Do you own physical Gold or Silver or Both?

Do you own physical Gold or Silver or Both?

  • I own physical Gold

    Votes: 33 9.6%
  • I own physical Silver

    Votes: 54 15.7%
  • I own Both

    Votes: 103 29.9%
  • I own neither

    Votes: 130 37.7%
  • I only own paper metals

    Votes: 25 7.2%

  • Total voters
    345

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
D said:
I haven't gone through the entire thread, but wanted to mention out that jewellery is an easy way to get into gold and silver as well as honing the eye for precious metals in the wild. I just received a 925 stamped bracelet that had a broken clasp for free. It's basic chick, but silver is silver. It's worth checking out thrift and second hand store jewellery counters. If it's a smaller store you can try and make friends with the staff/owner and ask to see broken or unsellable items. (If you bring decent items in regularly, it helps.) I have a pocket magnifier (cheap off eBay) to check for stamping.

My sister is a thrift store hound. She occasionally finds 10K and 14K gold jewelry items mixed in with bulk bags of junk and costume jewelry -- at junk jewelry prices. So, it can be done. The question is whether it is worth your time. If you are already visiting thrift stores to find resale items, then it is most certainly worth the time.
 

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Businesses are now preparing for the business costs of negative interest rates, including some gold vault companies:

Dear BullionVault user,

We must make a change to our Terms & Conditions. It prepares for the possibility
of negative interest rates being applied to money in the Client Money Bank
Accounts.


As you know, interest rates around the world remain at historic lows. Some
central banks, most notably the European Central Bank, have even gone to
negative interest-rate policies.


This means that large banks must now pay to keep cash on deposit with those
monetary authorities. As a result, a number of commercial banks in the Eurozone
are applying negative rates to larger deposit accounts held in Euros.


To date, this has not affected any of BullionVault's segregated Client Money
Bank Accounts. It may also be that the tide is turning. Sweden's Riksbank, the
first central bank to impose negative rates, is reportedly planning to raise its
key policy rate back to zero later this year.

Even so, negative interest rates are now very much part of the policymakers'
toolkit, and you will understand that, as a commercial business, BullionVault
cannot be expected to bear the cost of topping up Client Money Bank Accounts if
negative rates were applied to them.


To prepare for this possibility, BullionVault needs the ability to charge a
holding fee on cash kept in a Client Money Bank Account where our bank charges a
negative rate of interest.


You can read the amended Terms & Conditions here:

https://www.bullionvault.com/help/terms_and_conditions.html

There is no other change. These amended Terms will apply in 30 days' time.

Again, none of BullionVault's Client Money Bank Accounts currently suffers a
negative interest rate, so no holding fee is being applied or planned at this
time.

We sincerely hope it will not become necessary. If it does, we shall give you 5
working days' notice so that you can withdraw funds, back to your own bank
account, or use it to buy physical bullion.

Kind regards,

Robert Glynne
CEO, BullionVault
 

oilbreh

Woodpecker
We might be seeing the last pullback gold to low 1400's and silver to low 16's before we head back up. Now a good time to buy especially in non US countries. There will be a flight to USD as a save haven if world economy doesn't pick up (look up dollar milkshake theory) so it might drop more in USD but not in terms of other currencies.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I've been watching a few videos on silver.

Essentially if the paper money falls through, you will want a little bit of this. I feel a little late on this, but I still might be ahead of the curve as the situation on the ground develops.

Government Issued vs. Bullion. Pawn Shops, local dealers, etc.

This guy bought 2 cars with Silver.


 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I checked with an online dealer my friend uses kitco.com, fully sold out. My friend who orders has never seen that.

I just arranged with a local dealer to order physical silver in 10oz bars.

They are sold out of inventory, everything is on order. 15- 60 days until delivery.

If you are interested in still picking some up before things move fast, I would suggest doing this soon.
 

Amateur

Pigeon
Can anyone give me some insight into why the price of gold fell during news of the coronavirus outbreak?

I was always told that the value of gold was the safe during a crisis.
 

kel

Pelican
Everything falls when it's unclear if you'll be able to cash out on it later and when it looks like you might need liquid in the short-term.

My guess.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
kel said:
Everything falls when it's unclear if you'll be able to cash out on it later and when it looks like you might need liquid in the short-term.

My guess.

I believe that it would be prudent that guys holding any kind of physical metals, whether gold, silver or some other kinds of metals would have some shit hits the fan liquidation avenues in mind, and surely, if real shit hits the fan happens, there could be additional liquidation avenues that spring up based on need, but hardly seems like any kind of guarantees of that. So, if any guys holding these metals are relying on a network of other guys, or even that masses of people who do not hold pms are all of a sudden going to knock on their doors because they want to trade PMs for food, bullets or some more liquid cash, then those kinds of ideas seem a bit pie in the sky to me.

Of course, with my bitcoin stash, I have similar kinds of ever changing liquidity problems, too, so I try to have a few different liquidity avenues in mind, but surely, similar kind of problems exist when shit hits the fan, some of those liquidity avenues might dry up or temporarily close.. so then similar issues might come about regarding having a network of possible direct transactions, which may or may not be feasible in the event that people might be seeking guns, butter and toilet paper...or more liquid currencies, such as cash...

Of course, even if cash might NOT be something that guys will want to hold onto long term because it might be losing its value to a great degree, it still will remain a great thing to have during short term crisis, and nice to be able to trade PMs or whatever assets of value for a stack of such cash/currency from time to time too, when crises are ongoing or imminent.
 

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Amateur said:
Can anyone give me some insight into why the price of gold fell during news of the coronavirus outbreak?

I was always told that the value of gold was the safe during a crisis.

It depends on the type of crisis. I explained de-leveraging a few weeks back on another thread. Over-leveraged investors sell everything.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-60358-post-2063078.html?highlight=gold#pid2063078

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74769-post-2067339.html?highlight=de-leverage#pid2067339
_______________

BTW: I watched an interview yesterday with a major PM supplier. With massive spreads, silver now costs more than $20 per ounce. American Eagles are at $22. That means that silver must hit $22 before you break even. Screw that. If you want physical metal, you may as well just wait to buy silver when it hits $20 again and the spreads narrow to normal (providing fear abates by then).

Right now, it makes far more sense to buy a silver ETF when you think the market bottoms. You could always take your profit and then buy physical.
 

kel

Pelican
Yeah, the value of cash will be very unclear as well in a real crisis (this is not a real crisis yet), though I think the will to believe will keep the US dollar and a few other popular currencies as accepted means of exchange.

Still, bullets and canned food will always have value.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
kel said:
Yeah, the value of cash will be very unclear as well in a real crisis (this is not a real crisis yet), though I think the will to believe will keep the US dollar and a few other popular currencies as accepted means of exchange.

Still, bullets and canned food will always have value.

Takes a bit of work to maintain your canned food supply.,..

I did not ever really like eating canned food, but of course, if it is an emergency, then it is good to have a decent amount of it.. problem is maintaining it to be somewhat current...

Maybe, if you do not like to eat your canned food, except for emergencies, you could rotate the supply (by buying new) every few years. I would not want to be eating 10 year expired canned food, even though it may well still be good, but I would hate to get killed from situations like that, that I could have reduced the risk, if not prevented it.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Tail Gunner said:
Right now, it makes far more sense to buy a silver ETF when you think the market bottoms. You could always take your profit and then buy physical.

Disagree. Nothing replaces physical silver in your hand.

You can have an ETF, fair enough, but you can't trade that when shit goes to hell.

I will consider adding an ETF of silver, But I think physical silver has a purpose which is separate from getting a great spread.

Check what this guy says about 6:00 in. Real Market is different than paper market. In the Real world, Silver Stock is unavailable. If this gets worse the inventories will be even more reduced or will be effectively unavailable. Demand for Silver out of US Mint has changed a great deal between Feb to March.

 

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
NoMoreTO said:
Tail Gunner said:
Right now, it makes far more sense to buy a silver ETF when you think the market bottoms. You could always take your profit and then buy physical.

Disagree. Nothing replaces physical silver in your hand.

You can have an ETF, fair enough, but you can't trade that when shit goes to hell.

I will consider adding an ETF of silver, But I think physical silver has a purpose which is separate from getting a great spread.

Check what this guy says about 6:00 in. Real Market is different than paper market. In the Real world, Silver Stock is unavailable. If this gets worse the inventories will be even more reduced or will be effectively unavailable. Demand for Silver out of US Mint has changed a great deal between Feb to March.

I agree with everything that you said. I simply disagree with the timing. We will likely follow the 2008-2009 playbook. The price of silver and gold will go down in the first deflationary liquidation phase, as it is now doing. Then the price of silver and gold will up in an inflationary phase. In 2008, the deflationary liquidation phase for silver and gold took 7-8 months. This appears as if it will be much quicker. The inflationary phase, where everyone expected inflation (but it did not occur), took about 2-1/2 years.

How does this work in practice? For example, you buy 1,000 ounces of silver in an ETF at $10 = $10,000, while silver Eagles presently sell for $22 (1,000 ounces x $22 = $22,000). So, you save $12,000. Then when silver eventually rises to $20, you liquidate your 1,000 ETF ounces = $20,000. With that $20,000, you can now buy twice as many physical ounces as you could buy right now. [Note: this does not take into effect tax ramifications of the ETF sale, which can be substantial if you are a high earner -- but you still come out way ahead.]

Yes, physical bullion is necessary as insurance against TEOTWAWKI or rampant inflation, but I disagree that either of those things will happen before silver bottoms and I can buy physical. People have waited for those things to happen for decades. If TEOTWAWKI occurs, I am worried about how to get to my bolthole, not about how much silver I own.
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Tail Gunner said:
NoMoreTO said:
Tail Gunner said:
Right now, it makes far more sense to buy a silver ETF when you think the market bottoms. You could always take your profit and then buy physical.

Disagree. Nothing replaces physical silver in your hand.

You can have an ETF, fair enough, but you can't trade that when shit goes to hell.

I will consider adding an ETF of silver, But I think physical silver has a purpose which is separate from getting a great spread.

Check what this guy says about 6:00 in. Real Market is different than paper market. In the Real world, Silver Stock is unavailable. If this gets worse the inventories will be even more reduced or will be effectively unavailable. Demand for Silver out of US Mint has changed a great deal between Feb to March.

I agree with everything that you said. I simply disagree with the timing. We will likely follow the 2008-2009 playbook. The price of silver and gold will go down in the first deflationary liquidation phase, as it is now doing. Then the price of silver and gold will up in an inflationary phase. In 2008, the deflationary liquidation phase for silver and gold took 7-8 months. This appears as if it will be much quicker. The inflationary phase, where everyone expected inflation (but it did not occur), took about 2-1/2 years.

How does this work in practice? For example, you buy 1,000 ounces of silver in an ETF at $10 = $10,000, while silver Eagles presently sell for $22 (1,000 ounces x $22 = $22,000). So, you save $12,000. Then when silver eventually rises to $20, you liquidate your 1,000 ETF ounces = $20,000. With that $20,000, you can now buy twice as many physical ounces as you could buy right now. [Note: this does not take into effect tax ramifications of the ETF sale, which can be substantial if you are a high earner -- but you still come out way ahead.]

Yes, physical bullion is necessary as insurance against TEOTWAWKI or rampant inflation, but I disagree that either of those things will happen before silver bottoms and I can buy physical. People have waited for those things to happen for decades. If TEOTWAWKI occurs, I am worried about how to get to my bolthole, not about how much silver I own.

OK this is very helpful.

I do think silver will help you when TEOTWAWKI occurs. It will be one of many things that might help you or me. I might have to bury it or hide it somewhere, but it will be real money. We know that. I think if TEOTWAWKI happens, your silver trade will never happen, and that is why I sprung for it.

When it comes to making a private sale in TEOTWAWKI, Silver will mean a lot when cash is in a superinflation cycle. I did make a silver purchase at about the price you said, partially out of realizing the physical market was running dry everywhere.

I am now interested in taking a 2nd position, perhaps I can look into buying it as an ETF to have some of the gains you are discussing. I have been looking into silver, and would rather be in silver than Cash. Is there an ETF you like?

Still I view the 2 markets as totally different. My instinct is to not trust all of these financial products. If there is a run on silver, like if there is a run on physical cash, it will not be there.
This would mean that, for every ounce of physical silver, there are 250 ounces of « paper » silver circulating in several financial products. In other words, only one contract or certificate issued out of 250 would be convertible in physical silver. The disconnect between physical and « paper », or virtual, markets is considerable.
The financialisation of the silver market is resulting in a leverage of 250 to 1
Paper Silver 250 to 1 Real Silver Article

Silver is hot, people are looking for it and picking it up. This was my experience when looking for it.
Data from the U.S. Mint shows that it has sold 2.32 million one-ounce silver coins so far this month, up significantly from February sales of 650,000 coins.
Increase in Physical Silver Purchases
 

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
NoMoreTO said:
I am now interested in taking a 2nd position, perhaps I can look into buying it as an ETF to have some of the gains you are discussing. I have been looking into silver, and would rather be in silver than Cash. Is there an ETF you like?

All things being equal, the most liquid ETF is usually the best, which is SLV.

If you worry about an ETF not owning all its physical bullion during a major crisis, then PSLV may better suit you: "Without exception, all of the bullion owned by the Trusts is held in the Trusts' allocated accounts in physical form."

https://sprott.com/investment-strategies/physical-bullion-trusts/why-consider-sprott-trusts/
 

NoMoreTO

Ostrich
Tail Gunner said:
NoMoreTO said:
I am now interested in taking a 2nd position, perhaps I can look into buying it as an ETF to have some of the gains you are discussing. I have been looking into silver, and would rather be in silver than Cash. Is there an ETF you like?

All things being equal, the most liquid ETF is usually the best, which is SLV.

If you worry about an ETF not owning all its physical bullion during a major crisis, then PSLV may better suit you: "Without exception, all of the bullion owned by the Trusts is held in the Trusts' allocated accounts in physical form."

https://sprott.com/investment-strategies/physical-bullion-trusts/why-consider-sprott-trusts/


OK thanks, I jumped into a position in PSLV as I'm a little worried about how much money they are going to print. I was watching Schiff last night which got me a little worried.

Trying to take an attitude that this is the real money, and the paper is just paper. Either way its a good hedge.

Do you think its too early for this? More losers will have to sell their silver to recoup losses.
 

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
NoMoreTO said:
Tail Gunner said:
NoMoreTO said:
I am now interested in taking a 2nd position, perhaps I can look into buying it as an ETF to have some of the gains you are discussing. I have been looking into silver, and would rather be in silver than Cash. Is there an ETF you like?

All things being equal, the most liquid ETF is usually the best, which is SLV.

If you worry about an ETF not owning all its physical bullion during a major crisis, then PSLV may better suit you: "Without exception, all of the bullion owned by the Trusts is held in the Trusts' allocated accounts in physical form."

https://sprott.com/investment-strategies/physical-bullion-trusts/why-consider-sprott-trusts/


OK thanks, I jumped into a position in PSLV as I'm a little worried about how much money they are going to print. I was watching Schiff last night which got me a little worried.

Trying to take an attitude that this is the real money, and the paper is just paper. Either way its a good hedge.

Do you think its too early for this? More losers will have to sell their silver to recoup losses.

This guy was so very accurate on the price and direction of gold since 2016 that it really makes you wonder (and may give you heartburn). In the article, he lays out his past track record with many charts and web links.

In the end, fundamental analysis always trumps technical analysis, but this is certainly something to ponder. He obviously expects massive deflation. It is well worth reading the entire article to be fully informed. This chart is far more legible in the article. Yes, this monthly chart shows gold possibly going to $830 by 2024. From a technical perspective, it makes sense: with a lower high (at C), you would expect a lower low (at D).

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https://www.ino.com/blog/2020/03/gold-update-thats-it/?id=186D5C&mktcode=blogclick
 

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NoMoreTO

Ostrich
I took a good look at the article. I'm not a technical analysis master, but definitely gives some pause. Thanks for the article.

I'm mostly looking at the fact that the paper dollar will be printed to the max, so by default silver and gold are a good store of value. But I know it's more complicated than that. I just think this whole banking system is Bunk, I know eventually this will have to pop, but maybe not for another 20 years.

The powers that be have a lot of incentive to keep the system together.
 

Louis IX

Pelican
I felt that something was wrong when gold hit 50EUR/g during the start of the coronavirus in Italy. It was too much of a move and i started to think about buying gold.
I was able to order some PM at around 47.3 EUR/g or so (still a lot of numismatics , few investor coins) on the very last day my dealer allowed it (somewhere in West Europe). I missed the delivery but the order is mine and will be delivered probably in 2021/2022. They will keep the pending orders and 1 day later the business was interrupted. A lot of other shops are doing this.

I hope that these are only issues from transport/delivery and from sourcing. Otherwise this means that PM are being bought by either central banks/rich millionaires etc....

The fact that premiums are rising even for mainstream products means that the physical dealers do not believe in the official value of gold.

I am far from being an analyst , but I will do everything to buy some more if i get some money in at some point and find decent premiums or offers from individuals I trust at close to spot.

Of course , having cash and food/medical supplies ( and ammo for USA, thanks god don't have to deal with this) will be far more valuable. But when things will go back to normal , we will probably see PM going up.


Just my 1.5 cent
 
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