Creative Writing Section

[Beyond Borders]

BUMP

I've got a novel and a few short stories on Amazon.

I've also got another novel outlined and about a third fleshed-out. A few others barely begun. And about three nonfiction books I've done a significant portion on but that still need a lot of work.

Right now I'm trying to put the majority of my focus into completing the second novel and one of the nonfiction books. I think for writers it's actually okay to have a few different projects going at once, though, because you can work on whichever you feel like.

Bad idea to overdo it, but for some people, it helps a lot to mix up your creative energy throughout the week. I actually got the idea from an author; I don't remember who.

I have published 3 novels. Also ran a blog for years, had thousands of subscribers. Have many more books to go.

Hit me up if you want, I can send you a link to my site. Not posting it here.

Did you ever send me this? I can't remember if ever pm'ed you about it.

So, 850 words and you haven't arrived at the true opening sentence yet. Do you plan on doing anything with this?

C'mon - there's room for improvement, but it takes balls to throw it out there. The opening could use some work, but I found myself getting caught up in it.

So, 850 words and you haven't arrived at the true opening sentence yet. Do you plan on doing anything with this?

Eh, not really. I don't know what my problem is, I'm pretty good at writing introductions and first chapters, but I'm crappy at continuing them. A few years ago I wrote a hundred-page story that wasn't finished, but that's the furthest I've ever gotten.

Your problem is you're human. All writers struggle with these issues.

Making more come out requires effort, like anything else worthwhile. Just keep sitting down and plugging away with it. It will take your creative side time to learn how to adapt to being deeper in the story, but it will get there. Hundred pages is nothing to sneeze at either. Why not pull it back out and try again?

Outlining might work for you too. I recommend a book called Million Dollar Outlines.

I have two blogs and one self-published novel. Always wanted to be a writer, but bills, etc. These days I look at the stack of unfinished novels and sigh. I even tried to re-start another novel last week and spent 15 minutes staring at a blank page.

Maybe pick one and make it a goal for the next couple months?

I have several author friends on Facebook. They spend most of the time posting and whining about the industry. It seems to me they should spend more time writing.

Ain't that the truth. The unpublished spend all their time talking about books they are going to write and the published spend their time complaining about the industry.

Avoidance is a huge problem for writers.

I often find myself getting caught up in the idea of how to market my next novel or trying to key in on what's the next big thing as Amazon evolves. Then it occurs to me that hours, days, months are slipping by and I'm not writing.

I think a lot of writers also do this by reading books about character-building, world-building, the ins and outs of resonance, etc. These mechanical things are cool to read, but often they become mental masturbation, and you'll see top writers often break all the supposed rules.

Maybe best to read this stuff for outside perspective in your free time between writing but never let it keep you from starting.

Personally, I think the most productive things you can do as a fiction writer is read books by the masters or the most popular and write.

 

[Beyond Borders]

By the way, I'm thinking it would be cool for some of us to do a 1000-words per day challenge.

I can start a thread on it, but should we do more?

1500 words maybe?

I'm a freelancer, so we'll have to make a stipulation that it must be your own property. Fiction, non-fiction, blog, whatever. 1000 words of new, raw content per day.

The idea is to make the habit of writing everyday a top priority.

What do you guys think?

 

[Sooth]

I would like to do that.

Don't know where I'm going to find the time, maybe get up 15 mins earlier and write with my morning coffee.

 

[Sooth]

One of my earlier memories from school was putting my heart and soul into a short story. I enjoyed writing it and I thought it was epic.

I showed it to the teacher and she went ahead and pointed out all the mistakes and bits that didn't make sense. I never bothered again and I'm starting to think I should have as I express myself much better in written word.

 

[Paracelsus]

Not that I'm published or anything - self-published in non-fiction in a niche area of knowledge - but I think I've made enough of a slog through of books about writing to provide a couple of recommendations (and dis-recommendations) for which books to look at.

Let's start with the mainstay of all would-be writers' lists of books you must apparently read: On Writing, by Stephen King. You'd think somebody who's had that most rare of things, a career in bestselling fiction, would have something substantial to say to beginning writers, some solid advice to offer, some solid principles for good storytelling?

Nope. The book is not completely bullshit, but fully half of it is autobiographical stuff you don't really need to know about King or about his technique. In his defence, King is not writing a book on how to write, he's writing a book subtitled "A Memoir of The Craft", so you can't sue him for false representation when it says nothing about openings, endings, or anything else. But don't be fooled: this is not Sun Tzu where every phrase contains boundless depths of instruction when unpacked after a few good tokes and writing experience. As education in writing goes, it's a pissy little overview at best.

The second thing is this: unless you are well up the seat-of-the-pants end of the spectrum of writers, you probably don't share a lot in common with Stephen King. King goes so far to say that when he outlines his stories -- which he did with Insomnia -- they turn out bad. Like a lot of phenomenally talented people in their disciplines, it's apparent that King has internalised the technique, the craft of it, so thoroughly that even he can't verbalise exactly what goes into his writing anymore or how exactly he does it. And it's a fault that most writers who write books about their craft share -- very few can break down their knowledge into a useable or referable form. (In passing, for a real look at somehow legitimately trying to take apart their own techniques and show how they learn, The Art of Learning by Josh Waitzkin is a revelation. If you haven't already seen the recommendation here on ROK, I will again underline it - it is pure liquid gold to anyone trying to learn a new skill.)

Anyway, Stephen King's advice on writing given in his book can be condensed down to:

(1) Don't use adverbs.
(2) Tell a story.
(3) Don't do cocaine, maaaan.

This is not a book you'll be coming back to again and again for reference. Get it out from the library once and then forget it, it's a piece of shit that gives you nothing substantial to work with.

Dan Simmons' website. Not a book, but a series of long essays (and still continuing) by the guy who wrote Hyperion and maintained under the Writing Well section of his website at www.dansimmons.com . Dan's later books don't match the high point of Hyperion, but he's a lot more no-bullshit than Stephen King and he's prepared to be a lot more erudite and specific about how the writing process works. His essays again are not directed at really basic stuff on writing, but there is a lot of good shit in there, enough to almost make you intimidated if not awestruck at the guy's capacity for research if not his intellect. In particular if you're reading ROK you'll align with his ideas that "feminist" writers (and "black", and "Asian", and "literary" writers) should do the world a favour and drop the adjective or stop being the noun.

Aspects of the Novel, E.M. Forster. Acclaimed as a classic, but it was written about a century ago and it was written for the extremely literary end of the novel spectrum, from the time period occupied by people like James Joyce, Virginia Woolf et. al. Has some useful bits and pieces, but again not a constant-reference work in my view. Same thing goes for collections of Henry James' notes to his novels -- assaulting a Henry James book is the literary equivalent of assaulting the exposed face of K-2, and the same thing goes for his advice on writing.

How Fiction Works, James Wood. Shorter than On Writing by about half and worth four times more. Biggest drawback: Wood is not an author but a literary critic. As a more general point of advice, I'd say take with a heavy grain of salt any book on writing that's written by anyone other than an actual author, mainly because you're always looking at someone who looks at writing from the outside in. But Wood is the real deal: highly intellectual, though not as brain-numbing as Harold Bloom in full flight, and his observations on how things such as metaphor and point of view work on our psyches are pretty damn good. Simmons recommends him; I bought his book on the strength of that -- it's literally the only book he exhorts would-be writers to read -- and it's pretty good advice, applicable not just for literary novels at all.

Reading Like A Writer, by the hilariously-appropriately-named Francine Prose. I'd suggest you read her before touching James Wood, because she touches on a number of the same subjects but in a much more approachable form, which Wood then expands on. She seems to come from the same writing background as Dan Simmons - although I came to her and Dan independently - and she hits on any number of subjects which teach you how to focus on the intermediate stuff, the technique of writing: detail, character, point of view, dialogue, all of these things and more. Her love of Anton Chekhov is so obvious that she'd probably administer a blowjob to his revenant corpse if given the opportunity, but the advice she gives is not high-falutin' literary criticism and teaches you how to actually do that bullshit piece of advice to "Read other writers and learn how they did X".

The Writer's Journey, Christopher Vogler. Vogler's book typifies a large stream of writers' books that basically plagiarise Joseph Campbell's The Hero With A Thousand Faces, suggesting that as long as your protagonist basically follows the Hero's Journey, you're set. In essence, if you're familiar with the Hero's Journey as Campbell suggests -- and it's pretty fucking easy to either get familiar with it on the Internet or save some time and pick up Campbell's well-known book -- you've basically read anything useful Vogler has to say. In addition, Vogler teaches scriptwriting fundamentally. It's not the same medium as a novel (although see below - there is an exception to the rule). Lastly, this book also does what a number of writing books in my view do, what I call "Square Pegging" -- they espouse a line that "all stories have form X, look at this random grab bag of books in which I twist or misread elements of a book to fit form X."

Writing the Bestseller Novel, Albert Zuckerman. Yes, it's a book by a literary agent, but at least it's Ken Follett's literary agent. It's a bit dated now, and being by a literary agent it's not as sharp on technique as other books mentioned here, but Zuckerman makes some solid points about "big" novels having to ratchet up plot tension and link the characters together in ever-new and unexpected ways. Not bad if you can get it secondhand.

Writing the Breakout Novel, Donald Maas. Another literary agent novel. Lot of people swear by him. The book has a decent amount of material in it, but there is another book which I think covers the same ground in a solid way. Good to decent value.

Story, Robert McKee. First caveats: McKee's a screenwriter. And has never sold a screenplay himself.

But: he has taught literally dozens of screenwriters who've gone on to win Academy Awards; McKee's ideas feature in the movie Adaptation if you can be bothered to find it. But as far as substantial material on the underlying guts of story goes - what plot is, what character is, how they work, how they move us - you will find no better teacher on the body of knowledge and technique that underlies the media of film and novels. In essence he updates (and relies on) Aristotle's Poetics - itself worth a read, but not essential - and once you've read his books, you cannot help but recognise the same advice being given to you by any number of writing books that are hitting exactly the same points, just without the erudition or clear enunciation. What sold me on McKee was in the first chapter or so of his book - that what he teaches are principles rather than rules. "Rules say, 'Do it this way'. Principles say, 'This works, and has through all recorded time.'" It is truly shameful that fiction writers have to turn to a source outside their medium for solid instruction on the underlying mechanics of story, but there it is.

Read him, or at least have a listen to the audiobook which summarises the book itself. You will not learn much about writing technique, but you'll learn a shitload about story. Is he perfect? No: in particular you'll chuckle on some of the basic mistakes he makes when using the plot of Star Wars to illustrate his point. But he analyses really solid film stories like Chinatown and Casablanca with considerable erudition, and off the strength of this 90% I think you can forgive the other 10%.

 

[Paracelsus]

Double post: That should be Writing the Blockbuster Novel by Albert Zuckerman.

 

[Beyond Borders]

I would like to do that.

Don't know where I'm going to find the time, maybe get up 15 mins earlier and write with my morning coffee.

Right on. You may need a bit more than 15 minutes to crank out 1000 words though. lol

 

[Agastya]

By the way, I'm thinking it would be cool for some of us to do a 1000-words per day challenge.

I can start a thread on it, but should we do more?

1500 words maybe?

I'm a freelancer, so we'll have to make a stipulation that it must be your own property. Fiction, non-fiction, blog, whatever. 1000 words of new, raw content per day.

The idea is to make the habit of writing everyday a top priority.

What do you guys think?

That's a fantastic idea. 1000 words a day sounds reasonable. I can start it this Friday(after my finals are over).

 

[Beyond Borders]

By the way, I'm thinking it would be cool for some of us to do a 1000-words per day challenge.

I can start a thread on it, but should we do more?

1500 words maybe?

I'm a freelancer, so we'll have to make a stipulation that it must be your own property. Fiction, non-fiction, blog, whatever. 1000 words of new, raw content per day.

The idea is to make the habit of writing everyday a top priority.

What do you guys think?

I would like to do that.

Don't know where I'm going to find the time, maybe get up 15 mins earlier and write with my morning coffee.

That's a fantastic idea. 1000 words a day sounds reasonable. I can start it this Friday(after my finals are over).

Cool.

I went ahead and started a separate thread for this: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-45973-post-980454.html#pid980454

 

[Patriarch]

Paracelsus, why does Stephen King say not to use adverbs?

Thanks for the knowledge bomb.

 

[Beyond Borders]

Paracelsus, why does Stephen King say not to use adverbs?

Thanks for the knowledge bomb.

Most writing teachers will say the same. It's considered weak, lazy, and immature writing and there is usually a better way to describe something than with an adverb.

That said, you'll also notice that many prolific writers, even Stephen King, often use them.

That's one thing I didn't like about On Writing. I actually liked that book a lot - maybe because I've got a long history reading his work. But he breaks nearly every one of his own rules in his own books.

 

[Paracelsus]

Paracelsus, why does Stephen King say not to use adverbs?

Thanks for the knowledge bomb.

Basically he believes they weaken the verb in all but exceptional cases. His specific advice was:

“The road to hell is paved with adverbs. They’re like dandelions. If you have one on your lawn, it looks pretty and unique. If you fail to root it out, however, you find five the next day.”

He's not alone. Mark Twain said he was dead to adverbs, and Elmore Leonard despised them too. It's a common piece of advice given in writing books, including the original (but still good) Bible of good diction, Strunk & White's The Elements of Style. If you're trying to write direct, strong prose, adverbs tend to weigh down the verb with a qualifier that generally isn't needed. It betrays an inability to think of the right verb.

Probably the most obvious use of shitty adverbs comes out in dialogue. Take Elmore Leonard's quote:

""Never use an adverb to modify the verb ‘said’" … he admonished gravely.”

Or let's look at this one--

Hearing a noise, he proceeded carefully across to the door.

Ugggggggh. Most of the time, adverbs creep in because we can't think of the right word. But another reason is because it's writing in the passive voice, the voice of bureaucracy, of politicians, of saying something without saying anything. "Proceeded carefully"? How about crept? Padded? Tiptoed? Slunk? Edged?

It's similar to Mark Twain's advice that "If you see an adjective, kill it." Qualifiers at best spice up a noun or adjective. At worst they're redundant.

 

[Patriarch]

Thanks, after reading those examples it became clear. Those made me cringe.

 

[Beyond Borders]

"Thanks, after reading those examples it became clear. Those made me cringe," Sweet Pea responded appreciatively.

haha Yeah, they're pretty ugly.

 

[General Mayhem]

Paracelsus, why does Stephen King say not to use adverbs?

Thanks for the knowledge bomb.

Most writing teachers will say the same. It's considered weak, lazy, and immature writing and there is usually a better way to describe something than with an adverb.

That said, you'll also notice that many prolific writers, even Stephen King, often use them.

That's one thing I didn't like about On Writing. I actually liked that book a lot - maybe because I've got a long history reading his work. But he breaks nearly every one of his own rules in his own books.

I just read the book last month. What I got from it is that you have to set the bar high with your rules so that you will break them less often than if you had no rules at all.

I really liked the book overall.

 

[Beyond Borders]

^That's a good way to look at it.

 

[ColSpanker]

I'm going to carefully consider all this advice elegantly.
My favorite book on writing is HOW TO GROW A NOVEL by Sol Stein. Stein wrote a book I read back in high school, THE MAGICIAN, which had a profound effect on me. It was a novel about a teen-aged stage magician who gets jumped by a local thug. The kid ends up in the hospital and the thug in court. Over the course of the book, we learn how a court room can be a theater of illusion.
I've just started this freelancing thing on Elance and Craig's List. The results have been mixed. From CL I have an article writing job that pays absurdly low. I'm going to do 10 articles for that company as a learning experience. From Elance I picked up a textbook proof-reading job which paid $20.00 for one hour of work. It might lead to more.