Cohabitation before marriage / or not - Pros & cons

Is cohabiting a good idea?


  • Total voters
    87

quaker13

Kingfisher
No matter how sweet and cheerful your s/o is the initial honeymoon period of cohabitation will be murderer by her trying to control you under the guise of safety.
You will here things like

Why are you going back out the house this time of night

Why does going to the gym take 3 hours

Didn't you just go out with your frat bros last weeken

You shouldn't eat so late...etc

All of this on top of the fact you can't bring strange back to your crib anymore

There is literally nothing that living with her will give you that you couldn't have discovered on your own through observation in a 2-3 year long relationship

TAKEN FROM ANOTHER BOARD
I've been living with GF for one year now in an alcove studio in MFH. I did not anticipate what *zero* alone time would do to my mental health. The only moments I get to myself are the 20 minutes in a black car from the office to the apt. It has sucked a lot of the romance, love illusion out of the relationship, and I think it's important to keep that illusion alive if you're not yet married so that your wedding day can actually be (or seem like) something special.
 

Beyond Borders

Peacock
Gold Member
^ Of course having a live-in and settling down comes with sacrifices, but maybe that guy should take his nuts back.

If I want time alone, I close my office door. Or go chill out on the front balcony with a book and a cigar and tell her to give me some space if she doesn't get the point. Go visit friends or go for a long morning or evening walk. Or I jump on my motorbike and take off for the day if I really need some room to breathe.

Men without nuts in their relationships is an epidemic, for many reasons that have been discussed to death; that doesn't mean relationships should be avoided at all costs.

Again, obviously living with a woman will not be the same as living on your own. But I have a hard time understanding or respecting a guy who lets his woman nag him all the time, regulates his hours with buddies, and determines when he can eat. Does she pick his hobbies for him too?

This is a problem having to do with the nature of modern men as much as women.

Doesn't sound like he has a balcony or office. Living in a studio with a woman is not easy - I've been there plenty of times. But it sounds like that guy is too afraid to take a little elbow room in his relationship and has zero power over his chick.

Guys with more sack manage their girls a lot better than that, no matter how big their place is and whether they're married or not. So while I agree marriage is probably a smarter long-term life plan than cohabitation, that illustration is a bit sad.
 
I hate the idea of turning in any direction and seeing the same face, day after day. And sharing a bed, night after night, not being able to turn without someone there being disturbed, or them disturbing me with their presence. Not being able to come and go as I please without the other person saying where are you going, where were you, why did you take so long, blah blah blah, having to explain myself all the time. Not being able to pace up and down and talk to myself, sorting out my thoughts.

I need my own space. I don't mind sharing a space, in fact I quite like it but only if I have one foot out the door. I like having someone else around but not if I'm trapped with them.

So the best way, if possible, is to live with a girl in a rented property, with her name only on the tenancy agreement, and my own bedroom, and for me to have my own place, rented, about 10 minutes away.

That way, if it ends, I won't own any property for anyone to take (at least in that country), and moving out will be almost effortless.
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
mr_ks said:
The problem with these Men's views is that they are still blue-pilled in terms of relationships. Men should really only be having relationships with women where it involves children or will do in the near future. When you marry a woman it is to make children, get married, have kids, treat them well. Girlfriends, or Cohabitation is not really worth it for the 'pointless' sex you are having. Might seem like a good idea to younger men who feel they have something to prove. Still, I think men need to wake up and realize the whole image of a Girlfriend-Boyfriend relationship without kids is just a modern invention to cuck men.

This whole situation above is the creation of liberalism and contraception, where a man is tricked into becoming a man-servant to a woman for a bit of impotent sex. This has given women too much power over men and we need to wake up to the scam being perpetrated here.

I'm not saying men should not want casual relationships at all, but dont take it seriously of it does not involve children in some way, because it isnt.

Hold out for the real thing men, fatherhood, boyfriends are for gays.

Well said. The point of marriage is to have children, it doesn't make a woman any more faithful and doesn't create any legal protections besides immunity from testimony.

You get God's witness to your plan with your wife to build some children. If if they dont' start popping out right away, you at least have a plan to work towards with your wife.

Marriage without children is just a backstop for a woman to behave badly, ie. well now we are married I can stop trying because he can't leave me.

If you don't want kids, or aren't ready for kids, don't commit.
 

MichaelWitcoff

Hummingbird
Orthodox
Captainstabbin said:
SilentOne said:
Don't shift the power to her and the state. Once you do, she can act out and there's nothing you can do about it. Nothing.

I wonder if the answer is an ecclesiastical marriage without any legal documents. It seems like the state and the Church have very different definitions and goals for marriage. I don't see the point in risking everything for a woman who may be dishonest in her reasons for getting married and her obligations within a marriage. One marriage can be dissolved with few complications (even Catholic tribunals rarely refuse an annulment), the other results in a financial disaster.

Of course the state will catch up eventually and beef up laws to declare it a common law marriage but that risk exists for cohabitation too. With any luck, your wife has proven herself proper by the time that happens anyway.

Generally, at least in the ancient Orthodox world, a couple would get a civil marriage and then simply have it blessed by the bishop in order to become a "Christian marriage." The idea of a Christian wedding ceremony, separately from a civil wedding ceremony, was the last sacrament added to Church tradition. Even though we have our own wedding sacrament, I think people are generally married according to civil law first.
 

Jeans

Sparrow
RIslander said:
This is probably some of the best pre-marriage relationship advice I've ever heard from good 'ol Bill Murray.


This is awful advice. What chick wouldn't be jazzed about a paid world vacation? Of course they're going to be to good to you as long as that gravy train is still chugging. How a girl behaves in the prolonged absence of outside excitement or stimulation is the much realer test.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I think the travel advice is pretty good. A woman will not be able to control her emotions when things go bad (they always do). Missed flight? Delay? Hotel lost your reservation? Food poisoning? All these things happen. How she deals with them is what you are paying for.

The stats back up that its better to get married and move in. Most don't. I don't know many who followed this path, so time will tell if it works out for them or not.

In my own life I only ever lived with my fiance for a year before marriage. At one point she was between places and had to spend a month in a girls shared home. I was close to breaking down and letting her move in with me, but at that point I was still seeing other women and I did not want her moving in with me to be the deciding factor on which direction I went.

In hindsight, we should have waited to move in together, even though marriage was already on the table. But even in a little over a year, we still became used to fucking strictly for pleasure. I still feel that if we had moved in after marriage, our first place together would have been a den of sex and we would have had kids earlier - which has been one of my life's great regrets.

This is useless info, but I feel that knowing what I do now, I could propose marriage within 6 months of dating a woman and have just as high a chance of success as dating for two years and living together for two more.
 
Laner said:
A woman will not be able to control her emotions when things go bad (they always do). Missed flight? Delay? Hotel lost your reservation? Food poisoning? All these things happen. How she deals with them is what you are paying for.

This.

And make her pay for her own travel costs (flight, train, whatever). You pay for the accommodations and food.

If she nags you once on the trip, multiply by 100 and that is what every week living with her will be like.
 
Fuck that, you wanna come with me, we go Dutch, straight down the fucking middle. When I travel, I'm totally okay with sleeping in hostels I choose on price first and likelihood of getting bedbugs second. I'm alright with street food or eating a block of Tesco cheese in rain on the way back to the hostel. I don't drink or eat out much in my home life, so I kinda tend to follow that when I'm away too, unfortunately.

Just because we're together, that doesn't mean I'm gonna be paying for nice hotels and Michelin star every night. Half the lodging, and whatever you want to eat is on you honey.

I'm in Europe right now. I see all these dudes with these hot Euro girlfriends doing cute couple shit, and am I jealous? You damn right. All I got to look forward to is going home, and getting on tinder in a country full of fat bitches and maybe hope I get fraternize with one that's less of a pig. On the other hand, I've traveled with girls before and that'll wear you out too. They're always hungry and they're always tired. They wake up, they gotta get breakfast, then they gotta get ready. By the time they're ready, they're hungry again so it's lunch and by the time you can actually hit the street, it's like 3pm and what are you gonna do then? Meanwhile, I can get up, put on the same clothes I've worn three days, not shower, and not eating until I find a Lidl at noon or later doesn't bother me all that much. There's grass on both sides, but neither is greener, I guess I'm trying to say.
 

Aizen

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Eazy_E said:
Fuck that, you wanna come with me, we go Dutch, straight down the fucking middle. When I travel, I'm totally okay with sleeping in hostels I choose on price first and likelihood of getting bedbugs second. I'm alright with street food or eating a block of Tesco cheese in rain on the way back to the hostel. I don't drink or eat out much in my home life, so I kinda tend to follow that when I'm away too, unfortunately.

Just because we're together, that doesn't mean I'm gonna be paying for nice hotels and Michelin star every night. Half the lodging, and whatever you want to eat is on you honey.

I'm in Europe right now. I see all these dudes with these hot Euro girlfriends doing cute couple shit, and am I jealous? You damn right. All I got to look forward to is going home, and getting on tinder in a country full of fat bitches and maybe hope I get fraternize with one that's less of a pig. On the other hand, I've traveled with girls before and that'll wear you out too. They're always hungry and they're always tired. They wake up, they gotta get breakfast, then they gotta get ready. By the time they're ready, they're hungry again so it's lunch and by the time you can actually hit the street, it's like 3pm and what are you gonna do then? Meanwhile, I can get up, put on the same clothes I've worn three days, not shower, and not eating until I find a Lidl at noon or later doesn't bother me all that much. There's grass on both sides, but neither is greener, I guess I'm trying to say.

Feel you 100% on this. Traveling with women is a great way to get to know them, but it's also just a big pain in the ass. It's hard enough staying in one place with them - traveling takes it to a whole nother level. For starters:

- Silly photos hoots that take hours
- Make-up every time they head outside
- Disinclination to explore ("My feet hurt!")
- Preference for overpriced restaurants/cafés
- Disdain towards upermarkets and budget savers
- Itinerary that revolves around enhancing IG profile
- Random women shit ("I'm hungry!" But we just ate...)

The list goes on. Yes, you can learn a lot about women from traveling with them, but it tends to bring out the worst in them. The only women I would consider traveling with are the super feminine ones, but even then, I'd rather leave them home and go strike it out solo.

Is this really the best way to vet a potential wife?
 
Yeah man, the amount of picture taking is excessive. Everybody thinks they're an influencer these days. They all take the exact same photo. Same pose, same posture, looking away off in the distance, hair tussled. #traveling

I take more photos than a Japanese in Hollywood, but it's all of the landscape. I'm usually very unshaven, oily face, with wrinkled clothes. I don't need to bother somebody on the street to take a picture of that visage.

That's literally one of two pictures I have of myself in six weeks of being in Europe and that's in the 10-Z nuclear bunker in Brno and I just thought that's badass. Go thru the 10-Z of you're ever in Brno btw. Or stay there, part of it's a hostel.
 

Louis IX

Pelican
I don't really understand the question.
You only know a woman for real once you have lived under the same roof for at least a year.
The whole question is absurd. It s a definitive yes ; there is a need to cohabitate .
It doesn't mean you won't divorce though.
 

Robert High Hawk

Kingfisher
look at the divorce rate for people who lived together before getting married. Compare that to the divorce rate for those that don't. The rates (as of 5 years ago) are higher for those that DO. At best, there is a marginal difference, so the argument is moot.

And in fact, let's get a little crazy and consider all the break ups of those that do cohabitate AND those that cohabitate and then get married. That would blow the otherside out of the water.
 

LatinaLova

Sparrow
Robert High Hawk said:
look at the divorce rate for people who lived together before getting married. Compare that to the divorce rate for those that don't. The rates (as of 5 years ago) are higher for those that DO. At best, there is a marginal difference, so the argument is moot.

And in fact, let's get a little crazy and consider all the break ups of those that do cohabitate AND those that cohabitate and then get married. That would blow the otherside out of the water.

They divorce less because they have more conservative values (not because they don't cohabit). That's why they don't cohabit in the first place.
They may have strong (religious) values, social pressure making the divorce more challenging.
They may also have more kids and have them faster.

On the contrary, liberal people will be more prone to cohabitation and divorce. They see both things are more acceptable than the conservative folks.
 

PainPositive

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
Augustus_Principe said:
LOL at people saying "No, you have to cohabitate in order to have a successful relationship and future marriage!!!, I lived with my EX years ago..." I mean, if it were this great, successful thing to do, wouldn't you all be married with a couple children running around already? There would be no EXs in the picture.

I see this question in the same league as "Is 'dating' for x amount of years beneficial before getting married" But let me answer the question posed here. No, cohabitation is not a plan for success. As others have noted, there have already been studies proving this, and all of our own lives proving this as well. Perhaps people are suffering from cognitive dissonance, but the truth is, the vast majority of us have been in a failed relationship that involved cohabitation. We have to be truthful with ourselves. As men, we have to be rational and agree with the evidence presented to us in our own lives, as well as by study.

As I have posted elsewhere, we have to change the way we approach "dating". If you dont know if the girl you're talking to is cleanly, does housework, keeps her finances in order within the span of a few months, and you have to cohabitate in order to find these things out, you're not dating properly. Your mind is solely on fornication. If your mind is set on marriage from the start, I can guarantee you that you will know the answer to the questions posted here very quickly, You will find out through her, her parents, her family/friends etc. Basically, you will vet her in such a way, that you will already know for the most part, what to expect once you marry and live with her. The problem is we think of sex first, then the girls personality, THEN marriage as last. Of course we "dont find these things out" until years later... you werent in the right mindset on day one.

If it were better to cohabitate before marriage the research would support it. Couples who cohabitate before marriage don't have a lower divorce rate than others.

- Living together is considered to be more stressful than being married.

- Just over 50 percent of first cohabiting couples ever get married.

- In the United States and in the UK, couples who live together are at a greater risk for divorce than non-cohabiting couples.

- When evaluating relationships, couples who lived together before marriage tended to divorce early in their marriage.

- If their marriage lasts seven years, then their risk for divorce is the same as couples who didn't cohabit before marriage.

- Cohabiting couples had a separation rate five times that of married couples and a reconciliation rate that was one-third that of married couples.

- Cohabiting couples are more likely to experience infidelity.

- Compared to those planning to marry, those cohabiting have an overall poorer relationship quality. They tend to have more fighting and violence and less reported happiness.

- Compared with those who were married or unmarried and not cohabiting, cohabiting women and men were more likely to have no high school diploma or GED.

- Cohabiting couples earn less money and are less wealthy than their married peers later in life.

- Compared to married individuals, those cohabiting have higher levels of depression and substance abuse.

https://www.thespruce.com/cohabitation-facts-and-statistics-2302236
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
LatinaLova said:
Robert High Hawk said:
look at the divorce rate for people who lived together before getting married. Compare that to the divorce rate for those that don't. The rates (as of 5 years ago) are higher for those that DO. At best, there is a marginal difference, so the argument is moot.

And in fact, let's get a little crazy and consider all the break ups of those that do cohabitate AND those that cohabitate and then get married. That would blow the otherside out of the water.

They divorce less because they have more conservative values (not because they don't cohabit). That's why they don't cohabit in the first place.
They may have strong (religious) values, social pressure making the divorce more challenging.
They may also have more kids and have them faster.

On the contrary, liberal people will be more prone to cohabitation and divorce. They see both things are more acceptable than the conservative folks.

This.

If you come from a traditional community then do things the traditional way. You're clearly better off.

But if you don't come from a traditional community then I suggest cohabitation is a good way to find out what kind of a person you're really dealing with.

Traditional couples marrying and moving in together place the presumption on working out differences. With non-traditional couples the presumption is on weeding out unsuitable marriage candidates before hopefully tying the knot with someone viable. Given the typical 2-years-to-marriage-3-years-to-pregnancy biological-window rule you'll generally seek to move in with a possible candidate for marriage after 6 months to a year of being in a monogamous relationship with them, leaving a year to 18 months before proposing.

Sometimes cohabitation escalates over time with her progressively spending more nights at your house and leaving more of her stuff there. If she starts making herself useful immediately then she's on the up. If she just mooches then tell her "I need space its not you its me I'm married to the sea".
 

quaker13

Kingfisher
Why would any man in his right mind want to cut his bachelorhood short to live a woman he's not even married or engaged to? You guys sound insanely codependent. What are you hoping to discover? A meth or coke habit? Slovenly living conditions? Seriously, what are you looking to realize that a man with game and experience couldn't discover in the same time frame by living separately over the course of 2-3 years?
 
JiggyLordJr said:
Eazy_E said:
Fuck that, you wanna come with me, we go Dutch, straight down the fucking middle. When I travel, I'm totally okay with sleeping in hostels I choose on price first and likelihood of getting bedbugs second. I'm alright with street food or eating a block of Tesco cheese in rain on the way back to the hostel. I don't drink or eat out much in my home life, so I kinda tend to follow that when I'm away too, unfortunately.

Just because we're together, that doesn't mean I'm gonna be paying for nice hotels and Michelin star every night. Half the lodging, and whatever you want to eat is on you honey.

I'm in Europe right now. I see all these dudes with these hot Euro girlfriends doing cute couple shit, and am I jealous? You damn right. All I got to look forward to is going home, and getting on tinder in a country full of fat bitches and maybe hope I get fraternize with one that's less of a pig. On the other hand, I've traveled with girls before and that'll wear you out too. They're always hungry and they're always tired. They wake up, they gotta get breakfast, then they gotta get ready. By the time they're ready, they're hungry again so it's lunch and by the time you can actually hit the street, it's like 3pm and what are you gonna do then? Meanwhile, I can get up, put on the same clothes I've worn three days, not shower, and not eating until I find a Lidl at noon or later doesn't bother me all that much. There's grass on both sides, but neither is greener, I guess I'm trying to say.

Feel you 100% on this. Traveling with women is a great way to get to know them, but it's also just a big pain in the ass. It's hard enough staying in one place with them - traveling takes it to a whole nother level. For starters:

- Silly photos hoots that take hours
- Make-up every time they head outside
- Disinclination to explore ("My feet hurt!")
- Preference for overpriced restaurants/cafés
- Disdain towards upermarkets and budget savers
- Itinerary that revolves around enhancing IG profile
- Random women shit ("I'm hungry!" But we just ate...)

The list goes on. Yes, you can learn a lot about women from traveling with them, but it tends to bring out the worst in them. The only women I would consider traveling with are the super feminine ones, but even then, I'd rather leave them home and go strike it out solo.

Is this really the best way to vet a potential wife?

It's not the best, it's one of many things you could try.

By your list above, it sounds like you choose your mates poorly and you don't exercise much authority in the relationship. I've traveled with a handful of young women and the only issue from your list I've run into is that their feet hurt walking in heels on the cobblestone because they wanted to look good for a special night out.

I also don't get this pride in being a cheapskate, staying in shit places, and eating bland supermarket food while traveling. Half of the reason I travel to Europe (Italy, Portugal, France) is to experience the food and culture.

There are tourist traps on both ends of the cost spectrum, but somewhere near the middle are wonderful family-run or quaint places where you get to chat with the owner (chef or landlord) and have an amazing experience. Who cares if you pay for the chick's dinner? It's not a first date. Presumably you're taking them on a trip because you are serious and you enjoy their company.
 
quaker13 said:
Why would any man in his right mind want to cut his bachelorhood short to live a woman he's not even married or engaged to? You guys sound insanely codependent. What are you hoping to discover? A meth or coke habit? Slovenly living conditions? Seriously, what are you looking to realize that a man with game and experience couldn't discover in the same time frame by living separately over the course of 2-3 years?

Exactly. In my opinion the most important thing about woman is whether you and her can have healthy and high-quality offspring. Therefore, you should look for good qualities in a partner in her physical, mental and social aspects. You dont need to live with someone to know whether she is a good mate choice for you.

It's a good idea to give each other space also, perhaps even another bedroom/office for you if possible. Then you are not stuck too close to someone to let little things bother you, or her.
 
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