Derek Chauvin Trial

Izad

Chicken
I'm having difficulty calling this case. I think most likely Chauvin will go down, what degree I'm not sure of.
People need to understand that the drug defence "he was going to die anyways" will not work. The law says that if you shoot a man falling from a skyscraper and the bullet kills him, its still murder.

View attachment 30108
What is “hooping” you ask? It’s shoving your drugs up your ass to get higher .

More likely, he was telling the officer that the reason he's sweaty was because he was playing basketball earlier.
 

M'bare

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I'm having difficulty calling this case. I think most likely Chauvin will go down, what degree I'm not sure of.
People need to understand that the drug defence "he was going to die anyways" will not work. The law says that if you shoot a man falling from a skyscraper and the bullet kills him, its still murder.



More likely, he was telling the officer that the reason he's sweaty was because he was playing basketball earlier.

Nah. The only reason they'll convict Chauvin will be because they need to have their scapegoat. Chauvin appeared callous in the situation that was broadcasted, but that doesn't take away from the video they kept hidden for 3 months of Floyd saying he couldn't breathe beforehand, and was likely already on his way to full blown cardiac arrest. Gotta understand, people can start having symptoms of a heart attack that can turn into a deadly rhythm if not treated over any given amount of time. It just depends on a number of factors. It doesn't often happen all at once, grasping at the chest then slumping over stuff.

A combo of respiratory depressing drug overdose, plus the struggle, plus a cardiac event led to his death. Not the position. There was no pressure on both of his carotids nor his windpipe, and doubtful enough weight on his back to impede his ability to breath.

The police department and city would love to scapegoat him as well, to cover for the fact that they used israeli forces to teach them this kind of position to put people in.

Any kind of conviction of Chauvin will not be in line with justice from my perspective. There are many other people who signed off on this kind of training, and the other condition of Floyd cannot be ignored.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Here's my prediction on what will happen. They will find Evil White Man (i.e. White Supremacist) guilty on all charges, and in a striking development, will sentence him to death. In fact, because he's such an evil White Supremacist, they will bring back public hanging for this one special case. MSNBC, CNN, PBS, and NBC will broadcast it live. Heck, even FOX will carry the feed, but their anchor (preferably a Latino Woman) will caution that this is not what the Constitution allows. While it will be held publicly, the CDC and Fauci will only bless the event if it has the appropriate social distancing and masks. OnlyFans, Coke, and Capital One will sponsor it, and the lucky few vaccinated will be able to attend the Johnson&Johnson Party Tent.

At the actual moment of hanging, everyone will be required to kneel and raise their right fist in solidarity with our black brothers and sisters, and when the White Supremacist is finally dead, Kamala will unveil the new American Anthem, which is actually WAP, and Cardi B will rap it while twerking on-top of the dead body of the White Supremacist.
I wrote a short story that shares a similar concept:
 

M'bare

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Nah. The only reason they'll convict Chauvin will be because they need to have their scapegoat. Chauvin appeared callous in the situation that was broadcasted, but that doesn't take away from the video they kept hidden for 3 months of Floyd saying he couldn't breathe beforehand, and was likely already on his way to full blown cardiac arrest. Gotta understand, people can start having symptoms of a heart attack that can turn into a deadly rhythm if not treated over any given amount of time. It just depends on a number of factors. It doesn't often happen all at once, grasping at the chest then slumping over stuff.

A combo of respiratory depressing drug overdose, plus the struggle, plus a cardiac event led to his death. Not the position. There was no pressure on both of his carotids nor his windpipe, and doubtful enough weight on his back to impede his ability to breath.

The police department and city would love to scapegoat him as well, to cover for the fact that they used israeli forces to teach them this kind of position to put people in.

Any kind of conviction of Chauvin will not be in line with justice from my perspective. There are many other people who signed off on this kind of training, and the other condition of Floyd cannot be ignored.

I'd add:

All of this on the defenses side would "work" in a just system. Your example is a false equivalence and not taking things as they are. The only reason he'll be convicted, and my opinion obviously not being in the court room to weigh all details, is that well...as we know we don't live in a just system based on facts, reason and evidence.
 

Dusty

Peacock
Gold Member
From Legal Insurrection.

Today marks a week and a half since the state has begun presenting their case in chief, and they have yet to nail down a key issue in this case—what, exactly, caused Floyd’s death?

We know they don’t believe that Chauvin intentionally killed Floyd, because Chauvin is not charged with an intentional killing—all the various charges against him, including the odd use of the term “murder” preferred by Minnesota, are unintentional killing crimes, at worst (e.g., felony murder, reckless homicide).

They sometimes suggest in passing Floyd was killed asphyxia, lack of oxygen to his tissues, perhaps induced by Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck, or pressure placed on Floyd’s body, or by positional asphyxia or purported failure to place Floyd in the so-called “recovery position.”

The problem with this approach is two-fold. First, it’s impossible to determine with any degree of certainty, much less beyond a reasonable doubt, that any of the physical actions of the officers, including Chauvin’s knee in the absence of any sign of leg trauma, actually caused any degree of asphyxia. One can speculate that cause and effect, but speculation does not get one to proof beyond a reasonable doubt—at least not in the context of an evidence-based alternative explanation for asphyxia.

And that’s the second problem with this approach. That alternative explanation is, of course, Floyd’s three-fold fatal levels of fentanyl. Fentanyl overdose kills by inducing asphyxia, because of the drug’s effect on suppressing respiratory function, as well as inducing foaming in the lungs. And the only person responsible for Floyd’s ingestion of overdose levels of fentanyl is Floyd.

To say, then, that Floyd died of asphyxia—as the state did yesterday through the testimony of emergency room physician Langenfeld—does nothing at all to direct fault to Chauvin or the other officers involved, and away from Floyd, because it is at least as likely—arguably far more likely—that this asphyxiation was the result of Floyd’s own conduct, not the conduct of the officers involved. That doesn’t get us to proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, or anything close to it.

Indeed, unlike Floyd, the officers could have no clear idea of exactly what Floyd had shoved into his mouth an ingested, what drugs he might have taken and still have in his system shortly before contact by police, how frequently and recently Floyd had been using or been “clean,” what Floyd’s tolerance to any given dose of drug might be, what co-morbidities—such as severe hypertension, cardiac disease, and cardiac artery occlusion—Floyd might be suffering from, and other factors that played as decisive a role, or a greater role, in Floyd’s demise than anything any of the officers did in the course of making Floyd’s lawful arrest.

At some point the prosecution is going to have to present evidence of the precise mechanism by which they believe Chauvin killed Floyd, that this purported mechanism of death was not otherwise lawful conduct by Chauvin, and that this purported mechanism of death is proven beyond a reasonable doubt despite the presence of perfectly obvious and evidence-supported alternative explanations for Floyd’s death that place no fault on the officers.

Will that day be today? Will that day ever come?
 
I know this is irrelevant. But what kind of soy boy hair cut is that? How can you take this man seriously?
I can answer: that's actually 'pencil neck' Adam Levine of Maroon 5 fame.

But in all seriousness that's how arts lecturers and cultural types dress when any chance of being a genuine Alpha or a Chad is long gone and they are now aspiring to being the next best thing: a 'cultural, intellectual' Chad in decadent metropolitan circles a la Marx, Baudrillard, Foucault, Engels etc..

Rowader's big achievement before (((Jacob Frey))) picked him?


"When Jim Rowader joined Target in 1994, only two minority lawyers were working at the retail giant. But that has changed dramatically in the last twenty-three years. Now, Rowader (who is half Puerto Rican) leads a large team of attorneys, paralegals, and HR professionals that provide all of the labor and employment legal services to the corporation. More than twenty of Rowader’s team members are racial or ethnic minorities. About two-thirds are women. And the company is also ranked number twenty-two on The DiversityInc Top 50 Companies for Diversity. (*an award that seemingly manages to shoehorn the word Diversity into its nomenclature not just once but twice...)"
 

FactusIRX

Kingfisher
I wrote a short story that shares a similar concept:
Very good story. I would enjoy a Roosh anthology of short stories.
 

BiggNastee

Woodpecker
Don’t get me wrong, I certainly don’t mean to dismiss that but I’m thinking in terms of probability. Nowadays, what do you think the chance is that a black police chief is woke versus a white one? Especially in a big city? I’d go 95% on the former and 50/50 on the latter. And I would imagine the ones that are in those types of positions are elevated there because they hold specific views and are willing to act on them in an administrative and opportunistic capacity. That capacity being creating what I imagine the South African police force looks and acts like.

Point being, if you’re a cop and your chief is black, it’s more likely that you’re dealing with a Marxist cog in the machine than if the chief is white. That being the case, you’d be wise to assume you have a target on your back rather than a chief willing to defend it. That doesn’t mean I’m defending or ignoring their white persecutors.
I just made it through 10 minutes of the Officer Tatum show (or whatever it's called). I respect him and he layer it put perfect. Until he said the DEFENSE had to prove his innocence. That is not how it works. I'm getting very frustrated
 

bucky

Ostrich
I just made it through 10 minutes of the Officer Tatum show (or whatever it's called). I respect him and he layer it put perfect. Until he said the DEFENSE had to prove his innocence. That is not how it works. I'm getting very frustrated
That's not how it's supposed to work in an Anglo-Saxon country, at least. On the other hand, it's not surprising that a serious commentator would state what is the de facto truth in this case. As the heritage populations of the US and the rest of the Anglosphere are increasingly marginalized and demonized we'll continue to see more of this kind of thing, where beliefs and practices that used to be considered normal in our countries change and fall more in line with the standards of the rest of the world, where, for example, it is actually up to the defense to prove lack of guilt.
 
That's not how it's supposed to work in an Anglo-Saxon country, at least. On the other hand, it's not surprising that a serious commentator would state what is the de facto truth in this case. As the heritage populations of the US and the rest of the Anglosphere are increasingly marginalized and demonized we'll continue to see more of this kind of thing, where beliefs and practices that used to be considered normal in our countries change and fall more in line with the standards of the rest of the world, where, for example, it is actually up to the defense to prove lack of guilt.
These people were never part of our culture, did not share or even understand our traditions, legal or otherwise, and were never part of the composite nation. This includes even those who are friendly to us and I would consider sympathetic allies in a legal sense or even spiritual allies from a Christian viewpoint. It doesn’t matter that they speak English or were born here, they still don’t speak our language. We can say the same words to each other and they may mean different things when heard.

I don’t say that in a hateful or condescending sense, but just an observation of reality. It’s the Tower of Babel repeated. It makes me sad for the country but as a Christian it’s actually a bit comforting and kind of amusing. The edifice that the people up top are trying to build using the rest of us beneath them will come apart. Probably some rough times in the interim though.
 

Dusty

Peacock
Gold Member

Legal Insurrection is the only outlet I’ve found that is commenting on the actual evidence of this case. I watched as little of Chauvin’s attorney cross examining the prosecutions witnesses, and he has been quietly destroying them. At first I thought he’s a great lawyer (the police union is paying him) but then I realized the evidence is so trumped up, any competent lawyer would look great.

The MSM :alien: is cherry picking and spinning, leaving the public with a false perception of what is happening in this trial. For example, the doctor who pronounced Floyd dead testified that he thought Floyd died from asphyxia. So the media is reporting that, as if the case is over, it proves Chauvin choked Floyd to death. But what they aren’t reporting, is under cross, Chauvin’s lawyer got this doctor to admit that signs of asphyxia are what one would expect from a fentanyl overdose.

From Legal Insurrection:

OVERVIEW: “911? I’D LIKE TO REPORT A MURDER.”

Today was a terrible, horrible no good, very bad day for the prosecution, to a degree that I haven’t seen since the trial of George Zimmerman.

If you have no more than an hour to watch the video of today’s proceedings, then I urge you to spend 44 minutes watching the cross-examination of state witness Johnny Mercil, the state’s use-of-forced thi training expert, and 22 minutes watching the cross-examination of Nicole MacKenzie, the state’s medical care training expert. In both instances the result can only be called a train wreck of a disaster for the prosecution.

Indeed, after the judge dismissed Mercil from the witness stand, Prosecutor Schleiter appeared visibly shaken and angry—and he ought to have, given the mauling his case just received. At one point Mercil testified the he himself had personally kept a suspect physically restrained until EMS had arrived on scene, behavior which the state has been arguing for over a week was misconduct on the part of Chauvin.

Even worse, not only did the cross-examination of MacKenzie by the defense also go badly for the prosecution, it went so badly that Nelson informed the court that he intended to re-call MacKenzie as a defense witness when he presented his case in chief.

....

The state’s own use-of-force expert testified on cross that he personally had engaged in use-of-force conduct that the state had been using to demonize Chauvin as an unlawful killer. That’s not a good day for the state.

....

that all sounds bad enough for the prosecution, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

It was at this point that Nelson showed Mercil a series of photographs captured from the body worn camera of Officer Lane, and showing Chauvin’s knee on Floyd from the angle down Floyd’s proned body.

Photo 1: Where’s Chauvin’s leg in this image? On Floyd’s neck? Or on his shoulder blades and back. Mercil: Shoulder blades and back.

And in photo 2? Same. Photo 3? Same. Photo 4? Same.

This, of course, fundamentally undercuts the prosecution’s narrative of guilt that it was Chauvin’s knee on Floyd’s neck that killed Floyd.

Are there circumstances like those already discussed where would be appropriate to maintain presence of leg across shoulder blades and back in order to ensure control of the suspect? Yes, there are, Mercil answered. For as long as 10 minutes? It’s possible.

Ouch.

In other words, the use of the restraint can be justified not only to compel compliance of the suspect in the first place, but to ensure that the suspect maintains compliance moving forward—especially given the experience and concern that unconscious suspects can revive and be even more violent than they were prior, even if that restraint is being held in place for as long as 10 minutes. And that’s not just for the safety of the officer, but also for the officer’s partners, for bystanders, and even for the suspect himself.

Just devastating for the state’s narrative, and all of it coming from the state’s own MPD use of force expert.
 
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Transsimian

Ostrich
Gold Member
More likely, he was telling the officer that the reason he's sweaty was because he was playing basketball earlier.
I have never heard of a 6'4" Black man playing basketball before.

It's far more likely the cop-fearing ex-felon was using obscure slang to honestly confess to cops about his drug use.

I think Floyd's blood is on the media's hands. They hype up the risk the police present to Black men¹, and pay little attention to the risks of overdose². Based on the erranous information he had, he thought it'd be safer to guzzle down a lethal amount of drugs, then be caught with drugs by the police.

¹ ~20 Black deaths per year
² ~70,000 deaths per year
 

bucky

Ostrich
Ann Coulter echoing my observation of this trial.


Good article. Ann is pretty funny, as usual:
Week One was chock-a-block with weeping bystanders wailing about how they felt watching Chauvin restrain Floyd. This would be tremendous evidence if the charge against Officer Chauvin were “first-degree upsetting bystanders.”
I don't know much about criminal trials, but if these witnesses really were there to state how they felt, I don't understand why such testimony is even allowed.

And a few facts I wasn't aware of:
Genevieve was totally on top of the situation. In her statement to investigators shortly after the event, she described Floyd as a “small, slim man.” Floyd was at least 6-foot-4 and weighed 230 pounds. The largest police officer on the scene was Chauvin, coming in at 5-foot-9 and 140 pounds. Genevieve missed nothing!
 
I don't know much about criminal trials, but if these witnesses really were there to state how they felt, I don't understand why such testimony is even allowed
It shouldn’t be relevant, but the legal system is broken and this stuff gets a jury emotionally involved. Also the trial is televised.

Basically the prosecution has to show a criminal act, the requisite level of intent, a body, and a causal relationship between these. Eliciting testimony of the emotions that some bystanders experienced as spectators to an event is a circus sideshow unless it’s somehow supposed to be connected to demonstrating one of the above. Maybe if it was in connection with his intent, but beats me.
 
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