Criticisms of Coronavirus narrative and policy

DenizenJane

Woodpecker

I'd really, really like this article to be "fact-checked".

Tanzania has not reported Covid-19 cases or deaths since late April. The US embassy warned that healthcare facilities could be swamped and that poor hospital capacity could "result in life-threatening delays for emergency medical care.

In other words, the headline about surging cases is wrong.
 

r3d

Woodpecker
I just had this random thought about event 201:

The fact that it's NEVER mentioned in MSM speaks volumes.

Why wouldn't they write piece after piece about this? How much more interesting can a story get? After all it wasn't a secret or anything conspiratorial. It was out in the open and we should be thanking our leaders in business and politics for being so thoughtful.


Let's do a crazy thought experiment: Pretend our governments and leaders were wholly benevolent (like they claim) and fully transparent (like they claim).

Can you imagine the bragging and boasting that would take place if a pandemic were to hit a mere couple of months after they practiced such a scenario?
You wouldn't be able live a day without being reminded that your leaders had supernatural premonition and saved hundreds of thousands of lives by being prepared for all this.

But they don't.

Despite them always having nothing but praise for themselves, their actions and their abilities noone wants to mention that they saw this coming.

Weird, eh?

But when you leave the thought experiment it's obvious again:

They don't mention it because they don't want people thinking too hard about why it took place. And whether other events like this have taken place. And who sponsors them... and... and... and...
 

LeoniusD

Pelican
China's chief virologist:

Wu-Zunyou-678x381.jpg

Pretty much - no virus isolation, no conclusive animal studies, nothing - but let us all shut you down - obviously that ubiquitous contact tracing, apping, surveillance of the population - that is just an unfortunate side-effect and not the main goal we had all along.... The entire population is just one step away from getting chipped....




Though part of it is old news - they didn't isolate anything in march 2020, haven't isolated anything until now - even if they may claim some day to have done so as with HIV (you see this one retrovirus among the trillions of retroviruses - aka exosomes - that's HIV - and the other 999 trillion are not HIV).
 

HighTower

Robin
Orthodox
I respect Dr Kaufman but he is a social scientist not a true scientist or even a medical doctor. He was recently a guest on another show where he was dismantled by Dr Judy and really showed his lack of understanding on the subject. Be sure you are looking at this guy in a critical light and count how many times his eyes shift left-to-right in a rapid fashion. These two facts were enough for me to realize what I was actually seeing.

An unqualified man using the Dr. title to make it sound like he knows what he is talking about but actually is way in over his head. The virus cannot be isolated outside of the host cell because it cannot survive outside the host needed to replicate therefore will never be isolated and according to Kaufman, doesn't exist. Silly argument and shows his lack of knowledge on the subject.

If you bang the "not isolated so it doesn't exist" drum you better be prepared to eat crow in front of your peers.
 
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I respect Dr Kaufman but he is a social scientist not a true scientist or even a medical doctor. He was recently a guest on another show where he was dismantled by Dr Judy and really showed his lack of understanding on the subject. Be sure you are looking at this guy in a critical light and count how many times his eyes shift left-to-right in a rapid fashion. These two facts were enough for me to realize what I was actually seeing.

An unqualified man using the Dr. title to make it sound like he knows what he is talking about but actually is way in over his head. The virus cannot be isolated outside of the host cell because it cannot survive outside the host needed to replicate therefore will never be isolated and according to Kaufman, doesn't exist. Silly argument and shows his lack of knowledge on the subject.

If you bang the "not isolated so it doesn't exist" drum you better be prepared to eat crow in front of your peers.

I'd be interested to see that show with Dr Judy. So far I've found Kaufman's arguments to be quite watertight, so it would be great to hear some rebuttals. Always good to hear both sides.

Viruses might not be able to replicate outside of a host, but they definitely can exist outside of it. It seems reasonable that a virus can therefore be completely isolated, given the right conditions.

Viruses can exist outside their host, but they can’t replicate in isolation, don’t have any of the cellular ‘machinery’ of a normal cell, nor any metabolism.
https://www.open.edu/openlearn/science-maths-technology/biology/what-virus

From what I can remember, Kaufman's main argument is that unless an isolated and filtered sample is obtained, and Koch's postulates are satisfied, it's not possible to definitively establish the etiology of the disease. It seems like a reasonable expectation, given that the postulates are supposed to be widely adhered to.

For example, here's a study of the original SARS virus:

According to Koch's postulates, as modified by Rivers for viral diseases, six criteria are required to establish a virus as the cause of a disease1. The first three criteria — isolation of virus from diseased hosts, cultivation in host cells, and proof of filterability — have been met for SCV by several groups2,3,4,5. Moreover, of 96 individuals complying with the World Health Organization's definition of SARS6 in Hong Kong, 86 (90%) yielded laboratory evidence of SCV infection.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7095368/

Kaufman actually seems to have quite a solid background. Even if he didn't have the credentials, I'd probably still listen to him. The argument/insight matters more than the person at the end of the day.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman’s fame is slowly gaining momentum right now since he did a presentation in his Youtube channel regarding exosome and the possible causes of the so-called coronavirus that is causing crisis (social, mental, and economic) right now on a global scale. An undergraduate of Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) for a degree in molecular biology, Dr. Kaufman participated in different researches in universities and in some biotech companies and he also worked collecting information for AIDS cases in a health department in the Centers for Diseases Control and Prevention (CDC) position. Because of this, he earned knowledge on how epidemiologic data are collected.

After that he also studied again and become a physician assistant and then also worked at the medical university of South Carolina faculty, particularly in hematology and oncology for two years, where he got his MD. After that he then went to finish a residency program in psychiatry at Duke University, North Carolina where he also did some research. After that he also joined the faculty of the SUNY Medical University in Upstate, New York where later he ran a little research program in forensic psychiatry. He also worked in a correction center for prison system in which he did a research and also experienced being an expert witness for different legal and administrative matters. He was qualified in local federal courts and even once testified on a murder trial. He also has a start-up company where he invented a medical device, a ‘suicide-detection system’ and got it patented.

https://www.weblyf.com/2020/04/who-is-dr-andrew-kaufman-and-his-professional-background/

Education​

  • Medical University of South Carolina, Doctor of Medicine
  • Massachusetts Institute of Technology, BS in Biology
https://www.andrewkaufmanmd.com/bio-credentials/
 

Grow Bag

Kingfisher
I respect Dr Kaufman but he is a social scientist not a true scientist or even a medical doctor. He was recently a guest on another show where he was dismantled by Dr Judy and really showed his lack of understanding on the subject. Be sure you are looking at this guy in a critical light and count how many times his eyes shift left-to-right in a rapid fashion. These two facts were enough for me to realize what I was actually seeing.

An unqualified man using the Dr. title to make it sound like he knows what he is talking about but actually is way in over his head. The virus cannot be isolated outside of the host cell because it cannot survive outside the host needed to replicate therefore will never be isolated and according to Kaufman, doesn't exist. Silly argument and shows his lack of knowledge on the subject.

If you bang the "not isolated so it doesn't exist" drum you better be prepared to eat crow in front of your peers.
I never found him either convincing or ingenuous. My position is that now is not the time to start questioning whether viruses exist or any other fringe theory. It's hard enough convincing people that CV19 is not the threat they've been led to believe, so bombarding them with germ theory, etc., is counter-productive.
 
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LeoniusD

Pelican
I respect Dr Kaufman but he is a social scientist not a true scientist or even a medical doctor. He was recently a guest on another show where he was dismantled by Dr Judy and really showed his lack of understanding on the subject. Be sure you are looking at this guy in a critical light and count how many times his eyes shift left-to-right in a rapid fashion. These two facts were enough for me to realize what I was actually seeing.

An unqualified man using the Dr. title to make it sound like he knows what he is talking about but actually is way in over his head. The virus cannot be isolated outside of the host cell because it cannot survive outside the host needed to replicate therefore will never be isolated and according to Kaufman, doesn't exist. Silly argument and shows his lack of knowledge on the subject.

If you bang the "not isolated so it doesn't exist" drum you better be prepared to eat crow in front of your peers.
He has a degree in microbiology that he does not use. On top of it he is a psychiatrist - which is a full medical degree - so he has 2 degrees.

Dr Judy what? Dr Judy Mivkovits who has worked in the biolabs? My guess is that you refer to the exosome-theory vs germ-theory or even the existence of viruses. Dr Lanka was once a leading virologist and fully began to question the assumptions of the virus theory.

Being able to use lingo does not make it true as Dr. Kaufman put out his statements quite well. The big caveat with so-called whistleblowers like Mivkovits is that you are still bloody left in the super-belief of the super-virus - this time man-made, so you should still give away all your rights, your work, your freedoms - just because it's an escaped or released biolab virus. And voila - they have you by the balls either way. But this does not explain Japan, Sweden, Norway, Tanzania - or any country that did not change their healthcare system. Heck - it does not even explain why it took 6-8 months for some countries to experience even a marginal uptick in mortality - only when healthcare was significantly impacted and people did not go for heart surgeries, cancer surgeries and other routine interventions.

So yeah - believe in whatever you want. Oh - and Kaufmann has a higher education standard than Mifkovits - that woman just has experience in so-called biolabs which is essentially usually just the elaborate killing of cell-probes - occasionally you murder animals in those tests - something which also can have a multitude of reasons.
 

LeoniusD

Pelican
I never found him either convincing of ingenuous. My position is that now is not the time to start questioning whether viruses exist or any other fringe theory. It's hard enough convincing people that CV19 is not the threat they've been led to believe, so bombarding them with germ theory, etc., is counter-productive.
That is true for sure - best option is to just say that the cure is worse than the disease. Dr. Kaufmann also said a few times that he does not go into the germ-theory, virus- vs exosome-theory, because it's too far removed from the current belief-system or supposed standard of science.

Most of the time - only when people realize how often and how much the elite have been lying to them - then they may give such assumptions a chance. But by that time they usually disbelieve most things put out by the media and establishment, so it's not a big jump.
 

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member

^ Children test themselves for COVID-19 at private school in Boston

Sitting at her school desk, a pony-tailed student at South Boston Catholic Academy in Boston inserted a swab into her nostril and swirled it around, performing a test for COVID-19 on herself on Thursday (January 28).

The students are conducting self-tests every other school day, and classrooms are kept separate from each other, so that there is no mixing among students.

Swabs collected in each classroom are “pooled” into a single sample that is sent to a lab to produce a single positive or negative result for the class.

Aimed at creating a logistically streamlined and more cost-effective way to test larger groups of people, the pilot program is being offered at no cost to K-12 schools across the U.S. by biotech company Ginkgo Bioworks.

If a classroom tests positive, all of the students in that classroom would be isolated, while students from other classes would be able to continue attending school.




Edit. Re: Ginkgo Bioworks.

Article from December 21, 2018, "This $1 billion start-up backed by Bill Gates prints new DNA — and everyone from the DOD to Bayer is on board".

Forget your smartphone, the coolest piece of technology in your home might be a houseplant.

That’s according to Reshma Shetty, the COO and co-founder of Ginkgo Bioworks, a Boston-based biotech startup that bills itself as “the organism company.” Founded in 2009 by a group of MIT scientists, and recently named to the 2018 CNBC Disruptor 50 List, Ginkgo uses genetic engineering to design and print new DNA for a variety of organisms — from plants to bacteria — that can then be used for anything from killing antibiotic-resistant germs to producing artificial sweetener and cheaper perfume.

“Plants can self repair, they can self replicate, and they’re totally renewable,” Shetty tells CNBC Make It. “What we’re excited about at Ginkgo, is being able to design biology — design microbes, design plants — to be able to do what we want.”

Ginkgo’s ability to essentially reprogram the DNA of plants and other organisms — a process that Shetty, who has a Ph.D. in biological engineering, tells CNBC Make It is comparable to “writing a book or programming a piece of software” — is what makes the company so valuable, both in its work and as a business. Large companies pay Ginkgo to develop genetically-modified organisms that make all manner of products cheaper and easier to produce.

For instance, in 2017, pharmaceutical company Bayer joined Ginkgo for a $100 million partnership aimed at synthesizing microbes that would allow staple crops like corn, wheat and rice to produce their own fertilizer. By doing that, Bayer and Ginkgo have the potential to disrupt the $250 billion global fertilizer market by replacing chemical fertilizers with a cheaper, more environmentally-friendly solution. (The production of nitrogen fertilizers normally used on such crops accounts for roughly 3 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions, Ginkgo says.)

Of course, this puts Ginkgo’s work in the middle of the ongoing debate over genetically-modified foods, or GMO foods, which have the potential to make food cheaper for consumers while feeding more people, but which detractors argue can have negative effects on the environment and on consumers’ health.

“We want to be able to grow food at the same crop yields we get today but without using the polluting chemical fertilizers that we use today,” Shetty says of the goals of Ginkgo’s partnership with Bayer.

Ginkgo also genetically-engineers yeast to make rose-scented oil that smells like the real thing but costs perfume companies (like France’s Robertet, a Ginkgo partner) less than using actual roses and produces more consistent scents. It’s the first new rose oil on the market in 150 years, according to Fortune.

With yeast Ginkgo also makes artificial sweeteners for food, which are cheaper and easier to make than those derived from sources like Stevia leaves. And Ginkgo works with the US Department of Defense to custom-design bacteria for probiotics that can treat antibiotic-resistant germs.

Thanks to its ground-breaking synthetic biology projects, the company is reportedly valued at more than $1 billion after raising over $429 million in total funding from its investors, who include Cascade Investment, the investment firm owned by Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates.

But it took Ginkgo nearly a decade to get to that point.

Shetty and three of her co-founders — CEO Jason Kelly, Barry Canton, and Austin Che — each obtained a Ph.D. from MIT in 2008 and were working with professor Tom Knight (also a co-founder) on synthetic biology research projects when the group decided the best way to keep their work going beyond their Ph.D. research was to launch their own company.

“We wanted to see how far we could take it,” Shetty tells CNBC Make It. “So, we decided that a start-up was the best venue for being able to pursue our mission [and] our passion, which is to design biology.”

The group formed Ginkgo in 2009 and spent the next several years surviving off of government research grants as they fine-tuned their process of genetically engineering microbes, including building automated tools that the company uses to collect genetic information from organisms, transform cells and rewrite DNA.

This was in the early days of the financial crisis and Ginkgo had no luck attracting outside investors. Money was sometimes tight, and so the co-founders improvised. For pennies on the dollar, Ginkgo bought the incredibly expensive equipment it needed from other biotech firms that had gone out of business due to the economic downturn.

“We put together our first lab for about $150,000, which is roughly 10 to 100 [times] cheaper than what most to biology labs get built for,” Shetty tells CNBC Make It.

Ginkgo’s star began to rise in 2014, when the startup became the first-ever biotech company to get the backing of tech start-up accelerator Y Combinator (which counts the likes of Airbnb and Reddit among its past participants). “Synthetic biology is one of the fastest-growing areas of tech right now, and Ginkgo is leading the category,” Y Combinator president Sam Altman told TechCrunch in 2015.

In March 2015, Ginkgo raised $9 million from investors as part of the company’s first significant fundraising round before picking up another $45 million (from a group led by Viking Global Investors) just a few months later.

“That was incredibly exciting to us, because it meant that real people, real investors on Wall Street were valuing our technology and what it could do for the world,” Shetty says of Ginkgo’s first major financing.

That money, and the other major investments that followed, paved the way for Ginkgo’s rapid growth. The company has expanded from about 20 employees to roughly 200 over the past three years, Shetty says, with the early investments representing “the fuel you need to be able to build and launch a rocket ship.”

 
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r3d

Woodpecker
I'm still in disbelief over how incredibly naive the German population is.

I knew noone had an interest in alternate views of history and conspiracies that lead to every single war in the 20th century, because it didn't affect them (they thought).
But now that they are locked in at home, their business closed, children traumatized and bodily integrity threatened. They're STILL not willing to entertain any thought of foul play.

These criminals actually sold us a pandemic without more people dying than any other year. And the statistics are freely available.


It's mind boggling.

And when I talk to otherwise intelligent friends and say that, you'd think the reaction would be: "No way! Show me those numbers! That can't be true because that would have wide reaching implications."

Instead their reaction is: "Hm...oh well. That's weird."


edit: Is the statistic screenshot showing for you guys? I keep uploading it on imgurl and then it shows for a couple of minutes and then its shown blank for me
edit2: I just realized it's not a good screenshot when you haven't seen the talk he gives. On the left the population is divided into age groups and then he calculates what % of people in those age groups died every year. Because Germany grows by a couple of hundred thousand every year but simultaneously ages rapidly. So absolute numbers can't be used.

No age group died at a higher rate. Not even 80+ or 90+ year olds

edit3: and we have the former president 'federal office of constitutional defense' (Präsident des Bundesamtes für Verfassungsschutzes) Hans Georg-Maaßen on record confirming that
 
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HighTower

Robin
Orthodox
He has a degree in microbiology that he does not use. On top of it he is a psychiatrist - which is a full medical degree - so he has 2 degrees.

Dr Judy what? Dr Judy Mivkovits who has worked in the biolabs? My guess is that you refer to the exosome-theory vs germ-theory or even the existence of viruses. Dr Lanka was once a leading virologist and fully began to question the assumptions of the virus theory.

Being able to use lingo does not make it true as Dr. Kaufman put out his statements quite well. The big caveat with so-called whistleblowers like Mivkovits is that you are still bloody left in the super-belief of the super-virus - this time man-made, so you should still give away all your rights, your work, your freedoms - just because it's an escaped or released biolab virus. And voila - they have you by the balls either way. But this does not explain Japan, Sweden, Norway, Tanzania - or any country that did not change their healthcare system. Heck - it does not even explain why it took 6-8 months for some countries to experience even a marginal uptick in mortality - only when healthcare was significantly impacted and people did not go for heart surgeries, cancer surgeries and other routine interventions.

So yeah - believe in whatever you want. Oh - and Kaufmann has a higher education standard than Mifkovits - that woman just has experience in so-called biolabs which is essentially usually just the elaborate killing of cell-probes - occasionally you murder animals in those tests - something which also can have a multitude of reasons.
Well maybe I wasn't clear on my post so I will try to clarify. Say I were to have a degree in computer science, does that make me a software engineer? A software engineer that can challenge other software engineers who worked at the top of their field for decades on basic scientific theory? Probably not but the fact remains, you guys are taking viral advice from a psychiatrist that really shouldn't be in a position to convey such information.

Now what if I had a degree in Physical Science, does this make me an authority on anything other that I will possibly sit at the head of a table when seated with a bunch of high school graduates? Does it make me any smarter or have any more knowledge on a particular subject? Fortunately no it does not.

I stand by what I posted that you are doing a disservice to claim the virus doesn't exist and are playing right in to their "it doesn't exist" false flag.

HT
 
Well maybe I wasn't clear on my post so I will try to clarify. Say I were to have a degree in computer science, does that make me a software engineer? A software engineer that can challenge other software engineers who worked at the top of their field for decades on basic scientific theory? Probably not but the fact remains, you guys are taking viral advice from a psychiatrist that really shouldn't be in a position to convey such information.

Now what if I had a degree in Physical Science, does this make me an authority on anything other that I will possibly sit at the head of a table when seated with a bunch of high school graduates? Does it make me any smarter or have any more knowledge on a particular subject? Fortunately no it doesn't.

I stand by what I posted that you are doing a diservice to claim the virus doesn't exist and are playing right in to their "the virus doesn't exist" false flag.

HT
The problem is, even if someone has the 'appropriate' credentials, this doesn't automatically validate their argument. If we are ruthlessly logical, who a person is does not matter as much as their argument. To say otherwise is to commit an ad hominem and/or an appeal to authority fallacy.

Having the credentials does make someone more likely to be correct, simply because the chances are higher that they have broader and deeper knowledge and experience. But it does not mean that someone without any credentials cannot make useful contributions with enough self-directed study and intelligence. Take Michael Faraday for example - no formal scientific training, but made some incredible advances in physics.

Dr Ed Dutton did an excellent video about how genius scientists are more likely to be amateurs:


Science isn't meant to be an authoritarian guild. In its ideal form, it is a cold, rational discipline that advances by continually overturning currently-accepted theories to find better ones. A theory can be overturned by anyone, even your local street cleaner, if a replicable observation is made that the theory cannot account for.

The issue with science today is that it has been contaminated by corporate interests, political affiliations, and a dogmatic, cult-like mentality. Hence the replication crisis, the bias towards reductionist materialism, and the extreme hostility towards anyone publishing something that goes against the prevailing political ideology. You're more likely to find the truth on the fringes nowadays.
 

HighTower

Robin
Orthodox
All of the people you mention worked in their fields: Kaufman does and has not worked in this capacity. One should not ignore this detail because it is significant. Reading peer reviewed scientific studies and doing a detailed analysis does not do it for me. And his limitations really showed when he debated someone with real knowledge. He constantly interrupted the debate and was kicked out of the meeting as a result. Darting eyes and unable to hold a rational debate with another adult destroyed his credibility rather quickly.

All you essentially have is Dr. Kaufman's personal opinion nothing more nothing less and extensive credentials does not change this fact.

You cannot grow a retrovirus without a host cell and this is where your isolation argument stands. Or maybe I am confused?
 
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All of the people you mention worked in their fields: Kaufman does and has not worked in this capacity. One should not ignore this detail because it is significant. Reading peer reviewed scientific studies and doing a detailed analysis does not do it for me. And his limitations really showed when he debated someone with real knowledge. He constantly interrupted the debate and was kicked out of the meeting as a result. Darting eyes and unable to hold a rational debate with another adult destroyed his credibility rather quickly.

All you essentially have is Dr. Kaufman's personal opinion nothing more nothing less and extensive credentials does not change this fact.

You cannot grow a retrovirus without a host cell and this is where your isolation argument stands. Or maybe I am confused?
Not quite. What I was saying was that it is possible for a virus to survive outside of a host cell, therefore it can be isolated (in theory).

Is this the debate with Dr Judy Mikovits you're referring to?

 
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