Countering the "Christ was a Jew" Argument (A Review of Jacob Elon Conner)

[MajorStyles]

I'm currently reading the book Christ Was Not a Jew: An Epistle to the Gentiles by Jacob Elon Conner (1936). He points out a basic historical fact regarding history/geography which is rarely discussed:

1.) Jesus Christ was born in Galilee​

2.) Isaiah referred to that region as "Galilee of the Gentiles"​

3.) In the book of John, we read “Are you from Galilee, too? Look into it, and you will find that a prophet does not come out of Galilee.”​

4.) At the time of Christ, the Greeks had permeated Western Galilee​

5.) Simon Maccabee expelled the Jews from Galilee in 164 BC, leaving it completely gentile.​

6.) Fifty years after the death of Christ, King Josephus wrote that the Galleans were a completely different kind of people than those of Judea​

7.) The Talmud claims that there was a law against Jews intermarrying with Galileans.​

To quote Conner directly, “Whoever makes the assertion that Christ was a Jew is either ignorant or insincere: ignorant when he confuses race and religion; insincere when he knows the history of Galilee,"

Very compelling points in my opinion. The basic historical/geographic reality has been swept under the rug.

If we accept Christ as divine, then Conner argues that the response to Pontius Pilate is sufficient:

"The supreme testimony of Christ against the Jewish messiahship was during this mock trial, when He said, “Ye call me King, and so I am; but My kingdom is not of this world.” Isn’t that enough to silence the tradition of the Jewish messiahship so far as Christ was concerned? What more could be asked for?"​

Conner goes on to shed light on other elements. He dives into the spirit of the Ebionies (Judaizers) which he believes are the cause of this confusion.

My Perspective

When one reads the early Church fathers (Augustine or Chrysostom) or even later thinkers like Aquinas, one finds no mention of Christ being a Jew: at least I have not found it in Confessions, City of God, Summa Theologica, etc. And these men were closer to the time period than we are. Moreover, one is more likely to find condemnation.

Is it possible than the "powers that be" tried to change the identity of Jesus Christ? By doing so, this would make any criticism of Jewish behavior a moot point, since it makes it seem like you are criticizing yourself as a Christian. Is it possible that this was the main goal of any scriptural revisions done over the years?

The oligarchs love to change the definition of things: i.e., vaccines, man, woman, etc. Why would they not change the definition of the most significant individual in the last 2,000 years? To think that they would not try is naive, no?

that's my two cents. Any input is welcome... God bless!

 

[Iacobus]

I think by engaging in the ethnicity argument you're playing into the hands of those who are trying to muddy the waters. Jesus was born into a people and culture that worshipped God and followed the Law. He was recognized by those such as St. Photini at the well as belonging to the Jews rather than the Samaritans. Of course as the Godman Christ is not "bound" to any ethnicity, however he did indeed arise of the house of David as was prophesied.

The more relevant point that gets rightfully repeated on this forum is that the Jews of Christ's era are not the same as modern Jews whose religion is founded on the denial of Christ and who have changed dramatically in theology and ethnicity in the last 2000 years. As such any attempt to use Christ as a shield against anti-Semitism is laughable in its premise.

 

[Viktor Zeegelaar]

The question is: what is a Jew? A Jew is a person that rejected Christ, and often went on into the complete opposite (Satanic) direction, as we see with all the -bergs and -steins who control culture, finance and essentially the world. A ''Jew'' who accepted Christ stopped being a Jew and became a Christian. I don't really see the point too much in the ethnical Jewish discussion to be honest, because as E. Michael Jones put in his book, it's the revolutionary spirit, the rejection of Christ, and the subsequent relentless attack towards everything that is Christian, Godly and good that defines what a Jew is.

 

[bucky]

I think it was Vox Day who said that Christ was a jew in the same way that George Washington was British.

 

[KomnenAl]

I think there is a confusion about the term "Jew" here.

Our Lord is an Israelite from the tribe of Juda (as per the OT prophecies). He wasn't "a Jew" as we mean it today. Gallilea was where Saint Josef dwelled after his return from Egypt. He fled there together with the Theotokos from Bethleem (Judea), their original ancestral home.

He Himself said to the Samaritan woman that "Salvation [i.e. Christ] comes from the Judeans".

 

[Wutang]

Could it be said there's a difference between an Israelite and a Jew? When I think of Israelite I usually think of Old Testament figures such as King David and the various prophets while when I think of Jew I usually think of the modern secular person that had ancestors that practiced Rabbinical Judaism but who most likely doesn't practice himself.

 

[Blade Runner]

Yes, as KomnenAI states, the first point of OP is incorrect, since Bethlehem is "of Judea", though yes, he was raised in Galilee so more appropriately, or at least by accent or total number of years, he's "Galilean" by most accounts or people.

We've been over this before, but yes the problem is with the word "Jew" and that first starts with the usage of that word as some synonym for the 2nd temple hebrews who followed the torah, among other things. Of course, Christ wasn't a jew according to what the "jews" are now, how could he be. This is a pretty clear deficit in modern critical thinking, and is quite obvious. The funnier thing is that they aren't the Israel of God, either. I wonder if they thought the lost tribes were still the Israel of God, after their disobedience.

Either way, we should pray for them, and for each other, as God permits people who follow all of the above to do certain things in the world, apparently according to His providence. Remember, if they did it to Him, they'll do it to us.

 

[stugatz]

He was a Jew in the sense that he was of the Jewish faith (the Last Supper was a Passover meal, he celebrated Hannukah, etc.), but this is before Christianity was founded as a new religion with himself as its Messiah. (This is also before the Jews were thrown out of their homeland and before they had over a thousand years to continue their faith - and a huge portion of that was disparaging Christ.)

I think people are trying to claim that he's a Jew in order to fool people into thinking he would still be one today if he came back to Earth to visit. These are the same people who also claim Jesus was an Arab (not a pre-Arab invasion Levantine), and he's the same ethnicity as "people who get harassed in airports". They're also the people who keep bringing up that Christmas probably actually happened in the summer - uh, so? Or that Jesus was probably born in 4 AD instead of the year 0, which a lot of Christians still say (that scene in Back to the Future really didn't help matters).

Can anyone with better situational awareness than me shed some light on what the point of all of this discussion is? It's interesting, but I find it frustrating because none of this contradicts the Bible - why do cultural opponents keep bringing it up?

 

[MusicForThePiano]

He was a Jew in the sense that he was of the Jewish faith (the Last Supper was a Passover meal, he celebrated Hannukah, etc.), but this is before Christianity was founded as a new religion with himself as its Messiah. (This is also before the Jews were thrown out of their homeland and before they had over a thousand years to continue their faith - and a huge portion of that was disparaging Christ.)

I think people are trying to claim that he's a Jew in order to fool people into thinking he would still be one today if he came back to Earth to visit. These are the same people who also claim Jesus was an Arab (not a pre-Arab invasion Levantine), and he's the same ethnicity as "people who get harassed in airports". They're also the people who keep bringing up that Christmas probably actually happened in the summer - uh, so? Or that Jesus was probably born in 4 AD instead of the year 0, which a lot of Christians still say (that scene in Back to the Future really didn't help matters).

Can anyone with better situational awareness than me shed some light on what the point of all of this discussion is? It's interesting, but I find it frustrating because none of this contradicts the Bible - why do cultural opponents keep bringing it up?

The importance of this topic is that it has essentially derailed much of the faithful into heresies and blasphemies over the last 130 years to believe that Christ was a "jew" as we know them now. Many people think of what he was practicing, and it was essentially the law from Moses, or Mosaism. It was not called Judaism back then. Rabbinical Judaism, which culminated in the "Judaism" of today along with all its offshoots, whether it be Marxism, Zionism, Bolshevism, etc, were the Sanhedrin who set their hands on the Lord, and they had initially formed several hundred years before Christ walked the earth, not as the official religion of the Hebrews, but as a priestly class of hypocrites who weaseled their way into Judean politics.

NOTE: While the books I am about to quote are not of direct Orthodox, Apostolic, or Catholic literature, it does have correct research on the genetic and anthropological backgrounds of the Judeans. Some of these authors express views I will not post here in terms of their own beliefs in certain racialism. However, I think it is important that we look at the many different peoples of the region, analyze the twelve tribes and their lineages, and sift through the murky waters of history to see why those who say "Jesus was a jew" are incorrect, for a multitude of reasons. The first being no lies should be peddled at all on moral principle.

"the word 'jew' is derived from Ioudaios, not Yehudi. 'Jew' is obviously the short form of 'Judean' and not 'Judahite' because the word refers to all inhabitants of Judea at that time, including Canaanites and Israelites. Since it is utterly confusing to have a word refer to both Israelites and non Israelites at the same time, it only makes sense to use the word 'jew' to apply to those who still use it today: the modern jews. Of course, these jews are the descendants of the Sephardic Edomites and Canaanites. Hence, the word Jew applies exclusively to these non Judahites. The Jews have always been a polyglot nation of numerous mixed ethnicities, while the Judahites of the land of Judah were always the exclusive, racially homogeneous descendants of the patriarch Judah. The mongrelized jews are always seeking to justify their own mongrelization by claiming that the tribe of Judah itself mongrelized. That is a patent lie. We will see later the true Judahites of Judea rejected Herod because he was an Idumean. This included public demonstrations against him by the Judahites of Jerusalem. True Judah tried to have him removed from office, but Herod was a vassal of Rome; and Rome was using him to control the land of Judea."

"By the time of Christ, Galilee had developed an identity very distinct from that of Judea. Marilyn R. Allen, on page 2 in her article entitled, "Jesus Was Not a Jew," in the June 1981 CDL Report, states: "Josephus... describes the Galileans as a people wholly unlike the Jews in temperament and ideals-- so different indeed that they could not have been of the same race. There was a taboo against intermarriage between them as recorded in the Jewish Talmud. In a word, Christ... was a Galilean, and the Galileans were not Jews." "

"In Matthew 13:53, Matthew describes Jesus's relationship with Galilee as "his own country." John 7:1 tells us: "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." Peter, on the night he thrice denied Christ, was once accused on account of his tell-tale, Galilean accent. (See Mark 14:70 and Luke 22:58-60).

"So within the country called Judea, whose people were known as Judeans, there was a distinction between Galileans and Jews proper as well as a distinction between Judahites and Jews. Jesus, and Mary and Joseph were all of the House of David. It is worth reiterating an observation that nowhere in the Bible are the terms Jew and Israel used synonymously, and nowhere is there a direct statement saying the Jews are Israel."

"Incidentally, Josephus, the chronicler of the history of Israel, especially the House of Judah, was of a pure-bred Judahite family. Josephus, in his autobiography, goes to great pains to demonstrate his lineage, testifying that he looked it up in the hall of records to verify it for himself. Although he was born in Jerusalem, he felt no alienation from the Galileans, for approximately 50 years after the death of CHrist, Joesphus was the governor of Galilee."

"It is also worth noting that those who most vehemently deny Jesus was a Jew are jews themselves. Their own writings are full of these denials-- even going so far as to claim that Mary committed infidelity and Jesus was born out of wedlock. But when it comes to putting up a "Judeo-Christian" front, the apologists for Judaism, for the benefit of those Christians who must be deceived, swear and gesticulate Christ's and Christianity's origins in Judaism. This is jewish duplicity at its finest."

As for what Jesus practiced in his youth, in more depth it can be described here:

"the Law of Moses versus the traditions of the elders. That the Law of Moses is distinct from the Traditions of the Elders is a basic fact. To the extent that the scribes and Pharisees deviated from the Mosaic Law by their own traditions, Jesus thoroughly condemned them. Their deviousness and shrewdness is substantiated by Josephus on page 358 in Book XVII, chapter 2: "These are those that are called the sect of the Pharisees, who were in a capacity of greatly opposing kings. A cunning sect they were, and soon elevated to a pitch of open fighting and doing mischief."

These are from Chapter 11 of a book called "The Great Impersonation". While I do not canonically agree with the author on many things, these inconvenient facts to the jewish lie are undoubtedly steeped in truth, at least from a historical and genetic perspective, and to some extent a spiritual perspective in at least lending evidence support the claim that what Jesus did not practice was the religion of Judaism as it is today.

Some other interesting pieces of jewish literature that contradict their own modern sentiments are found in the "Jewish Almanac" and "Encyclopedia Judaica"

"Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary jew a "Hebrew" or "Israelite"."
Jewish Almanac Chapter 1, Page 3

"Edom/Esau is modern Jewry."
Encyclopedia Judaica 1945, Vol 5 page 41

"Edomite Jews began to call themselves Hebrews and Israelites in 1860"
Encyclopedia Judaica 1971 Vol. 10:23

For the mods, are we allowed to discuss the Dead Sea Scrolls here?

 

[Blade Runner]

Are we allowed to discuss the Dead Sea Scrolls here?

Why not? What tangent are you going to?

 

[MusicForThePiano]

Why not? What tangent are you going to?

I'm still researching it, I've been at it for awhile but need more time before I can articulate a related argument for this topic, but I do believe it is relevant to it. The biggest issue so far is the distinction between the centuries of jews decrying Jesus and saying horrible things about Him to flipping a 180 and then claiming that He came from them, with some going back and forth, but the hatred of Christ still exists inherently within most jews. There is perfidy afoot in their tactics, and unsuspecting or unlearned Christians can fall into this trap easily without learning about history from a genealogical perspective, including Judea.

 

[paternos]

"Interesting thread, as it shows how hard it is to define 'Jew'.

• Is it racial? How do we measure that? Do we know for sure that these people fully stem from Abraham. And don't we all? There are so many uncertainties in this argument.
• Is it someone who goes to a synagogue? Most Jews who harm the world are not religious. They call themselves liberal Jews.
• Is it because they only accept the Torah? Or is it Kabbalistic?
• Are Jews from Poland the same as German Jews or Russian Jews?

The more I think about it, the harder it becomes to define the modern Jew.

I think Jewishness is a typical case of identity politics in which everyone gets lost. A hollow word. Like conservative. Or progressive. I don't believe this perfect lineage from those in the Kingdom of Judea to the German, Ukrainian, Russian Jews now dominating the world.

I think Jewishness is an identity movement, selling to Jews the idea that they are one. With a shared history, a shared Holocaust, a shared resentment. It's the most successful identity movement we have seen as they were able to confiscate a full country and dominate banking, Western politics and the media.

I think it's more like a modern cult, and I think a Jew in the 16th century would have no feeling of a relationship with those in Israel today.

I feel when watching a Jew I'm watching LARP'ers, as if everything is a show. It's so far away from having a peaceful Shabbat.




So to get back to the question, was Christ a Jew? Yes, he was, in a worldly sense, as he was born in the Kingdom of Judah.




The Judeans cultivated part of the Truth, Jesus completed it. His father didn't send him to Judea for no reason. As the seed was there in Judea, Jesus watered the seed. Most of all, Jesus is the Son of God, who was brought to Judea to bring truth.

For example, in John 10:35, Jesus says, "...and the scripture cannot be broken," implying that what the scriptures say is definitive and the truth. In Matthew 5:18, He says, "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." This shows His belief in the enduring truth and importance of the Torah, which is a part of the Old Testament.

Summary: Jesus was born in the Kingdom of Judah, which makes him a Jew in the worldly sense, as we are German, French or American. He is the son of and is God, so not the ruler of Judah, but the ruler of all and everything, the kingdom of heaven. Those in Judah understood part of God, not all, Jesus completed that, so we all can know Truth today.

When we talk of a Jew today. It has nothing to do with the kingdom of Judah. I think the Palestinians are more likely to be descendants of the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Judah than the "Jews" around the world.

The modern "Jew" is an identity group. It's about those who desire to be part of this identity group. In my opinion, Jews are a group of aggressive LARP'ers with no clear shared faith or even race. Some sub-groups have more similarities, like the Hasidic Jews. But they were founded in Ukraine during the 18th century by Rabbi Israel Ben Eliezer.

There is no "Jew". Like there is no "white" or "black" man. These are hollow shells. It's a distraction from the teachings of our Lord Christ.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28"

Identity politics is by definition anti-Christian. As we are called to unite under God. And one thing all these Jews aggressively do is deny Christ. In that sense they are spiritual descendants of those those that deny the Christ when he lived. And anyone denying the Christ are essentially Jews, rebels against the Truth.

Anyone we are called to be all one in Jesus christ, and these cultish LARP'ers are trying to achieve the exact opposite. Masters of division.

 

[Pete345]

I have heard it said (by "Jews") that anyone can claim to be Jewish, so long as they don't wear a cross around their neck. That says a lot right there.

 

[Blade Runner]

I think Jewishness is an identity movement, selling to Jews the idea that they are one. With a shared history, a shared Holocaust, a shared resentment. It's the most successful identity movement we have seen as they were able to confiscate a full country and dominate banking, Western politics and the media.

Yes, and this is such a good point because it leads to its supporting point that this identity movement also pushes all other identity movements to make its own more solid. The chaos theory seen in all identity politics. Confusing, but real.

In that sense they are spiritual descendants of those those that deny the Christ when he lived.

Here is your most important point. Our battle with the world is primarily spiritual, and our bodies are important in this role as they are a means to consider, and test, the spiritual. It is sad that we fail so much, but we are faithful if we keep struggling and admit when we miss the mark. How ironic is it that they met the one true God, in the flesh, beholding the material - but He was a stumbling block for them, because of the spiritual reality he spoke of concerning God and his true children! They miss all the important points of the spirit being more critical to direct the material, even though their "father" Abraham (and his "descendants) was a type also based on this reality.