Coronavirus Product & Services Shortage Thread

Emancipator

Hummingbird
Gold Member
In the US and Canada there are 2 separate food supply chains, commercial (restaurants) and residential (grocery stores). Usually 60/40 for food supply... 60% of our food is eaten outside our homes. That split just went to 0/100. So commercial suppliers just lost all business and can’t retool to package for residential. And residential is now burning through stocked warehouse supplies at double planned rates. We don’t want to see what happens if warehouses run out.

Message from a US Dairy Farmer explaining the issue....

Are we dumping milk because of greed or low demand, no. It’s the supply chain, there are only so many jug fillers, all were running 24/7 before this cluster you-know-what.

Now demand for jug milk has almost doubled. However, restaurant demand is almost gone; NO ONE is eating out.

Restaurant milk is distributed in 2.5 gal bags or pint chugs; further, almost 75 percent of milk is processed into hard products in this country, cheese and butter. Mozzarella is almost a third of total cheese production; how’s pizza sales going right now??

A bit of history – Years ago (40+) every town had a bottler, they ran one shift a day, could ramp up production easily. Now with all the corporate takeovers (wall street over main street) we are left with regional “high efficiency” milk plants that ran jug lines 24/7 before this mess, no excess capacity.

Jug machines cost millions and are MADE IN CHINA. Only so many jugs can be blown at a jug plant. We farmers don’t make the jugs, damn hard to ramp up production.

I’m a dairy farmer, believe me NO dairyman likes dumping milk; and so far there is NO guarantee they will get paid. Milk must be processed within 48 hours of production and 24 hours of receipt in the plant or it goes bad. Same with making it into cheese and butter, and neither stores well for long.

The same supply line problems exists where restaurants are supplied with bulk 1 pound blocks of butter or single serv packs or pats; and cheese is sold in 10 to 20 pound bags (think shredded Mozzarella for pizza). Furthermore, it is not legal for this end of the supply chain to sell direct to consumers in most states.

Take cheddar cheese for instance; it goes from mild to sharp to crap in storage. Butter, frozen, only stores for so long and then must be slowly thawed and processed into other uses as it gets “strong”. At Organic Valley we cook it down into butter oil or ghee for cooking.

We are headed for the same problem with canned veggies. The vast majority of produce comes off and is processed in season; canned or frozen. The supply is already in cans for the season; restaurants use gallon cans or bulk bags of frozen produce.

At some point we will run out of consumer sized cans in stock because home size sales are up (40%+) and restaurant sales are almost nonexistent. Fresh produce out of U.S. season comes from Mexico (different climate). I’m talking sweet corn, green beans, peas, tomatoes, all veggies are seasonal in the USA. Fresh, out-of-season, row crops are imported. (There are exceptions, like hydroponic grown, but small amount of total).

Someone mentioned “time to raid all those bins of corn”. Those bins on the farm contain yellow corn, cattle feed and totally unfit for human consumption, now or at harvest.

Eggs? Same problem. Bakeries and restaurants of any size use Pullman egg cases, 30 dozen at a pop, 30 eggs to a flat, 12 flats to a case. There are only so many 1 dozen egg cartons available and only so many packing machines.

Industrial bakeries and processors of packaged food buy bulk liquid eggs, no carton at all. Also in many states it is illegal to sell this supply-chain directly to consumers.

On your standard buffet of any size, do you really think they boil eggs and peel them? They come in a bag, boiled and diced; those nice uniform slices of boiled egg you see on your salad, a lot of them come in tubes boiled and extruded at the same time, just unwrap and slice. Your scrambled eggs come in a homogenized bag on most buffets.

Another example of Main Street being gutted and “improved by wall street” NO local egg processors available or many small egg producers either, all corporate and huge, contracted to sell to the corporate masters.

This is a warning the same problems exist in all supply chains.

The supply chain is farked.

David Osterloh, 61-year-old dairy farmer
 

Nolecbo

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Does anyone know of a good Body Armor manufacturer without a long wait? Safe Life and AR 500 both have a month long wait. Safariland redirects you to a local retailer who says he will only see to LEO.

NYC has plenty of consumer goods but L&O is breaking down. A high percent of the NYPD is out sick and prisoners were released into the city parks. My Citizen app goes off all night.

I was thinking of buying secondhand armor off of eBay, at least it will arrive promptly. NYC has very few illegal guns (and no rifles), I would want something for stab/slash protection (which seems to be what comes over Citizen all the time). Is there a downside to secondhand?
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
Emancipator said:
In the US and Canada there are 2 separate food supply chains, commercial (restaurants) and residential (grocery stores). Usually 60/40 for food supply... 60% of our food is eaten outside our homes. That split just went to 0/100. So commercial suppliers just lost all business and can’t retool to package for residential. And residential is now burning through stocked warehouse supplies at double planned rates. We don’t want to see what happens if warehouses run out.

Message from a US Dairy Farmer explaining the issue....

Are we dumping milk because of greed or low demand, no. It’s the supply chain, there are only so many jug fillers, all were running 24/7 before this cluster you-know-what.

Now demand for jug milk has almost doubled. However, restaurant demand is almost gone; NO ONE is eating out.

Restaurant milk is distributed in 2.5 gal bags or pint chugs; further, almost 75 percent of milk is processed into hard products in this country, cheese and butter. Mozzarella is almost a third of total cheese production; how’s pizza sales going right now??

A bit of history – Years ago (40+) every town had a bottler, they ran one shift a day, could ramp up production easily. Now with all the corporate takeovers (wall street over main street) we are left with regional “high efficiency” milk plants that ran jug lines 24/7 before this mess, no excess capacity.

Jug machines cost millions and are MADE IN CHINA. Only so many jugs can be blown at a jug plant. We farmers don’t make the jugs, damn hard to ramp up production.

I’m a dairy farmer, believe me NO dairyman likes dumping milk; and so far there is NO guarantee they will get paid. Milk must be processed within 48 hours of production and 24 hours of receipt in the plant or it goes bad. Same with making it into cheese and butter, and neither stores well for long.

The same supply line problems exists where restaurants are supplied with bulk 1 pound blocks of butter or single serv packs or pats; and cheese is sold in 10 to 20 pound bags (think shredded Mozzarella for pizza). Furthermore, it is not legal for this end of the supply chain to sell direct to consumers in most states.

Take cheddar cheese for instance; it goes from mild to sharp to crap in storage. Butter, frozen, only stores for so long and then must be slowly thawed and processed into other uses as it gets “strong”. At Organic Valley we cook it down into butter oil or ghee for cooking.

We are headed for the same problem with canned veggies. The vast majority of produce comes off and is processed in season; canned or frozen. The supply is already in cans for the season; restaurants use gallon cans or bulk bags of frozen produce.

At some point we will run out of consumer sized cans in stock because home size sales are up (40%+) and restaurant sales are almost nonexistent. Fresh produce out of U.S. season comes from Mexico (different climate). I’m talking sweet corn, green beans, peas, tomatoes, all veggies are seasonal in the USA. Fresh, out-of-season, row crops are imported. (There are exceptions, like hydroponic grown, but small amount of total).

Someone mentioned “time to raid all those bins of corn”. Those bins on the farm contain yellow corn, cattle feed and totally unfit for human consumption, now or at harvest.

Eggs? Same problem. Bakeries and restaurants of any size use Pullman egg cases, 30 dozen at a pop, 30 eggs to a flat, 12 flats to a case. There are only so many 1 dozen egg cartons available and only so many packing machines.

Industrial bakeries and processors of packaged food buy bulk liquid eggs, no carton at all. Also in many states it is illegal to sell this supply-chain directly to consumers.

On your standard buffet of any size, do you really think they boil eggs and peel them? They come in a bag, boiled and diced; those nice uniform slices of boiled egg you see on your salad, a lot of them come in tubes boiled and extruded at the same time, just unwrap and slice. Your scrambled eggs come in a homogenized bag on most buffets.

Another example of Main Street being gutted and “improved by wall street” NO local egg processors available or many small egg producers either, all corporate and huge, contracted to sell to the corporate masters.

This is a warning the same problems exist in all supply chains.

The supply chain is farked.

David Osterloh, 61-year-old dairy farmer
:potd:
 

jordypip23

Pelican
Gold Member
Emancipator said:
In the US and Canada there are 2 separate food supply chains, commercial (restaurants) and residential (grocery stores). Usually 60/40 for food supply... 60% of our food is eaten outside our homes. That split just went to 0/100. So commercial suppliers just lost all business and can’t retool to package for residential. And residential is now burning through stocked warehouse supplies at double planned rates. We don’t want to see what happens if warehouses run out.

Message from a US Dairy Farmer explaining the issue....

Are we dumping milk because of greed or low demand, no. It’s the supply chain, there are only so many jug fillers, all were running 24/7 before this cluster you-know-what.

Now demand for jug milk has almost doubled. However, restaurant demand is almost gone; NO ONE is eating out.

Restaurant milk is distributed in 2.5 gal bags or pint chugs; further, almost 75 percent of milk is processed into hard products in this country, cheese and butter. Mozzarella is almost a third of total cheese production; how’s pizza sales going right now??

A bit of history – Years ago (40+) every town had a bottler, they ran one shift a day, could ramp up production easily. Now with all the corporate takeovers (wall street over main street) we are left with regional “high efficiency” milk plants that ran jug lines 24/7 before this mess, no excess capacity.

Jug machines cost millions and are MADE IN CHINA. Only so many jugs can be blown at a jug plant. We farmers don’t make the jugs, damn hard to ramp up production.

I’m a dairy farmer, believe me NO dairyman likes dumping milk; and so far there is NO guarantee they will get paid. Milk must be processed within 48 hours of production and 24 hours of receipt in the plant or it goes bad. Same with making it into cheese and butter, and neither stores well for long.

The same supply line problems exists where restaurants are supplied with bulk 1 pound blocks of butter or single serv packs or pats; and cheese is sold in 10 to 20 pound bags (think shredded Mozzarella for pizza). Furthermore, it is not legal for this end of the supply chain to sell direct to consumers in most states.

Take cheddar cheese for instance; it goes from mild to sharp to crap in storage. Butter, frozen, only stores for so long and then must be slowly thawed and processed into other uses as it gets “strong”. At Organic Valley we cook it down into butter oil or ghee for cooking.

We are headed for the same problem with canned veggies. The vast majority of produce comes off and is processed in season; canned or frozen. The supply is already in cans for the season; restaurants use gallon cans or bulk bags of frozen produce.

At some point we will run out of consumer sized cans in stock because home size sales are up (40%+) and restaurant sales are almost nonexistent. Fresh produce out of U.S. season comes from Mexico (different climate). I’m talking sweet corn, green beans, peas, tomatoes, all veggies are seasonal in the USA. Fresh, out-of-season, row crops are imported. (There are exceptions, like hydroponic grown, but small amount of total).

Someone mentioned “time to raid all those bins of corn”. Those bins on the farm contain yellow corn, cattle feed and totally unfit for human consumption, now or at harvest.

Eggs? Same problem. Bakeries and restaurants of any size use Pullman egg cases, 30 dozen at a pop, 30 eggs to a flat, 12 flats to a case. There are only so many 1 dozen egg cartons available and only so many packing machines.

Industrial bakeries and processors of packaged food buy bulk liquid eggs, no carton at all. Also in many states it is illegal to sell this supply-chain directly to consumers.

On your standard buffet of any size, do you really think they boil eggs and peel them? They come in a bag, boiled and diced; those nice uniform slices of boiled egg you see on your salad, a lot of them come in tubes boiled and extruded at the same time, just unwrap and slice. Your scrambled eggs come in a homogenized bag on most buffets.

Another example of Main Street being gutted and “improved by wall street” NO local egg processors available or many small egg producers either, all corporate and huge, contracted to sell to the corporate masters.

This is a warning the same problems exist in all supply chains.

The supply chain is farked.

David Osterloh, 61-year-old dairy farmer
So really we've gotten screwed by over by China, but also by Wall Street (all in the name of efficiency & squeezing out more profits to the shareholders, which inevitably means the large shareholders at the top). What a fishy business model.
 
jordypip23 said:
Emancipator said:
In the US and Canada there are 2 separate food supply chains, commercial (restaurants) and residential (grocery stores). Usually 60/40 for food supply... 60% of our food is eaten outside our homes. That split just went to 0/100. So commercial suppliers just lost all business and can’t retool to package for residential. And residential is now burning through stocked warehouse supplies at double planned rates. We don’t want to see what happens if warehouses run out.

Message from a US Dairy Farmer explaining the issue....

Are we dumping milk because of greed or low demand, no. It’s the supply chain, there are only so many jug fillers, all were running 24/7 before this cluster you-know-what.

Now demand for jug milk has almost doubled. However, restaurant demand is almost gone; NO ONE is eating out.

Restaurant milk is distributed in 2.5 gal bags or pint chugs; further, almost 75 percent of milk is processed into hard products in this country, cheese and butter. Mozzarella is almost a third of total cheese production; how’s pizza sales going right now??

A bit of history – Years ago (40+) every town had a bottler, they ran one shift a day, could ramp up production easily. Now with all the corporate takeovers (wall street over main street) we are left with regional “high efficiency” milk plants that ran jug lines 24/7 before this mess, no excess capacity.

Jug machines cost millions and are MADE IN CHINA. Only so many jugs can be blown at a jug plant. We farmers don’t make the jugs, damn hard to ramp up production.

I’m a dairy farmer, believe me NO dairyman likes dumping milk; and so far there is NO guarantee they will get paid. Milk must be processed within 48 hours of production and 24 hours of receipt in the plant or it goes bad. Same with making it into cheese and butter, and neither stores well for long.

The same supply line problems exists where restaurants are supplied with bulk 1 pound blocks of butter or single serv packs or pats; and cheese is sold in 10 to 20 pound bags (think shredded Mozzarella for pizza). Furthermore, it is not legal for this end of the supply chain to sell direct to consumers in most states.

Take cheddar cheese for instance; it goes from mild to sharp to crap in storage. Butter, frozen, only stores for so long and then must be slowly thawed and processed into other uses as it gets “strong”. At Organic Valley we cook it down into butter oil or ghee for cooking.

We are headed for the same problem with canned veggies. The vast majority of produce comes off and is processed in season; canned or frozen. The supply is already in cans for the season; restaurants use gallon cans or bulk bags of frozen produce.

At some point we will run out of consumer sized cans in stock because home size sales are up (40%+) and restaurant sales are almost nonexistent. Fresh produce out of U.S. season comes from Mexico (different climate). I’m talking sweet corn, green beans, peas, tomatoes, all veggies are seasonal in the USA. Fresh, out-of-season, row crops are imported. (There are exceptions, like hydroponic grown, but small amount of total).

Someone mentioned “time to raid all those bins of corn”. Those bins on the farm contain yellow corn, cattle feed and totally unfit for human consumption, now or at harvest.

Eggs? Same problem. Bakeries and restaurants of any size use Pullman egg cases, 30 dozen at a pop, 30 eggs to a flat, 12 flats to a case. There are only so many 1 dozen egg cartons available and only so many packing machines.

Industrial bakeries and processors of packaged food buy bulk liquid eggs, no carton at all. Also in many states it is illegal to sell this supply-chain directly to consumers.

On your standard buffet of any size, do you really think they boil eggs and peel them? They come in a bag, boiled and diced; those nice uniform slices of boiled egg you see on your salad, a lot of them come in tubes boiled and extruded at the same time, just unwrap and slice. Your scrambled eggs come in a homogenized bag on most buffets.

Another example of Main Street being gutted and “improved by wall street” NO local egg processors available or many small egg producers either, all corporate and huge, contracted to sell to the corporate masters.

This is a warning the same problems exist in all supply chains.

The supply chain is farked.

David Osterloh, 61-year-old dairy farmer
So really we've gotten screwed by over by China, but also by Wall Street (all in the name of efficiency & squeezing out more profits to the shareholders, which inevitably means the large shareholders at the top). What a fishy business model.
Why can't consumers buy eggs in 30 egg trays or in paper bags or baskets they way it was done only a couple of decades ago?

Milk can be sold to people who bring their own receptacle or in canisters.

Why the autism? Will people starve to death because of autism?
 
You can't take complex supply chains, built over years and involving hundreds of thousands of people scattered across the entire globe, and retool them in the space of a week or two.

Economies are not designed to be turned off. When you do because OMG SCARY VIRUS, you get stupid results like this, and chalking it up to "autism" just means you don't know how the world works.
 
SamuelBRoberts said:
You can't take complex supply chains, built over years and involving hundreds of thousands of people scattered across the entire globe, and retool them in the space of a week or two.

Economies are not designed to be turned off. When you do because OMG SCARY VIRUS, you get stupid results like this, and chalking it up to "autism" just means you don't know how the world works.

Well, I live in a city. I know three dairy farms within an hour's drive. We don't need any big scary supply chains. If I was autistic I'd cry because the supermarket is out of my favourite brand of organic milk. I'm not autistic, so I could just go and get my own from a farmer who's desperate to make sales, but I don't need to because the local logistics infrastructure (i.e. man with a van) brings it to my door.

Having said that if you're a globohomo bugman, you might have trouble sourcing your soy chai latte.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
It's mostly illegal these days to deviate from the mass-production just-in-time systems where it relates to food. Whether those laws were made for the greater good or in order to prevent people from returning to the old ways is a matter for debate. Locally for example the government here attempted to make it illegal to sell home farmed eggs. Granted they didn't word it like that. They didn't propose "you may not sell eggs from your home chicken coop". They simply proposed that all eggs must be marked with a date and a bar code, as if non-professional sellers were ever going to buy the machines necessary to do that.

Currently if I want to buy milk from the farm (where it's not pasteurized) I have to be very clear that it's for "animal consumption" and I also have to be on very good terms with the farmer because there's plenty of scumbag auditors who love nothing more than tricking primary producers into doing something that will land them with a five figure fine on the spot.

Having said that, the city folk will invariably be fed but not in the way they want. Corporate tikkun olam will now push to wipe out owner operator farms and put everyone on half-rations produced at their many million acre agricorp facilities. The purpose for which will be to recover wild spaces, save the environment, reduce obesity, etc. The cover for the shortages will be catastrophic farm collapse as a result of climate change.

Once they dominate food production utterly they can limit consumption by price-gouging and rationing due to artificially created shortages, which we're getting a taste of now (so to speak).
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
Kona said:
Can't you just not milk the cow?

Aloha!
Nope. The cow is optimized for high dairy yield, and suddenly stopping milking it would cause it to get infected and die.

Of course you could gradually milk it less and less until it stopped producing anything, but that would take 2-5 weeks. Maybe that's what should be done, but surely demand is expected to return (or be rerouted so that the milk goes to supermarkets) eventually, so I don't think it's in anyone's interest to stop the production.
 
I don't expect any food crises in China or anywhere else, for that matter.

The US is opening up in time to avoid the very worst of the worst case scenarios. It feels like now we're just stuck with a massive 2008-level global depression on our hands and not a civilizational collapse.

It sucks but it beats everybody starving to death because nobody was allowed to go work in the food processing factory.
 

Emancipator

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Laner said:
The cutback of the Cargill slaughterhouse is a special piss off. I have family from Longview and Black Diamond and this place is brutal. They lobby the government to shut down all the smaller places and consolidate the slaughter to the big guys in High River and Brooks. Staff them full of gangster Somalians and now they just shut down leaving millions of kg of cattle just milling about.
Typical Koch brothers bullshit, they probably have their hands so far up UCP and local officials asses too


1 Dead and now the plant is fully shutdown, that's 40% of Canada's beef supply and devastating to ranchers

A few eye openers in the article, mostly staffed by cheap foreign workers (20% temporary). Apparently many would car-pool and just hang out together in the break room, wouldn't be surprised if someone brought it from out of country. Probably still went to work even though sick.

And because big households they spread it to those living with them who in turn caused community transmission (some of them working in care homes)

Shitty situation.

Another huge plant JBS in Brooks has a large outbreak.

I'm pretty sure that's another 20-30% of Canadian Beef in addition to Cargill's 40%
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
Even if this is "just a flu" and isn't fatal, you still can't run a meat processing plant when everyone is out on sick leave with fever and violent coughing. If there was a normal flu epidemic and 358 workers were suddenly placed out of action, the plant would have probably also had severe problems or been closed outright.
 

Emancipator

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
Even if this is "just a flu" and isn't fatal, you still can't run it when everyone is out on sick leave with fever and violent coughing. If there was a normal flu epidemic and 358 workers were suddenly placed out of action, the plant would have probably also had severe problems or been closed outright.
Nevermind government institutions like Police/Military/Firefighters needed for society.

The flu doesn't force an American aircraft carrier, nor a French one out of service and into port
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Emancipator said:
Laner said:
The cutback of the Cargill slaughterhouse is a special piss off. I have family from Longview and Black Diamond and this place is brutal. They lobby the government to shut down all the smaller places and consolidate the slaughter to the big guys in High River and Brooks. Staff them full of gangster Somalians and now they just shut down leaving millions of kg of cattle just milling about.
Typical Koch brothers bullshit, they probably have their hands so far up UCP and local officials asses too


1 Dead and now the plant is fully shutdown, that's 40% of Canada's beef supply and devastating to ranchers

A few eye openers in the article, mostly staffed by cheap foreign workers (20% temporary). Apparently many would car-pool and just hang out together in the break room, wouldn't be surprised if someone brought it from out of country. Probably still went to work even though sick.

And because big households they spread it to those living with them who in turn caused community transmission (some of them working in care homes)

Shitty situation.

Another huge plant JBS in Brooks has a large outbreak.

I'm pretty sure that's another 20-30% of Canadian Beef in addition to Cargill's 40%
Ranchers have been yelling about this for a decade. They knew it was coming. Maybe not the wuflu, but something. Farmers have the longest memories of all.

I spoke with family about beef shortages and they said that up in my home area that ranchers told the government to fuck right off when they tried to shut down all the small slaughterhouses. So in the small town near my parents there are 4 fairly large processors, plus dad said he knows of 5 or more that have the facilities on their farms. Not to mention our Mennonite family. Mom said they are selling food like crazy.

Its the supermarkets that are going to get the squeeze. I suggest getting a line on some other channels for your beef in the next week or two just in case.
 

Mountaineer

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Laner said:
Not to mention our Mennonite family. Mom said they are selling food like crazy.

Its the supermarkets that are going to get the squeeze.
Finally, at last!

I completely switched to meat and eggs produced by local farmers. The quality is much higher and it's keeping the small, honest farms in business. Last year the Polish gov put into law that farmers can sell directly to the customer. Now it's exactly the thing we need.
 
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