Criticisms of Coronavirus narrative and policy

Rush87

Ostrich
bacon said:
SamuelBRoberts said:
He is getting absolutely annihilated in the replies, and due to the relative size of the audiences (Scott Adam's followers are an order of magnitude bigger than Alex's) these are his own people turning on him.

Adams is followed primarily by twitter normies, not wacky alt-right dissidents who really care about the distinction between the first and second derivative and the false positive paradox.

The tide has turned on this.
I listen to his livestreams off and on since he can provide a normie perspective on this. It's remarkable how emotionally invested he has been. When people bring up the inconsistencies in the narrative in comments during those streams he would shut them down by saying, "well someone would have to explain the overflowing ICUs in NY or Italy." The other day someone asked him to watch a video on Dr. Shiva. He basically told that person that he wasn't going to and he has been lambasting Bill Mitchell as spreading false information trying to equate this to the flu. Adams is often right and I think he has had some good things to say but he reacted completely emotionally to this (he has a vendetta against China since he blames them for selling Fentanyl which caused his exwife's son to OD). Anyway, there a lot of people that will lose credibility going forward from this due to how they reacted, Stefan Molyneux being another one.
Fear. This case has shown that Boomers appear to have fallen into the fear trap more than anyone else. They have been exposed to alot more indoctrination from the media though simply due to their age which might partially explain it.​
 

Blaster

Ostrich
Gold Member
Rush87 said:
Blaster said:
Rush87 said:
Blaster said:
If we'd actually done a true hard shutdown of affected areas (which we SAW the Chinese determined to be necessary after an initial failed attempt at containment), we'd be looking at a real, obvious re-opening next week.
This is all under the assumption that governments are enforcing a lockdown due to Covid-19 and not due to other reasons.
It's not an assumption when there's overwhelming and consistent evidence in support and only speculation and circumstantial cherry-picked evidence against.
If it was overwhelming and consistent, we wouldn't be seeing half a highly intelligent message board, including the man who created it doubting the narrative.
It is completely failing to interpret the data properly, and I don't have all day to debunk every single relentless disinformation post.

I don't know why. Maybe because it's a board used to reacting in contrarian ways against mainstream narratives and indulging in conspiracy theories and useful thought experiments. Maybe the healthy and sensible distrust of legacy media has
become perverted into pathological reflex. I don't know.

If you're going to use smart but contrarian people as a bellweather, here are a handful of dissident-types who are properly interpreting Coronavirus:

Nassim Taleb
Steve Sailer
James Thompson
Gregory Cochran
Vox Day
The already mentioned Scott Adams
Mike Cernovich (though he's hard to keep up with and will sometimes seem to be sending mixed signals)
 

Oak

Robin
Blaster said:
Have you ever attended a lecture as an adult? When the speaker takes the stage, everyone shuts up and sits down. Every single person must do this, because even one rude, inconsiderate group continuing their private conversation will distract everyone else and waste their time. They don't need to be told to behave this way. The kind of people who attend lectures tend to be the type of respectful, self-disciplined people who can pass the marshmallow test.
Ever been locked in lecture hall and told if you try to leave 3% of the population will die. And if you start asking questions everyone implies you are a murderer.

"you want 5% of the population to die?"
"is the economy more important than 8% of the population to you?"
"12% of the population will die if you don't stop being selfish"
"It's Science(!). 14% could die"
"If you don't do what you're told your balls will shrivel up and you will have only one lung left. It affects young healthy people too!"
 

Sherman

Ostrich
""Across the country, from political leaders, to small business owners, to parents who just want to take their children to the park, resistance is growing to the authoritarians who have effectively suspended the Constitution and placed most of the country under house arrest. Lawsuits are also challenging unlawful "stay at home" orders. What if all the hysteria-driven orders have actually made the virus outbreak even worse? More scientists are coming forward to argue for the "Sweden model" of moderation rather than lockdown. Watch today's Liberty Report:"

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...oronavirus-house-arrest-ordersits-about-time/
 

bacon

Ostrich
Gold Member
What kind of BS is this, models can't be wrong? The public was literally losing their minds over the models telling them millions would die, yet they should have known the models weren't supposed to be accurate...
 

Attachments

scorpion

Ostrich
Gold Member
My concern now is that so many people have bought into the virus scare so completely that they will be unable to admit to themselves that the entire thing was massively overblown. Rather than deal with the mental pain of realizing that not only were they suckered, but that they also reacted in a shameful and cowardly fashion, they will double down on the virus. They will demand more draconian measures and permanent changes to society, simply because these will serve to validate their feelings that the virus MUST have been a truly dangerous threat all along. To admit otherwise, to admit that you went along with voluntarily surrendering your rights and freedoms and destroying the economy simply because you were afraid of catching the cold...is simply too painful for people to bear. So they will prolong this fantasy indefinitely in order to avoid this harsh reckoning with the truth.

I don't hold it against anyone who expressed fear and concern over the virus several weeks ago. We're all human and imperfect, and these are natural human emotions when dealing with something like this. But anyone on this forum who's still pushing this virus as any kind of serious threat - much less as something that warrants these absurd national shutdowns - is completely discredited in my eyes. You are without excuse. The facts are now clear. The models were disastrously wrong. The shutdowns will end up causing multiple orders of magnitude more human suffering than the virus itself, just as the skeptics predicted would happen. And that's not even mentioning the incredible long-term damage to our civil liberties that will probably result from this.

If you got it wrong, that's ok. No one is right all the time. Just admit it and move on. Don't double down to defend the indefensible just to protect your ego.

And most of all, never forget what happens when you panic and make decisions based on fear.
 

Enoch

Ostrich
Blaster said:
Rush87 said:
Blaster said:
Rush87 said:
Blaster said:
If we'd actually done a true hard shutdown of affected areas (which we SAW the Chinese determined to be necessary after an initial failed attempt at containment), we'd be looking at a real, obvious re-opening next week.
This is all under the assumption that governments are enforcing a lockdown due to Covid-19 and not due to other reasons.
It's not an assumption when there's overwhelming and consistent evidence in support and only speculation and circumstantial cherry-picked evidence against.
If it was overwhelming and consistent, we wouldn't be seeing half a highly intelligent message board, including the man who created it doubting the narrative.
It is completely failing to interpret the data properly, and I don't have all day to debunk every single relentless disinformation post.

I don't know why. Maybe because it's a board used to reacting in contrarian ways against mainstream narratives and indulging in conspiracy theories and useful thought experiments. Maybe the healthy and sensible distrust of legacy media has
become perverted into pathological reflex. I don't know.

If you're going to use smart but contrarian people as a bellweather, here are a handful of dissident-types who are properly interpreting Coronavirus:

Nassim Taleb
Steve Sailer
James Thompson
Gregory Cochran
Vox Day
The already mentioned Scott Adams
Mike Cernovich (though he's hard to keep up with and will sometimes seem to be sending mixed signals)
Not sure if serious on Scott Adams and Mike Cernovich.

Both have been part of the problem, and are now slowly walking it back trying to restore their credibility.
 

Sherman

Ostrich
Enoch said:
Sherman said:
Trump needs to fire this creep.

""Fauci on US after coronavirus: No shaking hands ‘ever again’""

https://www.foxnews.com/health/fauci-on-us-after-coronavirus-no-shaking-hands-ever-again
I'm not a huge believe in the "simulation" but Fauci has been in his current job since 1984.
That's the problem. He has all kinds of conflicts of interests and unsavory connections. There needs to be a term limit on some higher level federal employees. In telling us we can't shake hands, he is acting like a little dictator and trying to form policy which his outside is domain of authority.
 

Enoch

Ostrich
Sherman said:
Enoch said:
Sherman said:
Trump needs to fire this creep.

""Fauci on US after coronavirus: No shaking hands ‘ever again’""

https://www.foxnews.com/health/fauci-on-us-after-coronavirus-no-shaking-hands-ever-again
I'm not a huge believe in the "simulation" but Fauci has been in his current job since 1984.
That's the problem. He has all kinds of conflicts of interests and unsavory connections. There needs to be a term limit on some higher level federal employees.
I agree 100%. More riffing on the 1984 aspect.
 

tomtud

Pelican
Taken from theglobeandmail.com

Long before COVID-19 emerged, top health authorities from across Canada put together a playbook to prepare for a situation strikingly similar to the one the country now finds itself in.

One of the co-authors of that report was Theresa Tam, now Canada’s chief public health officer in charge of the fight against the novel coronavirus.

According to doctors who worked on the 2006 document, which was based on a hypothetical, highly contagious outbreak of influenza, the urgency of the report faded over time, though the threat never did. It is one of several credible warnings that seem to have gone largely unheeded.

A 2010 federal audit flagged problems with the management of Canada’s emergency stockpile of medical equipment; a 2018 assessment of the H1N1 swine flu outbreak a decade earlier raised concerns about ventilator shortages; and a 2019 study led by a team of global scientists questioned the ability of many countries, including Canada to prevent, detect, and respond to a major outbreak.

As recently as late January, federal officials, including Dr. Tam, said the threat of a major outbreak in Canada was very low, that measures such as travel restrictions weren’t needed, and that the risk of the virus being spread by people without symptoms was highly unlikely.

“Canada’s risk is much, much lower than that of many countries,” Dr. Tam told MPs in Ottawa on Jan. 29, a month after the government was alerted to the outbreak at a market in Wuhan, China. This was four days after a man had arrived in Toronto from Wuhan and became the country’s first case of the disease.

“It’s going to be rare,” she said. “It doesn’t matter how few those cases are, we are preparing the whole country in the event that you might pick up a rare case.”

On Wednesday, during a daily briefing on the crisis, The Globe attempted to ask Dr. Tam about the differences between what she has said about this pandemic and what her report forecast years earlier. The briefing ended without her or other officials taking The Globe’s questions.

Dr. Tam’s department later sent a statement, which quoted her as saying, in part, “My colleagues across the country and I have been working closely, focusing on the rapid implementation of effective, targeted control measures that are appropriate for the current situation ... At the same time, we need to be mindful of the potential side-effects ... including impinging on the rights and freedoms of individuals without good cause and societal disruption in general."

Late on the night of Dec. 30 last year, an alert flashed across an online network known as ProMED, a monitoring system for emerging diseases used by hospitals around the world. “Urgent notice,” the notification said. “Pneumonia of unknown cause.”

The message relayed details of an unusual outbreak around a market in Wuhan, China, to more than 800,000 members on the ProMED network, which is run by the International Society of Infectious Diseases. Few details were known, but given the ferocity of the virus, it warned medical institutions in the region “to strengthen multidisciplinary professional forces such as respiratory, infectious diseases, and intensive medicine in a targeted manner … and improve emergency plans for medical treatment.”

In other words, brace for impact.

It was the first that many Canadian doctors would hear of what would become known as COVID-19, and the ProMED alert sent ripples through the medical community, because physicians knew what that warning could mean. It was exactly the kind of danger health officials began preparing for in 2006, three years after SARS killed 44 people in Canada, and quarantined thousands.

Open this photo in gallery
A nurse wears protective gear at a SARS clinic in Toronto in 2003.

MIKE CASSESE/REUTERS
SARS was seen as a wakeup call. The next outbreak to test Canada’s health-care system could be much worse, so a team of medical experts began drafting a playbook. It was intended to form the basis of the country’s future pandemic preparedness, but it reads like a play-by-play of COVID-19.

“The next pandemic will first emerge outside of Canada,” the 550-page document predicted. The virus “will be present in Canada within 3 months after it emerges in another part of the world, but it could be much sooner because of the volume and speed of global air travel.”

++++++++++++++++
Heads need to roll
 

aeroektar

Pelican
I want to talk briefly about this idea they are floating out that they will do mass antibody testing, and those who are immune will be allowed to go back to work. I'm seeing people on the right (Tucker had a Pharm exec on last night, and Bannon talked about it on his show) entertain the idea as some sort of reasonable middle ground.

1. You'll never have enough tests or even the capability to roll out nationwide mass testing on a consistent regular (weekly or bi monthly) basis.

2. If you're not immune, and because of that can't go back to work, you're telling people they need to catch coronavirus in order to go back to work, but you're separating them from the herd, therefore they are kept in standstill.

3. Imagine that 50%, or even 70% of the country has immunity. That is a catastrophic unemployment rate.

This plan is a way for Gates and company to suggest opening up the economy, but in reality keeping it completely crippled. Its another insane scam.
 

renotime

Ostrich
Gold Member
scorpion said:
My concern now is that so many people have bought into the virus scare so completely that they will be unable to admit to themselves that the entire thing was massively overblown. Rather than deal with the mental pain of realizing that not only were they suckered, but that they also reacted in a shameful and cowardly fashion, they will double down on the virus. They will demand more draconian measures and permanent changes to society, simply because these will serve to validate their feelings that the virus MUST have been a truly dangerous threat all along. To admit otherwise, to admit that you went along with voluntarily surrendering your rights and freedoms and destroying the economy simply because you were afraid of catching the cold...is simply too painful for people to bear. So they will prolong this fantasy indefinitely in order to avoid this harsh reckoning with the truth.

I don't hold it against anyone who expressed fear and concern over the virus several weeks ago. We're all human and imperfect, and these are natural human emotions when dealing with something like this. But anyone on this forum who's still pushing this virus as any kind of serious threat - much less as something that warrants these absurd national shutdowns - is completely discredited in my eyes. You are without excuse. The facts are now clear. The models were disastrously wrong. The shutdowns will end up causing multiple orders of magnitude more human suffering than the virus itself, just as the skeptics predicted would happen. And that's not even mentioning the incredible long-term damage to our civil liberties that will probably result from this.

If you got it wrong, that's ok. No one is right all the time. Just admit it and move on. Don't double down to defend the indefensible just to protect your ego.

And most of all, never forget what happens when you panic and make decisions based on fear.
You had guys on here believing millions would die and praising communists. None of them are going to admit they were wrong.

But wouldn't you want to be wrong about that?
 

Rush87

Ostrich
Rush87 said:

I don't know the psychology behind it, but for myself personally - This is the first time I've seen an issue so devoid of facts grip a population, let alone a typically forward thinking community in a way that is able to sell them with pure heresay and conjecture. I don't think rational thinking will prevail until this has died down and enough time has passed to remove the emotion from the thought.

What will be interesting is to see whether there are any lessons learnt - If not, it's will be the perfect microcosm to see why cycles continue ad nauseum, forever repeating the same mistakes.​
I posted this back on one of the early pages. For anyone who fell for the narrative, there is no shame in being wrong. All of us routinely are, all the time. But it's starting to become more apparent that when we dig our heels in, and fail to learn from our mistakes, playing the clock until people have forgotten, we end up in a situation where this same bullshit bests us, time and time again. I'm still hopeful, that at least in this small community, that we can be the exception.​
 
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