Cutting off family

I wonder if there's a proper threshold for cutting family off of one's life.

To their credit, my parents weren't abusive or negligent, and despite being Asian/Pinoy, have respected my life choices (particularly not joining the military nor getting into med school). However, with how easily and quietly they, and the rest of my extended family have accepted totalitarianism in the name of protecting us from coronavirus, I wonder if there is any value in maintaining any contact with them besides extreme necessity. I deleted my Facebook profile permanently because I was sick of seeing them getting indoctrinated and indoctrinating others in turn.

Right now, I'm in a fork in the road deciding whether to pursue or vocation with a Catholic Traditionalist group (the SSPX) or not. My mom concern-trolled me that she was worried that I was doing so out of anger or out of a sense of rebellion from the mainstream Catholic Church.

From a normie's point of view (and I'd use their POV as a barometer of a normie's) I would be considered a radical; but I don't know how, after getting redpilled, you could see the way of the world and conclude "this is OK."

Then again I've been trying, and failing, to get them to stop calling me daily for the past fourteen years. I'm not sure what to do.
 

EndlessGravity

Kingfisher
You should try to avoid cutting off family, especially at this point in time. These are the people you know best and hypothetically can trust most. They might complain and argue when you need help but most people will pretend they're going to show up then they won't. Better a concern troll that will bail you out then a sweet-talker that won't show up.

Limit interactions, be a guidepost for them, remain calm, and wait.

Unless you think they'll get you killed when SHTF. I cut off anyone who meets that criteria.
 

kel

Pelican
It's very tough, but I'd recommend you try to not "cut off" family. When you're at Thanksgiving dinner or whatever do your best to keep conversation away from things that might spiral, keep your relationship in the relatively safe and loving zone as much as possible. Of course, there's always a point where someone's toxicity is just too much to bear and is poisoning your life and the lives of those around you, but be careful before you come to that conclusion. Another problem with the state of the world, which you rightly deride, is that it's turned everyone into a political unit or culture war soldier, fanatically dedicated to their team. We should be able to disagree to some extent but still share core values and peacefully co-exist.
 

FactusIRX

Woodpecker
I agree that you shouldn't cut off your family. You can limit your interactions with them, but the Bible is pretty clear that you are to respect, love, and forgive them. I have dysfunctional parents, but I still love and pray for them. Also, for your career or calling, pray to God for guidance. He will give the signs on which way is best for you to proceed, according to His plan.
 

RoadKill

Sparrow
You don't have to cut off family, but you can, and should, establish boundaries. They can call all they want but you don't have to pick up the phone either. You're an adult. You don't have to tell them every decision you make and who you hang out with.

My best friend has a toxic relationship with his mother and he constantly has to take a break from her from time to time.

I only cut off family if they are takers, users, and abusers. Other than that, I draw clear boundaries and choose what and what not to share with my family. I have no active conflicts with my sister, brother or mother. Father died a few years ago. I had no feelings for my father, but I didn't hate him either.

RK
 
To their credit, my parents weren't abusive or negligent, and despite being Asian/Pinoy, have respected my life choices (particularly not joining the military nor getting into med school).
Honor thy father and mother is a not an option, it's a commandment. Perhaps the hardest for many of us to follow. I struggle with this with my marxist mother who destroyed our family by adapting that crazy, wicked ideology.
You need not get in useless arguments, you need not follow their bad advice, but you should try to honor them. You best know what that means.

I draw clear boundaries and choose what and what not to share with my family
^This!
 

Elipe

Woodpecker
Right now, I'm in a fork in the road deciding whether to pursue or vocation with a Catholic Traditionalist group (the SSPX) or not. My mom concern-trolled me that she was worried that I was doing so out of anger or out of a sense of rebellion from the mainstream Catholic Church.

Your mom is being a mother, and it does sound like she still loves you and cares for you, but like you said, from her POV it probably does look like you're going down a "radical" path. So what you need to do here is not act like a stereotypical radical. I'm not talking about not going through with the SSPX thing, but about how you present yourself before your parents. Don't get angry, don't raise your voice with them, but calmly go about doing what you are doing, regardless of what they say. It is your life to live, not theirs. And whatever you do, steer discussion away from sensitive issues. If they start talking about sensitive issues, you tell them, straight up, "I am not comfortable discussing this topic. I would like to talk about something else."

If they persist to the point of haranguing you, then you stop the conversation right there. If you're in person, walk away abruptly and go home. If you're on the phone, hang up on them abruptly. They will eventually get the message, that they should not talk about those things with you. But this isn't cutting them off - you will still speak with them, you will still see them, but this is about communicating to them that you have the ability and willpower to walk away from them when they are conducting themselves poorly with you.

But it is vital you keep your cool. When normies think radicals, they're thinking Muslim radicals that go around shooting their AK-47s into the air while shouting DEATH TO AMERICA! They're not thinking of a cool-headed, rational sounding person.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
I wonder if there's a proper threshold for cutting family off of one's life.

To their credit, my parents weren't abusive or negligent, and despite being Asian/Pinoy, have respected my life choices (particularly not joining the military nor getting into med school). However, with how easily and quietly they, and the rest of my extended family have accepted totalitarianism in the name of protecting us from coronavirus, I wonder if there is any value in maintaining any contact with them besides extreme necessity. I deleted my Facebook profile permanently because I was sick of seeing them getting indoctrinated and indoctrinating others in turn.

Right now, I'm in a fork in the road deciding whether to pursue or vocation with a Catholic Traditionalist group (the SSPX) or not. My mom concern-trolled me that she was worried that I was doing so out of anger or out of a sense of rebellion from the mainstream Catholic Church.

From a normie's point of view (and I'd use their POV as a barometer of a normie's) I would be considered a radical; but I don't know how, after getting redpilled, you could see the way of the world and conclude "this is OK."

Then again I've been trying, and failing, to get them to stop calling me daily for the past fourteen years. I'm not sure what to do.

Sounds like you're rebelling against your parents and you don't value them.
As someone whose lost parents, I urge you to value your family and put aside your opinions.
Nobody has 100% ideological conformance with their parents.

When they stop calling you all the time you'll miss it, trust me. It's good to have someone worry about you.
 
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Elipe

Woodpecker
Sounds like you're rebelling against your parents and you don't value them.
As someone whose lost parents, I urge you to value your family over your ideology.
I'm sorry to hear about your parents, but I do want to remind you that Jesus did come to divide families. He said that on account of Him, fathers would be separated from their sons and brother turned against brother.

But I think part of what is going on here, what Jesus is referring to, has more to do with the non-Christian members of the family doing the dividing, more than the Christian members are. If we have to choose between Jesus or our family, we absolutely should reject our family. But of course, if you have the option of keeping both - if you can make peace with your family with their full awareness and acceptance or tolerance of your relationship with Christ - that is highly encouraged.

And that is the advice I am trying to give Peter here. I am advising that he work on repairing and maintaining his familial relationships, by altering the parameters of these relationships such that love and affection can still be shared. But, if your family cannot share a relationship with you without dragging the relationship over frictional surfaces while you're trying to steer the relationship away from those surfaces, then it may be time to admit that the relationship just isn't working out.

But I'd like to see Peter build a good relationship with his family that doesn't compromise his relationship with the Lord.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
I'm sorry to hear about your parents, but I do want to remind you that Jesus did come to divide families. He said that on account of Him, fathers would be separated from their sons and brother turned against brother.

But I think part of what is going on here, what Jesus is referring to, has more to do with the non-Christian members of the family doing the dividing, more than the Christian members are. If we have to choose between Jesus or our family, we absolutely should reject our family. But of course, if you have the option of keeping both - if you can make peace with your family with their full awareness and acceptance or tolerance of your relationship with Christ - that is highly encouraged.

And that is the advice I am trying to give Peter here. I am advising that he work on repairing and maintaining his familial relationships, by altering the parameters of these relationships such that love and affection can still be shared. But, if your family cannot share a relationship with you without dragging the relationship over frictional surfaces while you're trying to steer the relationship away from those surfaces, then it may be time to admit that the relationship just isn't working out.

But I'd like to see Peter build a good relationship with his family that doesn't compromise his relationship with the Lord.

Um, the 5th commandment dude?
Honour thy father and thy mother.
 

Elipe

Woodpecker
Um, the 5th commandment dude?
Honour thy father and thy mother.
So if your father breaks into your house and starts slapping you around, you wouldn't kick him out of your house and refuse to speak with him until he behaves himself?

If your father had a drug problem, you wouldn't try to stop that and get him help?

You don't honor somebody by enabling their bad behavior.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
So if your father breaks into your house and starts slapping you around, you wouldn't kick him out of your house and refuse to speak with him until he behaves himself?

If your father had a drug problem, you wouldn't try to stop that and get him help?

You don't honor somebody by enabling their bad behavior.

Yeah, but that's not this situation.
He said there is no abuse or neglect.

I come from abuse and neglect (teen runaway) and I still didn't cut them off.
Cutting off parents is communist. This is what left wingers do. They hold grudges against parents and cut off contact even when they're older and their parents have no impact on their lives anymore.

Ones relationship with their parents is directly proportional to their politics and conservatism.
 

Elipe

Woodpecker
Yeah, but that's not this situation.
He said there is no abuse or neglect.
What is this situation, then? And why the disclaimer about there being no abuse or neglect? Does the 5th commandment tell you to Honor thy father and mother, except when they abuse or neglect you?

No, it doesn't. And abuse or not, bad behavior is still bad behavior, and damaging to one's relationship with others. It is dishonorable to not seek a better relationship with your parents.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
What is this situation, then? And why the disclaimer about there being no abuse or neglect? Does the 5th commandment tell you to Honor thy father and mother, except when they abuse or neglect you?

No, it doesn't. And abuse or not, bad behavior is still bad behavior, and damaging to one's relationship with others. It is dishonorable to not seek a better relationship with your parents.

You should never cut your parents off, it doesn't matter if you're a stone cold atheist. So the religious interpretations don't really matter to me.
The only situation you should cut your parents off is when there is some kind of physical threat to your existence (like, your parent is physically or sexually abusive). But the OP is not in this situation.

Blood is thicker than water. Sometimes you have to suck up the differences to sooth over family relations, that's everyones individual responsibility. It's worth it trust me.

When you're down and out, living in a ditch, whose going to be your first call?

Also, the first sign someone is in a cult is they cut off their family.
I'd seriously question someone's church or political groupings if they're cutting off their family for it.
Ideology is not more important than family.
 

Elipe

Woodpecker
Also, the first sign someone is in a cult is they cut off their family.
I'd seriously question someone's church or political groupings if they're cutting off their family for it.
Ideology is not more important than family.
Then you're questioning Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Matthew 10:34-39 said:
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.“
Congrats, you've just called a lot of people on this forum cultists. And you've missed the entire damn point of what I'm saying.
 
I cooled down a bit.

Mom contacted my aunt who--while not a Trad like I am--helpef explain a lot of problems in the church. I think my problem is that while I hold my beliefs passionately, I can't articulate them well. Then again, I feel everyone on the right these days has a siege mentality given how close the s___ is to hitting the fan.

You are right--it makes no sense to cut off my only natural support in this world while they are still alive. I have been praying for them daily but I was so blindsided by all my other sins that I kind of forgot.

The other thing is although others are more tolerant of following the BS rules than I am, my mother doesn't deserve to be an emotional punching bag for my rants.
 

RoadKill

Sparrow
American culture can sometimes be a blessing and a curse. I did join the military, but did so to find my own way and find out who I was. As a man who grew up in a broken home, I developed coping mechanisms to deal with being volleyed back and forth as a child. One of those coping mechanisms was to learn to be alone and have no friends. I can be alone and be just fine.

Don't get me wrong, I am a social person, but I'm not attached to people except my kids. I never call(ed) my parents. I might talk to them three or four times a year since I moved out nearly 30 years ago. My dad died about 4 years ago and nothing in my daily life changed at all. I was actually installing a machine at a customer site when it happened (it happened on the first day there) and they didn't know my dad died until I told them that I couldn't extend my stay to fix the machine because I had to attend my father's funeral.

I think it's good that your parents talk to you as much as they do. Don't take it for granted. I'll never know what that feels like. I don't hate them. I do love my momma. I did like the three years she lived with me up until a week ago when she moved in with my aunt.

As far as facebook goes, I was on it until I realized it was stupid, so I deleted my account. I only recently reactivated it to follow some local parenting groups that discuss anti-christian school policy and the brainwashing of our kids. I have no friends and family on my facebook account. I don't want to hate everyone I know or am related to.

My daughter is 24 years old now and we have a fantastic relationship. I don't call her every day. Maybe once a week or two. She invites me to come to her house for lunch and watch a movie. Recently, we watched Chernobyl on Hulu. We had a great time and we truly enjoy each other's company. She respects my wisdom and seeks my counsel when it matters. I recently helped her and her husband purchase their first home. That was really special.

Have a little patience with your parents. They are being lied to. Don't lash out either. It will only deteriorate the relationship. Find more constructive ways to deal with your emotions. Hit the gym. That's what I did.

Good luck and GOD bless.

RK
 
So if your father breaks into your house and starts slapping you around, you wouldn't kick him out of your house and refuse to speak with him until he behaves himself?

If your father had a drug problem, you wouldn't try to stop that and get him help?

You don't honor somebody by enabling their bad behavior.
Exactly - there are prodigal sons - don't we admire the father - but sometimes, especially after modernism - there are prodigal parents.
There is an excellent stoic lecture about this:
Lecture XVI: Must one obey one’s parents under all circumstances?
 
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Elipe

Woodpecker
There is an excellent stoic lecture about this:
Lecture XVI: Must one obey one’s parents under all circumstances?
I would say that obeying and honoring are two different concepts, and this lecture conflates the two, but excellent lecture otherwise. Indeed, honoring your parents is not the same thing as obeying their words all the time. To honor somebody is to hold them in great respect, and to hold one in respect, you should seek that which is good for them. It is honoring to a drug addict to be rescued from his addiction, even above his protestations, and dishonoring to a drug addict to offer him drugs, even if he asks for them.

As for honor when it comes to matters of obedience to parents, this lecture nails it. Is it honorable for a man to take poison if his father commands it? How can it be honorable to obey an evil order? For that man to follow his father's destructive order, that would be to honor the evil in his father. But evil does not warrant honor in any form or manner, and should be dishonored, for evil is dishonorable by nature. Therefore, for that man to honor his father, he should disobey that command, for then this honors the good in his father, which comes from God.

We obey God, not for the sake of obedience itself, but because God is the author of Good, and the source and sink of all honor. When you honor your father and your mother, you honor God through them. Obedience to God, therefore, follows from a place of giving honor to where it is due, for all honor must end up with God. We obey God because God, by His own nature and by contrast with our nature, is worthy of our obedience. Like gravity, in which up must come down, like thermodynamics, where hot moves to cold, and like electricity, where negative moves to positive, so too honor must go from the lesser to the greater.
 

barrythecyborg

Woodpecker
... However, with how easily and quietly they, and the rest of my extended family have accepted totalitarianism in the name of protecting us from coronavirus...

Yeah, I have an issue with this too at the moment OP. My brother has gotten really angry a couple of times when I try and tell him what's going on. It's weird.

He even accused me of having a mental health problem)) (which I might, but nothing to do with the conspiracy))

My father is the same. Reads the paper every morning, cover to cover, and even though I've sent him links to things that I can't see how anyone can deny, he does.

Now he condescendingly educates me about the truth (as delivered by the BBC), and dismisses anything else as 'ridiculous!' (until the same is reported as news by The Times, then it becomes instant fact).

It's brutal.

But it is what it is, and it's not gonna change.

Now I just ask them to plan for the worst, tell them what 'millions of people' think, and leave it there.

I warned them, we're all adults, not worth arguing about.

Hopefully everything will come out anyway, and then I'll never let it go (joke).

I found it useful (in general, not just family), to realize you don't need everyone to wake up. The tipping point is like 10%, and most people will never accept it. It's pointless to try, and all you'll do is anger them... but it doesn't matter. Just worry about those open minded enough to listen.

Also I really do believe the masses are under some kind of hypnosis. That's why you can show them CRAZY shit (like the opening ceremony for the 2012 olympics) and they won't blink.

People aren't total morons, they've just been lied to for long enough to act like it.

On a separate issue, I've had a pretty difficult relationship with my father.

I've found boundaries are the key.

I'll have a beer with him anytime, but there's an unspoken line, and if it's breached, I know I can just make my excuses and leave.

Cutting off is pretty extreme.
 
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