Rufus's lectures are remarkably in line with traditional Christian teaching on a lot of things- he even objects to abortion which was common in ancient Rome.
Cutting off family
- Thread starter Chains of Peter
- Start date
I did this 2 decades ago. Here's my advice/2 cents:
You do what you feel you need to do to feel better about yourself.
If a relationship is making one or both people worse, then it's by definition toxic. If you have an issue with how they're treating you, and you attempted to communicate your concerns and they were not considered, then you shouldn't feel guilty about the next step.
I wrote a no-contact letter to an abusive parent and siblings. Unlike their criticisms of me, I kept mine quite neutral: I said that they often complained about me that I wasn't living my life the way they thought I should and I didn't like how they behaved either so I was not going to communicate with them anymore.
It took 10 years for them to 'get' that I meant that. They eventually reached out to me (indirectly, of course) and without direct acknowledgement, simply behaved better as if nothing had happened. They want to live in that delusion, so be it. IMO, a delusion is harder to maintain than the truth so that's their problem.
After writing that letter, I felt better about myself. It was as if a weight was lifted off my shoulders. I was no longer responsible for trying to manage an out of control bull-in-a-china-shop or a bunch of brats at chuck-e-cheeses. If they misbehave (and they have a few times since then), I drop them hints that they're on shaky ground and they quietly clean their act up. I feel like I have power over how people treat me and this extends even against groups of people (which they were.)
Good luck with whatever path you choose.
If there's ever a massive catastrophe, our close family will be one of the only humans who risk go in harms way to ensure our safety; there's not too many people who would die for us other than our family. This is the way The Creator programmed us (the same way mother animals die to protect their babies).
Get new phone number(s) and switch on your mummy phone using the old number only once a week.
By "vocation" I assume you mean marriage since you posted under "Marriage and family life".
Gen 2:24: "Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they shall be two in one flesh."
Summa Theologica II-II q. 189 a. 6 co.:
St. Thomas Aquinas said:
Asian parents have a tendency to be controlling in this sense when it comes to adult children. Some more, some less.
@Chains of Peter what did you end up doing?
powertower
Pigeon
I have been journaling and praying about this decision ever since I became a father. My parents were good parents growing up, but their profession (social workers, both of them) put them on the vanguard of the leftwing and their politics have demonstrably lead to material and spiritual hardship in their lives as well spiritual hardship in my own (which lead me to Jesus so in a way I owe them). We have fought about politics extensively, with the net result being a sort of don't ask don't tell policy.
My wife gave birth to our first child days before the Floyd riots kicked off. Until then I was aware of anti-white ideology of privilege, oppression and equity but it wasn't personal like it is once you have a child in the world. The racial "equity" policies being pushed by the Biden admin are making it more difficult to be neutral because neutrality is conflated with racism, bigotry and evil.
On one hand it is very important for a child to know their grandparents and vice versa. It gives everyone anchors to their familial line, the past and future. On the other hand I don't want my parents, who are equity truthers, to psychologically abuse my child and hamstring them with the belief that their skin color makes them evil and worth less than someone with more melanin. I don't want them to impose their views that my child needs to step back and let other people excel in their place.
The grandparent is a trusted familial individual filled with wisdom. My parents will exert some influence on my children especially because we live close. If we lived farther and saw them twice a year it would be different. If their politics wasn't such a large part of their identity it would be different. If they didn't feel like their utopian ends justified the means it would be different.
This is truly tearing me up inside and I am unsure of how to proceed.
My wife gave birth to our first child days before the Floyd riots kicked off. Until then I was aware of anti-white ideology of privilege, oppression and equity but it wasn't personal like it is once you have a child in the world. The racial "equity" policies being pushed by the Biden admin are making it more difficult to be neutral because neutrality is conflated with racism, bigotry and evil.
On one hand it is very important for a child to know their grandparents and vice versa. It gives everyone anchors to their familial line, the past and future. On the other hand I don't want my parents, who are equity truthers, to psychologically abuse my child and hamstring them with the belief that their skin color makes them evil and worth less than someone with more melanin. I don't want them to impose their views that my child needs to step back and let other people excel in their place.
The grandparent is a trusted familial individual filled with wisdom. My parents will exert some influence on my children especially because we live close. If we lived farther and saw them twice a year it would be different. If their politics wasn't such a large part of their identity it would be different. If they didn't feel like their utopian ends justified the means it would be different.
This is truly tearing me up inside and I am unsure of how to proceed.
Some tendencies are probably just part of the collective unconscious, the one which pops to mind regarding what you observe is denial, but there is another I often think of, not so relevant here though, socialism
I witnessed the former in my own family and it was cause among other things for some measure of excommunication.
At one extreme you have the normie, who will not believe anything other than the BBC and at the other extreme a tin foil hat wearer who is paranoid and deeply into and obsessed by every possibly conspiracy theory. You don't want to be the latter either, not everything on the BBC is lies. But still, I can't handle the lying MSM, but it simply must be that denial is an illogical human behaviour which we will keep encountering.
Socialism also is one of these things that will probably keep coming back in some form, we just have to catch it each time before it wreaks havoc.
The OP wrote:
You may have to change your phone number and not give them the new one, or as someone else wrote, keep the old number for just them but leave it on silent and only call them once every four or seven days. Doing this is not cutting off your family. It does not sound healthy what is happening, but truly cutting off is when you don't speak for years and don't care if they die, so you could take some measures but still be a long way off from cutting them off. It is kind of sad to truly cut off one's family so I hope you can just moderate them so they can stay in your life in a less troublesome way.
You owe your parents the honor and love that the 5th Commandment requires of you. However, this honor does not translate to the complete requirement to yield to their every decision. Cutting off your family is extreme, especially when they do exercise concern for you. You should keep regular communication with them but daily is excessive. You need to just establish some good boundaries where you can render them appropriate honor while also living your life as God wants you to live.
Under these circumstances, I think it would be sinful to cut them off.
Under these circumstances, I think it would be sinful to cut them off.
Honestly i've long thought one of the negatives of modern life is that with all the communicati.n tech you cant remove yourself from familial life without making a massive song and dance about it.
Only a decade or two ago, if you moved abroad, communication would be restricted to letters or brief telephone conversations every few months due to prohibitive cost.
Now you can move away, want a clean break, focus on your own girl & family, and there's still the whatsapp messages, the emails the skype calls etc.
My parents are decent people, but they separated years ago, i was raised by mother, moved around a lot, was all a bit of a mess. I've felt numerous times a lack of loyalty, and yet have let things go as i've long felt life's too short, what's the point. But nowadays i see that as being broadly negative as it means ultimately i've put up with negativity from step-parents, of whom the loyalties of both parents seem stronger than with me throughout my childhood & beyond.
My brother has proven himself to be very snide over the years towards me. He married an awful, quite frankly toxic woman. I realised with him that our relationship is now toxic. He treats me with zero respect, and at times is sneeringly contemptous. Life's too short for it all. Him i can drop totally and dont feel i owe anything at this point.
With elderly parents it's different. The waters gone under the bridge, there's no point bringing up old issues. Least i dont really see there is. What can be gained? All seems egotistical, self vindication.
In an ideal world moving abroad would mean you wouldnt need to deal with stuff like this, but how do you make a clean break without creating a huge issue, and hurting their feelings.
Not that long ago, it was all a case of flying the nest and leaving the crap behind, now it just follows you around.
Only a decade or two ago, if you moved abroad, communication would be restricted to letters or brief telephone conversations every few months due to prohibitive cost.
Now you can move away, want a clean break, focus on your own girl & family, and there's still the whatsapp messages, the emails the skype calls etc.
My parents are decent people, but they separated years ago, i was raised by mother, moved around a lot, was all a bit of a mess. I've felt numerous times a lack of loyalty, and yet have let things go as i've long felt life's too short, what's the point. But nowadays i see that as being broadly negative as it means ultimately i've put up with negativity from step-parents, of whom the loyalties of both parents seem stronger than with me throughout my childhood & beyond.
My brother has proven himself to be very snide over the years towards me. He married an awful, quite frankly toxic woman. I realised with him that our relationship is now toxic. He treats me with zero respect, and at times is sneeringly contemptous. Life's too short for it all. Him i can drop totally and dont feel i owe anything at this point.
With elderly parents it's different. The waters gone under the bridge, there's no point bringing up old issues. Least i dont really see there is. What can be gained? All seems egotistical, self vindication.
In an ideal world moving abroad would mean you wouldnt need to deal with stuff like this, but how do you make a clean break without creating a huge issue, and hurting their feelings.
Not that long ago, it was all a case of flying the nest and leaving the crap behind, now it just follows you around.
Sorry for the late reply. We still talk every day. My mom is getting the DeathVaxx, which means all of my concerns have fallen on deaf ears. Then again, I can't talk about anything VirusRegime related without sounding ranty, so there was no chance I would get through to her.
They are aware of my desire to move out of California and buy some land and a home, but don't realize I want to be as far away from Blue America as possible. (I'm considering West Oklahoma). I'll have a space prepared for them if they so choose to follow, but their need to stick close to extended family is what's confining them to the West Coast.
From your Pinoy background I can see why your family ties are so close, but sometimes we can only honor our parents by not being with them. It is something my priest told me regarding toxic family ties. I cut ties to my family. It was very hard, emotionally the toughest thing I had to do, and it was for the best of all. You have to choose for yourself, but don't feel obligated to entertain relations which drain your very life energy.
MusicForThePiano
Pelican
From the gospel of Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household."
You do not cut off any one in your family. They cut themselves off from our Lord, Savior, King, and Master Jesus Christ with their wayward beliefs and actions contrary to redemption and salvation, and in doing so cut themselves off from you. It is hard to 'let go' of family, feeling morose about the whole separation thing... This is similar to Dante feeling sorry for the souls of the damned, but his guide Virgil ever so quickly corrects him on this grave mistake: "There is no place for pity here. Who is more arrogant within his soul, who is more impious than one who dares to sorrow at God’s judgment?” Canto XX.
It will be the judgment of God whether any one of us makes it into the Kingdom, and no one here can truly be in tune with God if they are to question that will, even internally and unspoken.
You do not cut off any one in your family. They cut themselves off from our Lord, Savior, King, and Master Jesus Christ with their wayward beliefs and actions contrary to redemption and salvation, and in doing so cut themselves off from you. It is hard to 'let go' of family, feeling morose about the whole separation thing... This is similar to Dante feeling sorry for the souls of the damned, but his guide Virgil ever so quickly corrects him on this grave mistake: "There is no place for pity here. Who is more arrogant within his soul, who is more impious than one who dares to sorrow at God’s judgment?” Canto XX.
It will be the judgment of God whether any one of us makes it into the Kingdom, and no one here can truly be in tune with God if they are to question that will, even internally and unspoken.
At times I thought of doing so with my Father. Glad I didn't. We reconciled decades ago. We have an excellent relationship now.
Now for some of my extended family: Cousins with scary mental issues (one was recommended to be instituionalized at one point) that I got saddled with as a kid when they visited. That part of the family I have nothing to do with.
Now for some of my extended family: Cousins with scary mental issues (one was recommended to be instituionalized at one point) that I got saddled with as a kid when they visited. That part of the family I have nothing to do with.
My advice to @Chains of Peter :
As a person who has been cutting off from parents for almost two years because I was holding a grudge at them and with a brother who has cut off every links (almost) - ( In hindsight and now having kids , it seems like I can understand the why's they acted like this ) I suggest that you keep a minimal regular contact. Here are practical points:
As a person who has been cutting off from parents for almost two years because I was holding a grudge at them and with a brother who has cut off every links (almost) - ( In hindsight and now having kids , it seems like I can understand the why's they acted like this ) I suggest that you keep a minimal regular contact. Here are practical points:
- Call them once a week for one hour. Try to make it a routine. Say that "it s great if we can call each other every Friday at 7pm" so you will kind of let them accept to play by your rules instead of them pestering you and you escaping. Ask how is their health , ask about if they still say hi to the neighbor , ask about what they are cooking , ask something related to your father's hobby , make it sound like you re actually calling because you care about them. At times you can say things which they don't know , such as , "remember my friend i used to play with when i was 12 and who lived down our street ? He moved to Ecuador , he got married etc" Try to use the time to not center the talk about yourself too much. Especially if you have nothing to say to them , or if you do not want to share your private life with them.
- Do not react emotionally to things you think can add fuel to the fire. I guess about coronavirus , don't tell them that they are stupid sheep who will take the DeathVaxx. Tell them that they are adults , and that if they want the vaccine , it s probably because they have a good reason , and if they want to force their opinions on you , just say "yeah i will see , im still thinking" , " im weighting the pros and cons" , and quickly change topic to something they dont care about , such as your latest purchase or the last book you have read , etc etc. It is important to not convey negativity and defiance when you talk to your parents. Even if you hate them for legit reasons.
- Not every parents are mature enough to see their kids leaving and having radically different thoughts and habits than their own.It seems to be the case with your parents. They probably are talking a lot together to "make you come back to them". This stress is very unhealthy for them at their age and can lead to a permanent state of tensions , even if you come back to them. Try to give them the impression that they are dominating the discussion , and just throw a few "yeah , yeah you re right" , " yeah it must not be easy for you , I understand" . With age they basically need support , more than anything else. Especially the mother.
- Try to care about symbolic things such as wedding birthday and birthdays. Make a little present ( should it be by the post) as a surprise , try to show that you know what makes them happy , call them and say that you don't have time now but just want to take a minute to wish happy birthday ... What is done is done , and just the same way that you have to accept that your life might not be as great as you could imagine it , you cannot choose your parents.
So try to build some sort of "minimal service" routine coupled with a consensual approach.
My father and I do not get along. He is a raging liberal, and weak in his convictions, which I cannot stand. That said, I try to honor my mother and Father as best I can, according to my faith, So I still call and keep it civil. If he starts something, I will tell him he is full of it, and I don’t feel coy in telling him he is wrong.
Usually. But if the relationship is toxic. Like how he/she beat one black and blue. And did other forms of abuse while one is under their care.
Or the sibling always ends up abusing you then its not good.