Crypto lounge thread

Caduceus

Ostrich
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August 2022 issue of (((Fortune magazine)))



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Cynllo

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
Crypto.com accidentally transferred ETH to another exchange. Details are currently unclear, but FUD and panic selling their CRO token is abound. Biden boom aside, I'd expect this to bottom in Dec-Jan, from a historical trend and technical perspective. I bought in the two big dips in June and again now. Will probably make more purchases from here. The June crash felt like peak technical bottom, but not peak fear. Again, minus a serious economic event, I think we are close to peak fear.

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Article -


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Caduceus

Ostrich
Crypto.com accidentally transferred ETH to another exchange. Details are currently unclear, but FUD and panic selling their CRO token is abound. Biden boom aside, I'd expect this to bottom in Dec-Jan, from a historical trend and technical perspective. I bought in the two big dips in June and again now. Will probably make more purchases from here.



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Appreciate the helpful advice, but they'll block withdrawals and transfers as soon as they notice too many people trying to bail at the same time.


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I warned about this a year and a half ago in the post above. All of these alt-coins and DeFi stuff are scams. Period. They are all Ponzi schemes. Crypto itself does not generate revenue, and therefore cannot provide any return to "investors". The only returns come from new money pouring in. SBF himself basically admitted this in an interview awhile back, to the shock of his dumbfounded interviewers.

Guys really need to get over this obsession with crypto. It's a scam that preys upon greed and laziness. It's telling you that you can get rich quick. I'm telling you that there is no free lunch. If you want wealth, you should be willing to work for it. If you want to invest your money, invest in time-tested, proven assets like real estate, gold and shares of large, profitable corporations. Most importantly, invest in YOURSELF and your personal skillset, as well as your health and network of personal relationships. Focusing on these things will set you up in the long term much better than just trying to get lucky with some crypto gambling (which is all that it is).

Ok, there's my boomer post for the day.

56c.gif
Ironically Ron Paul is a fan of Bitcoin.

I agree with everything you said except that Bitcoin is not crypto. And if you dca'd Bitcoin, and self custodied it, as is the purpose, you are doing just fine right now, at worst about the same as stonks but with no counterparty risk.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Ostrich
Orthodox
Ironically Ron Paul is a fan of Bitcoin.

I agree with everything you said except that Bitcoin is not crypto. And if you dca'd Bitcoin, and self custodied it, as is the purpose, you are doing just fine right now, at worst about the same as stonks but with no counterparty risk.

Stocks are doing better. The S&P is down only 16% over the year, while Bitcoin is down 65% over the same time period. Ether is down by a similar percentage.

By comparison, gold is down only 3% over the year, and the U.S. dollar index (DXY) is up 10%.
 
Stocks are doing better. The S&P is down only 16% over the year, while Bitcoin is down 65% over the same time period. Ether is down by a similar percentage.

By comparison, gold is down only 3% over the year, and the U.S. dollar index (DXY) is up 10%.

I should have clarified the time window. Bitcoin is very volatile, over a <5 year period, you can see huge swings.

I can cherry pick gold over the past 10 years and show that you lost money.

It took something like THIRTY years for the Dow Jones to recover to parity from the black Friday crash of 1929. It took 20 years from the 1960 crash, and for much of that you were about 40% down.

This does not meaningfully address why bitcoin is still a great investment, and I believe the future, but I will address that in a reply to Scorpion's post.
 

Cynllo

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
I don't get the arguments of one vs. another. Make a decision based on your risk tolerance of what % of each you'll own and then invest. I do stocks, bonds, crypto, gold, silver, etc.

Scorpion is broadly right. But the acceptance and use of Bitcoin is skyrocketing. A lot of that is to do with its properties it has that goyim-cash, stocks and silver don't have. Primarily you can hold it yourself, easily transport it and exit your prison economy. Western countries are increasingly implementing exit taxes.


You only have one real option to deal with this - crypto.


If people are using a crypto, that's backing. And it's only going up.
 

I warned about this a year and a half ago in the post above. All of these alt-coins and DeFi stuff are scams. Period. They are all Ponzi schemes. Crypto itself does not generate revenue, and therefore cannot provide any return to "investors". The only returns come from new money pouring in. SBF himself basically admitted this in an interview awhile back, to the shock of his dumbfounded interviewers.

Guys really need to get over this obsession with crypto. It's a scam that preys upon greed and laziness. It's telling you that you can get rich quick. I'm telling you that there is no free lunch. If you want wealth, you should be willing to work for it. If you want to invest your money, invest in time-tested, proven assets like real estate, gold and shares of large, profitable corporations. Most importantly, invest in YOURSELF and your personal skillset, as well as your health and network of personal relationships. Focusing on these things will set you up in the long term much better than just trying to get lucky with some crypto gambling (which is all that it is).

Ok, there's my boomer post for the day.

56c.gif

I would first like to say that your post 1.5 years ago was written with courage (especially at the time), humility and good grace, and I appreciated it at the time even though I disagreed with you. I sincerely hope to write my rebuttal to this post in the same spirit.

First, I would like to say I'm speaking to the value of buying and holding bitcoin as a vehicle of savings over time. Not crypto - where I more or less fully agree with you. The blow also does not apply to gold.

The current investment model of stocks and real estate as investment advice has many of the same ponzi scheme qualities you mentioned. Let us look at Argentina, Lebanon, Venezuela, probably very soon much of Europe, and inevitably the USA.

If you live in these first 4 countries, over the last 30 years you played an increasingly difficult game of what to invest in. Your currency is constantly devalued and you make no appreciable gains in *general* stock investing. Real estate in most cases has lost tremendous value, and that which hasn't (such as productive farmland) requires ever increasing effort to fight an ever capricious/rapacious government trying to tax or confiscate it.

Ironically, in these systems, if you are smart/witty/callous enough, you end up doing BETTER than you would have in a "fair" system. Corruption can work extremely well in your favor once you can use it! However this process weeds out more and more of population - and shaves off more productive economic activity - until you have a true oligarchy and a broken society.

There's a total vacuum of advise from the anti-bitcoiners for a man who lives in Venezuela. What should he do with his savings? Clearly nothing, so then what should he do with his time? Steal harder and faster than the oligarchs? Grow an IQ of 180 to out-cycle the system set up against him? Organized crime? If there is any advice, it's always the same: Leave Venezuela/Lebanon etc....

Of course, "leaving" your corrupt system is also a nice little ponzi scheme advise. The ones that flee early are lucky, benefit tremendously. Eventually, you get a situation where the burden of all these people leaving overwhelms the countries they flee too, and everyone suffers.

But let's get back to the USA, where for the past 30 years, conservative investing, and real estate has for the most part kept you ahead of the game - if you started early. Sadly, even for those "early adopters" if you will, those days are fast over.

Your average stonk portfolio today will absolutely not keep up with the true costs of inflation or other inevitable financial obligations you will have. You will need an increasingly sophisticated angle to edge out 95% of everyone else to stay ahead. This will consume more and more of your time to research and require increasingly riskier bets. This is a fact. There is a reason why even conservative teachers pension funds invested in FTX. It wasn't due to greed. It was because they had to. This dynamic will not change at all under the current system. In fact it will get much, much worse. The overwhelming majority of "profitable" corporations are not creating any value, they only have regulatory capture ie. are parasites. Again, enjoy spending increasing amounts of time and effort parsing out the good from the bad. It's a full time job, which is why the finance industry has grown from 10% of the economy to about 30%.

You will also need to be increasingly sophisticated and acute to find the *right* real estate to invest in, with the *right* demographics, with the right taxes, to get ahead. I'm very glad that has worked out for you personally, and you have built up a decent portfolio. However, real estate in the US has become so obscenely financialized that it is already fast becoming another oligarch dominated ponzi. Please see the NYC real estate market - rents and all - if you need an example.

One point I 100% agree with you on, is to create value, and invest in yourself. To my knowledge absolutely no bitcoiner would disagree with that. In fact, one of the reasons why many are so into btc is the maximalist community itself has this incredibly strong work ethic.

Again, one must seperate bitcoin from "crypto". Crypto, like fiat, is centralized corrupted garbage, except on a grander scale. Bitcoin is de-centralized, open, incorruptible, scalable, salable, and constant. Bitcoin is also a proof-of-work entity (like gold). You cannot print it, you can't change the rules of how it works, and you can't lobby it for an unfair advantage.

To be perfectly honest, I would be very happy if bitcoin goes to zero. Because that would mean that the fiat system has fixed itself, and there is no longer a need for this new money, and the has once more started to build itself on an honest monetary system. Since I know that is not going to happen, I invest in bitcoin as the new system we are going towards. This transition will often times be ugly as heck, but it's inevitable. If all of us bitcoiners are wrong, and it fails - then I assure you it won't matter much anyway, because then we are all going to be like Lebanon, where 99% us will be broke and struggling like rats to get by anyway, even if you didn't invest in it.

I will close by including a great article on this recent FTX collapse, and why it's actually more indicative of the failings of the current fiat system (and with it "crypto), rather than the failing of bitcoin.

 

Cynllo

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
One point I 100% agree with you on, is to create value, and invest in yourself. To my knowledge absolutely no bitcoiner would disagree with that.

So what you're saying is you don't speak to any left-wing Bitcoiners?

Again, one must seperate bitcoin from "crypto". Crypto, like fiat, is centralized corrupted garbage, except on a grander scale.

At current, I see the best way forward is that everything that is being built on top of ETH and a few other chains, eventually gets put onto of BTC. It's increasingly hard to see why all these 1,000s of projects need their own token. It makes more sense for the vast majority of them to use Bitcoin or a stablecoin derived from Bitcoin. There is an open source project with good backing (I forget the name), which seeks to add such functionality on top of Bitcoin - smart contracts, storage, oracles etc. without any of those services having their own currency. Use of those services will be powered by Bitcoin, or a derivative. If that is the path trodden, then there will likely be big chunks of what people have built for ultimately redundant projects (such as maybe Maker, Uniswap, Chainlink etc.) would end up getting moved on top of Bitcoin. Then you have a growing market of billions / year of transactions, on top of the billions the mainly BTC or stables are used for transactions, saving in 3rd world countries, getting wealth out of prison economies, transacting outside of state control etc.

This is all very experimental. We don't know what groves that the flow of capital and data will ultimately flow in. But I think if your prognosis for Bitcoin and/or crypto is all negative, I think you're standing in the same position people who said the internet would fail stood. Most early internet concepts and businesses are gone or as good as - Lycos, Geocities, Altavista, MySpace.

In tech their have been many failures. Some of these were just ahead of their time, like the PDA. So far it looks like what has sticking power will be BTC, Lightening. And sticking concepts are stablecoins, storage, oracles, DEXs.
 

lonewolf1968

Kingfisher
Other Christian
There's a total vacuum of advise from the anti-bitcoiners for a man who lives in Venezuela. What should he do with his savings? Clearly nothing, so then what should he do with his time? Steal harder and faster than the oligarchs? Grow an IQ of 180 to out-cycle the system set up against him? Organized crime? If there is any advice, it's always the same: Leave Venezuela/Lebanon etc....
Definitely this, our colombian peso is 56% down in devaluation since 2020 and 150% down since 2015, buying and storing physical dollars unless small quantities isn't that safe and local banks don't offer usd accounts. My BTC which i bought below these levels is outperforming the colombian peso. My venezuelan friends once shared a meme I don't remember well but it was about stuffing dollars up their rectum when crossing the border, otherwise the corrupt officials would confiscate them. It would have been simpler to buy some Bitcoin for them.
 

Foolsgo1d

Peacock
This is inevitable. Crypto currencies are not going anywhere because CBDCs will replace the ones we know now. All it needed was to clear hurdles and get people used to them and then make them illegal once an incredible amount of fraud is perpetrated by groups of individuals.

Trust the central banks for your digital currencies and not some fly-by-night scam artists.

Banks win no matter what.
 

scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
It's funny, when people talk about inflation they talk primarily about the price of goods, services and rent going up. It's strange how they never consider the people who own the companies that provide those goods and services, or the landlord charging that rent. If the price of everything is going up... obviously the people who own those assets are also making more money, because they are the ones setting those higher prices! Currencies always tend to inflate over time. This is why you want to own real assets. Think of inflation as a flood, and real assets as a boat. If you don't have a boat when the flood comes, you're probably going to drown. But if you do have one, you just ride that flood up to the new high water mark. Yes, there will be volatility, but real assets always hold their value over the long term. Why? Because the benefits they provide are intrinsic to the needs of human beings - goods, services, housing. There is always demand for these things, and thus they always have value.

There's a lot of extreme blackpilling about the economy and society in general, and frankly, most of it is completely useless. If society collapses then there is literally nothing to be done, basically everyone is going to die horribly and the few who do manage to survive will wish they hadn't. You are much better off making modest preparations in regards to "collapse" scenarios (i.e. owning weapons and knowing how to use them, having a network of friends, keeping a modest supply of food on hand at all times). Converting all your money to gold or Bitcoin and trying to live on a self sufficient farm in the middle of nowhere is probably overkill, and on the off chance you're right and society collapses all around you... you're still probably going to be dead within a few years yourself. I don't really see the point, especially as Christian. I make reasonable preparations as best I can, and I trust God with the rest. I make plans as an optimist, but I pray as if judgment is just around the corner. What else can we do? No man knows the future. And so I invest for the long term, because if the time is not long then it won't matter anyway. But if God has a farther ranging timeline than it currently seems, I'll be glad to have done so.
 

fortyfive

Kingfisher
Other Christian
There's a lot of extreme blackpilling about the economy and society in general, and frankly, most of it is completely useless. If society collapses then there is literally nothing to be done, basically everyone is going to die horribly and the few who do manage to survive will wish they hadn't.

We will see the total collapse only later when things from the Book of Revelation come into play, in my opinion.
In the coming years, there will be just a managed destruction and shrinking of everything into some kind of global Chinese-style society.

Elites don't want a sudden crash, they want transformation, and luckily for them, sheeple are afraid of living ungoverned.
Living in the familiarity of the concentration camp is better than the uncertainty of life without masters. There never was and never be a mass revolt on a global scale.
When God liberated Jews from Pharaoh's control and let them out under the leadership of Moses, they didn't appreciate freedom.
Actually, they were complaining and wanted to go back to slavery. It is in human nature, this sheep's behavior.
Jesus called people sheep, for a reason. Not because He wanted to mock them, but because it is true.

Look at the covid/vax hoax. People keep dying from the jab, but they are dying obediently without making a fuss about it.
Even the death of thousands and relatives doesn't awaken the masses. The media and govt are silent about it, and the public cowardly pretends that there is nothing to see it, too.

And that non-reaction is just encouraging masters to more oppression. Another stolen election in the biggest democracy in the world, and life goes on as if nothing happened.
In the coming years, I expect a sharp increase in the system's ruthlessness.
 
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