Dating coach claims that women go crazy at 26, and are only wifeable after quarter life crisis

GibsMeDat

Sparrow
Video summary:

Women who enter an LTR in their early 20s tend to have a slut phase at 26 (ostensibly proven by his "statistics")

Women have a fear of missing out (FOMO) and thus should only be wifed up after they have "explored" their sexuality

This sounds pretty defeatist to me. Or a very secular way of looking at things
 

Speculation

Kingfisher
If I was going to "steelman" this and prop up his argument I would say that its not a good idea to wife up someone whose personality isn't fully developed, which would happen around mid 20's. I pretty much agree with that, but there's nothing wrong with starting a relationship with a virgin in her late teens and not marrying her until she has finished self actualizing.

If you're being honest there are a huge amount of breakups in people's early 20's and its because they are still figuring out who they are and who they want to be. Often this is completely different to who they thought they were in their teens.
 

Waverer

Robin
Taking a 27 year old on lots of romantic dinner dates before finally sleeping with her - and then maybe wife-ing her up a couple of years later - isn't so appealing if you suspect she was blowing strangers in night club toilets six months before you met.

His recommendation actually makes sense for men with no sense of sexual jealousy about his girlfriend or wife's sexual history. For the rest of us, it's more like a warning.

[For anyone who doesn't have the inclination to spend 15mins watching his video, he's like most people on YouTube in that he's perfectly comprehensible at 2.0x the normal speed if you fiddle with the speed settings.]
 

Isaac Jordan

Kingfisher
Gold Member
If I was going to "steelman" this and prop up his argument I would say that its not a good idea to wife up someone whose personality isn't fully developed, which would happen around mid 20's. I pretty much agree with that, but there's nothing wrong with starting a relationship with a virgin in her late teens and not marrying her until she has finished self actualizing.

If you're being honest there are a huge amount of breakups in people's early 20's and its because they are still figuring out who they are and who they want to be. Often this is completely different to who they thought they were in their teens.

First of all, I'm a big fan of "steelmanning" arguments, glad to see this trending more as of late. You'll do your best thinking when you give your opposition's arguments the strongest defense you can muster.

Second (and this isn't anything new, just re-stating what we all already know), even if you're right (and I do agree with you for the most part), this still leaves most Western men in a Catch-22:

Date a girl < 25 years old: subject to her capricious whims, raging hormones and ever-changing personality

Date a girl > 25 years old: deal with alpha widows, previous sexual trauma, potential STDs, tons of emotional baggage and mental instability (not to mention wasted years of fertility and higher likelihood of birth defects once you get past 30)

In the modern dating environment where everyone is encouraged to follow their feelz, it's absurd to expect women (outside the most stringent of protective circumstances, like a red pill father who refuses to pay for college and does his best to arrange potential suitors at 18, etc.) to have the self-awareness and control to abstain from the temptation and ecstasy of a laissez faire sexual marketplace.

We really should pair people off around 18-22 (and ban divorce except in the most extreme of circumstances)...this defect-defect disequilibrium doesn't seem to have any mechanism by which we can expect it to reset itself any time soon.
 

Waverer

Robin
First of all, I'm a big fan of "steelmanning" arguments, glad to see this trending more as of late. You'll do your best thinking when you give your opposition's arguments the strongest defense you can muster.

Good point, although I find it annoying when you say "Look at what X is saying - this is nonsense" and then they rework the argument completely into something far more sensible as if you've failed to spot a subtle point that was never there.

Second (and this isn't anything new, just re-stating what we all already know), even if you're right (and I do agree with you for the most part), this still leaves most Western men in a Catch-22:

Date a girl < 25 years old: subject to her capricious whims, raging hormones and ever-changing personality

Date a girl > 25 years old: deal with alpha widows, previous sexual trauma, potential STDs, tons of emotional baggage and mental instability (not to mention wasted years of fertility and higher likelihood of birth defects once you get past 30)

Yeah, he seems to be saying that by dating women older than 26 you can avoid all the first set of problems - while being utterly oblivious to the second set.
 
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gework

Ostrich
Gold Member
We really should pair people off around 18-22 (and ban divorce except in the most extreme of circumstances)...this defect-defect disequilibrium doesn't seem to have any mechanism by which we can expect it to reset itself any time soon.

I agree. If you marry once and it was a mistake, you have show you can't do your best to right mistakes, but walk away. Chances are another marriage will not be much better.

As noted the teen-25 bracket presents hurdles in that the woman is still developing. But we already have the blueprint for vast inter-generational sustaining relationships. There shouldn't be so much that they have to develop that they can now longer communicate with their spouse. And the 25+ bracket presents hurdles in women that have lost or have a reduced ability to engage in life-long marriage.

The solution to this was that people couldn't divorce and had to make the best of it. People vary in their moral quality and are likely to end up with someone with a similar moral quality. White knights are quick to run to the defence of any woman who cries of trouble in her marriage, but do not consider women's part in such marriages' problems'; or womens' own part in the considerable female-on-male domestic violence. The daughter of moral parents would never have facilitated such a marriage.

So with this said, pairing people off 18-22, with parental guidance from both parties and enforcement of the agreement by society is superior, over letting women stew for a few years, let their hormone get the better of them and produce 1-2% more births out of wedlock.

This guy is right, and being a normie, is stepping out on a ledge by going this far. Most dating coaches have good advice, if you want to cycle through lots of partners, but they are abysmal at starting and sustaining life-long partnerships.
 

Easy_C

Crow
If I was going to "steelman" this and prop up his argument I would say that its not a good idea to wife up someone whose personality isn't fully developed, which would happen around mid 20's. I pretty much agree with that, but there's nothing wrong with starting a relationship with a virgin in her late teens and not marrying her until she has finished self actualizing.

If you're being honest there are a huge amount of breakups in people's early 20's and its because they are still figuring out who they are and who they want to be. Often this is completely different to who they thought they were in their teens.

Call me names or whatever but personally I'd rather have a hand in helping shape that.
 
So let's say you have the opportunity to LTR or wife-up a 20 year old woman. What are the chances she cheats on you at 26? I'll pull a number out of thin air just so we can have a conversation. You're free to select another number and see if it changes my argument. I'll say the chance is very high. I'll say 1 in 3.

So okay, what's the alternative? You can wait ten years. Maybe you knew this girl in college and you both liked each other, but you wanted to take the advice of the guy in the video, so you wait. What do you do during those ten years? Maybe you date around a bit. Whatever. What does she do during those ten years? lol. We all know. She will have, at the extreme end, one sexual partner per week on average=52 per year times 10 years = 520 sexual partners. On the low end (a "virtuous" girl by modern standards) she will have on average one sexual partner every six months, and each one will be a mini LTR = 2 per year times 10 years = 20.

...and now she's 30 years old an now (according to the video) she is wife material. This is the moment you've been waiting for! Of course, there's still a chance the marriage wont work out. We all know the stats for this one: 50% There's also a chance she has a bastard. Maybe the chance for that is 17% (let's say 1 in 6)

So option A is, you marry her at 20. You put two babies in her (if you're serious about a family). At 26, there's a 1 in 3 chance she cheats. Hopefully you catch her and divorce her. You're only 26 so asset split doesn't hurt too much. You have child support payments now. That sucks, but that'll be done with by the time you hit 44 (which seems old, I know, but it's really not).

Option B is, you wait 10 years. There's probably a 50:50 chance she followed the slutty path and thus has 520 partners under her belt. Otherwise, she followed the "virtuous" path and has only 20 (what a catch!). Either of these options make her an alpha widow though. There's a 100% chance of that. 520 girl is probably more on the "chasing the high of an abusive but exciting" side, and 20 girl is probably more on the "one who got away" side but make no mistake, they both have past relationships which will loom over you like a dark cloud.

You still get your two kids though (and you take care to never ever google telegony) with the youngest being born when you're 35. Now, there's a 50% chance you divorce at some point. The asset split is going to suck because by this time, you have real assets accumulated. You may also have to pay alimony in this case because this girl may have had a "career" which she "gave up" to have kids with you. Regardless, you have the same child support obligations as above, but now they will continue until you're 53.

So let's play a game!

Grab a set of 1d6 and step up to the plate. I'm going to play Option A. I'm thinking of a 20 year old girl. She attractive of course, but she also has all the extra things about youth that make a girl beautiful. She's happy (bubbly, even). She's optimistic. Everything is new and exciting to her. If you get her some gift, she'll love it. If you take her on vacation, it'll be the highlight of her life. She's also romantic and loves you with her whole heart. She'll keep souvenirs from when the two of you did things together - a seashell from the time you made love on the beach, or a matchbook from the hotel you stayed at.

You get the picture. Also, she gives you two beautiful children.

But uh oh! You've reached your first test! She's 26. Roll the dice. There's a 1 in 3 chance she has a "crazy" phase. So if you roll two or less, your relationship with her is over. If not, then you get to keep enjoying your marriage until around 35 when you have the 50% chance of divorce.

I'm rolling my dice .... oh darn, I rolled crazy lady. Guess the relationship is over.

Who here is playing Option B? Do I have a chump?

Picture a 30 year old. She's still attractive (for a 30 year old) but she has a few extra pounds and her skin is a little looser than the 20 year old. She also has a more "mature" personality, which is another way of saying she's a bit jaded. She's not so happy. She's not carefree or optimistic. Nothing that you do together will ever be new, for her. In fact, she may tell you about times she did the same things with other men. She expects more expensive gifts - that's only natural, since you make more money. She expects more work from you. She's never going to cherish anything the two of you do, in part because she's done it all before, and in part because she feels entitled to it all.

Roll your dice. If it's 3 or less, she's the 520 slut. She'll hop right into bed with you, which you might imagine is a good thing, but it'll quickly become a chore. She wont be able to get off unless you're choking her or tying her up or something. She'll do risky things too - when you're out in public, she might actually pick fights (for you, not for her) just to get herself turned on (ask me how I know this kind of girl). Also, she's going to have lots of "friends" who she has "history" with.

If you rolled 4 or more then congratulations, you got the "good" girl. She still has an old boyfriend that she is hung up on though. She will likely ask you to "please understand" as she "works through her feelings" - one of her boyfriends (probably an early one) will be a top-tier alpha and either she or her friends will let you know it. There will be odd, random things which are off limits because they remind her of something (I once had a girl get upset because I turned on some music during sex).

But okay, you get your two kids just like I did. Now roll to see if you get divorced. Ironically, you probably hope for divorce because by now your option B girl has well and truly hit the wall. She never really respected you anyway, but once she was secure in her ability to divorce you and take half, she really put the screws to you. She fights you constantly and openly ridicules you in front of others.

So, who won this little game? Was it me with Option A and my failed crazy lady roll? Or was it you with Option B?
 

Waverer

Robin
I like your thinking but I think it's too pessimistic.

She will have, at the extreme end, one sexual partner per week on average=52 per year times 10 years = 520 sexual partners. On the low end (a "virtuous" girl by modern standards) she will have on average one sexual partner every six months, and each one will be a mini LTR = 2 per year times 10 years = 20.

Over 50 or over 100 is not 50% of 30 year olds but a tiny percentage.

On the low end (a "virtuous" girl by modern standards) she will have on average one sexual partner every six months, and each one will be a mini LTR = 2 per year times 10 years = 20.

Even this is, I think, a small percentage.

What about all the 30 year olds who had two boyfriends and a one night stand at university, then two serious relationships and some time single?Not saying that's ideal but there is no point pretending 99% of women vary between 2 and 52 men every year.
 
If I was going to "steelman" this and prop up his argument I would say that its not a good idea to wife up someone whose personality isn't fully developed, which would happen around mid 20's. I pretty much agree with that, but there's nothing wrong with starting a relationship with a virgin in her late teens and not marrying her until she has finished self actualizing.

If you're being honest there are a huge amount of breakups in people's early 20's and its because they are still figuring out who they are and who they want to be. Often this is completely different to who they thought they were in their teens.

Honestly, I think this whole "the brain is not fully developed until 25" thing is usually a crutch for people who want an excuse to not live as adults. We're more than developed enough at 25 to take on adult responsibilities, as anyone at any other time in history would tell you.

Whether you can find a woman that age in our culture who is prepared to live as an adult, however, is a different story.
 

mubs100

Sparrow
I dont think the guys talking about development. It's seems mostly that after 25 women really feel that the clock is ticking and that they are not young anymore. The fear of ending up alone that they feel at this point is what makes them more serious partners.
 
Video summary:

Women who enter an LTR in their early 20s tend to have a slut phase at 26 (ostensibly proven by his "statistics")

Women have a fear of missing out (FOMO) and thus should only be wifed up after they have "explored" their sexuality

This sounds pretty defeatist to me. Or a very secular way of looking at things
Defeatist? Secular?

That’s what normies say about redpill.
 
Taking a 27 year old on lots of romantic dinner dates before finally sleeping with her - and then maybe wife-ing her up a couple of years later - isn't so appealing if you suspect she was blowing strangers in night club toilets six months before you met.

His recommendation actually makes sense for men with no sense of sexual jealousy about his girlfriend or wife's sexual history. For the rest of us, it's more like a warning.

[For anyone who doesn't have the inclination to spend 15mins watching his video, he's like most people on YouTube in that he's perfectly comprehensible at 2.0x the normal speed if you fiddle with the speed settings.]
But then, most women don’t do strangers in night club toilets. And most seem to be hoping (every time) that a sexual encounter will lead to LTR (although some may experiment briefly with intentional one-night stands—and in most cases find them unsatisfactory). My guess is that many to most women never intentionally have a one-night stand, and only console themselves afterward that it’s “okay” and that they had a good time and didn’t expect anything more.
Too many women have heard from too many men about the “third date rule” and resigned themselves to giving up the goods quickly, for fear that otherwise even a potential “Mr. Right” will walk away. Of course, most third dates or mini relationships DON’T result in marriage. So of course the numbers add up before the man who wants and is “ready for” marriage finally appears.

The only way this can change is for us men to STOP walking away if we don’t get what we [think we] want by the second or third or twentieth date, and to stop (implicitly or explicitly) threatening to do so. We must renounce “the takeaway”, renounce “dread game”—and maybe renounce “game” altogether. Because saying we just miiight be open to commitment if only we can “test drive that car” is wrong. Especially, but not exclusively, if we already know we’re not at all open to commitment. And because male “game” is at least a major cause of high female notch counts.

That’s right; we ourselves have at least in large part created this situation.
 

Waverer

Robin
I tend to agree with all of that. I think I view it relative to the society we are in. I guess 150 years ago most of us wouldn't even consider marrying a woman who had had sex outside wedlock, whereas now we need to be realistic about the sexual history of most women. We can accept a sexual history while still rejecting the least appealing/most sluttish 1/3rd to 2/3rds.
 
I am 35 years old and I have a very shallow life experience about it but everyone who gets married under 25 is unhappy, this goes for both men and women. Many divorces happened due to lack of experience in adult life, lack of maturity, lack of financial structure, and pressure to get married (I was raised in the church where to have sex it was necessary to get married)

living together helps in the jealousy crisis, increases intimacy but does not strengthen the relationship.

getting married because of pregnancy works if the couple has been together for years.

getting married after 30 seems the norm for my generation.

this business of marrying daddy’s virgin i can’t glimpse for myself, because i already tried to relate to protected middle class girls and it was the biggest pain in the ass, the girl is always invoking the presence of the spirit of daddy patriarch, and i I cannot compete with the provider dad to satisfy the princess' requirements.

I understand that the ideal of marrying a virgin before the age of 25 to have many children away from all current cultural pollution is an ideal, but it does not work because the economy does not collaborate, culture does not collaborate, families do not collaborate.
in real life people have suffered lives, emotional problems, they betray and are betrayed, they are infertile, they lose interest, they lose their notion.I am 35 years old and I have a very shallow life experience about it but everyone who gets married under 25 is unhappy, this goes for both men and women. Many divorces happened due to lack of experience in adult life, lack of maturity, lack of financial structure, and pressure to get married (I was raised in the church where to have sex it was necessary to get married)

living together helps in the jealousy crisis, increases intimacy but does not strengthen the relationship.

getting married because of pregnancy works if the couple has been together for years.

getting married after 30 seems the norm for my generation.

this business of marrying daddy’s virgin i can’t glimpse for myself, because i already tried to relate to protected middle class girls and it was the biggest pain in the ass, the girl is always invoking the presence of the spirit of daddy patriarch, and i I cannot compete with the provider dad to satisfy the princess' requirements.

I understand that the ideal of marrying a virgin before the age of 25 to have many children away from all current cultural pollution is an ideal, but it does not work because the economy does not collaborate, culture does not collaborate, families do not collaborate.
in real life people have suffered lives, emotional problems, they betray and are betrayed, they are infertile, they lose interest, they lose their notion.
 
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