Collapse in British Nightclubs

N°6

Hummingbird
If I was a developer who was interested in nightlife, my money would be on the cocktail bar.

I have noticed that the gender ratios are good in cocktail bars and the staff consist mostly of skilled and semi-skilled men. A couple of such clubs have opened near me but I am surprised that none has the 1960s cocktail bar look to capitalise from Mad Men.

As for gentlemen's clubs, I wonder if they would fall foul of sexual discrimination laws because women want to join clubs that won't have them while those who do tend to become cock-fests.
 

SlickyBoy

Hummingbird
Phoenix said:
N°6 said:
Dangerously loud music (shown to create anxiety and a sense of isolation to cause people to drink more) makes socialising impossible

That's interesting. Do you have any sources for this? I'm aware that clubs are basically moderately savvy businessmen preying on hordes of clueless young men, so this wouldn't surprise me.

Here you go, it's apparently got some legs.

Commercial venues are very aware of the effects that the environment -- in this case, music -- can have on in-store traffic flow, sales volumes, product choices, and consumer time spent in the immediate vicinity. A study of the effects of music levels on drinking in a bar setting has found that loud music leads to more drinking in less time.
 

SlickyBoy

Hummingbird
Sonoma said:
In San Francisco the bars are alive and well- few cover charges, relatively cheap drinks and a lot of young people.

There are plenty of great cocktail bars, but most of that action revolves around social circle game. The gaming aspect of SF has been done to death in other threads, but suffice it to say it isn't the best city - SoCal is much better.

I think clubs generally are dying a slow death, at least in the west. Once upon a time, you could go to any city where you didn't know anyone, have your game wired tight, hit a club and stand a good chance of a ONS or at least a couple of numbers. Definitely not the case now in ManFrancisco, where the clubs truly suck. Same problems - way too many guys, overpriced cover charges, rip off bottle $ervice, ridiculously loud (and often bad) music with prison guard bouncers. When only 25-30% of the crowd is female and half of them brought boyfriends, it just isn't worth it.
 

N°6

Hummingbird
SlickyBoy said:
Sonoma said:
In San Francisco the bars are alive and well- few cover charges, relatively cheap drinks and a lot of young people.

There are plenty of great cocktail bars, but most of that action revolves around social circle game. The gaming aspect of SF has been done to death in other threads, but suffice it to say it isn't the best city - SoCal is much better.

I think clubs generally are dying a slow death, at least in the west. Once upon a time, you could go to any city where you didn't know anyone, have your game wired tight, hit a club and stand a good chance of a ONS or at least a couple of numbers. Definitely not the case now in ManFrancisco, where the clubs truly suck. Same problems - way too many guys, overpriced cover charges, rip off bottle $ervice, ridiculously loud (and often bad) music with prison guard bouncers. When only 25-30% of the crowd is female and half of them brought boyfriends, it just isn't worth it.

People - especially women - in the West don't talk to strangers in bars often. I think developers should look to Meet Up which bring in groups of people who don't know each other but who clearly want to.
 

Fortis

Crow
Gold Member
I think this is a good thing: for too long clubs have treated people like cattle and people are wising up. Why go to a club full of obnoxious bouncers, rude bartenders and unfriendly people when you can hop on tinder and have a date that night (depending on your region)?

Now, I think the bigger issue is that social venues overall are on the decline. I go out in china and you will see tables full of people on their cellphones not talking. That is fucking insane.
 

Ember

Ostrich
Gold Member
The quality and originality of electronic dance music has been nosediving since the late 90's. I used to club/dj a lot but it lost the magic post 2000. Maybe I just got old but for me the golden age of UK clubbing was '89 to mid 90's.
 

Lucario

Woodpecker
StrikeBack said:
Phoenix said:
N°6 said:
Dangerously loud music (shown to create anxiety and a sense of isolation to cause people to drink more) makes socialising impossible

That's interesting. Do you have any sources for this? I'm aware that clubs are basically moderately savvy businessmen preying on hordes of clueless young men, so this wouldn't surprise me.

I don't have any source handy, but I heard the exact same thing quoted by a friend of my mum who used to be a popular club DJ back in the 80s when club owners first learned of this research. Since then, it's been a race to higher and higher decibels.

Regarding the topic, I think it's similar in Australia. While night clubs have gone down in numbers, bars with equally loud music and a lot more seats (thus making approaches a thousand times harder, particularly with girls all going out in mixed groups) are now everywhere. Similarly, small restaurants, desert / appetizer places have mushroomed all over my city, and there are significantly more cute girls in those (usually on a date or with a group of girls) than live music venues or night clubs that I've been to lately. They are all venues where people get to spend lots of money among groups of people they already know, and terrible for meeting and socialising with new people.

In my opinion, I think it has everything to do with feminism and that internet/tinder/social media are just a symptom and not a root cause. It is just messed up that a people, especially women can be so socially retarded that they would prefer to meet a man over the internet rather than socially.

For example, when I went to Sydney, I found much better ratios and a better night scene, and Brisbane is predominantly a night scene based place with way better ratios than Melb.

I know girls with smart phones, but they still have solid social skills and don't even meet guys with a smart phone, and not surprisingly they are red pill and don't subscribe to feminism and SJW BS.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Gold Member
Going on a limb here, but at least stateside the music they're playing is trash. EDM in 2015 is by far the most unoriginal music.

Lets throw in a beat drop in with some female chick overtop of it. No real discernible melody or harmony. And to top it off you need to be super wasted to enjoy the music.

Garix, deadmua5, and Tiesto have ruined club and house music.
 

Kieran

Pelican
Gold Member
^ Always amazes me that a country with such an amazing history of dance music (Detroit Techno, Chicago House) could be into such shite.
 

mogsy

Sparrow
N°6 said:
I find myself without sympathy for UK nightclubs:

*Staff treating people as prison inmates rather than customers;
*Horrendous gender imbalances
*Packing in people as much as the fire officer allows;
*Overpriced cover and drink charges
*Clubs tend to harm daytime businesses and neighbouring residences
*Dangerously loud music (shown to create anxiety and a sense of isolation to cause people to drink more) makes socialising impossible

Did you read my mind or did we goto the same places, if neither of these then it must mean this really is happening all over the UK!

The cost of rent/rates to run a small bar/nightclub is a real profit killer so before even adding in the staff wages of people it makes it very difficult to break a profit without keeping the entry fees/drink prices high. For the people who own the buildings, it may become more profitable for the buildings owner to turn the buildings into residential property and sell it off or rent it out as apartments.

The real problem I see is that the majority of nightlife businesses are set out to be make as much money as possible in the quickest amount of time, there seems to be a mentality of get rich quick in most of these bars/nightclubs, taking advantage of the situation of lack of competition. Fair enough but the customer experience in these sorts of places are usually awful, I am sure that some clubs don't want people hooking up and talking so they design people to look at the dance floor and make the music too loud to talk, so they drink more and come back next week

People have definitely changed the way that they interact with others, now with people spending hours on social media feeling that they are connected and getting their fix when someone of the opposite sex likes their post, it can easily entertain people and encourage them not to leave their house or their bed and smartphone. Tinder is another fad and like online dating its popularity will fade just like when friends reunited was a way for people to connect, now its almost impossible not to be able to connect with people you know, whether this is good or bad is down to the individuals perspective.

Summary
-Security staff aren't friendly and often strict
-Bars are overcrowded and understaffed
-Expensive and poor value compared to europe
-Majority are oversized and not so attractive women or ladettes
-Hotter girls get their egos boosted too much by beta guys
-Clubs seem to be designed to encourage people to not talk and just get drunk
-People are glued to their smartphones thinking about being anywhere but where they are
 
Kieran said:
^ Always amazes me that a country with such an amazing history of dance music (Detroit Techno, Chicago House) could be into such shite.

Off topic : Chicago had some crazy DJs spinning dope mixes back in the early 90's.
I remember having that tape deck ready to record. Anytime ....Anywhere!!!
 

Akula

Ostrich
Gold Member
SlickyBoy said:
Sonoma said:
In San Francisco the bars are alive and well- few cover charges, relatively cheap drinks and a lot of young people.

There are plenty of great cocktail bars, but most of that action revolves around social circle game. The gaming aspect of SF has been done to death in other threads, but suffice it to say it isn't the best city - SoCal is much better.

I think clubs generally are dying a slow death, at least in the west. Once upon a time, you could go to any city where you didn't know anyone, have your game wired tight, hit a club and stand a good chance of a ONS or at least a couple of numbers. Definitely not the case now in ManFrancisco, where the clubs truly suck. Same problems - way too many guys, overpriced cover charges, rip off bottle $ervice, ridiculously loud (and often bad) music with prison guard bouncers. When only 25-30% of the crowd is female and half of them brought boyfriends, it just isn't worth it.

This is spot on, especially the last sentence (at least in most of the Anglosphere cities outside NYC and Vegas, maybe Miami).

I'm constantly amazed at how bad the "value proposition" is in most clubs in the bigger US cities. Horrible ratios with less than say 10-20% of the club consisting of women who are truly available or bangable. The rest are either club / bottle rats, entitled fatties, attention-seeking pairs of girls or bachelorette parties or girls there with guys. Not worth it.
 

N°6

Hummingbird
rotekz said:
The quality and originality of electronic dance music has been nosediving since the late 90's. I used to club/dj a lot but it lost the magic post 2000. Maybe I just got old but for me the golden age of UK clubbing was '89 to mid 90's.

You might be in the position to answer this question: Why hasn't 'Electro' music taken off in the UK?

When I lived in France, a lot of its nightclubs played this music. It wasn't offensive music in that you could enjoy it AND enjoy conversations at the same time.
 

N°6

Hummingbird

Very interesting although there is too much emphasis in the 'geek' thing.

'Gamer bars' are no different than the old card playing or chess playing bars.
 

mogsy

Sparrow
N°6 said:
You might be in the position to answer this question: Why hasn't 'Electro' music taken off in the UK?

When I lived in France, a lot of its nightclubs played this music. It wasn't offensive music in that you could enjoy it AND enjoy conversations at the same time.

It seems that the djs are only interested in playing cheesy music that they think the crowd will like, its very rare to go to bars and actually hear a new track nevermind something that hasn't even been released yet.

Most of the bars and clubs now see djs as just a commodity and the cheaper the better, I know some that don't even pay as there are so many people wanting to dj they will do it for free or just some free drinks. Combine the free djs with a bar owner who is a cheapskate means the music is going to be the same rubbish, playing the same cheesy stuff every week. The cheap djs then are too scared to play music they want because the bar owners complain if its not inline with their views of good music.

It seems that indie rock and the usual pop music is the most common music being played over and over.
 

beta_plus

Pelican
Attractive Women, whose number is shrinking due to declining birth rates plus rising obesity, no longer feel the need to go to bars and clubs to meet men thanks to Tinder - they can go straight for the alpha male by just swiping. Men are not going to pay nearly $10 for a place that does not have those women to meet, and therefore the bars will empty out. We're seeing the same thing in DC. Many of the bars on the outskirts in Arlington and Georgetown are closing (Gtown does not appear to have any place left after Rhinos closing that one could consider even a bit clubby), while more central places like Dupont and U street are noticeably quiet even on what should be prime nights
 

Ethan Hunt

Kingfisher
Gold Member
mogsy said:
N°6 said:
You might be in the position to answer this question: Why hasn't 'Electro' music taken off in the UK?

When I lived in France, a lot of its nightclubs played this music. It wasn't offensive music in that you could enjoy it AND enjoy conversations at the same time.

It seems that the djs are only interested in playing cheesy music that they think the crowd will like, its very rare to go to bars and actually hear a new track nevermind something that hasn't even been released yet.

Most of the bars and clubs now see djs as just a commodity and the cheaper the better, I know some that don't even pay as there are so many people wanting to dj they will do it for free or just some free drinks. Combine the free djs with a bar owner who is a cheapskate means the music is going to be the same rubbish, playing the same cheesy stuff every week. The cheap djs then are too scared to play music they want because the bar owners complain if its not inline with their views of good music.

It seems that indie rock and the usual pop music is the most common music being played over and over.

There's a club in my town that does play electro and needless to say it is DOMINATED by non English. I'd say around 90% of the patrons are from EE.

It's interesting that you mention DJ's working for free. I know of a few clubs that have ran two month long competitions for a "residency" spot. During that period they can benefit by having enthusiastic DJ's play for free. I never really considered the cost saving motivation behind it. I did work for a club that had two residents and they were both paid in cash each night.

If they DJ looks cooler he will generally play cooler songs though. There is a reason why they do play the same "cheesy" songs and it is because they want the crowd singing. There was a time where you could guarantee that the last song played was either Robbie Williams - Angels, The Killers - Mr Brightside or Kings of Lion - Sex On Fire. They were easy to get the crowd, especially girls, singing along and draw my guys to the floor.

One bar I went to a few years ago had a room on the top floor playing some techno where the DJ was mixing on the computer and the beats were played on an electric drum kit by another musician. It was a fairly small set but the music was pretty incredible. The room was not that busy though which was a shame. But it was great to see that they'd put real effort into their work.
 
SlickyBoy said:
Sonoma said:
In San Francisco the bars are alive and well- few cover charges, relatively cheap drinks and a lot of young people.

There are plenty of great cocktail bars, but most of that action revolves around social circle game. The gaming aspect of SF has been done to death in other threads, but suffice it to say it isn't the best city - SoCal is much better.

I think clubs generally are dying a slow death, at least in the west. Once upon a time, you could go to any city where you didn't know anyone, have your game wired tight, hit a club and stand a good chance of a ONS or at least a couple of numbers. Definitely not the case now in ManFrancisco, where the clubs truly suck. Same problems - way too many guys, overpriced cover charges, rip off bottle $ervice, ridiculously loud (and often bad) music with prison guard bouncers. When only 25-30% of the crowd is female and half of them brought boyfriends, it just isn't worth it.



Well I will say both SF and LA are significantly better than most other cities in the USA and Canada. There are some better Mexican cities, in my honest opinion, though.

SoCal women seem to have a bit higher standards than SF women. You're competing with C-E list celebrities, more musicians and wannabe artists and photographers, the Hollywood scene in general, and the wealthier men there have significantly more game than the ones in SF. SoCal is significantly more "who you know" as well - just like Vegas and South beach, many guys just will get flat out denied to the clubs that have a lot of single and interested women. There are most definitely hotter women in SoCal than SF/Oakland, but they are just that much harder to even pull. SF women will also do a lot of the work, and will reciprocate a bit more. But you have to take this with a grain of salt because what works for me might not work for everyone else. I do have a couple of clubs that I still love in SF, that haven't really hit the radar of the sausages yet. But perhaps that has changed in the last 6 months since I've been.


That being said, the influx of desperate men from Silicon Valley have really hurt SF in recent years. But its often easy to distinguish yourself from them - just dress different!!
 

Kieran

Pelican
Gold Member
Electro was big here around 2004 - 2007 sort of time. DJs like Erol Alkan, Meat Katie, and Stanton Warriors were all over the place at events up and down the country at that time. Then the whole French electro thing started getting big with Ed Banger records (Justice, Surkin, etc.). Times change though and it all suddenly seemed kind of dated. Minimal Techno was big at the same time and kept going pretty strong for a while but that faded too.
 
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