Complaints of Donald Trump thread

Max Roscoe

Kingfisher
I have monthly coffee with the same group of guys for the last 4 1/2 years. A couple of them only invest at the Angel level and do 6-10 deals a year. They constantly talk about how few worthy ideas / founders come across their desks.

Theres more capital available than ever especially since interest rates have been so low for a decade

Like I said. Pick up a copy of Fast Company magazine

Some people are willing to do the work and take the risk
I view this as one of the big problems with our society.
The prevalence of the investor class.
Now, I am fully taking advantage of it in my personal life. I save and invest absolutely as much as possible. I purchased a large investment property (that did not work) and a smaller one (worked great and paid off the mortgage).

And if this coronavirus and $5 trillion bailout of the elite class didn't happen, I would be able to say I was well on my way to being able to retire well before 65 with a million dollars in savings (that sounds huge but by the time you are old and have been working all your life it's really not--the standard advice is to withdraw 4% of your savings so we are talking about living on $40,000 a year--plenty for me but hardly a life of elitism).

But is this a good thing for society? Does allowing many people to live off of passive investments without needing to actually work, is that beneficial or detrimental to society? Is it a better system, than, say, the one In Europe where people work some sort of trade or field, but have plenty of free time for month long vacations with their families, all medical problems are cared for, they are free to spend time with children or just having a picnic and they are not overworked or holding down 3 jobs so they can actually enjoy their life?

I am rather wary of the benefit of a large investing class. My bigger issue, however, is that economics is not what bothers me about this society. It's everything else.

I have traveled to dozens of poorer nations. Some I could enjoy living in, others maybe not. But one thing they all have in common is happy people. Sure, some of them struggle, and some of them have real problems like public health issues or poverty. But they almost universally have stronger faith in God, stronger family ties, and the parents know they can count on their children to take care of them. I take care for my aging father, and am regularly told what an amazing job I am doing, or what an incredible son I am. And I am not doing anything special. I'm not bathing him, or cutting his hair, or wiping his butt. I'm driving him to the doctor and playing on an iPad while I wait. That, apparently, is rare in America. Because here apparently people abandon their parents, or just let governments or nursing homes handle them because it's inconvenient.

When I am old, all the nice dinners or fancy suits or whatever luxuries I had in my life will not matter. If I am left alone in a nursing home for Shaniqua to abuse me, while a poor father from another country is lovingly looked after by his poor but devoted children, who really had the better life?
 

fokm

Robin
Gold Member
You shouldn't guess what other people think or don't think. If I had about 50% more than I have now I would be set and happy as can be. But that is a long ways away and a lot of work, but most importantly this country is crashing so fast even I am surprised by it and I realize I may never get there due to cowardly men in leadership positions everywhere in this society.

If you are under 35 then your thinking is way off. You will find out as you get older what I mean when I say that. Only time will give you experience and only experience can understand my points in this thread.
I'm in my 40s.

Where did I guess what you thought? I merely speculated about your happiness. From what I've read in the thread, you work long hours for other people and it seems as you think there aren't many smarter options (otherwise why would you). You're concerned about your future after all the work you've done. That's the most speculation I've done, and I'm using your posts to come to that conclusion.

I agree with you about our leadership. 2020 has exposed both Trump and established politicians for what they are. And it has exposed most Americans as mindless sheep.

Still, at the end of the day, what happens in your house is more important than what happens in the white house.

I think it's important to follow politics and understand where things are today to speculate wisely on where things will be tomorrow and to be realistic about it. But to focus on things you cannot control will lead to needless misery and sadness.

Perhaps I'm older than you, and if you change your mindset to be more like mine, your life will improve. Only time will give you experience and only experience can understand my points in this thread.
 

Uprising

Woodpecker
Unlike in the Donald Trump thread, I will not tell you to leave. $1,000,000 isn't enough for a family, so if you have $1,000,000, you will have to slave away. The "biggest economy" belongs to the very few on the top, and no one here can deny that.

I guess we can talk about how Trump is likely letting rioters run wild and probably cheering it on because it gives his buddy Bezos more money with the destruction of small business and also because he thinks it will help him win reelection. That is a good complaint to start with.
The bolded statement is completely out of touch with reality. I actually agree with a lot of your complaints about Trump. It's just annoying that you repeat your same personal sob stories over and over again.

My response would be "I regret it all. I hate that I wasted my life. I have great regrets about it. But all in all, I don't feel I had another choice with how my brain is wired and I am FURIOUS that your generation didn't pass on as good of a country as you had. As for your grandkids, if they end up like me they will feel the same and will curse you as long as they live and that will be your legacy. Don't stick them with this hell."
Yes, we get it. Your life sucks. And has sucked for 20 years. And even though you're only (I'm assuming) in your 40's, and could live another 40 years, you have "wasted your life". So, I guess you have already determined that the next 40 years of your life will suck too.

Stop posting about yourself in this thread. This thread is not about you. It's about Trump. Stop posting about yourself. Nobody wants to hear it.

When you finally decide to stop being whiny and do something with your life, then feel free to start a thread dedicated to yourself in the appropriate sub-forum and please keep your personal diary contained to only that thread.

Until then, it would be nice to see this thread stay about Trump. And not about how bad It Is My Time's life sucks.

Thanks.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
I'm in my 40s.

Where did I guess what you thought? I merely speculated about your happiness. From what I've read in the thread, you work long hours for other people and it seems as you think there aren't many smarter options (otherwise why would you). You're concerned about your future after all the work you've done. That's the most speculation I've done, and I'm using your posts to come to that conclusion.

I agree with you about our leadership. 2020 has exposed both Trump and established politicians for what they are. And it has exposed most Americans as mindless sheep.

Still, at the end of the day, what happens in your house is more important than what happens in the white house.

I think it's important to follow politics and understand where things are today to speculate wisely on where things will be tomorrow and to be realistic about it. But to focus on things you cannot control will lead to needless misery and sadness.

Perhaps I'm older than you, and if you change your mindset to be more like mine, your life will improve. Only time will give you experience and only experience can understand my points in this thread.
You guessed I would be unhappy if I won the lottery. This is extremely inaccurate.

I'm in my 40's as well, and how you want to live will not make me happy and vice versa.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
The bolded statement is completely out of touch with reality. I actually agree with a lot of your complaints about Trump. It's just annoying that you repeat your same personal sob stories over and over again.



Yes, we get it. Your life sucks. And has sucked for 20 years. And even though you're only (I'm assuming) in your 40's, and could live another 40 years, you have "wasted your life". So, I guess you have already determined that the next 40 years of your life will suck too.

Stop posting about yourself in this thread. This thread is not about you. It's about Trump. Stop posting about yourself. Nobody wants to hear it.

When you finally decide to stop being whiny and do something with your life, then feel free to start a thread dedicated to yourself in the appropriate sub-forum and please keep your personal diary contained to only that thread.

Until then, it would be nice to see this thread stay about Trump. And not about how bad It Is My Time's life sucks.

Thanks.
Then research how much it costs to raise a kid. Because if you think $1,000,000 will raise three kids, even if you get laid off, and keep you safe from going under, you are very wrong. $2,000,000 would do it, but not $1,000,000.

The rest of your post not wroth responding to. All I can say is best of luck if you think $1,000,000 will afford a family.
 

Uprising

Woodpecker
Would any parents (I am not one), perhaps some who have met people in real life from the forum (I have not), like to comment on a man saying he has worked and saved money for two decades working 70 hours per week every week, and still doesn't feel he has enough money to start a family with, and that $1 million is not enough to start a family in 99% of the country, like to comment on the ridiculousness of this comment?

It Is My time if you've worked 70 hours for 2 decades straight while living like a college student and living with a roommates the whole time, then you should have saved at minimum, absolute minimum $20,000 per year. Assuming you didn't even invest this money, only paid rent and therefore didn't build equity in a home by paying a mortgage, and just put it into a savings bank account with it accruing zero, ZERO, interest per year, then $20,000 X 20 = $400,000.

You can buy brand new houses in most areas of the country outside the Northeast and parts of California for $200,000-$250,000. Nice 3 - 4 bedroom houses. In nice neighborhoods. And that's brand new.

So you should be able to buy a house outright. Now you don't have a mortgage to worry about. Buy two nice used cars for you and the misses, for about $25,000, and now you don't have a car payment. So $250,000 for the house. $25,000 for the two used cars. You have spent $275,000. You have $125,000 left over for savings and to invest when you start having kids.

Don't keep up with Jones' and don't buy your kids gadgets. If they want them, they can go mow yards during the summer or get an easy going part time job when they turn 16 like I and many others did. If you get laid off be ready for delicious rice and soup meals on the cheap for a couple months, maybe a couple years. You might have to send your kids to public schools. Just have talks with them. Or, make sacrifices and downgrade your lifestyle and move to more rural areas, but still within commuting distance of a city, if you want some more conservative schools. The US is big. HUGE. You have no excuse. You might need to find a new line of work. That's ok. The world always needs plumbers, truck drivers, HVAC, or hell if you're good with computers you might be the only computer repair man in whatever rural area that you choose to live in. You can make it work.

What am I missing here?

I hope some parents will chime in.
 
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Max Roscoe

Kingfisher
So you should be able to buy a house outright. Now you don't have a mortgage to worry about. Buy two nice used cars for you and the misses, for about $25,000, and now you don't have a car payment. So $250,000 for the house. $25,000 for the two used cars. You have spent $275,000. You have $125,000 left over for savings and to invest when you start having kids.
Not a parent, but I will concur.
I posted below where you can buy a beautiful hundred year old home in the south on over an acre of land for $250,000.
Of course, you don't need a nice, 100 year old Victorian home. You can settle for something built in the 1950s for around $150,000 and still have enough land to grow a garden to feed you much of the year. Yes, this is a remote area and my post was made specifically in light of those who can work remotely, as it is far from most employment centers.


Things are very bad for the middle class, or what's left of it, and I hear horror stories from people all the time. But @It_is_my_time it sounds like you are a low time preference, frugal, intelligent, and hard working guy. Maybe you're not in the right field but I think if you have your expenses in check, and do as posted above: Buy a house and have zero debt (maybe not in that order, but that is the goal). Then you should be able to raise a family, and you don't need to be a millionaire. A very, very, very small amount of people in the country will ever be millionaires, and many of them have plenty of kids.

Yes, I want my kids to have nice summer camp experiences, and to tour the country with them, and provide them nice opportunities. But kids don't have to break the bank. Of course, you need a reasonable wife who isn't worried about keeping up with the Joneses, and having the latest model car in the driveway. But that kind of woman would be a nightmare even if one is rich (and would be just the type to divorce rape you, to boot). I don't mean to gloss this part over, because the nice, sweet, fun female that used to be in abundance in our country is exactly what's holding me back from starting a family, but they still exist, even if you have to go to the rural areas or search abroad.

There is a hard-up guy who stops by and asks to clean my gutters every couple of months. He was so desperate for money yesterday, he offered to do the work for $25. $25. I wouldn't make a house call for less than $60. But he needed the money. He has been sleeping on the street, and told me he just got out of the county jail. He also told me he has 3 kids. Here I am, financially successful, with all my teeth intact, in a nice home, and unable to make a family, and this guy who is sleeping under the interstate has 3. I'm not jealous, just pointing out, it's not that hard to make babies.

I'm sure the kids are in pretty lousy shape, but the point is people have kids every day, and the money just sort of figures itself out. I don't mean to downplay the cost of kids, as I understand arguing over kids and money is tied neck and neck with sex for the #1 cause of fights and divorce. But I'm just saying that thousands of kids are born every day, they grow up, love their parents and die. I am saying all this because I am too guilty of mistakes of the smart couple in the Idiocracy opening scene: Waiting for the right moment to marry the ideal girl and raise kids when I have plenty of money and time to give them. But life doesn't wait for us. Find a decent girl, make a baby, and the two of you figuring out the rest is really part of the fun.

I agree with you 100% that the path to all that is very difficult, and it didn't used to be. In a real civilization, everyone from the garbage collector to the tax man can find a fulfilling life with a happy family and societal happiness is a shared goal. No, we don't live in a real civilization. But if you are smart enough to say the things I hear you say on a regular basis, and you are frugal with money like you say, a family is definitely in reach even if I'm not there myself and I'm just speaking from a place of hopeful ignorance.

It probably even takes a good bit of luck, namely with getting into the right career and meeting a good woman. But the logistics of it are not impossible and you do not need to be a millionaire to make it happen. Obviously I am very interested in talking about this but we should probably get back on topic or move this post.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
I think you guys are misunderstanding what I am saying. Let me try again.

Job security is gone in the USA. Unions have been completely destroyed. Politicians work overtime to replace you with foreign labor to drive down prices for their billionaire masters. Jobs are disappearing due to technology increases. More and more companies don't hire people over a certain age or lay them off due to healthcare costs. Etc., etc.

So I am talking about the cost to raise a family. Not the amount of money you need in the bank before having a family. These are two different things. The problem is, you are more and more needing a larger % of this amount in the bank before having kids due to the pressure of keeping a job in the USA.

If you have a job that you feel you cannot lose for the next 30/40 years, then you are in a good place. But each year fewer and fewer can save that.

But lets just go with the expenses you would accrue over those decades of raising a family.

Lets go with your $150,000 house. That seems very low in this day and age, but I know for right now in rural areas you can find this.

Add on taxes and insurance of $2,000 a year x 30 years (3 kids, 25 years to raise) = $60,000
Add on bills, food, car payments (not even new cars) of say $5,000 a year x 30 years = $150,000
Add on health insurance, which is out of control for a family $12,000 a year for 30 years = $360,000
Add on college for 3 kids (current prices, if they don't get rare scholarships) = $150,000
Add on saving for your retirement because social security will not be enough in 30 years = $5,000 x 30 = $150,000

Right now, if you do it very cheap and live out in the rural area you are looking at...

$150,000
$60,000
$150,000
$360,000
$150,000
$150,000

And you are already at $1,000,000. This doesn't include emergencies. Fun vacations. Expensive sporting leagues. Or maybe saving more so you can pass on more wealth down to your kids in an inheritance. And this is going by today's costs. The way the economy is crashing and with Trump handing $5 Trillion over to Black Rock Financial and their friends, these costs are guaranteed to increase sharply over the next 25/30 years.

This is the reality of the situation. Sure you plan to work over the next 25 to 30 years to pay for all this, but do you really thing your job is that secure?
 

EndlessGravity

Woodpecker
The truth is somewhere in between what you two are talking about @It_is_my_time and @Uprising.

All the middle class people I know, some of which describe themselves as working poor, make between $80,000 and $150,000. Most have one or two children. Some of have zero. This is in metros with lower costs of living. These are solid salaries in these areas.

They all live far beyond their means. Vacations, gadgets, new cars, boats, eating out most of the week, drinking at bars, interest payments.

I no longer have sympathy for anyone because 99% of people, including the middle class and small business owners, are now welfare queens with their hands out for bailouts. None of them try to live within their means.

Can you make it with $1,000,000? I've had a moderate amount of success by society's standards. We've raised a family in a great part of town off $30k a year for over a decade, because we save and invest everything else. You'd never guess that's what we live off. We make smart decisions and take advantage of luck and opportunities. We have zero debt.

There's never a good financial time to have kids but they're not as expensive as people suggest.
 
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fokm

Robin
Gold Member
You guessed I would be unhappy if I won the lottery. This is extremely inaccurate.

I'm in my 40's as well, and how you want to live will not make me happy and vice versa.
What I said is that money is a magnifier. If you're an overall unhappy person before winning a lot of money, you tend to be much more unhappy after. If you're a giving person, you tend to be a much more giving person. I then followed up the magnifier comment speculating about you personally and that was poorly written.

Lets go with your $150,000 house. That seems very low in this day and age, but I know for right now in rural areas you can find this.

Add on taxes and insurance of $2,000 a year x 30 years (3 kids, 25 years to raise) = $60,000
Add on bills, food, car payments (not even new cars) of say $5,000 a year x 30 years = $150,000
Add on health insurance, which is out of control for a family $12,000 a year for 30 years = $360,000
Add on college for 3 kids (current prices, if they don't get rare scholarships) = $150,000
Add on saving for your retirement because social security will not be enough in 30 years = $5,000 x 30 = $150,000

Right now, if you do it very cheap and live out in the rural area you are looking at...

$150,000
$60,000
$150,000
$360,000
$150,000
$150,000

And you are already at $1,000,000.
As a guy in his 40s who has a family, yes, kids can be expensive. But some of your math is missing or just has bad assumptions.

The insurance thing -- your first line is "taxes and insurance" but apparently not health insurance? Having kids and owning a home also reduces your tax burden in many cases. Also, while the cost of health insurance is high, many insurance plans have a family plan that once it hits 3 people, does not go up in price.

Wouldn't you need a car payment regardless of whether you have a family in the US? Why is that included here?

College for 3 kids? Who says you need to pay for it. College is a scam anyway. Also, there are scholarships out there that are not rare to get. I personally got 2 as a high schooler who had no idea what he was doing, and one of those two essentially paid for 80% of my college. I didn't do anything particularly special to get it either. But anyway, I just saved you $150k.

Saving for your retirement--you ought to be investing it, not strictly saving it. If you get an index fund that has averaged 12% over 30 years, and you contribute $5k per year, after 30 years you've got over $1 million. And even if the next 30 years don't average 12%, they average 6%, you're still nearly at $500k. And if you invest that $150k you were saving for your kids college, you may even hit $2 million in 30 years.


And also, your house could go up in value 1.5-3x in 30 years. And even if it doesn't, after 30 years, you could sell it for what you paid, you just lived rent-free for 30 years!

The final portion of your argument is that you don't pay all of that at once, and your spouse may bring in sources of income.

Again, I think it's a mindset thing. If the costs of raising kids were so high, in a land where birth control is cheap and available, only the wealthy would be doing it. That's not the case.

In all of your prose, you end with blaming Trump for giving money to his buddies. I think it's safe to say that politicians have been doing that for at least the last 100 years. Yet, somehow, kids have managed to be born into families the entire time.

Finally, you said I wouldn't be happy living as you. Damn straight. I've worked plenty of 70 hour + weeks (before I had a family) and it was for my own company. I benefited directly. I would not be happy being a wage slave and overworking myself as you have.

I do think, however, you would be happy in the financial and family situation I'm in, overall. I'm not perfect and boy do I wish I would have started investing earlier (I'd have FU money by now),. But I've got an emergency fund, a great network, and a plan B if the US does indeed go down the toilet.

I'm really writing this post directly to you. Your life can improve if you really evaluate things and make some changes, regardless of whether Trump or Biden win.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
Again, I think it's a mindset thing. If the costs of raising kids were so high, in a land where birth control is cheap and available, only the wealthy would be doing it. That's not the case.

In all of your prose, you end with blaming Trump for giving money to his buddies. I think it's safe to say that politicians have been doing that for at least the last 100 years. Yet, somehow, kids have managed to be born into families the entire time.

Finally, you said I wouldn't be happy living as you. Damn straight. I've worked plenty of 70 hour + weeks (before I had a family) and it was for my own company. I benefited directly. I would not be happy being a wage slave and overworking myself as you have.

I do think, however, you would be happy in the financial and family situation I'm in, overall. I'm not perfect and boy do I wish I would have started investing earlier (I'd have FU money by now),. But I've got an emergency fund, a great network, and a plan B if the US does indeed go down the toilet.

I'm really writing this post directly to you. Your life can improve if you really evaluate things and make some changes, regardless of whether Trump or Biden win.
Most of this is a back and forth about the cost of having a family. In my experience, my figures are accurate for a rural/flyover state COL. To address the rest of your points...

Most the kids are either being born into upper middle class, often immigrants with higher paid jobs, or r/K select theory where the r selects don't care if their kids grow up in violent poverty stricken neighborhoods. This is a major reason why you are seeing the massive demographic change across the western world, obviously along with immigration.

Trump's selling out of the middle class was not only far larger than any politician in history of the USA, it came at the worst possibly time. I really disliked Obama and Bush, but Trump is on another level as far as incompetent and evil. And the USA will not recover from this within the current framework.

I appreciate your time and concern and I highly respect what you have to say. Thank you!
 

EndlessGravity

Woodpecker
Trump's selling out of the middle class was not only far larger than any politician in history of the USA, it came at the worst possibly time. I really disliked Obama and Bush, but Trump is on another level as far as incompetent and evil. And the USA will not recover from this within the current framework.
I do agree with @It_is_my_time regarding Trump's handouts and their effect on being able to make it. We're making financial decisions today which I would have liked to have put off until 2021 or 2022. He's not solely to blame but he's just another elite and those of us who have saved and fought for financial security will struggle to maintain and hold it over the next 5 to 10 years.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
When young people have no vested interest in civilization they will not hold it up and support it. This isn't all Trump's fault, but him throwing away the opportunity from God to close the borders and give people UBI due to coronavirus was the ultimate political pissing down your own leg.

 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
Might be some smoke to this fire. It honestly wouldn't surprise me. He has a big mouth he can't control and thinks money is the only thing that matters in life.

 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
I have traveled to dozens of poorer nations. Some I could enjoy living in, others maybe not. But one thing they all have in common is happy people. Sure, some of them struggle, and some of them have real problems like public health issues or poverty. But they almost universally have stronger faith in God, stronger family ties, and the parents know they can count on their children to take care of them.
Fun off-topic fact: people often blindly trust the globalist report on the so-called "Happiness Index", not knowing that it awards bonus points for stuff like "LGBT rights", "racial equality" and other nonsense categories. It's the primary reason why Scandinavian countries always score the highest, even though, as Max Roscoe has aptly noted, it has little to do with the actual mood or happiness of people in that country.
 
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