Dating Ethics For Finding a Wife

DeusLuxMeaEst

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
It's quite amazing I have to ask these questions, but after years of game, sin, and being deluded I'll post them here.

The major brightside is this: our great Lord is making changes to my heart and conscience. When in the past I'd have little empathy for what I put people through in the dating world, I have repented for my wrongdoing and feel regret and pain for my sins of the past and any hurt I have caused others.

1) Is it ethical to even be talking to more than one woman in a potential dating context? I don't mean anything physical, just talking and saying potentially going on a date.

2) Let's say you meet a nice Christian woman and they seem very into you, you are polite of course but you don't want to pursue it for various reasons. Now in the past I'd just ghost or ignore them, but I can't do that anymore. I'm just going to tell them truth, which is the best course of action, but thinking of the best way to tell them.

3) I'm still way too focused on looks compared as to whether they'd make a good wife. I can't help it. Changing this behavior which is really part of my old self of seeking women to boost my ego or show off to others (trophy gf syndrome) is difficult to shake. Any tips on finding a balance? I'm thinking just being the masculine pursuer will fix this, but look past their looks.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
1) Yes.
2) "I don't see it working out." It doesn't matter why, even though everyone always claims they want to know why (they don't, really).
3) The youth part, in my view, is the only way to fix any of this. It is literally the solution to all of the "problems". As you age, or at least I can speak for myself, I find youth even more attractive even if the girl isn't technically "hot" or as "beautiful" according to others. The double and triple whammy is that they by definition will have less baggage. Kanazawa always said that time always goes against women (looks and partners) and is inversely related to value, and for men, directly related to value. Men value beauty (which is youth/fertility in large part) and women value success. There are exceptions to this, but neither the woman or man is exceptional in those cases. Still, those relationships might work out, but they aren't informative or a model for almost all other people considering marriage.
 

Early Bird

Robin
Catholic
It's quite amazing I have to ask these questions, but after years of game, sin, and being deluded I'll post them here.

The major brightside is this: our great Lord is making changes to my heart and conscience. When in the past I'd have little empathy for what I put people through in the dating world, I have repented for my wrongdoing and feel regret and pain for my sins of the past and any hurt I have caused others.

1) Is it ethical to even be talking to more than one woman in a potential dating context? I don't mean anything physical, just talking and saying potentially going on a date.

2) Let's say you meet a nice Christian woman and they seem very into you, you are polite of course but you don't want to pursue it for various reasons. Now in the past I'd just ghost or ignore them, but I can't do that anymore. I'm just going to tell them truth, which is the best course of action, but thinking of the best way to tell them.

3) I'm still way too focused on looks compared as to whether they'd make a good wife. I can't help it. Changing this behavior which is really part of my old self of seeking women to boost my ego or show off to others (trophy gf syndrome) is difficult to shake. Any tips on finding a balance? I'm thinking just being the masculine pursuer will fix this, but look past their looks.
I have the same answers as Blade Runner for questions #1 & 2 above.

Regarding your third question, specifically about the desire for the 'trophy gf' type: the initial attraction and 'wow factor' is not worth the long term headaches such a woman can unintentionally cause. I was in a past relationship with an actual 10, and it was enjoyable for all the right reasons, but quickly became very tiresome because everywhere we went people would literally lose their minds. Waiters would stumble, people would stare, etc. She was very gracious about her beauty and was a really good person who's personality didn't just revolve around her looks, but it was still difficult. A woman's utility should be strongly considered, and more so as you both age. I've seen many attractive and fit 50+ year old women, even mothers of 2 or more children. It's respectable to see people who are disciplined enough to remain healthy and attractive. But as she ages her beauty will fade and her homemaking/general wife skills will become more appreciated.

As cliche as it sounds, you will just know when you find the one. The balance you seek will present itself to you.
 

PolishCalifornian

Robin
Catholic
I don't know if this will answer your specific questions but I stumbled across this book on Amazon: Biblical Romance: What Does the Bible Say About Finding a Spouse? The author is a Presbyterian but it look like he sticks to Bible citations with some commentary, you can see the table of contents for free, which might stimulate some thoughts, and decide if it's worth $5 to you.

As far as your questions, my take:

1. Yes, there's no problem talking to more than one woman at once if you aren't actively courting any one.
2. If you realize early on that you are not interested then I see no reason for explaining yourself, don't suggest or make plans to meet and she will get it. Women do this to men all the time, they get it when someone isn't interested much sooner and clearer than men do. If she is persistent then you may need to spell it out for her.
3. I've never felt the need for a "trophy gf", probably because I used to solo game and I wasn't parading women around my social circle, if I was attracted to her that was good enough for me. Mutual physical attraction is a normal and important part of a successful relationship. If there is a mutual attraction and shared values, great, but if you are sacrificing the values for looks then it's a problem. If you are pursuing women of a certain attractiveness level that aren't interested in you then you may need to adjust your standards. In my experience two women can be just as attractive to me, but the higher maintenance types who focus a lot on how they dress, makeup, heels, etc. though nicer to look at, weren't really any prettier than the more casual, practical types who probably make better wives anyway.
 

GodfatherPartTwo

Kingfisher
Protestant
The third issue is an effeminate behavior that the modern day programs into men; to parade your trophy gf/wife is a validation seeking behavior that fluffs up your pride. Continue in your spiritual walk and continue to die to yourself and this problem will be rooted out eventually.
 

Jive Turkey

Woodpecker
Other Christian
1) Nothing wrong with multiple partners in the early phase if you are keeping things chaste. I am still trying to figure out whether or not it makes sense to have a "girlfriend" for marriage, since it seems like having a girlfriend is basically playing house and often times women will just get bored and move on after the drama cycle has concluded

2) I usually say something like "Hey you were really sweet and amazing, but I think we are looking for different things/I don't see things working out long term" Try to stay amicable and be polite as possible

3) There is nothing wrong with wanting to be attracted to your partner. If your wife says "Do you think I'm beautiful/attractive?" you do not want to lie for ethical reasons, but at the same time, imagine if you said to her "I love your personality". She would of course be crushed. In this way, I do not think it is humane to date a woman you are not attracted to. That being said, it is possible to be very strongly attracted to women who are not conventionally beautiful or stunning if you really find you have the right chemistry. However, if you don't have romantic/erotic attraction to a woman I don't see a point in pursuing beyond a few dates to see if you can find a spark.



Good thread btw!
 

DeusLuxMeaEst

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
Going to bump my own thread here with some insights:

If I have to be totally honest with myself, I don't even know if I'm capable of marriage. I believe I have several personality quirks that may make it difficult.

1) I had terrible examples in my parents who never divorced, but had a negative marriage, filled with arguments, domestic violence, etc. These memories are hard to shake.

2) I live alone and have for many years. I think it would be a great challenge to change that routine.

3) Due to 'red-pill' thinking I have a deep mistrust of women especially western women. Even when I am communicating with women who seem chaste and nice, I still, with no evidence, do not trust them.

4) I'm no saint, I have repented from my lustful past and my sins have decreased. I'm much more aware of avoiding them. Still do I deserve a chaste woman? Probably not.

5) I can be moody which is a definite strain on a relationship. I go from periods of great confidence, to feelings of despair in this endeavor.

6) Related to the above, it also applies to my faith. I do not want to blaspheme, but the reasons I became disenchanted with the church as a teenagers come roaring back at times. I have constant thoughts of being stupid and this is all a veneer for power and money. I can tell some in my parish are just for show.

7) I'm getting old and am in my late 30s. The pool is shrinking.

I don't know guys. I am still talking with some potential women, one I just said I didn't feel like it would work out. It's a tough journey and I will also discuss this with my priest.
 

StSeb

Sparrow
Catholic
If you can't find an ideal wife, then you're better off alone. I made the mistake of starting an online relationship with a former cam girl from Colombia and it didn't go very well. She works in a shady place and yesterday she asked me to send her money to buy sanitary pads. I refused it and now she won't talk to me.
Bruh
 

Edelweiss

Sparrow
Orthodox Inquirer
Going to bump my own thread here with some insights:

If I have to be totally honest with myself, I don't even know if I'm capable of marriage. I believe I have several personality quirks that may make it difficult.

1) I had terrible examples in my parents who never divorced, but had a negative marriage, filled with arguments, domestic violence, etc. These memories are hard to shake.

2) I live alone and have for many years. I think it would be a great challenge to change that routine.

3) Due to 'red-pill' thinking I have a deep mistrust of women especially western women. Even when I am communicating with women who seem chaste and nice, I still, with no evidence, do not trust them.

4) I'm no saint, I have repented from my lustful past and my sins have decreased. I'm much more aware of avoiding them. Still do I deserve a chaste woman? Probably not.

5) I can be moody which is a definite strain on a relationship. I go from periods of great confidence, to feelings of despair in this endeavor.

6) Related to the above, it also applies to my faith. I do not want to blaspheme, but the reasons I became disenchanted with the church as a teenagers come roaring back at times. I have constant thoughts of being stupid and this is all a veneer for power and money. I can tell some in my parish are just for show.

7) I'm getting old and am in my late 30s. The pool is shrinking.

I don't know guys. I am still talking with some potential women, one I just said I didn't feel like it would work out. It's a tough journey and I will also discuss this with my priest.
I completely identify with your points 2, 3, 4 and 7.

I have my own version of 5, which is that I have little patience, which does not help with point 2.
Yet I keep faith that God will do and guide us. Trust in him and work on your faith to improve point 6.
 

soli.deo.gloria

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Going to bump my own thread here with some insights:

If I have to be totally honest with myself, I don't even know if I'm capable of marriage. I believe I have several personality quirks that may make it difficult.

1) I had terrible examples in my parents who never divorced, but had a negative marriage, filled with arguments, domestic violence, etc. These memories are hard to shake.
I personally believe the only way to shake this kind of trauma is by living a good Christian life and with God's help. You have to start to believe you are capable of breaking the cycle. Pray and ask Him for help. Go to Church regularly and surround yourself with really nice (Orthodox) Christian people who can lead you by example and show you what a spiritually healthy person looks like/how they should live. Speaking from experience it is definitely possible.

2) I live alone and have for many years. I think it would be a great challenge to change that routine.
If you are willing to change and grow, to venture outside of your comfort zone, with God's help, it will be fine. Believe that.

3) Due to 'red-pill' thinking I have a deep mistrust of women especially western women. Even when I am communicating with women who seem chaste and nice, I still, with no evidence, do not trust them.
Base your interactions with women on the foundation of God and the Church, pray, talk to spiritually healthy people, your priest (and have her do so as well), etc. Don't have physical intimacy/sex before marriage - this is important. It's still not a 100% guarantee things will work out (because there are no guarantees in life), but you will greatly increase the odds of success.

4) I'm no saint, I have repented from my lustful past and my sins have decreased. I'm much more aware of avoiding them. Still do I deserve a chaste woman? Probably not.
You should not be thinking this way. If you have truly repented and been forgiven then yes you deserve to be happy. If you don't believe that then please don't try to get involved with anyone because you will end up hurting them.

5) I can be moody which is a definite strain on a relationship. I go from periods of great confidence, to feelings of despair in this endeavor.
Once again focus on your relationship with God, go to Church, talk to your priest, and repeat until you no longer feel this way.

6) Related to the above, it also applies to my faith. I do not want to blaspheme, but the reasons I became disenchanted with the church as a teenagers come roaring back at times. I have constant thoughts of being stupid and this is all a veneer for power and money. I can tell some in my parish are just for show.
Don't worry about others, worry about yourself.

7) I'm getting old and am in my late 30s. The pool is shrinking.
Stop looking for reasons why you will fail, and start focusing on God and thinking positively.

I don't know guys. I am still talking with some potential women, one I just said I didn't feel like it would work out. It's a tough journey and I will also discuss this with my priest.
Keep trying, and keep working on your faith. You are on the right path so I hope you stick with it. The only person who determines if you will succeed or fail (besides God) is you. If you decide you will fail before you even try, then that is exactly what will happen. When you have doubts rely on Christian friends and your priest. Don't give up.
 
3) I'm still way too focused on looks compared as to whether they'd make a good wife. I can't help it. Changing this behavior which is really part of my old self of seeking women to boost my ego or show off to others (trophy gf syndrome) is difficult to shake. Any tips on finding a balance? I'm thinking just being the masculine pursuer will fix this, but look past their looks.

Be realistic. If you were an attractive 9/10 model looking woman with strong Christian values, would you date yourself? Would you go after a better looking dude with more money and less baggage?

Some guys do get lucky and marry women that are much higher value than they are, but the majority of men need to be more humble in their pursuits. Seek out the qualities that matter much more, and go for women in your league. Going just for looks will likely not end well, especially if you're a scrub.
 

eradicator

Peacock
Agnostic
Gold Member
It's quite amazing I have to ask these questions, but after years of game, sin, and being deluded I'll post them here.

The major brightside is this: our great Lord is making changes to my heart and conscience. When in the past I'd have little empathy for what I put people through in the dating world, I have repented for my wrongdoing and feel regret and pain for my sins of the past and any hurt I have caused others.

1) Is it ethical to even be talking to more than one woman in a potential dating context? I don't mean anything physical, just talking and saying potentially going on a date.

2) Let's say you meet a nice Christian woman and they seem very into you, you are polite of course but you don't want to pursue it for various reasons. Now in the past I'd just ghost or ignore them, but I can't do that anymore. I'm just going to tell them truth, which is the best course of action, but thinking of the best way to tell them.

3) I'm still way too focused on looks compared as to whether they'd make a good wife. I can't help it. Changing this behavior which is really part of my old self of seeking women to boost my ego or show off to others (trophy gf syndrome) is difficult to shake. Any tips on finding a balance? I'm thinking just being the masculine pursuer will fix this, but look past their looks.


1) Yes its fine. If you get to the point where you both agree to an exclusive relationship then it's time to stop.talking to and stop dating other girls.

2) Tell them you met someone else. Do not say "youre too fat" etc. even if it's the truth. You can say "I just don't think we'd be compatible but I wouldn't get too hung up on any of these details.

3) You want to be attracted to the girl you are dating, but yes look for other qualities as well: is she more of a party girl or will she be a good wife and mother, does she even want children and a family?

Don't make this harder than it has to be, finding a girl who will be a good wife is not going to be easy, lets not kid ourselves. But don't make it even harder than it has to be.
 

DeusLuxMeaEst

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
I'll give an update related to this thread. I hope that everyone is making progress and I'm continuing my prayers.

I've encountered several Christian women, and have met with two unfortunately they were not for me. I spoke for a few hours with a third, she was a Trad Catholic, but she had a lot of red flags despite being very attractive.

The biggest change is from the inside. My sins related to lust have decreased sharply, but have not completely disappeared. I still have a strong temptation when seeing attractive women, but many of these thoughts tend to exist in my mind and I no longer act on them.

I attribute this to continually attending Liturgy, daily prayer, and binge watching Father Spyridon's videos. When a lustful urge comes to the surface, I pray and try to listen to one of his videos.

The lust however is now manifesting at night, where my dreams have become very lustful, maybe related to minor demonic activity.

I will continue to search for my future wife and am confident God will continue to make changes in me.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
1. Yes
2. Be honest about your intentions. No harm in asking to remain friends.
3. Humble yourself and instead seek a woman who will make a good mother for your children. Many women I deem attractive make abysmal mothers. The goal of finding a wife is to make a family and a woman that has good motherly qualities will make sure the kids grow up happy, healthy, and well adjusted.
 

Seeker79

Kingfisher
Going to bump my own thread here with some insights:

If I have to be totally honest with myself, I don't even know if I'm capable of marriage. I believe I have several personality quirks that may make it difficult.

1) I had terrible examples in my parents who never divorced, but had a negative marriage, filled with arguments, domestic violence, etc. These memories are hard to shake.

2) I live alone and have for many years. I think it would be a great challenge to change that routine.

3) Due to 'red-pill' thinking I have a deep mistrust of women especially western women. Even when I am communicating with women who seem chaste and nice, I still, with no evidence, do not trust them.

4) I'm no saint, I have repented from my lustful past and my sins have decreased. I'm much more aware of avoiding them. Still do I deserve a chaste woman? Probably not.

5) I can be moody which is a definite strain on a relationship. I go from periods of great confidence, to feelings of despair in this endeavor.

6) Related to the above, it also applies to my faith. I do not want to blaspheme, but the reasons I became disenchanted with the church as a teenagers come roaring back at times. I have constant thoughts of being stupid and this is all a veneer for power and money. I can tell some in my parish are just for show.

7) I'm getting old and am in my late 30s. The pool is shrinking.

I don't know guys. I am still talking with some potential women, one I just said I didn't feel like it would work out. It's a tough journey and I will also discuss this with my priest.
I struggle with many similar thoughts. And my plight with number 7 seems to amplify all the rest -- especially as I lie awake at night pondering my solitary existence, even as I watch the world become more unrecognizable day by day.

I have not been a good enough Christian to attend church regularly but I pray to God every night and when I wake up. This gives me the courage to step into the world and carry on my duties to family and society.
 

DeusLuxMeaEst

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
I struggle with many similar thoughts. And my plight with number 7 seems to amplify all the rest -- especially as I lie awake at night pondering my solitary existence, even as I watch the world become more unrecognizable day by day.

I have not been a good enough Christian to attend church regularly but I pray to God every night and when I wake up. This gives me the courage to step into the world and carry on my duties to family and society.

Fix this first brother, we need the church and can not go about this alone. I am confident as I grow in faith the rest of the pieces will begin to fall into place.
 
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