Do You Deserve A Good Woman?

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
The tl;dr is that a man writes to an advice column about a girl that dumped him for a "bad boy" - the advice he gets is to just accept it and wait until she's older (read: post-wall) and then she'll date him.

LOL, that was unreal, total clown world. She said also, referring to 10-15 years down the line,

And you’re going to be in luck when that happens because you’re going to have your pick of the litter.

It is funny, if not vomit inducing, to understand just how brainless and incapable - or lacking in any attempt to even think about something fairly -that these women are. As you stated, it's as if they presume that women cannot help themselves with the alpha widow syndrome ... even though most women throughout history didn't act this way! So just shut up and take the abuse. And then bail out your "pick of the litter" later so she can win the game, again.
 

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
Brother, I respectfully disagree with you. Have you ever been in a church? Have you gotten active in that church, aside from Sunday morning rituals? There are too many women looking for a good, God-fearing, church attending man. If you dress well and act respectfully, you will get no shortage of interest from women looking to intentionally pair up, and they tend to move fast (I've heard cases of courting starting within a month of initially meeting in the church social setup, followed by an engagement around the 3rd month, and marriage within a year, though 6 months is more usual than not). The older they are, the faster they move (a lot of the good girls tend to be committed, if not married, by 22 years, but not all).

What's the point of waiting for several years if you're both not having sex and both of you know you're only getting older? And as long as you end the courting respectfully if she is not for you, you can continue to remain in church community with limited issues stemming from the "break-up", and a pool of girls who would still date you, aside from her close friends (assuming things didn't get ugly). (I say date, but I really mean courting, because it's "get-to-know each other phase" to see if this can lead to marriage).

The key here is to be involved in the youth/young adults/singles group that the church may offer, NOT with the intent of wife-hunting, but just to be present and available and bond with the church community. And to gently and respectfully reject or pursue the options that may present themselves to you. Another key is to remember being intentional: if you can't see a future with her, don't waste her time, and be upfront about it. Women talk, and being candid gets you a lot of points in the long run, even if it hurts in the moment for her.

I do not have this as lived experience, at all, but I fully admit that may be regional and due to the fact that there are few orthodox people around the US and/or they are ethnically inclined (though religion is almost as strong or equivalent). I don't even know too many examples where this worked out. However, I guess it could be quite good in larger groups or faiths that have many people and outings like I see or hear about in RC or some protestant circles. Still, given I'm from a pretty traditional and ritualistic background, and still see modern americans involved and affected far more by their secular lives, I still find it hard to believe that anyone is meeting any number of 7s just walking around waiting to meet any god-fearing man.
 

infowarrior1

Hummingbird
Brother, I respectfully disagree with you. Have you ever been in a church? Have you gotten active in that church, aside from Sunday morning rituals? There are too many women looking for a good, God-fearing, church attending man. If you dress well and act respectfully, you will get no shortage of interest from women looking to intentionally pair up, and they tend to move fast (I've heard cases of courting starting within a month of initially meeting in the church social setup, followed by an engagement around the 3rd month, and marriage within a year, though 6 months is more usual than not). The older they are, the faster they move (a lot of the good girls tend to be committed, if not married, by 22 years, but not all).

What's the point of waiting for several years if you're both not having sex and both of you know you're only getting older? And as long as you end the courting respectfully if she is not for you, you can continue to remain in church community with limited issues stemming from the "break-up", and a pool of girls who would still date you, aside from her close friends (assuming things didn't get ugly). (I say date, but I really mean courting, because it's "get-to-know each other phase" to see if this can lead to marriage).

The key here is to be involved in the youth/young adults/singles group that the church may offer, NOT with the intent of wife-hunting, but just to be present and available and bond with the church community. And to gently and respectfully reject or pursue the options that may present themselves to you. Another key is to remember being intentional: if you can't see a future with her, don't waste her time, and be upfront about it. Women talk, and being candid gets you a lot of points in the long run, even if it hurts in the moment for her.

Maybe there needs to be better matchmaking. To help connect those women looking for God-fearing Men.
 
Great post, thanks for the spiritual encouragement.

I'm a young man (Almost 21) who has never been in a long term relationship, and I can count the amount of dates I've been on with my two hands. But in all honesty, I thank God for it. When I look back and see who I was two or three years ago its very clear to me that I was in no position to get into a relationship. God was using this time in my life to undo the heart of selfishness, and learning to abide in him and become a vessel of HIS will, not mine. He's still using this time, I'm in no way a finished product. There are still aspects of my character that need refining. But now I operate with the mindset of final victory, because I have victory in Christ. As I've focused my efforts away from pursuit of women in the worldly sense, and instead choosing to follow Christ and be a good brother in Christ to both my brothers and sisters, I've found my relationships and ability to connect far greater and more fulfilling.

Does it necessarily mean that I will find someone to start the next chapter of my life? No. But I have a reformed Church that has adopted me into their community, nurturing my soul, a family that has blessed me with spiritual wisdom, and physical wealth so that I need not worry about tomorrow. I have placed my desire for a wife and kids, something I have wanted my whole life, on the altar. God will do with it as he pleases.
But don't you think you should go out and look for a wife? She isn't going to show up on your door step. "He who finds a wife finds a good thing..." means finding by searching, not happenstance. 1 Corinthians 7 will teach you what God wants you to do about finding a wife. Marriage is the grace of life (1 Peter 3:7). The answer isn't hidden, you only need to discern God's will for you in the area of marriage, then pray, watch, and go find this woman. Are you in Matthew 19:12? If not, you know what you need to do.

You are almost 21, that's great. Time may be on your side but at your age, I think marriage should be a top priority. Knowing God's will in this is simple, where you are going to find this wife is much more complicated.

You also do not need to be a finished product to get married. If anything, God uses marriage to help refine most of us into a "finished product". Ultimately, death makes the Christian a finished product. Until then, why not fearlessly and relentlessly look for what you need?
 
Great post, thanks for the spiritual encouragement.

I'm a young man (Almost 21) who has never been in a long term relationship, and I can count the amount of dates I've been on with my two hands. But in all honesty, I thank God for it. When I look back and see who I was two or three years ago its very clear to me that I was in no position to get into a relationship. God was using this time in my life to undo the heart of selfishness, and learning to abide in him and become a vessel of HIS will, not mine. He's still using this time, I'm in no way a finished product. There are still aspects of my character that need refining. But now I operate with the mindset of final victory, because I have victory in Christ. As I've focused my efforts away from pursuit of women in the worldly sense, and instead choosing to follow Christ and be a good brother in Christ to both my brothers and sisters, I've found my relationships and ability to connect far greater and more fulfilling.

Does it necessarily mean that I will find someone to start the next chapter of my life? No. But I have a reformed Church that has adopted me into their community, nurturing my soul, a family that has blessed me with spiritual wisdom, and physical wealth so that I need not worry about tomorrow. I have placed my desire for a wife and kids, something I have wanted my whole life, on the altar. God will do with it as he pleases.
I just wanted to add that while God will do as he pleases, single men still have their part in God accomplishing his will. He says to avoid fornication get married. That is on us to get done, and yes I am fully aware how difficult that seems to be these days. I was without a relationship for 30 years and no, I wasn't in prison. God's will is quite evident-we are to marry unless we are a eunuch or have the spiritual gift of singleness, which probably excludes about everyone in RVF, including myself.

I am very sensitive to the idea of God's will being clear about something, but personal responsibility is downplayed. I used to know a church elder who was in charge of the prayer ministry at a large church. The thing was, while he believed in prayer, he didn't believe in ever actually doing something about accomplishing God's will. I was in such shock and dismay and felt sorrow for the people in the group, that I met with another church elder to ask why in the world this was so. He told me he agreed with me.

To this person, God was going to accomplish his will and ALL we had to do was pray, which makes no sense. Faith without works is DEAD. I can believe that God wants me to marry because I can't stand living without sex and female companionship, but if I don't go and look for this wife then I don't really believe I should get married.

I do wish more churches would try to do something to help struggling singles. I experienced more avoidance than help in finding someone. No one ever seems to know of good single women in churches, at least when I was single, and I would ask around.

Anyway, don't get too comfortable waiting on God, unless you are going to hustle while you wait. Pray-Watch-Act.
 
Maybe there needs to be better matchmaking. To help connect those women looking for God-fearing Men.
Worth a try, but I continue to believe the problem is not a lack of good, marriage-worthy men. If christian girls are claiming they can't find a man, I suspect it's a hypergamy issue, not I supply issue.

In secular society, hypergamy results in women just sharing the alphas. They don't face any consequences from that until they hit the wall. I wonder if, in christian circles, they get the tingles for a christian alpha, and when he gets married they just can't bring themselves to settle for whatever men are left.

Alternately, I wonder how many christian girls have non-christian male "friends" that they get tingles for, even if they manage to resist acting on it.
 
I just wanted to add that while God will do as he pleases, single men still have their part in God accomplishing his will. He says to avoid fornication get married. That is on us to get done, and yes I am fully aware how difficult that seems to be these days. I was without a relationship for 30 years and no, I wasn't in prison. God's will is quite evident-we are to marry unless we are a eunuch or have the spiritual gift of singleness, which probably excludes about everyone in RVF, including myself.

I am very sensitive to the idea of God's will being clear about something, but personal responsibility is downplayed. I used to know a church elder who was in charge of the prayer ministry at a large church. The thing was, while he believed in prayer, he didn't believe in ever actually doing something about accomplishing God's will. I was in such shock and dismay and felt sorrow for the people in the group, that I met with another church elder to ask why in the world this was so. He told me he agreed with me.

To this person, God was going to accomplish his will and ALL we had to do was pray, which makes no sense. Faith without works is DEAD. I can believe that God wants me to marry because I can't stand living without sex and female companionship, but if I don't go and look for this wife then I don't really believe I should get married.

I do wish more churches would try to do something to help struggling singles. I experienced more avoidance than help in finding someone. No one ever seems to know of good single women in churches, at least when I was single, and I would ask around.

Anyway, don't get too comfortable waiting on God, unless you are going to hustle while you wait. Pray-Watch-Act.

I agree. I completely understand where Roosh is coming from and it is a great article. Basically you have to have your house in order (in this case, your christian spiritual life) before even thinking about women. However, once you do get your Spiritual life in order, ie pray for half hour to an hour a day, attend church on Sundays, Holy Days of Obligation, first Fridays, First Saturdays, attend Holy Eucharist Hour at least monthly, and your virtue is high etc, what then? Do we hope that a woman appears to us and be wowed by our Zeal for God? As you mentioned, faith without works is dead, and just hoping that a woman will acknowledge our piety and be our future wife almost seems Protestant to me and quiet frankly, the idea that a woman will be "wowed" by our piety doesnt sit well(We must be doing all of that for God as Roosh rightly points out). At some point, we will have to go up to women that we believe are pious as well. I still consider myself a spiritual novice and admittedly, I struggle still with this question, because on the one hand, I agree that in my case, I still have a lot of learning to do in regards to faith. However, I am wary of the notion that a woman will just "appear" to me without me putting any effort in pursuing her...No, i am not saying I do not trust God's plan for me, however, I do believe I have to put ACTION as well in order to complete His plan, not simply "sit back" because I have achieved a certain level of Faith & Virtue. Perhaps once my piety is at a certain level, then this will all make sense to me...for now, I agree with Roosh on the notion that we must be at a certain level in our spiritual lives before expecting women to pay any attention to us. Of course we shouldn't have expected a good woman during our sinful days. Some of us indeed did and proceeded to ruin her...However, "not worrying about getting a woman" say once we are at a certain level of piety is still a hard concept for me to wrap my head around, and perhaps that's a sign I need to continue my learning of the Faith and increase my time in prayer.



Worth a try, but I continue to believe the problem is not a lack of good, marriage-worthy men. If christian girls are claiming they can't find a man, I suspect it's a hypergamy issue, not I supply issue.

In secular society, hypergamy results in women just sharing the alphas. They don't face any consequences from that until they hit the wall. I wonder if, in christian circles, they get the tingles for a christian alpha, and when he gets married they just can't bring themselves to settle for whatever men are left.

Alternately, I wonder how many christian girls have non-christian male "friends" that they get tingles for, even if they manage to resist acting on it.

This is not really a hypergamy example, but more of high expectations (perhaps too high)

I know of a traditional Catholic woman who is 35 years old and has yet to find a man to marry. Her 36th birthday is in less than a years time and she doesn't seem in a rush at all to find a man... I flat out asked her why she was 35,"traditional" yet not married. From what she told me, she dated a few men over the years. She had an excuse as for why the men she mentioned didnt work out. I wont go into detail but basically, it could be summed up as A) they didnt meet her expectations(which are high for a 35 year old), or B) they wanted to have sex before marriage (she is still a virgin). She also told me that "some men even asked for marriage" but she declined, in one instance because a man did a certain type of work that was "too rural" for her taste. She has no sense of urgency and wasnt worried about her fertility at all, even though she told me she wants MULTIPLE children (at least 3) The fact that she was 35 did not phase her in the slightest. Meanwhile I consider her to be pious and knowledgeable of the faith. I am considering in gently urging her to find a man asap because of her biological clock.

The point of the story is to highlight that some women in these traditional circles may be setting their expectations too high, to the point of their detriment where they end up in their mid to late 30s, still hoping and praying that a man appears in front of them, where the opportunity was literally right in front of them, but they failed to take it. This sort of ties in to my above mentioned response that we must take action and discern when there is a good opportunity. I know this is only one anecdotal story, and I do not post it to ridicule her, but it stuck with me because I consider this woman to be at a high level spiritually, but her expectations are so high, that she is now almost biologically infertile, and has no worry in the world about it. Perhaps she will meet a man soon AND have multiple children by God's grace. However, I think it is best we use our best judgement while acting out God's will, if that makes sense and NOT test Him, say by example in this case, a woman waiting till her biological clock is almost over... If I had a daughter, I would not want her to be 35 and childless (if her goal in life was marriage & not become a nun)

To me, the male equivalent of this story would be that a 25 year old woman presents herself to us, we get to know her, etc. She is pious, attends church weekly, etc etc. However, you find out she had "fun" in college, and perhaps has a notch count in the teens, maybe a tattoo or two and SOME debt. Because we now expect virgins without tattoos and 0 debt, we may just overlook this woman and wait till we find the "perfect" or "ideal" woman, ie a virgin, 18-22 age range and impeccable. If we put these high and unrealistic expectations in our heads, we will find ourselves single for a very long time.

Looks like I rambled alot, but if anyone has any similar thoughts or stories to share, please do so.
 
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I agree. I completely understand where Roosh is coming from and it is a great article. Basically you have to have your house in order (in this case, your christian spiritual life) before even thinking about women. However, once you do get your Spiritual life in order, ie pray for half hour to an hour a day, attend church on Sundays, Holy Days of Obligation, first Fridays, First Saturdays, attend Holy Eucharist Hour at least monthly, and your virtue is high etc, what then? Do we hope that a woman appears to us and be wowed by our Zeal for God? As you mentioned, faith without works is dead, and just hoping that a woman will acknowledge our piety and be our future wife almost seems Protestant to me and quiet frankly, the idea that a woman will be "wowed" by our piety doesnt sit well(We must be doing all of that for God as Roosh rightly points out). At some point, we will have to go up to women that we believe are pious as well. I still consider myself a spiritual novice and admittedly, I struggle still with this question, because on the one hand, I agree that in my case, I still have a lot of learning to do in regards to faith. However, I am wary of the notion that a woman will just "appear" to me without me putting any effort in pursuing her...No, i am not saying I do not trust God's plan for me, however, I do believe I have to put ACTION as well in order to complete His plan, not simply "sit back" because I have achieved a certain level of Faith & Virtue. Perhaps once my piety is at a certain level, then this will all make sense to me...for now, I agree with Roosh on the notion that we must be at a certain level in our spiritual lives before expecting women to pay any attention to us. Of course we shouldn't have expected a good woman during our sinful days. Some of us indeed did and proceeded to ruin her...However, "not worrying about getting a woman" say once we are at a certain level of piety is still a hard concept for me to wrap my head around, and perhaps that's a sign I need to continue my learning of the Faith and increase my time in prayer.





This is not really a hypergamy example, but more of high expectations (perhaps too high)

I know of a traditional Catholic woman who is 35 years old and has yet to find a man to marry. Her 36th birthday is in less than a years time and she doesn't seem in a rush at all to find a man... I flat out asked her why she was 35,"traditional" yet not married. From what she told me, she dated a few men over the years. She had an excuse as for why the men she mentioned didnt work out. I wont go into detail but basically, it could be summed up as A) they didnt meet her expectations(which are high for a 35 year old), or B) they wanted to have sex before marriage (she is still a virgin). She also told me that "some men even asked for marriage" but she declined, in one instance because a man did a certain type of work that was "too rural" for her taste. She has no sense of urgency and wasnt worried about her fertility at all, even though she told me she wants MULTIPLE children (at least 3) The fact that she was 35 did not phase her in the slightest. Meanwhile I consider her to be pious and knowledgeable of the faith. I am considering in gently urging her to find a man asap because of her biological clock.

The point of the story is to highlight that some women in these traditional circles may be setting their expectations too high, to the point of their detriment where they end up in their mid to late 30s, still hoping and praying that a man appears in front of them, where the opportunity was literally right in front of them, but they failed to take it. This sort of ties in to my above mentioned response that we must take action and discern when there is a good opportunity. I know this is only one anecdotal story, and I do not post it to ridicule her, but it stuck with me because I consider this woman to be at a high level spiritually, but her expectations are so high, that she is now almost biologically infertile, and has no worry in the world about it. Perhaps she will meet a man soon AND have multiple children by God's grace. However, I think it is best we use our best judgement while acting out God's will, if that makes sense and NOT test Him, say by example in this case, a woman waiting till her biological clock is almost over... If I had a daughter, I would not want her to be 35 and childless (if her goal in life was marriage & not become a nun)

To me, the male equivalent of this story would be that a 25 year old woman presents herself to us, we get to know her, etc. She is pious, attends church weekly, etc etc. However, you find out she had "fun" in college, and perhaps has a notch count in the teens, maybe a tattoo or two and SOME debt. Because we now expect virgins without tattoos and 0 debt, we may just overlook this woman and wait till we find the "perfect" or "ideal" woman, ie a virgin, 18-22 age range and impeccable. If we put these high and unrealistic expectations in our heads, we will find ourselves single for a very long time.

Looks like I rambled alot, but if anyone has any similar thoughts or stories to share, please do so.
I think you said it well. Having standards but not having them be unrealistic is something to think long and hard about. Being married will bring out the worst in you. I am married and know now what I am really like and my wife I am sure sees herself differently too. We have to be patient with each other. There are no perfect people or perfect marriages. The best preparation for marriage is probably marriage. It is hard to prepare for until you are in it. Have to keep learning of course but there is a huge difference between practice and playing in the games.
 
Maybe there needs to be better matchmaking. To help connect those women looking for God-fearing Men.
We see modern women as godless, but how many of our young men are ruled by pride and arrogance? In the circles of those who have truly embraced God, there really is a shortage of young men. It may not be much, but it's enough to keep women on their toes and "husband-up" the best prospects that come before someone else does. Some women (and men) join/remain in these circles for that purpose, which isn't the right way to go about it either. People need to pray and discern before they make a life-long commitment.

I live in a major city. Definitely left wing sentiments here. But it hasn't really penetrated the churches. No shame in shopping around till you find a group that meets your spiritual needs. Or to attend church on Sunday, another youth group on Sunday evening, and another church's Bible study on a weeknight. Do what works for you and keep seeking the truth.

As for why I am single and opining on RVF: I come from an ethnic community with traditional, overbearing parents, who expect me to give them a daughter-in-law and grandchildren that look like them and talk like them (or at least understand what they are saying). That's a burden I have to face in this life, and I have come to terms with it, even though it has meant forsaking most women from the outset of my search for a life partner to meet a very narrow criteria of a specific ethnic, religious, and socioeconomic flavor. There's less than 0.005% of all women on earth who comprise my pool of eligible candidates (accounting for ethnicity, age, and religion, but not accounting for looks and personality).

I might be an "ethnic", but I see the attention I get in English churches and young-adults' groups when I do attend (I mainly attend a cultural one with my family), and it really is because the women in the Christian circles just want to be married to a church-going man. Bonus if he's tall, decent looking, educated, has a job, etc. And my family knows this and has worked to keep myself and my siblings out of those circles in the name of cultural preservation. So put yourself out there, don't shirk meetings, have a smile on and be friendly to EVERYONE (kids, old people, guys, girls, parents, etc.). Seek God first, and He will meet your needs in His time.
 
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I do not have this as lived experience, at all, but I fully admit that may be regional and due to the fact that there are few orthodox people around the US and/or they are ethnically inclined (though religion is almost as strong or equivalent). I don't even know too many examples where this worked out. However, I guess it could be quite good in larger groups or faiths that have many people and outings like I see or hear about in RC or some protestant circles. Still, given I'm from a pretty traditional and ritualistic background, and still see modern americans involved and affected far more by their secular lives, I still find it hard to believe that anyone is meeting any number of 7s just walking around waiting to meet any god-fearing man.
When your heart is right with God, you'll see all His daughters as 10s who reflect His image and glory. Why do we rate people from 1 to 10? So we can compare them and elevate them, according to the judgments of our own eyes. So we can satisfy our own ego and pride by telling and/or showing the world that we snagged that 7. With that mentality, even if you did get a 10/10 by worldly scales, how will you react when she puts on weight, get wrinkles, stops wearing makeup, etc.?

Hookup life is easy because we just use bodies and mix body fluids and never have to see a person in their ugliness: we chase the morning breath out of our homes before it can wake us up, we avoid the sights of faces without makeup and ungroomed bodies, the hurts and pains are not our problem, etc. Marriage is about facing the morning breath daily, hearing the unpleasant sounds people can make, seeing hair in unexpected places, wearing unappealing clothes because they're comfortable, watching grey hairs and wrinkles come, etc. It's your responsibility as a man to see her as a 10 and to keep her as a 10: not by the standards of men, but by the standards of God.

So stop doubting and start believing. Get your heart right and go out there, and God will let one of His precious daughters come into your sight. I have nothing to gain by writing lies to you in the early morning hours when I should be sleeping. I've been to these churches and these circles. I know what my male and female friends say in their cities and churches. There are too many single women in the Christian community. And God won't put one in your hand if it will only destroy her in the end. So aim to be better. And what you desire most will come in His perfect time.
 
This isn’t going to be a popular reply. But I post it anyway.

While I don’t doubt Roosh’ sincerity behind the advice displayed in this article, some questions remain.

Are genuine faith and a good moral guidance going to be enough for a man (particularly one over the age of 35) to find a good, suitable wife and start a family? Probably not enough. Let me explain why.

Number one: thee is a genuine demographic crisis in most of Europe and North America. There is a gender imbalance and surplus of men in the age group between 18 and 40. If you think it is only ba din the communist China (where there was a state-enforced one-child policy before 2018), think again. I believe there is at least 14 men to every 10 women in most of Europe and North America in that age group. The reasons? Extremely low birth rates among local women and high rates of immigration - and most immigrants are single men aged between 18-40. More men competing for the decreasing number of women.

Roosh’s advice would have seemed easier to follow 10-15 years ago…anywhere, not only in the US.

(I did find my wife in the back in the mid-2000s while attending a church group. Sadly I lost her to a tragedy.)

Such good women were extremely hard to even back then (and remember that was long before smartphones came along, before social media become prevalent, Tinder and similar app were not yet thought of.)

Now, It would be virtually impossible to find any women who has a potential to become a good wife and mother, and has not been damaged beyond repair. And this leads to my second point.

The Church (not just one in particular, but all of them, including the Orthodox ones) have changed beyond recognition in the US and (all of) Europe. So did the women who frequent churches.

Other than strong faith in God, a man still needs enormous amount of red pill wisdom and at least a minimal knowledge of “game”. No, in this case “game” is not used to facilitate fornication, it is used to signal masculine qualities to woman. Yes, even God-fearing, church-going women respond to that. It would make her more loyal to her husband…and less likely to cheat.

For some us who want a wife and children, to find any reasonably decent women of child-bearing age (no older than 25-26) and who has good morals, there are only really two options. One is to focus on recent arrivals from abroad, mostly students. (This would only work if you live in a big, international city with several colleges/universities.) The other option is to travel broad to find a wife – preferably not to the Philippines/Thailand – Colombia -Eastern Europe triangle but to other places (I won’t specify the location – I go where It would work for me.) Sadly the current Covid-19 pandemic make both of these two remaining options more difficult – but they can still be done.

Before someone accusing me “oh, well…going abroad to find a wife is for weaklings”. No, you are wrong. Going abroad requires a lots of genuinely red pilled and masculine skills. It requires planning ahead, saving…which require healthy habits, self-discipline and perseverance. Dealing with visa application, learning another country’s language and culture requires time and effort.

To sum up: are there good women out there? Yes. Do you need to make enormous to secure one: yes. Is it worth the effort: absolutely positively yes.

Well, that’s my view anyway…
 
This isn’t going to be a popular reply. But I post it anyway.

While I don’t doubt Roosh’ sincerity behind the advice displayed in this article, some questions remain.

Are genuine faith and a good moral guidance going to be enough for a man (particularly one over the age of 35) to find a good, suitable wife and start a family? Probably not enough. Let me explain why.

Number one: thee is a genuine demographic crisis in most of Europe and North America. There is a gender imbalance and surplus of men in the age group between 18 and 40. If you think it is only ba din the communist China (where there was a state-enforced one-child policy before 2018), think again. I believe there is at least 14 men to every 10 women in most of Europe and North America in that age group. The reasons? Extremely low birth rates among local women and high rates of immigration - and most immigrants are single men aged between 18-40. More men competing for the decreasing number of women.

Roosh’s advice would have seemed easier to follow 10-15 years ago…anywhere, not only in the US.

(I did find my wife in the back in the mid-2000s while attending a church group. Sadly I lost her to a tragedy.)

Such good women were extremely hard to even back then (and remember that was long before smartphones came along, before social media become prevalent, Tinder and similar app were not yet thought of.)

Now, It would be virtually impossible to find any women who has a potential to become a good wife and mother, and has not been damaged beyond repair. And this leads to my second point.

The Church (not just one in particular, but all of them, including the Orthodox ones) have changed beyond recognition in the US and (all of) Europe. So did the women who frequent churches.

Other than strong faith in God, a man still needs enormous amount of red pill wisdom and at least a minimal knowledge of “game”. No, in this case “game” is not used to facilitate fornication, it is used to signal masculine qualities to woman. Yes, even God-fearing, church-going women respond to that. It would make her more loyal to her husband…and less likely to cheat.

For some us who want a wife and children, to find any reasonably decent women of child-bearing age (no older than 25-26) and who has good morals, there are only really two options. One is to focus on recent arrivals from abroad, mostly students. (This would only work if you live in a big, international city with several colleges/universities.) The other option is to travel broad to find a wife – preferably not to the Philippines/Thailand – Colombia -Eastern Europe triangle but to other places (I won’t specify the location – I go where It would work for me.) Sadly the current Covid-19 pandemic make both of these two remaining options more difficult – but they can still be done.

Before someone accusing me “oh, well…going abroad to find a wife is for weaklings”. No, you are wrong. Going abroad requires a lots of genuinely red pilled and masculine skills. It requires planning ahead, saving…which require healthy habits, self-discipline and perseverance. Dealing with visa application, learning another country’s language and culture requires time and effort.

To sum up: are there good women out there? Yes. Do you need to make enormous to secure one: yes. Is it worth the effort: absolutely positively yes.

Well, that’s my view anyway…
I liked your comment and I found my wife in the Philippines, which is still a good place to find a wife, if you are looking for a good one.
Can you tell me why you said "preferably not to the Philippines..."?
 
In the circles of those who have truly embraced God, there really is a shortage of young men. It may not be much, but it's enough to keep women on their toes and "husband-up" the best prospects that come before someone else does

I've heard this is the case in a city such as St. Louis, where apparently there are more young women than men attending church. In my neck of the woods, the TLM church I attend is mostly families, old women and young men. I would wager there are less than 10 single women who attend church daily, and this is a liberal estimate. The ratio of male to female is not the same in every church.

This isn’t going to be a popular reply. But I post it anyway.

While I don’t doubt Roosh’ sincerity behind the advice displayed in this article, some questions remain.

Are genuine faith and a good moral guidance going to be enough for a man (particularly one over the age of 35) to find a good, suitable wife and start a family? Probably not enough. Let me explain why.

Number one: thee is a genuine demographic crisis in most of Europe and North America. There is a gender imbalance and surplus of men in the age group between 18 and 40. If you think it is only ba din the communist China (where there was a state-enforced one-child policy before 2018), think again. I believe there is at least 14 men to every 10 women in most of Europe and North America in that age group. The reasons? Extremely low birth rates among local women and high rates of immigration - and most immigrants are single men aged between 18-40. More men competing for the decreasing number of women.

Roosh’s advice would have seemed easier to follow 10-15 years ago…anywhere, not only in the US.

(I did find my wife in the back in the mid-2000s while attending a church group. Sadly I lost her to a tragedy.)

Such good women were extremely hard to even back then (and remember that was long before smartphones came along, before social media become prevalent, Tinder and similar app were not yet thought of.)

Now, It would be virtually impossible to find any women who has a potential to become a good wife and mother, and has not been damaged beyond repair. And this leads to my second point.

The Church (not just one in particular, but all of them, including the Orthodox ones) have changed beyond recognition in the US and (all of) Europe. So did the women who frequent churches.

Other than strong faith in God, a man still needs enormous amount of red pill wisdom and at least a minimal knowledge of “game”. No, in this case “game” is not used to facilitate fornication, it is used to signal masculine qualities to woman. Yes, even God-fearing, church-going women respond to that. It would make her more loyal to her husband…and less likely to cheat.

For some us who want a wife and children, to find any reasonably decent women of child-bearing age (no older than 25-26) and who has good morals, there are only really two options. One is to focus on recent arrivals from abroad, mostly students. (This would only work if you live in a big, international city with several colleges/universities.) The other option is to travel broad to find a wife – preferably not to the Philippines/Thailand – Colombia -Eastern Europe triangle but to other places (I won’t specify the location – I go where It would work for me.) Sadly the current Covid-19 pandemic make both of these two remaining options more difficult – but they can still be done.

Before someone accusing me “oh, well…going abroad to find a wife is for weaklings”. No, you are wrong. Going abroad requires a lots of genuinely red pilled and masculine skills. It requires planning ahead, saving…which require healthy habits, self-discipline and perseverance. Dealing with visa application, learning another country’s language and culture requires time and effort.

To sum up: are there good women out there? Yes. Do you need to make enormous to secure one: yes. Is it worth the effort: absolutely positively yes.

Well, that’s my view anyway…


I've mentioned this in other threads, but I am not against the idea of going abroad to find a wife, depending on how one goes about it. I may eventually end up doing this if I am unable to find a wife in the U.S. As I mentioned above, there aren't really many single women in the church I attend. Perhaps this will change in due time. However, I am considering moving out of the liberal state I live in anyway to a more conservative one, as I realize the area i'm in is very limited in terms of meeting a prospective wife. I would really prefer to find a wife here, but if things really do seem dire, even after relocating to another state, i may just try abroad.
 
I've heard this is the case in a city such as St. Louis, where apparently there are more young women than men attending church. In my neck of the woods, the TLM church I attend is mostly families, old women and young men. I would wager there are less than 10 single women who attend church daily, and this is a liberal estimate. The ratio of male to female is not the same in every church.




I've mentioned this in other threads, but I am not against the idea of going abroad to find a wife, depending on how one goes about it. I may eventually end up doing this if I am unable to find a wife in the U.S. As I mentioned above, there aren't really many single women in the church I attend. Perhaps this will change in due time. However, I am considering moving out of the liberal state I live in anyway to a more conservative one, as I realize the area i'm in is very limited in terms of meeting a prospective wife. I would really prefer to find a wife here, but if things really do seem dire, even after relocating to another state, i may just try abroad.

Do you live in a blue collar town that attracts a disproportionate amount of men to work in the local industry? Churches in big cities tend to have a good female-to-male ratio. Try places like Dallas, Oklahoma City...even liberal cities do well too, in terms of the numbers.

If you live in small town, Wyoming, your difficulty makes sense. Or any small town, really. Go abroad if you want to, but I think you can manage fine in the good old U. S. of A. Just look in the right places
 

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
Without getting too much further into specifics, the points above about demographics, beyond culture, are key in showing the game for what it is in the west: a lottery. This is even for men who have their "shit" together, since of course if you have a lot going for you, you will naturally have at least some higher standard to fill (reasonably) which makes it a sliding scale and somewhat more difficult. The culture and the idea of "dating" have led to women making decisions on their own, which en masse they are really bad at. The decline of the family and the church as influential thus lead to the communities or families not pairing people up who would be a good fit --- and this used to be the backbone of proper matchmaking. The larger truth is that likely we have to go through a period where it just isn't going to work out for a lot of men; the problem is that the only fix is the passage of time, ultimately. In a certain sense, this is why sites like this were even created or why they have thrived - it was a witness against a bad culture and men seeking some refuge from how bad the culture got, looking for ways to navigate it. It's no different than if your generation was the one sent to war. We have been in a soft, long war for quite some time now. And what comes after the war is usually the "correcting" period. Until then, we can bloviate all we want but in the truest sense, "demographics is destiny" rules the day. Yes, there are always exceptions but demographics and culture make probabilities exceedingly low in finding quality mates.
 

third_eldest

Sparrow
But don't you think you should go out and look for a wife? She isn't going to show up on your door step. "He who finds a wife finds a good thing..." means finding by searching, not happenstance. 1 Corinthians 7 will teach you what God wants you to do about finding a wife. Marriage is the grace of life (1 Peter 3:7). The answer isn't hidden, you only need to discern God's will for you in the area of marriage, then pray, watch, and go find this woman. Are you in Matthew 19:12? If not, you know what you need to do.

You are almost 21, that's great. Time may be on your side but at your age, I think marriage should be a top priority. Knowing God's will in this is simple, where you are going to find this wife is much more complicated.

You also do not need to be a finished product to get married. If anything, God uses marriage to help refine most of us into a "finished product". Ultimately, death makes the Christian a finished product. Until then, why not fearlessly and relentlessly look for what you need?

You are correct. I am looking for a potential partner at this moment in time, this is a relatively recent development. Without deliberate effort on my part, women just aren't a part of my life (which is in some ways a blessing, don't have to deal with day-to-day women tomfoolery) because I'm at an engineering school and a very small church startup, where I am one of three singles in their 20s, none of which are women. I asked the girlfriends of my closest friends to help me network and so far that's been relatively successful. Trying to take things slow, so I can objectively determine if any of them will be a good fit. If they aren't good sisters in Christ first they won't be good partners in the long run.

I also agree with you that it's a priority in my life, despite not being fully set up in terms of career. Reason I say this is that stability is not guaranteed in any way after election day (lol) so the likelihood of getting into a desirable relationship once things get worse will be reduced.

I also agree with the notion that I don't need to be a finished product. However, I do think there are some issues that one needs to tackle before entering a relationship (e.g. tackling a recurrent lust problem). It's just not fair to the woman.

I just wanted to add that while God will do as he pleases, single men still have their part in God accomplishing his will. He says to avoid fornication get married. That is on us to get done, and yes I am fully aware how difficult that seems to be these days. I was without a relationship for 30 years and no, I wasn't in prison. God's will is quite evident-we are to marry unless we are a eunuch or have the spiritual gift of singleness, which probably excludes about everyone in RVF, including myself.

I am very sensitive to the idea of God's will being clear about something, but personal responsibility is downplayed. I used to know a church elder who was in charge of the prayer ministry at a large church. The thing was, while he believed in prayer, he didn't believe in ever actually doing something about accomplishing God's will. I was in such shock and dismay and felt sorrow for the people in the group, that I met with another church elder to ask why in the world this was so. He told me he agreed with me.

To this person, God was going to accomplish his will and ALL we had to do was pray, which makes no sense. Faith without works is DEAD. I can believe that God wants me to marry because I can't stand living without sex and female companionship, but if I don't go and look for this wife then I don't really believe I should get married.

I do wish more churches would try to do something to help struggling singles. I experienced more avoidance than help in finding someone. No one ever seems to know of good single women in churches, at least when I was single, and I would ask around.

Anyway, don't get too comfortable waiting on God, unless you are going to hustle while you wait. Pray-Watch-Act.

I agree with your notion that men need to take the initiative in relationships. I wouldn't want it another way, don't want a miss piggy. I just tend to be very domineering and I don't want to confuse my personal will with God's will in an attempt to fool myself. I've convinced myself in the past that a woman is Godly--without knowing her well enough--and saying that it must be within God's will, becoming overly committed to her before there was even anything official. I've determined this is a bad strategy, and honestly quite weak.

I appreciate your input. Thanks for the responses!
 
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