Clip of Damascus College Students before the Syrian Civil War

[Anabasis to Desta]

^^ I somewhat agree with both Xplat & Djemba but don't think the rural/urban dichotomy is the main cause of this whole mess in the Middle East.

Some have pointed out the reason behind the current turmoil in the region is US foreign policy. But US foreign policy has been nothing but reactionary in the region since the 60's.

The root cause of this whole clusterfuck is Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the Cancer, AIDS and Malaria of this planet!

Up until the very recently there was a very strong Arab Nationalism and Arab identity throughout the Middle East and North Africa.Pretty much what we call Baath-ism.

Baath-ism despite all it faults (Arab-Socialism) was secular, non-Islamic,in support of social progress, pro-Science and Research & pan-Arab in nature. The urban elite and middle class drove the cultural and political context of their countries. Think of Egypt during Gamal Abdel Nasser, Syria during Hafez Al-Assad and Lebanon before the civil war. The region had it's problems but Arabs were modernizing fast.

This was until the Saudis started exporting their cancerous Wahhabi version of Islam. They opened and funded Madrasas in Pakistan, sent their scholars to Indonesia, Malaysia, Iraq, the Levant, North Africa, Nigeria and Somalia.

You know how many millions of people 1000 fucked up Imam's can brainwash?

Islam has never been a problem in my home country of Ethiopia for example. They existed as a peaceful minority. As friends and neighbors until the Saudis started "funding" Mosques in the early 90's.

Ethiopian Muslims never wore Niqabs and used to be very secular. Now you see Niqabs everywhere in Muslim neighborhoods. In Muslim majority parts of the country you get Saudi trained dogs protesting the construction of Orthodox Churches.

Shia Islam, Sufi Islam and the West African (think Ivory Coast,Mali,Gambian & Senegalese) versions of Islam have never been violent until they got infected by the Wahhabi poison from Saudi Arabia. Same rule applies to North African,Malaysian & Indonesian Muslims. I'm not sure about Pakistan.

Djemba ... are you Cameroonian?

 

[el mechanico]

No matter how much I try to read I don't understand Muslims or Islam.

Is the Hassad guy good? His family looks like a normal kinda American one why would he implode his country?

 

[Anabasis to Desta]

No matter how much I try to read I don't understand Muslims or Islam.

Is the Hassad guy good? His family looks like a normal kinda American one why would he implode his country?

Assad is hated by ISIS, Israel, Al-Qaeda, Islamist rebels who want to take Syria back to the 7th century, NATO, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuweit.

He is supported by the majority of his own people, Russia, Iran and Hezbollah.

He's also a British educated Eye Doctor.

He's fighting against NATO sponsored moderate democratic activists pictured below.

And no those guys are not ISIS. That group is called Jaish Al-Fateh which has received TOW missiles and other advanced weaponry from the US.The same guys who John McCuckain has been vouching for.

You decide who's good!

 

[xpatplayer]

Forgot to add another detail - the Arabs, Persians, Pakistanis, and Afghans I hang out with have deep pride in their nation-states, not in their ethnicities. They have pride in the Islamic Golden Age, but not in Islam itself (even if they are devout, 5 prayers a day Muslims). Syrians, Saudis, and Iranians bitch about Saddam, Iraqis and Lebanese bitch about Assad. But its for politics, not for religion. They all hate Hezbollah and the Ayatollahs, the al-Saud family (especially the Saudis), and the infinite Sunni militias out there.

Another somewhat unrelated fact - they hate Israel for 1967, not for Judaism. In fact, they get along pretty well with Israelis (until politics comes up). I have a theory that Israeli Jews essentially became liberal Arabs once they made Aaliyah. Hard to understand until you remember that Zionism was a moderate-leftist cause in the West until Likud came into power.

I like liberal Middle-Easterners, regardless of nationality or religion, because they are very cultured in every sense of the word. Middle Eastern culture is honor-based, hospitable, and not as traditional as the media portrays it. Most of the post-2011 American debacles in the Middle East (or post-2003 for that matter) could have been avoided if the American leadership only understood that it is the urban Arabs who are easy to negotiate with and share Western ideals, not the rural folks who have lived the same way since Neolithic times, only with a different religion.

Anabasis - what you need to understand is that the Al-Saud family doesn't practice what they preach. They implement Wahhabi Islam strictly only because that is their only claim to legitimacy. They are Najd Arabs, Bedouins with very little historical connection to historically liberal Hejazi Arabs. The Princes and Kings have only implemented Wahhabism because they would be overthrown by a democratic movement if it wasn't for their brand of Islam. As a Hejazi friend told me 'The assholes treat the country like their personal brothel, but tell us to be pious.' Once a liberal prince comes into power (a Saudi Gorbachev), the radical Sunni movements everywhere else will collapse overnight.

Most regions within Lebanon, Coastal Syria, Israel, Turkey, Tunisia, Morocco, and enclaves in urban Egypt, Iran, the Gulf Kingdoms, Iraqi Kurdistan, and Pakistan are relatively liberal. Libya and the rest of Syria were also relatively liberal before the Arab Spring. Baghdad was renowned as a liberal city before the 2003 invasion. Kabul was much more beautiful 40 years ago than it is today.

All of these regions have one thing in common - they are not controlled by Islamists. They are controlled by people who want to live good lives in their homeland, regardless of what some religious preacher says is right or wrong.

The Middle East's main problem is rapid cultural change. While the cities are liberal and international, the villages are stuck in the 19th Century. Villagers see people in the cities enjoying life instead of toiling in the sun and impregnating Fatima back home with her 8th child. This pisses them off because having fun is 'wrong'. They come up with some religious justification that their local Mullah supports. Kind of like how omegas in the West decide to go MGTOW because 'women are all evil'.

This is why democracy can't succeed in the Middle East. The people voting are rural hicks who hate their urban counterparts. Look at what these illiterates have done to Libya, Afghanistan, and Eastern Syria.

This is an incisive post. It's interesting that the dichotomy between urban and rural ideologies span over multiple societies.

The people that gave us whore houses (harems) and belly dancing while European women were covered down to the toes have regressed to a strange moral antiquity.

Essentially with the help of the USA and its anti communist paranoia, the most hardcore reactionary Islamist elements of these societies hijacked political life. And now we have this ridiculous situation.

 

[xpatplayer]

No matter how much I try to read I don't understand Muslims or Islam.

Is the Hassad guy good? His family looks like a normal kinda American one why would he implode his country?

Its all about politics and power. Too complex to explain in a post (you need to understand the last 100 years of the region's history), but the gist is that al-Assad is a liberal Arab (his wife grew up as a white girl in London).

He didn't care much about religion, until the crazies started killing his soldiers. He's an eye-doctor, not a politician so he just bombed them hoping they'd go away. But he killed civilians so more people joined the crazies. Now you have a full-blown civil-war.

The guy isn't too politically savvy, but he's powerful, because his father stated that he was to be President after he died. The guy is a typical beta doctor. He's not a negotiator or politician, which is why he hasn't made significant compromises.

He wants a Syria where he's in power, but doesn't know how to create power other than by force. Most Syrians from the city support him because they are culturally more Western than old-school Muslim.

 

[Anabasis to Desta]

No matter how much I try to read I don't understand Muslims or Islam.

Is the Hassad guy good? His family looks like a normal kinda American one why would he implode his country?

Its all about politics and power. Too complex to explain in a post (you need to understand the last 100 years of the region's history), but the gist is that al-Assad is a liberal Arab (his wife grew up as a white girl in London).

He didn't care much about religion, until the crazies started killing his soldiers. He's an eye-doctor, not a politician so he just bombed them hoping they'd go away. But he killed civilians so more people joined the crazies. Now you have a full-blown civil-war.

The guy isn't too politically savvy, but he's powerful, because his father stated that he was to be President after he died. The guy is a typical beta doctor. He's not a negotiator or politician, which is why he hasn't made significant compromises.

He wants a Syria where he's in power, but doesn't know how to create power other than by force. Most Syrians from the city support him because they are culturally more Western than old-school Muslim.

Yes he's a beta doctor. But the paramount mistake on his part was not crushing the rebellion as soon as it started. Unlike what the Western Media outlets reported, Assad was actually open for negotiation and discourse.

Shit hit the fan when protesters started bombing police stations and assassinating local government officials. Assad was stuck. His brother Maher Al-Assad who is more Alpha decided to send in the army to crush the minor rebellion. (Which any country would have done. Can you imagine how the US would react if were governors being killed and cops beheaded?)

At this point, the US Administration( McCain and Hitlery) decide to push the narrative that Assad is massacring his own people. Fair enough!

The real problem starts when Saudi Arabian, Qatari and Kuwaiti media outlets start reporting that Assad( who is an Alawite Shia Muslim) is massacring Sunnis.

This is when 40,000 radical sunni foreign fighters start flooding into Syria mainly from Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Dagestan ,Chechnya, Morocco and Libya. So the so called "Syrian rebels" believe it or not are around 50% foreigners.

As for Assad having support only in big cities is wrong. Assad's support is the following.

1) The Coastal Areas of Syria especially the governorates of Latakkia and Tartous. These two provinces are Assad's heartland since his Alawite Shia co-religionists live here. There is almost a cult-like following of Assad in there regions. They represent 15% of Syria's population.

2) Like you mentioned all the big urban centers of Damascus, Aleppo, Homs, Hama.

3) 10 % of Syrias population is Christian. He's got their unanimous support.

4) The southern provinces of As-Suwayda, Daraa and Quneitra who are inhabited by Druze. They were pro-rebel in the beginning until the rebellion got hijacked by Islamists.

5) Although they are currently under the control of ISIS, people in the Eastern Province of Deir Ez-Zor are very pro-Assad. This is because the province is mostly desert inhabited by Bedouin Arabs who are more Mesopotamian(Iraqi) than Levantine. They used to be marginalized by the elites in Aleppo and Damascus until the Assads came to power and offered Baath-ism as an equalizer ideology.

 

[xpatplayer]

^ Like I mentioned, it was simplified. Yes, he reacted to terrorism. But there is no denying that he was brutal initially. Not as brutal as McCain claimed, but brutal nonetheless.

Great analysis otherwise. +1 from me. Also check your PM inbox.

 

[Vice]

The guy is a typical beta doctor.

Damn, even Assad is a beta now... :-/

 

[el mechanico]

The guy is a typical beta doctor.

Damn, even Assad is a beta now... :-/

Got AMOGd by McCain. It's as bad as it gets.

 

[xpatplayer]

The guy is a typical beta doctor.

Damn, even Assad is a beta now... :-/

I don't like getting into the whole alpha-beta argument, but you can see that he's a nebbish middle-aged dad. He was supposed to be a doctor, but his older brother Bassel, the heir-apparent to the Presidency, died in a car crash in 1994.

But there's nothing particularly wrong in being 'beta' if your authority is accepted by most of your population. Most heads of state today are beta, with one the notable exceptions being Putin.

But what matters in a civil war is how you deal with violent opposition. Whether you're Alpha or Beta has some influence on that, but its not everything.

 

[YossariansRight]

I don't know how many of you watch the FX show "Tyrant", but it's largely based on Syria. It's good.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant_(TV_series)

And the chicks on it are hot, especially Moran Atias.

 

[HankMoody]

Wow.

Very powerful post.

 

[Sonsowey]

Every country we invade to "liberate" or "democratize" ends up a hell-hole.

Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Ukraine...

All of them are worse off for our "help".

 

[Sourcecode]

What about Germany, Japan, Korea, Italy?
Of course there are others..But I list those four because the united states has active military bases there.

 

[RIslander]

OP, thanks for the video. This is one of the most interesting threads going on the forum.

The dudes are the type of guys I would hang out with. The girls are all quite cute. I could listen to their accents all day. They exude feminity, class and optimism. I hope they're all safe.

 

[YossariansRight]

OP, thanks for the video. This is one of the most interesting threads going on the forum.

The dudes are the type of guys I would hang out with. The girls are all quite cute. I could listen to their accents all day. They exude feminity, class and optimism. I hope they're all safe.

Basically, the exact opposite of Westernized twats.

Sweet, friendly and goofy in a charming way. Yep...

 

[el mechanico]

The video was made on engineering degree day which falls on every Tuesday when they hand one out to all the students. That's why they are happy.

 

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

What about Germany, Japan, Korea, Italy?
Of course there are others..But I list those four because the united states has active military bases there.

That was 50 years ago, when wars were being fought for at least somewhat sensible reasons and the postwar reconstruction plans and their enforcement made sense as well. That hasn't been the case for decades now.

For some reason, I don't think that Konrad Adenauer pocketed billions like Karzai.

 

[DjembaDjemba]

In the past when western forces occupied a country they were more hands on with their reconstruction. Now they toss billions of dollars to corrupt local politicians who promptly reinvest those funds in Switzerland.

 

[Saga]

In the past when western forces occupied a country they were more hands on with their reconstruction. Now they toss billions of dollars to corrupt local politicians who promptly reinvest those funds in Switzerland.

They also used to listen to experts, men who closely studied the religious, ethnic, linguistic, political and economic realities of those regions, men who knew what it took to build a functioning society. Today, western governments (especially the US) exhibit a staggering lack of understanding of the countries in which they "intervene" and seem to possess zero conception of what distinguishes successful governments from failed ones. Specialized experts, so often politically inconvenient for those in office, are conspicuous by their absence. This is what happens when democracy's finest professional politicians, good at striking poses and winning elections and nothing else, run the state instead of men of quality and substance.