Definitive evidence of Americas inevitable decline

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kosko

Peacock
Gold Member
The Super Bowl is a Americas largest single event and thus a meter mover all over the globe. Regardless if anybody abroad watches the shit its still broadcasted in a majority of countries. Americans obsession with Football makes no sense, blame ESPN and media for that and it mirrors the obsession Canadians have with Hockey but even Hockey nobody gives a shit about it outside of 6-8 nations. Football is even more impressive because American Football only has fans in 3 countries (America, Netherlands, Germany) nobody else really gives a fuck about ti yet its still will make it onto your newscast wherever you are in the globe.
 

Blaster

Ostrich
Gold Member
Football is an excellent game and the NFL is a very well-run league. Not sure what is so confusing about football's popularity.
 

Cincinnatus

Hummingbird
Gold Member
kosko said:
Americans obsession with Football makes no sense, blame ESPN and media for that and it mirrors the obsession Canadians have with Hockey but even Hockey nobody gives a shit about it outside of 6-8 nations.

I'm probably one of the only Americans ever to hope that the Stanley Cup will eventually supercede the Super Bowl in popularity. I'm an American, not Canadian, but I love hockey. There's something really cool about dudes taking a break from knocking a puck around on the ice, to knock each other out.
 

Mage

 
Banned
houston said:
Mage said:
crippler said:
Mage said:
And when an American starts bragging about things no one else is actually interested in and especially if he uses false facts like Superbowl being the second most popular event outside Olympics than he just looks like a drunken braggart. And this is one of reasons why many people don't like Americans.

The more someone brags about how great his big country or his big corporation is the more he comes off as just an arrogant little cogwheel guy who has nothing personal to be proud of. Nobody likes that.

Irrelevant at the present. America is still on top enough that this method of discourse is still effective.

Like a fat chick at a sausage-fest, America can be a bitch because the rest of the room still wants to bang her. But the wall is approaching.

America is more like an unattractive beta provider. Everyone wants to marry it and then divorce ASAP. Or like an old rich guy. Your wife and your relatives say polite things to you but actually they hope you just die...
Did you get gang raped while visiting America? You talk about it a lot for someone who hates it so much.

No hate man, I haven't visited America but many girls I have grown up with (relatives, classmates) have visited if for a year or longer and they all were shy and pleasant girls before but returned as dominatrix bitches with hugely overblown egos. I sincerely believe America's culture is poison.

I don't think there is anything wrong with revealing Americas flaws in a forum who's Uncle constantly critiques America himself.

There is an image of America that I would appreciate - the traditional God fearing nation revering it's constitution that emphases true liberty. But as I understand that America is no more. It is merely a memory old-timers like war veterans who need to believe their exploits were not in vain cling to, to blind themselves from the modern realities.

This is how I see it. This is an image America has created in my experience and I don't feel guilty about it. Maybe Americans should think why their country leaves such an impression.

Of course if you are an American then you surely know better and if I am wrong then please explain me why America is a great country that everybody should love. The way I see it it sure has a lot of money circulating in it and many people pretend to ignore it's many flaws to get closer to this money, similar how a poor woman would tolerate an old fart to jump from poverty to wealth. But that's it. Please, if you can say something positive about America then please do and change my opinion. Hating on me would not be a good way to protect your American pride.
 

T and A Man

Pelican
Gold Member
Mage said:
The rest of the world is far more interested in the real football. You know the one where you kick the ball with your feet - hence the name - football.

Yet in your sneering position of superiority, you stuff this simple piece of history up.

The sport is called football, because it was a game played on foot, rather than horseback.

The original forms of football across Europe, namely the U.K as they had more leisure time, was a very primitive sport crossed between what is now Rugby Union and Gaelic football... which are probably the two most primitive remaining.

What you call 'football', given the nickname 'soccer' in areas where other football codes are more popular... is derived from A"Socc"iation football.

Soccer and Rugger was what the two most popular football code of 19th century england were called.

Soccer came from Eton, where they actually played the above described primitive form of football, then decided to stop using their hands.... nothing like the William Webb Ellis myth that rugby fans fans are too silly to dismiss.

American football and baseball are two sports artificially kept popular in America, while pretty much no one around the world is interested in them, they are fringe sports. Therefore Americans appear to be totally dominating these sports and this rises the national pride.

How do you prescribe this 'artificial' mechanism?

many 'fringe sports' take on a regional appearance.

I doubt many Americans would feel great pride from winning a gold medal in American football, and baseball is a very big sport in central american, japan, South korea and parts of south america.

On money it takes in, it's probably the second biggest sport in the world.

I didn't mean to insult anyones patriotic feelings, but if you consider yourself a red pill person then you must realize that American culture is pulling wool over the eyes of its citizens in more ways then just pushing feminism and shaming marrying foreign wives. There are tons of other subtle methods.

Red-Pill is not a counter to American jingoism. You were just being obnoxious.
 

T and A Man

Pelican
Gold Member
bojangles said:
you guys can watch whatever the fuck you like, I tried watching some of the superbowl last night but it was too stop start and I could not stay awake for 4 hours or more late into the night, sleep was very important to me. I'm one of those who doesnt mind NFL either.

Do you watch cricket?
 

Mage

 
Banned
T and A Man said:
Mage said:
The rest of the world is far more interested in the real football. You know the one where you kick the ball with your feet - hence the name - football.

Yet in your sneering position of superiority, you stuff this simple piece of history up.

The sport is called football, because it was a game played on foot, rather than horseback.

The original forms of football across Europe, namely the U.K as they had more leisure time, was a very primitive sport crossed between what is now Rugby Union and Gaelic football... which are probably the two most primitive remaining.

What you call 'football', given the nickname 'soccer' in areas where other football codes are more popular... is derived from A"Socc"iation football.

Soccer and Rugger was what the two most popular football code of 19th century england were called.

Soccer came from Eton, where they actually played the above described primitive form of football, then decided to stop using their hands.... nothing like the William Webb Ellis myth that rugby fans fans are too silly to dismiss.

American football and baseball are two sports artificially kept popular in America, while pretty much no one around the world is interested in them, they are fringe sports. Therefore Americans appear to be totally dominating these sports and this rises the national pride.

How do you prescribe this 'artificial' mechanism?

many 'fringe sports' take on a regional appearance.

I doubt many Americans would feel great pride from winning a gold medal in American football, and baseball is a very big sport in central american, japan, South korea and parts of south america.

On money it takes in, it's probably the second biggest sport in the world.

I didn't mean to insult anyones patriotic feelings, but if you consider yourself a red pill person then you must realize that American culture is pulling wool over the eyes of its citizens in more ways then just pushing feminism and shaming marrying foreign wives. There are tons of other subtle methods.

Red-Pill is not a counter to American jingoism. You were just being obnoxious.

Thank you for explaining the origins of the word football I didn't know that.

I didn't feel bad about you correcting me and I am not offended. Just like nobody should be offended if I clear out the misconception that Superbowl is popular around the world.

It's hard to talk about this topic without sounding like being obnoxious.

Actually I think that most sports have an artificial popularity boosts trough increased media exposure.

Just look at this forum what are most discussed sports here? Powerlifting, bodybuilding, boxing and martial arts. Endeavors for real men. Something that helps you in your day to day life, helps to attract women, helps to scare criminals and jealous knights, helps in self defense. These sports naturally reveal their primal superiority in a not commercial environment like this.

Yet what are the most popular sports for blue pill society? Various team game sports with no direct real world application, be it football, hockey or basketball. Why is it? Because these sports are more easy to combine with advertising, because these sports where the team is credited instead of an individual are better for raising patriotism and national pride (or at minor level to raise the reputation of a school or university) . Because it is easier to sell these sports to guys who like to sit in front of TV while drinking beer. Are these sports useful in the world outside of the stadium? Only if you become famous or rich trough them. They are more useful for corporations and governments trough.
 

fmudd

 
Banned
Want more evidence of America's decline?

How about lingerie for dudes who KNOW their women?


By the way, I can't wait for the debate 5-10 years from now when taxpayer-funded transgender surgeries will be deemed a MUST HAVE right or else you're a racist, sexist homophobe.


 

T and A Man

Pelican
Gold Member
Mage said:
Thank you for explaining the origins of the word football I didn't know that.

I didn't feel bad about you correcting me and I am not offended. Just like nobody should be offended if I clear out the misconception that Superbowl is popular around the world.

Pointing out that it is not popular isn't the offensive bit. Inferring that some posters here should pull their head in because American culture may be/is toxic and that they are somehow accountable is. I say this as an Australian observing what transpired.

We are here to build each other up, not tear each other down, and especially not over something as trivial as what is generally recreational viewing.

It's hard to talk about this topic without sounding like being obnoxious.

Why? There is no need to hate. Sports have generally been preselected in regions over a century ago.

Other than soccer, there are at least regional variants, such as

Rugby Union - the sport for soft, rich kids in the main, with it being popular is third world regions like the Welsh valleys, New Zealand and shit hole pacific islands.

Rugby League - the sport derived from above for way below critical thinkers found in the north of england, two eastern states in Australia, some black singlet areas of New Zealand and papua New Guinea

American Football - as discussed in this thread.

Canadian Football, a variant, and less popular than above

Gaelic football - a sport played by knackers with potatoes for brains in Ireland.

Australian football - played and supported by morons in the backwater states of Australia.

Actually I think that most sports have an artificial popularity boosts trough increased media exposure.

I think you'll find those levels aren't artificial, but the real demand levels.

Just look at this forum what are most discussed sports here? Powerlifting, bodybuilding, boxing and martial arts. Endeavors for real men. Something that helps you in your day to day life, helps to attract women, helps to scare criminals and jealous knights, helps in self defense. These sports naturally reveal their primal superiority in a not commercial environment like this.

They are also pretty boring to watch.

What you don't assign as a positive to team sports is that they involve teamwork, which is a less often discussed feature of testosterone.

Guys can sit and watch a sport together, and not say a word to each other, yet still bond over it.

Team work in a sportiong environment, particularly moangst teen males in brilliant in team building. It is why they team sports were codified in the late 19th century, as a substitute to fighting wars and all-male sodomy that was common within the military.

Yet what are the most popular sports for blue pill society? Various team game sports with no direct real world application, be it football, hockey or basketball. Why is it?

Actually it is none.. but if you had to give an answer.. it is soccer.

That's why the term 'soccer mum' came about. Prior to that, men guided, or instructed what sports their sons played, because they understood what elements is introduced to forming a boy into a man.

When mothers by became hegemonic in raising kids, their sport of choice was soccer, because it was soft, weak, reliant of taking dives in penalty boxes to score goals instead of earning them justly... so less than brave, less than honest/

All female traits.

Because these sports are more easy to combine with advertising, because these sports where the team is credited instead of an individual

I think you'll find they have changed to make them suitable for TV ads. They existed for the main part well before TV was invented.

are better for raising patriotism and national pride (or at minor level to raise the reputation of a school or university) .

That sounds like a very u.s centric view to align them to colleges. They aren't really a feature in the rest of the world.

And the most popular competitions are club based, not country based.

Patriotism over Machester United, Arsenal or Real Madrid?

Because it is easier to sell these sports to guys who like to sit in front of TV while drinking beer. Are these sports useful in the world outside of the stadium?

I've probably played around 500 games of rugby, none of them in front of more than 200 people. Sports in big stadiums is the pointy narrow end, not the entirety of the sport.

Only if you become famous or rich trough them. They are more useful for corporations and governments trough.

I've enjoyed my sport playing immensely, I didn't become rich from it.
 

worldwidetraveler

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Mage said:
No hate man, I haven't visited America but many girls I have grown up with (relatives, classmates) have visited if for a year or longer and they all were shy and pleasant girls before but returned as dominatrix bitches with hugely overblown egos. I sincerely believe America's culture is poison.

I don't think there is anything wrong with revealing Americas flaws in a forum who's Uncle constantly critiques America himself.

Nothing wrong with criticizing a country that you have actually visited and spent some time in. It is hard to swallow critiques from people who never set foot in that country.

Maybe next you will start posting some data sheets on America based on the girls you knew who knew someone that been there.

Your "Red Pill" critiques are very Dashesque in nature.
 

MorphineBliss

 
Banned
Just chipping in American Football...

I lived in LA for a year, was taken to a couple of games, also ball games, bball. Of all I actually most enjoy the NHL, not the Kings tho.

American Football is a complex game. I played Rugby all through boarding school but I can't claim to really grasp American Football. It's intricate, and far more tactical than - as far as I know - other team sports.

I don't think that's the reason tho for the massive hype it attracts. Don't tell me all those women watching understand what's going on. They're watching for the good time. American Football is scarce. There's not many matches to be played. You can't play and watch a proper game of american football at the local park. That's why college and highschool football is so big. You can't get it elsewhere. Also the format of the game with the intermissions and halts in play allow for a lot of production value to be added (like many american sports). Action replays, expert commentaries, even entertaining marketing. People make an event out of going to see the football, much like people in the UK make an event of going to Ascot/etc or go watch the cricket. It's a day's worth of entertainment out, including food and drink. Football's slightly different, most people there go weekly, yeah a lot go to the pub after but you can't naturally make it a family/picnic event.

Generally the way supporting a team works is different in US due it being such a vast country. If you live 150 miles away from the stadium it's not feasable to go watch every home game. You treat yourself to one trip a year maybe, as a major outing.

Televised, commercialised sports in america are made out to be entertainment mainly. In Europe it seems to be more about the competition and beating rivals. I have strong dislike for a lot of football teams in england. I hate my teams rivals. I wouldn't go see any of them even if I was invited. I find this quite interesting because in younger athletes, these roles seem to be quite reversed between america and europe, where american youngsters get pushed far harder, and europeans are there for the fun of it all (which reflects in american athletes being usually more successful down the line).
 

bojangles

Crow
Gold Member
T and A Man said:
bojangles said:
you guys can watch whatever the fuck you like, I tried watching some of the superbowl last night but it was too stop start and I could not stay awake for 4 hours or more late into the night, sleep was very important to me. I'm one of those who doesnt mind NFL either.

Do you watch cricket?

yes I do, but I value my sleep over anything whether it's cricket, NFL or UFC. Only thing that I will attempt to stay awake for will be boxing (i fail miserably and normally miss fights), sex (i fall asleep after jizzabel has sucked my ball sack dry) and Football (soccer).
 

Teedub

Crow
Gold Member
bojangles said:
yes I do, but I value my sleep over anything whether it's cricket, NFL or UFC. Only thing that I will attempt to stay awake for will be boxing.

Yeah I love boxing, I'm eagerly anticipating the Froch Kessler rematch.
 

Blaster

Ostrich
Gold Member
It's pretty easy to learn the basics of American football. If you watch a few games with an understanding of the fundamentals you should be able to follow the rhythm of the game quickly, especially if you know rugby.

The basic rules of the game are:

One team has possession of the ball (the offense). Possession is changed deliberately with kickoffs and punts. Possession change can also be forced by fumbles, interceptions (more on that later), a missed field goal, or failure to achieve a 1st down after 4 attempts.

The goal of the offense is to move the ball into the opposing team's end zone. This is a touchdown, similar to a try in rugby, except there is no need to ground the ball. Touchdowns are 6 points plus an opportunity for an extra point. Alternately, the offense can score a field goal by kicking the ball through the uprights. Field goals are worth 3 points.

Apart from kickoffs, primary gameplay is divided into "downs." The ball is placed on the field by the referee. This becomes the 'line of scrimmage'. Play begins when the offense 'snaps' the ball backward from the line of scrimmage. After the snap, offense can advance the ball by running or with a "forward pass". Lateral passes are legal at any time but are used sparingly. The defense stops the offense by tackling the ball carrier, running him out of bounds, or by disrupting a forward pass. When the ball-carrier is tackled or run out of bounds, or an incomplete pass is thrown, the down is complete and play pauses until the referee spots the ball at the new line of scrimmage. For an incomplete pass, the ball is spotted at the previous line of scrimmage, otherwise the ball is spotted at the yard line where the player was tackled or went out of bounds, between the hash marks in the middle of the field.

Offenses have 4 downs to advance 10 yards, at which point they are awarded a new set of downs (aka a "first down"). The 10-yard marker is commonly known as the 1st-down marker. Modern broadcasts typically draw a digital blue line on the field for the line of scrimmage, and a yellow line for the first down.

Each play, the offense has 4 basic options: run, pass, punt, or a field goal attempt. On a run play, the ball is snapped to the quarterback who hands it off (or tosses it laterally) to a running specialist (running back/tailback/halfback) who tries to advance the ball down the field. On a pass play, the quarterback drops back behind the line of scrimmage and attempts to throw the ball to a teammate down field, a receiver, who is attempting to evade defenders. On a punt, the ball is "long snapped" to a punter who drop-kicks the ball to the opposing team. On a field goal, the ball is snapped and held for the kicker to try and kick the ball between the uprights. Typically, field goals and punts are only attempted on 4th down.

The last piece of the offense is the offensive line. The offense has 5 players on the field who are not allowed to touch the ball (except in the case of a fumble). Their role is to protect ball-carriers by blocking defenders. They are basically meat shields, and I don't think there is really an equivalent in rugby as blocking is illegal.

The defense has the same number of players as the offense, and their sole purpose is to prevent the offense from advancing the ball by tackling the ball carrier or disrupting or intercepting forward passes. Defense can also throw blocks like the offensive line within certain limitations.

And that's about it. Even the final scoring method (safety) is an edge-case.

Virtually all of the remaining complexity is there to support those basic rules and for the most part casual viewers only need to know whatever they're interested in learning about. For example there are detailed rules governing legal tackles, blocks, and other contact. Mostly viewers can just trust the refs and players know what they are doing. The effect of those rules is primarily to protect players and keep the game from becoming too boring to watch. There are also hundreds of variations on the basic run and pass plays, but they're all oriented around fooling or exploiting weak spots in the defense and moving the ball down field.

I realize this is still a fairly long post and yes, football is more complex than soccer for sure. But I don't think it's really any more complicated than rugby. Rugby has lots of complex rules with regards to line-outs and scrums and rucks and mauls.
 

Mikev75

Robin
What I don't get is how soccer is such a popular sport among kids in US suburbs, but few people follow it at the professional level.
 

Teedub

Crow
Gold Member
Mikev75 said:
What I don't get is how soccer is such a popular sport among kids in US suburbs, but few people follow it at the professional level.

Good question. Give it another 20 years.
 

jmoney29

 
Banned
Here soccer is largely confined to suburban (pay to play) and ethnic populations. It is very inaccessible to inner city youth.Also,the standard of play in MLS is below that of Europe and south America, in MLS teams don't have to worry about a shot from outside the box hitting the target. Also, the game is as conservative strategy -wise as it has ever been, teams with top players use highly defensive tactics against the lowliest of teams.
 

Blaster

Ostrich
Gold Member
NFL, MLB, and NBA are far more easily consumed than MLS in the US. That may change as internet streaming improves. But there is still the issue with quality of play in the MLS vs other leagues, the ties, and the low scores. Personally I don't really mind low scoring games much but I do admit I'd rather see more offense and less defense.

As for international leagues-- there typically aren't enough fans of any particular league or team nearby for it to be an effective social thing the way NFL, MLB, and NBA are. Between the top UEFA leagues and South American leagues there are hundreds of teams which have varied, sporadic exposure in the US. I see soccer on TV every so often but it's never the same team twice (often not even the same league). There's really no way to passively follow international soccer in the US the way you can passively follow the MLB or NFL.
 

kosko

Peacock
Gold Member
Soccer is quite cheap to play so it will eventually catch on in the inner-cities. Sports like Basketball and Football IMO will become ultra stratified like Hockey in Canada. In Canada you are scooped up at a (very) young age if you are really good and dumped into elite programs, everybody else just plays scab hockey for fun. In the USA AAU ball dominates and in time Football will probably be sourced out of regional hubs/leagues in which HS will simply turn into Football factories for their state/region (it happens now but it will be more extreme in time). Soccer will provide a easy access sport for many kids and all those old football fields that are not being used will become soccer pitches for the youth.

Soccer you just need a ball, a park, nets, refs, and some different shirts. Equipment from shoes to shin guards are quite cheap also. This is why it has spread across the globe as it has a very low barrier to entry as anybody can play it.
 

bojangles

Crow
Gold Member
kosko said:
Soccer is quite cheap to play so it will eventually catch on in the inner-cities. Sports like Basketball and Football IMO will become ultra stratified like Hockey in Canada. In Canada you are scooped up at a (very) young age if you are really good and dumped into elite programs, everybody else just plays scab hockey for fun. In the USA AAU ball dominates and in time Football will probably be sourced out of regional hubs/leagues in which HS will simply turn into Football factories for their state/region (it happens now but it will be more extreme in time). Soccer will provide a easy access sport for many kids and all those old football fields that are not being used will become soccer pitches for the youth.

Soccer you just need a ball, a park, nets, refs, and some different shirts. Equipment from shoes to shin guards are quite cheap also. This is why it has spread across the globe as it has a very low barrier to entry as anybody can play it.

you don't even need a ball, you can use a tennis ball, an orange, basically anything round that won't break when you kick it, see Africa and poor countries where soccer is played at a young age on sand, dirt, grass, beaches
 
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