Cops getting killed--Careful what you wish for

[Peregrine]

I'm with iknowexactly. I've never been jerked around by a cop, other than the patronizing "didn't you see the stop sign?" (yes I did, what I didn't see was you). I'm guessing some members have had some shitty experiences though. Perhaps Tucker Max's writeup on how to deal with cops might help. Or Chris Rock's video on how not to get your ass kicked by the cops.

Obviously bad cops exist. But so do bad doctors, bad teachers, and bad [insert profession here]. Most cops (in the US/Canada) really do want to help citizens and keep their towns and cities safe.

 

[Screwston]

You guys forgot the most obvious one.

I challenge you with this one :angel:

 

[A War You Cannot Win]

*Talks shit on the police*

*Calls 9/11 in the event of an emergency*

 

[Blackhawk]

There is a whole movement in America that criminals are always innocent, and that no crime should ever be punished. The police basically ignore these neighborhoods, and crime skyrockets. But that's what those communities have asked for. This is a major reason why crime and violence are higher in America: When a neighborhood says, "Fuck da police, we don't want them here." as long as their vices stay within that neighborhood, we allow it.

Now if you're a dumbass and start counterfeiting, running a drug lab, or otherwise get too big and cross the unwritten line, there will be a surgical operation to shut you down. But as long as you stay small scale and only attack other wild boys like yourself, it's all lawlessness and might makes right.

Likewise there's a lot of tension over where the boundaries for where the wild is allowed and where it stops. You can literally engage in a driving car street shoot out in East Oakland and not get prosecuted. Drive too far and cross the city line into San Leandro though, and you're doing 20 years in jail. And since the bullets don't stop at the city border line, they really prosecute hard there when Oakland ducks in. Got their own court, their own judges, and their own juries that enforce hard too against outsiders coming into their community.

 

[porscheguy]

The majority of cops who die "in the line of duty" are killed in car accidents because the stupid fucks think they're above the law and don't need to wear seat belts.

Yes, most police LOD deaths are traffic related incidents. That doesn't necessarily mean they were driving at the time. A lot of cops are killed when they're hit by another car as they talk to a driver they pulled over. I don't see how that makes them "stupid fucks".

Maybe it's different up in the 51st state, but in the other 50 states, they're not getting killed while sitting in cars or standing on the side of the road. They're getting killed because they don't wear seatbelts while they drive.

 

[Sherman]

I think getting along with the police is within the spirit of this forum. Shooting it out with the cops doesn't lead to a cool lifestyle. All my experiences here with the Mexican police have been positive. Usually when cops go after someone they have good reason.

 

[Peregrine]

Maybe it's different up in the 51st state, but in the other 50 states, they're not getting killed while sitting in cars or standing on the side of the road. They're getting killed because they don't wear seatbelts while they drive.

Maybe that is the case on occasion both in Canada and the US (I've lived in both). However, cops might not want to wear a seat belt for reasons other than thinking they're above the law. If you're chasing a guy who's running for a boatload of felonies, do you want to have a seat belt on when he finally stops? What if he gets out and starts pumping rounds into your cruiser? Same thing goes for a routine traffic stop, because you never know.

Here's an NPR article on the topic. Notice that there are a lot of ways to die in a traffic related incident unrelated to seat belt usage.

 

[Giovonny]

Why did these cops get killed?

That is the question.

Did they kill an innocent person? Did they lock up an innocent person?

Did they rape or torture someone?

Did they rob someone?

If they did, I have no problem with these murders.

If they didn't, then they are just innocent people who didn't deserve to die.

I need to know both sides of the story before I can form an opinion.

 

[Vitriol]

Police in the U.S. do shit ranging from knocking an innocent person around and throwing him in jail for the night, all the way up to full blown murder on the job and get a slap on the wrist in return (at most).

Google the blue wall of silence if you think I'm joking or exaggerating. I have no sympathy for them, they're preying on us instead of protecting us.

 

[A War You Cannot Win]

You're going to hear negative stories concerning LEOs far more often than stories of thousands of regular people doing their job honorably and going home at the end of their shift.

Yes, LEOs are humans, and humans are fallible and corruptible. That's no secret. Still the existence of law enforcement agencies keep the majority of the people safe for the most part, which is about as good as you're going to get in a cold, uncaring universe. Humans don't obey morals and laws out of the goodness of their hearts. The majority stay in line because they fear punishment. Whether it be legal rammifications or religious judgement.

For all people critical of the police, can you honestly say you'd be safer without any police presence? No one to enforce the laws and regulations of society?

 

[Lemmo]

I've never had a problem with the police. Aside from a few high profile cases, they seem to do a good job of distinguishing between mainstream citizens and fringe dwellers. As long as they limit their excesses to isolated cases when they're dealing with the fringe (e.g., Rodney King), I won't judge them that harshly.

Unless these murders were in self-defense, I'm not really understanding the argument some are making in favor of the murder of public officials.

My main complaint is against those officials and quasi-officials who direct their energy at screwing around with regular people just going about their day - TSA, traffic cops, security guards, etc.

 

[Peregrine]

Yup, I'm sure he beat up innocent people and got away with full blown murder during his four years working in San Diego.

You're going to hear negative stories concerning LEOs far more often than stories of thousands of regular people doing their job honorably and going home at the end of their shift.

Yes, LEOs are humans, and humans are fallible and corruptible. That's no secret. Still the existence of law enforcement agencies keep the majority of the people safe for the most part, which is about as good as you're going to get in a cold, uncaring universe. Humans don't obey morals and laws out of the goodness of their hearts. The majority stay in line because they fear punishment. Whether it be legal rammifications or religious judgement.

For all people critical of the police, can you honestly say you'd be safer without any police presence? No one to enforce the laws and regulations of society?

Exactly.

 

[Vitriol]

Yup, I'm sure he beat up innocent people and got away with full blown murder during his four years working in San Diego.

Have you ever actually worked with police and gotten their internal affairs records? Or do you just have some youtube clips?

 

[Peregrine]

Have you ever actually worked with police and gotten their internal affairs records? Or do you just have some youtube clips?

I already said that there's obviously going to be bad cops. I remember being rather pissed when I read about four Houston cops defrauding the city for overtime. Cops like that should go to jail. And Dorner's manifesto shed some light on what's happening at the LAPD. Wouldn't surprise me if his accusations were all spot on.

But just because there are some bad apples doesn't mean all cops are bad, which is what you were implying. Most cops are honest, hard working types who risk their lives to keep citizens safe.

---

Edit: On the other hand, you're certainly welcome to your perspective. We may just have to agree to disagree. A person's views on the police depend on what sort of experiences that person (or their friend/relative) has had with police officers.

 

[MikeCF]

Good cops cover up for the bad cops.

Does that mean the good cops are actually good cops, or are they bad, too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Code_of_Silence

 

[A War You Cannot Win]

A lot of people wouldn't understand why good cops would cover up for bad cops unless they have served themselves in some way. The bad cops still have your back, whereas if you were to go by this thread, the public does not have your back and is seeking to scruntize your every move.

 

[POHammer]

Whatever you think about cops...they don't deserve to be gunned down. I don't think anyone should be killed for their bad actions. Saying some cop "got what was coming to him" is wrong. Corrupt cops should be sent to prison and hard labor, but not a bullet to the head.

 

[MikeCF]

Whatever you think about cops...they don't deserve to be gunned down. I don't think anyone should be killed for their bad actions. Saying some cop "got what was coming to him" is wrong. Corrupt cops should be sent to prison and hard labor, but not a bullet to the head.

Neither do these fine Americans:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/raid-of-the-day-rusty-win_n_2933875.html

You know that police misconduct is so out of control that you can find a VIDEO every day showing new stuff - dogs being shot, old women being tazered, cops planting drugs?

When police start policing themselves, I'll start giving a fuck when others take the law into their own hands.

Until then...While I don't encourage police violence, it's not something that makes me care.

Police can end this. Get rid of the scum bags and criminals, stop harassing innocent people, stop shooting harmless dogs in front of their owners, and then police will be respected again.

 

[MikeCF]

A lot of people wouldn't understand why good cops would cover up for bad cops unless they have served themselves in some way. The bad cops still have your back, whereas if you were to go by this thread, the public does not have your back and is seeking to scruntize your every move.

FALSE.

Want to prove this? It's shown every day, thousands of times.

Go to court. You and a cop can testify before a jury.

Make it, "He said, he said," where you and the cop have different testimony about what happened. But there is no physical proof proving either of you right or wrong.

99/100 times, whose word will the jury take?

Yours or the cops?

Maybe that number is changing and people trust cops less.

Given that police harass, shoot, beat, and murder innocent people every day...Why shouldn't we scrutinize them?

 

[A War You Cannot Win]

Cops murder people every day? I think you're being dramatic with that claim. Do you have any statistics?