest Explains Why

It is obvious that there are many powerful people in the world who are exploiting this crisis in order establish absolute and complete global control of human population by destroying the world economy, erasing history, and resetting all aspects of human life to a “new normal”, which, of course will not be to the benefit of humanity, but only to their personal gain.

However, as an Orthodox Priest, a Spiritual Father of my flock, and lastly, as a freedom loving and law abiding citizen, it is my duty to provide you with guidance on this issue from an Orthodox Christian perspective.

When Prophet Isaiah exhorts Israel for its wickedness he says, "Your iniquities have separated between you and God, and your sins have hid His face from you" (Isaiah 59:2).

The emphasis on a face in the Scripture is always an emphasis on a personhood. Our face is the most important feature of our person – of who we are. We are recognized by our face before God and before people. We are created in the image of God, and that image must stay unaltered for us to be who we are. When we cover our face, we are just one of the crowd (from the submissive heard) and we lose our personhood, which is in direct contradiction to God’s image in which we were created.

2300 years ago, long before Islam, Arabs discovered that forcing people to cover their noses and mouths, broke their wills and individuality, and depersonalized them. It made them submissive. That’s why they imposed on every woman the mandatory use of a fabric over her face. Then Islam turned it into the woman’s symbol of submission to Allah, the man owner of the Harem, and the King. Modern psychology explains it: without a face we don’t exist as independent beings. The child looks in the mirror between the ages of two and three and is discovered as an independent being. The mask is the beginning of deleting individuality. He who does not know his history is condemned to repeat it.”

When we reject the uncreated Divine energies through our actions of doubt (wearing a mask in church) then we deny God and we create another – a false god. The same applies to the temple of God (the church). If we doubt there is Divine grace in church, then we downgrade it to a mere auditorium or community center.

All this brings us to an ultimate question – Do we believe in God? If we do, what kind of God is He? Is He a God created by our mind to whom we recognize as much power as our mind determines? We probably do not even realize that by not understanding this problem (unwillingly) we blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. We are infected by heretical thought, while we formally confess our Orthodoxy. We blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, and I am afraid that if we persist in this, it will not be forgiven to us according to the words of Christ: ”But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation” (Mark 3:29).

In my opinion, by faithfully attending church and not submitting to masks and other COVID-19 directed health measures, we are confessing Christ, but in staying away from church without good reason or wearing masks in church we are denying the sovereignty of God.

Saint Paul warns that in the latter days there will be those who “hold the form of religion but deny the power of it” (2 Tim. 3:5), and place above Christ “science so called” (1 Tim. 6:20). While Christ cautioned we should not take unnecessary risks by needlessly tempting God (Matt. 4:7), faithfully attending church without masks is not tempting God (like drag racing your car on a busy public street). Rather, it is witnessing to the Providence of God by following His Commandments and leaving our individual fates in His loving hands. Then we will confidentially look forward to our Lord one day saying to us, “well done, good and faithful servant.” Matt. 25:23.
 
Grace Community Church is open in California because pastor MacAruthur is going to obey Christ and leave it in His hands. Don't think anyone in a month has gotten sick and died in that so called mega church. He considers church essential and the government having no right to forbid their assembly.
 

Jessie

Newbie
It’s been two months since they reopened. No outbreaks. I was upset that they shut down in the first place, but I’m happy Pastor M course corrected. He’s also provided some good leadership for the smaller churches in the region. Many of them have reopened, making only a pretense of following Covid. They post signs, but no one follows them.
 
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