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Captain Gh

Ostrich
Gold Member
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

ManVsMachine said:
manly5000 said:
Interesting... honestly I think there are a ton of misconceptions on both sides of the fence here. I like both communities, relate to both communities, and am more or less a part of both communities, but both seem hell-bent on trashing the other at every possible turn so it's really fucking hard for me to watch.

The truth is that both communities are pretty much fighting for the same cause. Most of the guys I see on the MGTOW forums have been royally fucking burned by a horrible divorce and have had their lives destroyed, which is why they want nothing to do with women or relationships. Alot of them still game and bang though. Only "ghosts" avoid anything to do with women or people.

Really anyone who is saying "fuck off" to the standard societal role for men and doing their own thing is a MGTOW.

The shaming language you guys throw at each other makes me cringe. So many things are arrayed against men as a whole these days that the different communities need to nix this pissy petty fighting shit and start working together.

Great post. I like your perspective.

What ends up happening is that some figurehead who claims to speak for EVERYONE in the manosphere, makes a clown of himself to the media (read: too inexperienced to handle himself in the way that someone like Forney or Roosh does), when really there should be no reason the media needs to play a part. Then and only then do they get trashed.


Do you really think countless articles of "The Sexodus" will change female behavior? Let me spoil the plot here: there are way too many simps on the ground who make themselves far too available to provide an incentive for change. Not only that, but as I've mentioned, many of these men "championing the cause" are the types in /r/theredpill who end up speaking from a point of anger, or hopelessness - signs they have not really gone their own way.


Where I have to disagree is that a real Man Who Has Gone His Own Way doesn't even have a cause other than fulfilling his own life and the lives he touches as he goes about his life. These men tend to be a source of positivity and inspiration to other men. Hardly a rallying cry.
Man your comment about the sexodus is Bang on my friend! I was on Backpage today to look at some available apartment, and I went to check out the men for women section to see what kind of game they were spittin over there and hum... well simpin is alive and well, and maybe bigger than ever! Saw a man (if I can call him that) offering 150$/week for a FWB relationship. That's 600$/month to Bang a college hoe!! Insane
 

spokepoker

Hummingbird
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

Huh. I always thought 'MGTOW' was about men doing their own shit, not working for a corporation, making what they need, etc.

I thought that was what that philosophy was all about. I don't think I read about the anti-woman parts, course, I don't think I read much more about it othern than what the acronym stood for. "Men Go Their Own Way".
 

captndonk

Woodpecker
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

I watched some of the videos of sandman on youtube. I think he has some valid arguments, but sometimes he argues illogical or he even contradicts his own statements.
And of course he seems to think that a man can simply give up on his desire for beautiful women.
 

El Chinito loco

Crow
Gold Member
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

wi30 said:
^Eh, I would just describe them as lazy borderline red-pill guys without any game or self improvement.
Not even red pill in the slightest. They are just disgruntled herbivore men who are afraid of social interaction and have extreme neurosis when it comes to women. They use that to formulate their own hypothesis concerning society and crib stuff from random things they read on the internet.

Your average asperger's kid has more in common with MGTOW than any actual red pill guy.
 
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

When I'm in the west, I basically give up women unless I find a real feminine woman that hasn't been in the west for very long and isn't fat like most of the population!

I refuse to give a broken westernised woman any of my attention or pleasure. When they acknowledge me, I just pretend they don't exist! I prefer to be around a group of babies crying than watch their muscular body language, deep voice, depressive facial expressions, short hair and tattoos. Even worst feminine beta men everywhere...

I've been back in the west for 2 weeks now and I feel like I'm having a nightmare which I can't wait to wake up from. Even worst hearing how Feminists have fucked up my country even more since I left.

All MGTOW need to head to the East if they want real women! It took allot guts to do it at first but your life will be 100x better!
 
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

eatthishomie said:
These VGTOWs honestly think they are hurting women by taking themselves out. They're only hurting themselves. Even a below average woman has such a veritable buffet of cock to gorge on that a handful of VGTOWs disregarding them is barely even a blip on the radar. They hurt no one but themselves.

Look, we all remember that Scottish survey that said 42% of women admitted they were willing to spermjack a man. Think about the implications of that, 42% of women are a direct threat to my independence and freedom. If that survey is any indication, a little less than half of all women are a literal health risk for me. Now, does this stop me from pursuing women? Hell no! I know that I need women in my life. I acknowledge that I need women in my life regardless of the risk. Even with all of their bullshit, women are the yin to our yang. Not having women in your life can drive you fucking crazy - look at Elliot Rodger, all the evidence you need for that. At least I acknowledge it. I think deep down, the VGTOW movement would acknowledge that too.

That's the catch 22 of being a man, may as well suck it up and accept it or deal with a life of miserable celibacy.



I disagree that getting laid would have prevented Elliot Rodger from doing what he did. It wasn't that he just "couldn't get laid". Go watch the guy's videos. He was insane. He came from a wealthy hollywood family with LOTS of connections. Even the most beta guy would have had some kind of connection with SOME girl given his setup. He just had serious mental issues.
 

richler

Sparrow
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

MGTOW are not going "their own way". They are going in a very specific way, and one that generally follows failure. They are following the path of least resistance for the marginal and the pitiful and calling it a choice. Where would such men have been in even a pre-modern society? At the tavern with sots, amputees and lunatics. These aren't healthy men. These men have no programme.
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

easternwomenrule said:
When I'm in the west, I basically give up women unless I find a real feminine woman that hasn't been in the west for very long and isn't fat like most of the population!

I refuse to give a broken westernised woman any of my attention or pleasure. When they acknowledge me, I just pretend they don't exist! I prefer to be around a group of babies crying than watch their muscular body language, deep voice, depressive facial expressions, short hair and tattoos. Even worst feminine beta men everywhere...

I've been back in the west for 2 weeks now and I feel like I'm having a nightmare which I can't wait to wake up from. Even worst hearing how Feminists have fucked up my country even more since I left.

All MGTOW need to head to the East if they want real women! It took allot guts to do it at first but your life will be 100x better!
Way back when MGTOW was coined and the idea originated, it started on a forum created by a guy who expatted to Japan and his frustrations with American women and trying to get other men to get out and see the world. So the original idea was sort of based on the idea of going your own way, as of going away from what was the 1990's narrative to settle down and get married in the USA.

Things were much more simple back then.

Anyway, today this is probably a guy's best option. To learn game, swallow the red pill truths of life, and still look overseas for a quality woman as they are so rare in the western world.

The problem is, after 7 years of a terrible economy and the crisis in Europe, the ability to travel like this is disappearing. Middle class jobs with plenty of vacation are disappearing, and even those that remain are so over worked there is almost no way to get away for a month and visit other countries. Online businesses are crashing. And money is becoming tougher to come by.

Dealing with women in the USA is a big risk, and one I choose to avoid for the time being. But I am older and my sex drive isn't the same as a 22 year old. Thank God I was in my early 20's before 9/11 and this country really fell off a cliff. I had my fun when women were just crappy, but before this country became a police state. I can't blame these men for avoiding women altogether when you combine the huge risks and the tiny reward/quality.
 

Quintus Curtius

Crow
Gold Member
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

I know it's easy to trash these guys, for all the valid reasons that other posters have given above.

But I tend to have some sympathy, up to a point, for these guys.

Withdrawal from the game of life, of which sex is a part, is not good. We're all agreed on that.

But we need to understand that not every guy is a fighter. Some guys are just crushed by all the feminism, injustice, anti-male atmosphere, and all the rest. It really is a big burden, and we need to remember that.

Even the strongest of us--if he is being honest with himself--gets worn down by the shit we see out there on a daily basis.

As much as we don't like to admit it, there are two responses to a stressful situation: fight or flight.

We forget that for every man who chooses the former, three or more choose the latter.

One other thing I think needs to be said about these guys.

I suspect that many of them are not as passive or supine as we might think. Some of them may be good men, but they have just never had any good leadership. They've never found anything worth fighting for. They can be converted.

Deep within the well of every man's soul is a reservoir of strength that can be tapped into when the right circumstances are present. The problem is that until recently, there has been no fighting movement to rally these guys.

In the male universe today, we have three options:

MRA: generally an older crowd focusing on working within the system for male rights at the legal level.

MGTOW: Throw in the towel and shun women.

Neomasculinity: This is the only real "fighting movement" for men today. This is it. It is the most ambitious of all the movements, because it actually wants to roll back the tide of feminism and cultural decay. It is not satisfied with containment: it wants to replace the existing culture with another culture. There is no room for compromise.

It doesn't want to just play defense, it wants to go on offense all across the board, and take the fight to the enemy. No one else is doing this.

It is unapologetically aggressive, messianic, and visionary.

It is fighting a very low-level type of struggle at this point by shaping mens' minds, by waking them up to new ideas, by building networks of like-minded individuals, and by slowly shaping the media landscape.

This is the movement that will inherit the earth.
 

Renzy

Kingfisher
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

I've got no problem with MGTOW. For every guy who drops out that way, it's still one step closer to change. If they're not going to fight, then it's better to have them sitting on the sidelines than aiding the enemy or perpetuating the status quo.
 

Eskhander

Pelican
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

The best arguments I have heard from MGTOW revolve around the Artificial Womb making their movement viable.

But they also seem to think the AW will make all men act like them, which I think is hubris.
 
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

Eskhander said:
The best arguments I have heard from MGTOW revolve around the Artificial Womb making their movement viable.

But they also seem to think the AW will make all men act like them, which I think is hubris.

That is a good argument but it faces the beast of legislation. Hell, even sexbots will likely be legislated as a last ditch effort to restrain male sexuality.

But big brother aside, a motherless home is just as bad as a fatherless home, especially in the earliest years. Harlow's monkey studies apply to most developed mammals.
 

Easy_C

Crow
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

Quintus Curtius said:
I know it's easy to trash these guys, for all the valid reasons that other posters have given above.

But I tend to have some sympathy, up to a point, for these guys.

But we need to understand that not every guy is a fighter. Some guys are just crushed by all the feminism, injustice, anti-male atmosphere, and all the rest. It really is a big burden, and we need to remember that.
They're doing neither fight, nor flight, for the most part. Instead they're more like Eyore, just sitting down insisting everything is terrible.

The way I see it is that however sympathetic I may be, expressing that sympathy isn't what's best for them. What they need is a swift kick in the ass to get them either back into the fight or out the door.
 

Easy_C

Crow
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

ManVsMachine said:
Eskhander said:
The best arguments I have heard from MGTOW revolve around the Artificial Womb making their movement viable.

But they also seem to think the AW will make all men act like them, which I think is hubris.

That is a good argument but it faces the beast of legislation. Hell, even sexbots will likely be legislated as a last ditch effort to restrain male sexuality.

But big brother aside, a motherless home is just as bad as a fatherless home, especially in the earliest years. Harlow's monkey studies apply to most developed mammals.

That was stupid Winston, stupid! You should know better than to say a thing like that!
As do you. The goal is NOT to restrain male sexuality, but to ensure that male sexual energy is wasted and dissipated....hence the reason they've been pushing pornography and male masturbation aids.

It's about disempowering males, because every example in history of an effective rebellion was the result of alpha males banding together when the time was right. When you feminize the males, depriving them of their aggression and getting them to deplete their masculine energy into a napkin(or a fleshlight, or a sexbot) you make them more submissive and ensure that they will embrace their role as slaves.

So no. Expect the elite to embrace the spread of sexbots and help it along.
 

iknowexactly

Crow
Gold Member
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

Vanguard said:
manly5000 said:
Can somebody explain the hatred that this community has for MGTOW, and vice versa? Because it doesn't make any fucking sense to me.
I hadn't heard of them before starting this thread, but after doing some reading, I think I somewhat understand what they're trying to do and why it's so harmful.

It appears they believe feminism has destroyed the entire female race and that it's impossible for a man to have a relationship with one. Because of this, they advocate for all men to end their relationships and become social exiles.
Nah, you've got me wrong at least. I'm older and am not advocating anything for anyone but myself.

If you're YoungTallCool enough such that the cost/benefit analysis makes it worth it to deal with women socially, more power to you.

What you'll find as you get older (especially past 55-60) and are not rich and/or famous is that the ROI of dealing with women gets lower and lower.

So I'm moving more towards a default of "Show me a reason I should deal with a woman first" before I expend the effort of getting to know one ( a lot of young men think like this too, they just get shown more flirtation by women)

In fact, I say enjoy them while you're young, it's far, far less work as your attention supports their vanity, while after a certain age it is neutral or even "eeeew that old guy hit on me."
 

It_is_my_time

Hummingbird
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

iknowexactly said:
Vanguard said:
manly5000 said:
Can somebody explain the hatred that this community has for MGTOW, and vice versa? Because it doesn't make any fucking sense to me.
I hadn't heard of them before starting this thread, but after doing some reading, I think I somewhat understand what they're trying to do and why it's so harmful.

It appears they believe feminism has destroyed the entire female race and that it's impossible for a man to have a relationship with one. Because of this, they advocate for all men to end their relationships and become social exiles.
Nah, you've got me wrong at least. I'm older and am not advocating anything for anyone but myself.

If you're YoungTallCool enough such that the cost/benefit analysis makes it worth it to deal with women socially, more power to you.

What you'll find as you get older (especially past 55-60) and are not rich and/or famous is that the ROI of dealing with women gets lower and lower.

So I'm moving more towards a default of "Show me a reason I should deal with a woman first" before I expend the effort of getting to know one ( a lot of young men think like this too, they just get shown more flirtation by women)

In fact, I say enjoy them while you're young, it's far, far less work as your attention supports their vanity, while after a certain age it is neutral or even "eeeew that old guy hit on me."
Yes, exactly.

Plus men who are older are used to ladies. That means women who act feminine, talk feminine, give feminine body language, and dress like ladies dress. That is what we learned to find attractive at a young age.

So not only are the women way too much effort for us, and they have nothing to offer in return, most of them are not attractive. They talk like sailors, set like football players, dress like a mix of a prostitute and a 12 year old, and they have no feminine qualities of nurturing.

I feel awful for men born after 1980, especially 1985.
 
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

Easy_C said:
That was stupid Winston, stupid! You should know better than to say a thing like that!
As do you. The goal is NOT to restrain male sexuality, but to ensure that male sexual energy is wasted and dissipated....hence the reason they've been pushing pornography and male masturbation aids.

It's about disempowering males, because every example in history of an effective rebellion was the result of alpha males banding together when the time was right. When you feminize the males, depriving them of their aggression and getting them to deplete their masculine energy into a napkin(or a fleshlight, or a sexbot) you make them more submissive and ensure that they will embrace their role as slaves.

So no. Expect the elite to embrace the spread of sexbots and help it along.

Flame bait? Cute quote, but doesn't work here. The notion that some intangible "masculine energy" is "depleted" from masturbation has been disproven by science time and time again (sources cited in article):

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/02/0222_060222_sex.html
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/10/health/sex-athletes/


There are minimal benefits to abstinence (complete abstinence):
http://examine.com/faq/does-ejaculation-affect-testosterone-levels/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760788
But those effects drop off after a period of time (note acute as opposed to chronic abstinence)


I mean, if you want to take the Eastern or "Natural" medicine argument, there is the Taoist concept of jing that is depleted on finishing:
http://www.askdrmao.com/questions-and-answers/masturbation-depletes-vital-male-energy/
, but scientists have also found that prolonged periods of abstinence ( > 3 months) actually drop your levels (see source cited in Nat'l Geographic link)



And the notion that who (or what, lol) you have sex with "feminizes" you is a laughable one at best. Honestly, there are more valid conspiracy theories in the BPA/xenoestrogens in your food, water, and plastics has created a greater attribution to a generational drop in testosterone levels.
 

Easy_C

Crow
RE: Feminism Prompts MGTOW Group To Stop Dating Women

ManVsMachine said:
Flame bait? Cute quote, but doesn't work here. The notion that some intangible "masculine energy" is "depleted" from masturbation has been disproven by science time and time again (sources cited in article):
Step 1: Go to the lifestyle sub forum.

Step 2: Read the "nofap" thread and look at the results other dudes have had as soon as they stopped masturbating.

There are minimal benefits to abstinence (complete abstinence):
http://examine.com/faq/does-ejaculation-...ne-levels/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11760788
But those effects drop off after a period of time (note acute as opposed to chronic abstinence)
You're setting up a convenient strawman founded in a false dilemma fallacy.

No, your options are not just complete abstinence or masturbation. You'd know better than that from experience if you had the discipline to quit jacking off.
 
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