College is just not worth it anymore

American here. I'm well aware in countries like European ones college is free although living expenses might be higher. Be a lifelong learner and take action with your knowledge, anyone pushing college is out of touch with the times or has a financial agenda to make you a slave to the system.

I agree with the general sentiment here. College for me was a royal waste of time but at this point complaining about it won't change anything. Even with STEM I don't agree with that as a topic like Computer Science can be learned online and by committing to a 4 year or even 2 year masters is a ripoff and by the time you begin job searching chances are high some of the knowledge is outdated. I don't want to get into detail but I'm kind of thinking about going back. If we're about to see the mother of all economic meltdowns next year might as well take out a fixed interest rate loan and game the system? This thread can help me make my decision or if I should look into other opportunities.

Many of my teachers were foreign diversity hires who were simply there because of their ethnicity and were basically glorified slide readers.

My hands down "favorite" professor was this liberal foreign import from a commie country espousing commie ideology. In hindsight I realize supporting the IMF, the World Bank, and failed economists like Jeffery Sachs is a surefire sign of a liberal blowhard. I had another who advocated for altruism and peaceful foreign affairs. Only in America can you push your crazy ideology when in the real world money is generally the end all be all and cruel people stomp on others. If I had to compile a list of a top 10 must read books for people in their early 20s I think Status by Paul Fussell would be on that list. It doesn't matter the situation, location, or occupation that book explains every social situation.

I've heard of a boomer PhD in my alma mater who although she was highly qualified to talk about the subject she was boorish and couldn't interact with people without bringing money to the house (the university). I can't prove it but I think people in corporate America think PhDs are mentally unstable.

PS I'm not sure if the thread still exists but I swear I read on here to sign up for classes at the local community college and use the college resources like the gym and the library.
 
College would be much more worthwhile if:

1. They dropped gen ed requirements. Seriously if I'm paying for a degree in computer science why do I need to take a history class? High school is the place for those gen ed classes, college shouod be purely about a speciality.
2. You should be able to test out of all classes. Whether that means its a lengthy comprehensive exam or some type of practical project, I shouldn't have to pay for a course in "intro to web design" if I already know web design. Let me pay a fee, take a test, and get the credits.
3. All textbooks should be open source. In this day and age there are very few subjects that do not have valuable open source textbook options. It's ridiculous for professors to require $200 books just because it'a the new years edition. Calculus hasn't changed in how long? Then why the heck do I need to purchase the 2021 calculus book instead of the super cheap 2019 one?
4. Speaking of textbooks, and assuming the college receives any favorable government aid, any textbooks (and the class syllabus) required for a class should have to be provided for free to the local public library (maybe at a ratio of 1 book for every 20 students enrolled in the class or something). This enables my point #2 to be more powerful: i can read the syllabus for the class and study on my own time at the local library and then test out of the class.
 

Towgunner

Woodpecker
No, college is definitely not worth it any more. Many academics are coming to this conclusion. The driving force here? Leftism. They destroy everything they touch. Prof. Brett Weinstein (of evergreen state college) knows this all to well and has said the academy is over. Recently, he discussed with his wife on the Darkhorse podcast series a newly appointed head of a Physics department at a prestigious university. The new appointee was appointed by way of a diversity and equity criteria. So, big surprise, a female person of color, who probably has many other intersectional points, was appointed. Brett and his wife were adamant when they said "This is the end of the academy". In this instance, the diversity and equity component to this hiring decision exceeded competency and merit. I can't recall the exact details, but, it was obvious the chosen person was not the most qualified. Situations like this are occurring all over academia. Its systemic. And it is destroying this institution.

People fail to appreciate just how complete the failure of this institution is. Not only that, but, just how evil this institution has become too. They can't even fulfill the basic and obvious mission, which is NOT to teach people to think or to think critically, rather, to be competent at things like their respective major or even reading and writing. The word exploitation comes to mind. Because they exploit these kids futures by making them into indentured servants with the ever growing tuition. They exploit these kids to be the vanguard of their twisted and warped ideology. So, not only are they fleecing these kids of money to enrich themselves they're also using these kids as pawns to satisfy their selfish politics and cult.

When the riots erupted last year we got to see first hand the "army" created by academia. Young females from Milton Ma, a very wealthy town, with rich parents squeezing a small toy pig in the face of a police officer calling him a virgin and saying his kids hate him. That is the output of academia. Is this person competent in anything? No. And she's a bartender.
 
I'm finishing up a bachelor's in mechanical engineering. This will be my last semester.

For me, I know full well most of the college thing is BS. I chose mechanical engineering because it would involve the least amount of brainwashing in addition to the largest amount of actually relevant material in terms of things you need to know in this field.

Lots of people have encouraged me to get a masters, but if anyone is going to try to make me do more zoom lectures they're going to have to shoot me.
Similar boat here except civil engineering from a smaller regional campus. My degree is definitely helping me land a job but outside of, professional services like engineering, medicine (sort of ) and maybe law/business/economics? , I agree with the original post. I have also considered getting a Master's but after looking into the program (especially in the pandemic context) it is a total scam I have to conclude. At this point, the access to certain books and research resources would be about the only thing keeping me at a university just so I could actually learn more through my own study. Main point, I don't regret getting my engineering degree, but I do think college as a whole is a scam, especially large scale universities.
 

Towgunner

Woodpecker
Web based learning will do to establishment academia what streaming online did to establishment media. There's a massive disruption going on right now. The academy will selfishly hold onto their institutions as long as they can. Its there meal ticket and for all their pompous and pedantic imabicpantameters, they're just like the rest of us. They'll do anything to keep their cushy and easy life. Someday soon a wayward professor will be serving you coffee.
 

Zagor

Woodpecker
In Croatia college is 'free' (subsidised by taxpayers) and it stays free as long as you don't fail any classes. For those you do fail, you need to pay some simbolic fee. If you fail the whole year, then you need to pay full yearly tuition which is about....wait for it....rougly 1500 USD. So basically you can get a degree in , let's say, medicine for free and you probably won't get worse education than from a top US university, only less prestigious. To think that you guys need to go over 100 000 USD in debt to get a degree is mindblowing to an european.
 
Web based learning will do to establishment academia what streaming online did to establishment media. There's a massive disruption going on right now. The academy will selfishly hold onto their institutions as long as they can. Its there meal ticket and for all their pompous and pedantic imabicpantameters, they're just like the rest of us. They'll do anything to keep their cushy and easy life. Someday soon a wayward professor will be serving you coffee.
Strangely enough I'm listening to an audiobook about marketing and how filesharing sites like Napster killed the record stores.

One of the professors I mentioned retired recently and she's been in the job for 15+ years. Throw in Covid and the fact that most teens want to party in college and not attend online classes.

The elite unis will still stay afloat but the D league will be out the door.
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Gold Member
It is a waste of time I flushed away about eight years when I should have been out travelling, working or starting a business. It has not given me nothing but gave me too many skills which don't really serve me and wasted time I could have better used to get other life skills. No college life like you see in the movies where I went either, and a lot of socialists.
 
Maybe things are coming full-circle in an overdue manner.

Pre-WWII, a person went to college to prepare for a profession (law, medicine, or engineering/science), teaching, or to be an academic (i.e., teach in college). To teach in public school, when my grandmother went less than a hundred years ago, it was a two-year degree.

High school was serious and most people did not graduate high school. My wife's grandfather was a banker and his education was a high school diploma and a correspondence course in banking. Jobs like nursing, hospitals had training programs.

It changed due to wars. Post WWII a bunch of GI's were coming back, and maybe to keep unemployment down the GI bill would send them to college. College was more serious back then, and they surely got something out of it, but it made a lot more graduates so employers began to ask for degrees when used to they did not--if the graduates were out there, why not?

Then during Vietnam, going to college was a way to get a deferment, so more and more people went. At the same time, since that was where all the guys were going, the women started showing up to get MRS degrees. So again, more people going to college meant more employers arbitrarily asking for degrees. A degree showed a person could stick to something, and the education still meant something.

Two things happened around this time. The hippies hated western civilization, so lobbied to turn the core curriculum (American history, world history, western literature, etc.) into a bunch of mush. Used to going through the core curriculum could produce a well-read and well-informed person. Now it really does not mean anything. I agree with others, it ought to be dropped outright.

Then, the Dept of Education was created in the late 1970's. Before that, the administration of a typical small college was the college president, the dean, the president's secretary, a book keeper, and not much more. Now, to get goodies from the feds they had to hire lots of administrators to fill out forms and prove compliance. Thus here we are today when colleges have more administrators on the payroll than professors. Someone has to pay those administrators.

Speaking of administrators, when I started college, it was at a science/engineering school and every president for the last hundred years had been a scientist in one of the fields the school taught. Traditionally, he taught one class a semester. That changed, and in came a president who had been an administrator. Instead of a focus on quality education it became a spreadsheet about the bottom line, mainly by promoting the school while (I suspect) lowering the academic rigor to boost enrollment by a 1/3rd or more. Added some dorms, most new professors were adjunct and not tenure track, and I suppose the money rolled in.

Another hit was the 2008 financial crash. I suspect it was engineered when McCain was ahead in the polls, so as to give the lead to Obama. Who then took pains to keep the country down. In my field I saw wages go down during that time period, and I felt sorry for anyone graduating those years. More kids went to college and more stayed for advanced degrees trying to ride out the recession. Which functionally ended after Trump came to power. The point is, yet more people were going to college.

Along the way, anything bad happening, the government was supposed to fix it. Administrators got into an arms race to add luxury dorms, lazy rivers, weight rooms, etc., to attract students. Textbook publishers consolidated then saw not reason to keep costs down. Since the government was supposed to do something, the costs got paid for by student loans guarenteed by the American tax payer, with no regard to what the students were actually studying.

You could throw in the "toxic masculinity" thing, and guess who are masculine? Welders, pipe fitters, plumbers, oil field workers, mechanics, electricians, construction workers, linemen, etc. The guys we actually really need. What do you think a soyboy did? Go to welding school or go to college for a liberal arts degree? By the way, "liberal arts" was coined in ancient times because liberal (free ) arts were what the free (i.e., upper class) did to pass the time. For a living people engaged in servile arts. I do not think it would have occurred to many that a person could make a living at liberal arts back then. Only truly exceptional people could hope to gain a patron to support their philosophical musings, astronomy, etc.

Anyway we need to go back to where we were about a hundred years ago. It worked just fine. Make high school mean something, promote correspondence courses for specific tasks, and leave college for the professions. How to do that, well, anyone who hires people, stop asking for college degrees.
 

Bright_Sun

Chicken
This topic really resonates with me right now.

I went to a public elementary school, and my parents homeschooled me through grades 6 to 12 because they didn't want me to be exposed to the immorality and indoctrination in public schools.

My homeschool education felt significantly more difficult than my public education had been, plus my homeschool curriculum was Christian-oriented.

At the age of 19, I got a job at a warehouse making decent money ($40-50K per year) and started saving up.

Fast-forward now to the present day. I'm 25, have a house, own my cars, and have no debt.

However, I felt like I wasn't going anywhere with my life, so I started thinking about ways I could quit my current job and do something else like getting a better paying job or starting my own business or both.

My job is physically demanding, and my pay is already capped out. Plus, who knows if my employer will require me to take a COVID vaccine or a PCR test to keep working?

So I thought it was best to have more options.

My employer offers online degree programs that they basically completely pay for, including a B.S. in Computer Science. Many software engineers online say that a degree helps you get an interview, especially when you have no professional experience.

I signed up for that program about a month ago, and I regret it.

So far, all I've been studying is Liberal Arts and a course on how to study properly. I always did well in school, and I already know how to study, so why can't I just take the final test and skip that?

And Liberal Arts? Just a bunch of propaganda about global warming and racism and whatnot. Apparently, I'm supposed to study this because "it makes me a well-rounded open-minded individual that can think and adapt to change". Seriously?

I don't think I actually get to learn about anything related to computer science until almost a year in.

Besides, I already have a decent understanding of computer science. I spent most of my free time as a teenager studying programming, database development, web development, game design, and the like using multiple languages and tools. My dad worked for the state as a web and database developer, and I helped him troubleshoot a lot of the problems that he had.

I'm seriously considering withdrawing from this online college and using the 10-20 hours a week I'm wasting on this degree to updating my knowledge and creating a portfolio to land a job with.

The only reason I even signed up for this is because I don't really have to pay for it, but I'm losing a lot of my free time writing essays about bullshit that doesn't really matter.

Not sure if this degree will create that many more opportunities for me.

Any advice? I feel like I don't really need this degree to get a job as a front-end developer, but I want to make sure before I withdraw.
 

Mike_Key

Woodpecker
All really great comments ... and leaning toward 'College bad'.

I'll add, when considering whether you'll go to college think about your parents. Were or are they bright and smart. If so, then that may have rubbed off on you. I wasn't naturally as bright as RooshV or Rush Limbaugh (he had a father that was a Lawyer). I learned plenty from the basics to the most difficult of theory in college, even social etiquette. Also, think about your siblings - how are they doing. If your family is working class or middle class - what tips and tricks are being used thrive? If you are upper class then you are probably cruising and surviving off of Mail-Box Money, incoming cash, and Dividends. In that case you might get bored in early retirement.

I needed college to be as bright as others. I suppose I could have made a good mechanic, chef, hair-stylists business owner, etc. What I have observed from Businessmen is that they are not necessarily rich, they have Bank loans. They feed money or profits back into their business. They have sizable toys but if hard times hit, they sell those toys to make Pay-roll on Friday morning. Also, it strikes me that without college certain Businessmen don't necessarily save for retirement and another fault, sometimes they or their wives have vices (that I can't afford or that I learned in college to avoid) like drinking alcohol and gambling in Louisiana and Vegas. I've seen some of them die with little retirement cash and/or die as alcoholics. But this crosses all groups of people, those formally educated or not.

In talking to businessmen, I find that they often have sob stories of not having clients. Will you have clients? A clip-board of names and/or a software with names and Invoices? You have to be ready to lose big clients, what then? In general, will you be a reliable employee or have reliable employees that you trust to not screw up the Contract or work request?

This one older timer once said, "Young kids need to learn how to build it, paint it and sell it." I think that is so true, with College or no college.

One last story, you need chutzpah, fortitude, whichever route you choose. In college if you choose Math, EE, Physics, etc ... those are challenging.

In business you need to know when to promise something big, very big at which point you run to the Bank and get the largest loan you've asked for. A small-time HVAC friend of mine was asked if he could take on a contract of thousands of units (likely 5,000 to 10,000 units, I can't recall). He knew that he couldn't and that it was over his head, but he said Yes. He ran to the bank and start hiring people immediately. I see his trucks all over town these days.

One last one, never put an uneducated family member in charge of contracts. They will be sniffed out by the wily, shrewd, guy on the other side of the table and you'll end up doing a $10 million dollar job for $5 million after the contract has been switched and minutia/details are overlooked. And in that case, I don't think there is anything a Judge can do about it.

John 3:16
 
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Douglas Quaid

Kingfisher
College is only worth it if you want a career that requires a degree, so engineering, CPA, nursing, etc.

It's all nonsense about needing college to find yourself, be well rounded, think critically, etc. And if college is the best years of your life, you need to make some serious changes.

Most of the classes are completely useless as well, especially gen eds and the business core (for business majors). Even several engineers have told me they use maybe 10% of what they learned in school. To a logical person this is all an incredible waste of time and money, but our society is obsessed with unnecessary credentials.

If you have to get a degree, do it as cheaply as possible, and keep as much of your money out of these parasites' hands as you can. And all of this is ignoring the destructive politics and indoctrination, which makes it 10 times worse.

There are lots of ways to make good money without a college degree.
 
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Monty_Brogan

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Maybe things are coming full-circle in an overdue manner.

Pre-WWII, a person went to college to prepare for a profession (law, medicine, or engineering/science), teaching, or to be an academic (i.e., teach in college). To teach in public school, when my grandmother went less than a hundred years ago, it was a two-year degree.

High school was serious and most people did not graduate high school. My wife's grandfather was a banker and his education was a high school diploma and a correspondence course in banking. Jobs like nursing, hospitals had training programs.

It changed due to wars. Post WWII a bunch of GI's were coming back, and maybe to keep unemployment down the GI bill would send them to college. College was more serious back then, and they surely got something out of it, but it made a lot more graduates so employers began to ask for degrees when used to they did not--if the graduates were out there, why not?

Then during Vietnam, going to college was a way to get a deferment, so more and more people went. At the same time, since that was where all the guys were going, the women started showing up to get MRS degrees. So again, more people going to college meant more employers arbitrarily asking for degrees. A degree showed a person could stick to something, and the education still meant something.

Two things happened around this time. The hippies hated western civilization, so lobbied to turn the core curriculum (American history, world history, western literature, etc.) into a bunch of mush. Used to going through the core curriculum could produce a well-read and well-informed person. Now it really does not mean anything. I agree with others, it ought to be dropped outright.

Then, the Dept of Education was created in the late 1970's. Before that, the administration of a typical small college was the college president, the dean, the president's secretary, a book keeper, and not much more. Now, to get goodies from the feds they had to hire lots of administrators to fill out forms and prove compliance. Thus here we are today when colleges have more administrators on the payroll than professors. Someone has to pay those administrators.

Speaking of administrators, when I started college, it was at a science/engineering school and every president for the last hundred years had been a scientist in one of the fields the school taught. Traditionally, he taught one class a semester. That changed, and in came a president who had been an administrator. Instead of a focus on quality education it became a spreadsheet about the bottom line, mainly by promoting the school while (I suspect) lowering the academic rigor to boost enrollment by a 1/3rd or more. Added some dorms, most new professors were adjunct and not tenure track, and I suppose the money rolled in.

Another hit was the 2008 financial crash. I suspect it was engineered when McCain was ahead in the polls, so as to give the lead to Obama. Who then took pains to keep the country down. In my field I saw wages go down during that time period, and I felt sorry for anyone graduating those years. More kids went to college and more stayed for advanced degrees trying to ride out the recession. Which functionally ended after Trump came to power. The point is, yet more people were going to college.

Along the way, anything bad happening, the government was supposed to fix it. Administrators got into an arms race to add luxury dorms, lazy rivers, weight rooms, etc., to attract students. Textbook publishers consolidated then saw not reason to keep costs down. Since the government was supposed to do something, the costs got paid for by student loans guarenteed by the American tax payer, with no regard to what the students were actually studying.

You could throw in the "toxic masculinity" thing, and guess who are masculine? Welders, pipe fitters, plumbers, oil field workers, mechanics, electricians, construction workers, linemen, etc. The guys we actually really need. What do you think a soyboy did? Go to welding school or go to college for a liberal arts degree? By the way, "liberal arts" was coined in ancient times because liberal (free ) arts were what the free (i.e., upper class) did to pass the time. For a living people engaged in servile arts. I do not think it would have occurred to many that a person could make a living at liberal arts back then. Only truly exceptional people could hope to gain a patron to support their philosophical musings, astronomy, etc.

Anyway we need to go back to where we were about a hundred years ago. It worked just fine. Make high school mean something, promote correspondence courses for specific tasks, and leave college for the professions. How to do that, well, anyone who hires people, stop asking for college degrees.

Well said. Although you’re not addressing THE root cause that’s diluted our country’s education system, and it wasn’t the “hippies“ trying to dodge ‘Nam:

Ending Segregation.

That’s the real reason High School was so rigorous back in the day: it was all white and white ran. Now look at what we have. But those men back in the day knew the truth, and there’s a reason why our schools and military were segregated for as long as they were.

Until (((you know who))) forced them upon our once beloved institutions.
 
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Monty_Brogan

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Just a feeling extra racist this morning aren't you Monty?

Call me what you will, but I live in the real world. I live in a big city. Every single family I know pays the Catholic Church >$6,000 a year, K-12 to segregate their kids and keep them out of public schools.


They’re all “racist” too? They wouldn’t be as blunt as I am, but there’s a reason they don’t send their sons and daughters to to public schools.
 

DanielH

Pelican
Just a feeling extra racist this morning aren't you Monty?
1616067122399.png

When you bring people into a blue country with no in-group preference from the red and yellow countries on this map who have a strong in-group preference, what happens is you get affirmative action, welfare, an end to gifted programs, and racial quotas. We've seen all that happen. This doesn't help the people who are low-IQ either. It just makes them spiteful, greedy materialists like Americans typically are.
 

Hypno

Crow
Interesting thread.

My son will be entering college in the fall, probably as a business major, not STEM. If he goes to the state college, which is pretty good, he'll have a state scholarship and it will basically be free. Plus, they'll honor AP and other credits, and he can graduate in 3 years.

He'll find out soon if he got accepted to any Ivy League colleges. He's got a decent chance. But that means 4 years of school and probably an incremental $150-$200K contribution by me and him combined after financial aid (because of my tax bracket).

Not sure that Ivy League is worth it but on some level its hard to turn down.
 

FactusIRX

Kingfisher
Interesting thread.

My son will be entering college in the fall, probably as a business major, not STEM. If he goes to the state college, which is pretty good, he'll have a state scholarship and it will basically be free. Plus, they'll honor AP and other credits, and he can graduate in 3 years.

He'll find out soon if he got accepted to any Ivy League colleges. He's got a decent chance. But that means 4 years of school and probably an incremental $150-$200K contribution by me and him combined after financial aid (because of my tax bracket).

Not sure that Ivy League is worth it but on some level its hard to turn down.
What profession does your son want to do?
 

piceaabies

Pigeon
Im studying to become a lawyer, though after almost a year into the studies, im starting to notice the complete amoral attitude which is taken by the legal profession.
Most people are in it for money or pride. The amount of idealism is next to zero.
There are several classmates and teachers that expresss admiration for defense lawyers who could defend any serial killer or worse.

Imo the further the faculty of law strays from moral teachings the further society degenerates...
 
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