Derek Chauvin Trial

Eusebius Erasmus

Woodpecker
I'm not defending Chauvin. If the cop tells you to get in the car after you've been cuffed, and you refuse, you are resisting arrest.

So it's okay for the cop to put his knee on your head in response?

COP: "Please sir, get in the car."

YOU: "No."

COP: *Squeezes your neck

This is an Israeli police tactic that is used with Palestinians, not something American cops should be doing.
 

Renzy

Pelican
Floyd was arrested for passing a $20 counterfeit bill -- not that big of a deal.

Floyd didn't resist arrest, and there was no reason for Chauvin to use force on his neck (a move the police probably learned from the Israelis, as E. Michael Jones attests).

Making an excessive deal out of this situation, claiming that there is systemic police racism, and promoting BLM is evil -- but it's ridiculous to claim that Chauvin did nothing wrong.

Floyd didn't resist arrest.

Wrong. That is factually incorrect. Watch the full video:


Floyd did resist arrest. Repeatedly. In fact, the officers spent around 10 minutes telling him over and over to get into the police car and take a seat. Instead of following their directions he resisted to the point they had to get on both sides of the police car so one could shove him in through the door while the officer on the other side of the car pulled him onto the seat. Go to 9:45 in the video to see what I mean.

At 10:11, when they finally managed to pull him into the backseat of the car he again claims that he can't breathe. Then Floyd appears to use his legs to shove his way back out of the car and says "I'm gonna lay down" repeatedly. Then the police try once again, unsuccessfully, to try and get him back into the car before finally giving up and just having him lay on the ground where he then proceeds to flail his legs around.

I don't know what video you watched but nothing in the video I posted looks like a cooperative suspect who was following directions.
 
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Enoch

Ostrich
So it's okay for the cop to put his knee on your head in response?

COP: "Please sir, get in the car."

YOU: "No."

COP: *Squeezes your neck

This is an Israeli police tactic that is used with Palestinians, not something American cops should be doing.
Like I said, I'm not defending Chauvin's conduct. I am stating that George Floyd unambiguously resisted arrest.

I look forward to the trial when Chauvin's lawyer presents the police training for dealing with known violent felons who resist arrest. Hint: it's very rough.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Woodpecker
I look forward to the trial when Chauvin's lawyer presents the police training for dealing with known violent felons who resist arrest. Hint: it's very rough.
Yes, the way the Israelis deal with Palestinians is rough and disproportionate.

The fact that the American police are being influenced by unhinged Israeli police tactics is unsurprising — something EMJ notes.

Doesn’t make Chauvin a good guy. He’s no Kyle Rittenhouse.
 

DanielH

Pelican
Derek Chauvin has been divorced, slandered, threatened, reputation ruined, and fired, which has permanently destroyed his career. Nobody will ever hire him again even if he's exonerated, except maybe those construction workers Roosh worked for. He's suffered enough for using a department approved tactic on a perp who was resisting arrest.
 

stugatz

Pelican
I'm definitely far from loving cops, as I've known too many in my life - lived with one for a while, in fact. Too many get drunk on the authority, and the sappy worship the conservative base has thrown at them since the 1980s (maybe before, too?) hasn't helped at all. We need them, sure, but they're not automatically heroes for being cops.

I saw the video some time ago. I'd say that Floyd was acting like a danger to himself and others and needed to be taken in for that reason alone - resisting arrest just made it worse. I don't have any problem with what Chauvin did initially, as he was doing what he was taught to subdue him.

But kneeling on him for over EIGHT minutes? Was that necessary? Even if it's a non-lethal action, why do it?

His actions probably wouldn't have killed a healthy person (and he had no way of knowing Floyd was health disaster) so this is a tricky one. Initially, I was in favor of Minnesota's third degree murder charge, which is when you hurt a person maliciously, but don't necessarily intend to kill them - you have an indifferent "if he dies, he dies" mentality. Comparatively, second degree murder is intentional homicide that isn't premeditated, and manslaughter is an accidental killing that has various degrees of severity.

Now I have no clue. Involuntary manslaughter, sure, with maybe an excessive force charge tacked on top of that. Although I don't know what kind of involuntary manslaughter charge "I didn't know he was on death's door!" would get him. There's no way this is second degree murder, though - I wonder if Keith Ellison intentionally wanted to choose a charge that would fail.

EDIT: Apologies if this seems like a 180 in tone from the last posts I made on this subject - I did rewatch the Floyd video just to recap and had forgotten a lot of details. Overall, I'm fine if Chauvin walks, since this is all so vague, and being a less than ideal cop isn't illegal. Take my opinions with a grain of salt, too - as I live a little too close to Minneapolis for comfort, I may subconsciously just want this crap to end peacefully so I can live my life without dealing with protests in my suburb. If he gets the book thrown at him, I'd probably breathe a sigh of relief, and I feel bad about that.
 
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BiggNastee

Woodpecker
Yes, the way the Israelis deal with Palestinians is rough and disproportionate.

The fact that the American police are being influenced by unhinged Israeli police tactics is unsurprising — something EMJ notes.

Doesn’t make Chauvin a good guy. He’s no Kyle Rittenhouse.
Your tolling would be better received on reddit. Stop with the Israeli BS unless you have meaningful content. It's easy to see through and then to throw Kyle Rittenhouse in there is very weak. No rhyme or reason to your posts. Just trying to get a reaction.

Be gone.
 

Eusebius Erasmus

Woodpecker
Your tolling would be better received on reddit. Stop with the Israeli BS unless you have meaningful content. It's easy to see through and then to throw Kyle Rittenhouse in there is very weak. No rhyme or reason to your posts. Just trying to get a reaction.

Be gone.

There is no need to be emotional. My source on the Israel connection is E. Michael Jones:

https://culturewars.com/podcasts/riots-race-religion-and-revolution

Derek Chauvin’s behaviour in this case was disproportionate. He’s no hero.

The response to Chauvin’s misdeed was also disproportionate. These two claims aren’t mutually exclusive.
 
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Having watched the whole bodycam video of Floyd's arrest and death, I never heard nor saw anything from the police officers to suggest it was racially motivated. For instance, I didn't hear them using racial slurs or make any reference to the fact that Floyd was black. Yet, it just seems to be accepted as a given that his race played apart in Chauvin's behavior but I'm curious as to how they could prove that.
I agree that there's no evidence. And by the laws of evidence the racial angle should not play a part in the trial.

However I think that many cops do go harder on black suspects ... for good reason. They expect more and harder pushback. Especially if there's even a slight chance that the black is on drugs that make you even harder to subdue. Jews, of course, want to turn "good reason" into "worst reason in the world" and can hang their hat on "Muh Equality". Is it "equality" to go harder on one group because your range of expected outcomes based on your recognition of patterns of that group is different? Well, no. But it's rational.
 

fokm

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Yes, the way the Israelis deal with Palestinians is rough and disproportionate.

The fact that the American police are being influenced by unhinged Israeli police tactics is unsurprising — something EMJ notes.

Doesn’t make Chauvin a good guy. He’s no Kyle Rittenhouse.
My issue with your responses are that you are focusing on Chauvin.

There were 3 other cops. None of them prevented this.

Further, if Chauvin was trained to do so and followed all protocols, then your issue shouldn't be with him but with the policies the police department used.

You imply that is your main issue (by bringing up Israelis) but then you single him out time and time again.

You also were completely wrong in that he wasn't resisting arrest. He was. And last year it was reported that Chauvin knew Floyd. If that's true, and Chauvin knew that Floyd had pointed a loaded gun at a pregnant woman's belly, then I would opine that Chauvin did nothing wrong, even keeping the knee on the neck for 8 minutes. Floyd was a known, dangerous person.

Chauvin was a street cop doing his job as he was trained. If he gets convicted, you will see every day policing further weakened, and this country becomes more dangerous yet again. Nobody but our elites want that.
 

bucky

Ostrich
My issue with your responses are that you are focusing on Chauvin.

There were 3 other cops. None of them prevented this.

Further, if Chauvin was trained to do so and followed all protocols, then your issue shouldn't be with him but with the policies the police department used.

You imply that is your main issue (by bringing up Israelis) but then you single him out time and time again.

You also were completely wrong in that he wasn't resisting arrest. He was. And last year it was reported that Chauvin knew Floyd. If that's true, and Chauvin knew that Floyd had pointed a loaded gun at a pregnant woman's belly, then I would opine that Chauvin did nothing wrong, even keeping the knee on the neck for 8 minutes. Floyd was a known, dangerous person.

Chauvin was a street cop doing his job as he was trained. If he gets convicted, you will see every day policing further weakened, and this country becomes more dangerous yet again. Nobody but our elites want that.
Agreed. How anyone can watch the full video and think the cops were in the wrong is beyond me. OK, anyone who doesn't think in strict terms of "white bad, black good" or ACAB. What were they supposed to do, just let the known violent felon excon who's obviously completely wasted and impaired drive off like that? That was literally the only other option.
 

Renzy

Pelican


Chauvin’s trial is scheduled to start Monday with jury selection. There’s a chance, however, the trial could be delayed if a decision this week from the Minnesota Court of Appeals on reinstating a third-degree murder charge against Chauvin is appealed to the Minnesota Supreme Court.
 

Renzy

Pelican

After facing backlash, the city of Minneapolis has scrapped plans to pay social media influencers to share city-approved messages to combat misinformation during the upcoming trials of the four police officers charged in the killing of George Floyd.

The city faced criticism on social media and from residents and community groups after details about the program were discussed at a Minneapolis City Council meeting Friday.

To combat misinformation. Orwell's Ministry of Truth is looking more prescient every day.

In retrospect, he said, the term "social media influencer" did not reflect "what we are asking of our partners and it caused confusion in the community."

"This was never about trying to persuade or change public opinion about any particular message," he said. "But it was about getting important information out quickly and in an equitable way."

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Under the program, the city would have entered into contracts with six social media influencers who "are considered trusted messengers" with large social media presences to share city-approved messages with the African American, East African, Hmong, Native American and Latino communities, officials said. The influencers would have been paid $2,000 each, city spokeswoman Sarah McKenzie said Monday.
 

Zanardi

Woodpecker


Chauvin’s trial is scheduled to start Monday with jury selection. There’s a chance, however, the trial could be delayed if a decision this week from the Minnesota Court of Appeals on reinstating a third-degree murder charge against Chauvin is appealed to the Minnesota Supreme Court.

I agree with the judge. This is a trial, not a show and I wouldn't want anything that may cause unrest in the court room.
 

Renzy

Pelican


His view is that the big issue in the trial will be determining what the case of death was, and so it will be the autopsy and testimony presented by medical experts (on both sides) that will likely be the deciding factor for how the jury rules. He does concede that Floyd did have "a lot of fentanyl in his system" along with underlying health conditions.
 

fokm

Woodpecker
Gold Member
He does concede that Floyd did have "a lot of fentanyl in his system" along with underlying health conditions.
Actually proving this beyond a reasonable doubt seems impossible.

Forget about any expert testimony or anything like that, the only question the defense has to ask is, "Is it reasonable to believe that Floyd died of an excessive amount of Fentanyl?," while reminding the jurors that Chauvin is not on trial for breaking any police procedures.

I admit I'm conjecturing, but it'll be very interesting to see how this plays out. The burden on the prosecution just seems enormous.
 

Renzy

Pelican
Actually proving this beyond a reasonable doubt seems impossible.

Forget about any expert testimony or anything like that, the only question the defense has to ask is, "Is it reasonable to believe that Floyd died of an excessive amount of Fentanyl?," while reminding the jurors that Chauvin is not on trial for breaking any police procedures.


Handwritten notes of a law enforcement interview with Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, say Floyd had 11 ng/mL of fentanyl in his system.

"If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3," Baker told investigators.

In another new document, Baker said, "That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."
 
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