Do you own physical Gold or Silver or Both?

Do you own physical Gold or Silver or Both?

  • I own physical Gold

    Votes: 31 9.6%
  • I own physical Silver

    Votes: 52 16.1%
  • I own Both

    Votes: 91 28.3%
  • I own neither

    Votes: 125 38.8%
  • I only own paper metals

    Votes: 23 7.1%

  • Total voters
    322

NoMoreTO

Pelican
I am finding that when the market goes up, my paper silver is getting about 75% of that overall gain, and when the market goes down taking about 25% of that hit. Its a good ratio so far. Still I'm worried in case of full market tank my silver will still be in the red.

Waiting on my physical on order at the moment.
 
The inevitable moment where paper gold and paper silver will dissociate from the real gold price is coming.
Just look at premiums right now for the main coins...
Of course there is no supply for modern stuff but all the numismatics bullions are out of stock or with at least 10% premium now ( Vreneli and napoleon) - or 5% for 50pesos , belgian leopold II , Dutch 10 gulden etc)

Even the Krugerrand takes 10%.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Eventually the demand for physical silver should translate over to the demand for paper silver. People will buy the paper silver because they can not get their hands on the physical, with the hopes of eventual delivery (this is me).

I suppose the enlarged premium is defined as the lag in delivery due to demand. This might just get larger and larger, as time moves on. It could become +50% for physical delivery. If the normies start coming for silver or gold things will go haywire.
 

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
The absence of the usual transportation methods has added to supply issues in precious metals, not just for individuals but also for the PM markets:

Growing New York Gold Stockpile Eases Fear of Shortages
Friday, 03 April 2020 12:12 PM

The amount of gold stored in vaults in New York registered by CME Group's Comex exchange has risen by nearly 2 million ounces, CME data showed, proving ample to settle monthly contract obligations and easing concerns of shortages that sent prices skyrocketing.

Traders worried it would be impossible to fly gold from London to deliver against Comex contracts after coronavirus lockdown measures grounded planes and shut several precious metals refineries last month.

On March 23, just before gold traded in New York jumped as much as $70, or 4% above London spot prices, contracts representing almost 20 million ounces for delivery in April were open on Comex, with less than 9 million ounces in store.

But the price premium triggered a rush to transfer gold to New York.

Total stocks in Comex-registered vaults increased by 1.75 million ounces, or 54 tonnes, from March 26 to a four-year high of 10.5 million ounces, while the proportion put on warrant, or made available for delivery, doubled to around 40%.

Meanwhile, most investors rolled their positions to contracts with future delivery dates, reducing the amount of gold needed for settlement.

24,489 contracts equivalent to 2.4 million ounces for April delivery have been redeemed for metal, the highest monthly total since at least 2011, CME data show.

Investors typically use Comex to gain exposure to gold prices and rarely ask to take metal, which costs money to store.

For that reason, far less gold is stored in New York than trades there. If gold is needed, it can be quickly flown on passenger planes from London via Swiss refiners that melt and reshape it to meet Comex specifications.

The next active monthly future on Comex is for June delivery, with 359,803 contracts active representing 36 million ounces.

Its price is around $25 above London spot gold, suggesting that worries remain.

"There's still some logistical concerns in the market about not having the right bars in the right place," said Saxo Bank analyst Ole Hansen.

But he said the price gap would shrink as refineries reopened and the CME launched a new gold contract that can be settled using London standard 400-ounce bars as well the 100 ounce bars it currently takes.

The London Bullion Market Association, which oversees London trading, said last week it was working with refiners, shippers and banks to move metal, including by cargo and charter planes.
https://www.newsmax.com/finance/mar...=DM102643_04052020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010124xpnbu4
 

presidentcarter

Ostrich
Gold Member
Polniy_Sostav said:
The inevitable moment where paper gold and paper silver will dissociate from the real gold price is coming.
Just look at premiums right now for the main coins...
Of course there is no supply for modern stuff but all the numismatics bullions are out of stock or with at least 10% premium now ( Vreneli and napoleon) - or 5% for 50pesos , belgian leopold II , Dutch 10 gulden etc)

Even the Krugerrand takes 10%.
The premium for coins seems outrageous now.

For example, silver American Eagles are going for $30+ on a popular p2p selling platform. They're mid $20s on apmex, etc. online but with silver spot at $14.50 even $23 is a large premium. Also looks like silver spot took a massive hit along with the economy given its industrial metal role.

I guess the forward-facing demand is just that high. Probably better to go for gold now.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
What's a "normal" premium for buying physical gold? How do you track this, and do you account for it in your buying?
 

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
redbeard said:
What's a "normal" premium for buying physical gold? How do you track this, and do you account for it in your buying?
On average, you should expect to pay between 2 and 5 percent over spot. Any more than that, and you're going to have a harder time recouping your costs.
https://www.kitco.com/ind/Shaefer/2014-01-29-5-Mistakes-People-Make-When-Buying-Gold.html

When demand goes up, dealers increase premiums because they can. You need to sell for more than the spot price plus the premium to break even.
 

joost

Kingfisher
Email I received this morning:

Dear Valued Customer:

We are contacting you about a data breach that has occurred at Texas Precious Metals that has affected less than 7% of client accounts.

What happened?

We recently learned that the email account of a former TPM employee has been hacked. At this time we are actively investigating the breach using our internal experts, our email hosting service provider and their team of experts, and external experts as needed. If you are receiving this email, you are in a subset of TPM customers whose data we believe has been compromised by the breach. Affected customers include those that placed orders with TPM between February 18, 2019 and September 18, 2019.

It appears that the purpose of the hack was primarily to obtain email addresses for purposes of sending out phishing emails to either obtain further customer information directly from customers or to get customers to unknowingly download malware by clicking a hyperlink contained in the email.

What information was involved?

We believe that the following information about you may have been compromised:
Customer name
Details of customer orders placed between February 18, 2019 and September 18, 2019
Products ordered
Price and amount paid
Shipping address


The compromised information did not include any of the following:
Social security numbers
Bank information
Credit card information
Account log in information
What are we doing?

We have already worked with our email hosting service provider to remove the compromised email account and ensure that all TPM email accounts are fully protected and secure. We are working tirelessly to identify exactly what information was gathered and which customers were affected. We are also working with law enforcement authorities to identify and prosecute the perpetrators of this breach and theft of TPM information.


What can you do?

It appears that the purpose of the hack was primarily to obtain email addresses for purposes of sending out phishing emails. Some customers are receiving emails purporting to be from TPM or containing prior email threads between customers and TPM personnel. The emails come from addresses other than @texmetals.com and include a hyperlink asking the recipient to click the link.

Do not open emails from TPM unless the sender has an official @texmetals.com email address. The emails received from our customers so far have been from completely unrelated email accounts that do not attempt to use a similar domain or otherwise appear to look like they are from Texas Precious Metals.

Do not click on any links or attachments contained in emails purporting to be from TPM. We will not send you an email with a link to open. We do send emails with attachments such as order receipts or shipping notifications, but those are always immediately after an order is place. Once you have placed an order and received confirmation documents, you will not receive further email from TPM about that order. Always make sure that an email you receive is from an official @texmetals.com email address.

Call us if you have questions. If you receive an email that concerns you or otherwise have questions or concerns, please call us at 361.594.3624.

We value our customers and your protection and security are our highest priority. Thank you for your patience and understanding and we work through this issue.
Hope it's not the IRS looking for gold buyers.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
I went to pick up my 10oz silver bars today. Delvery was in, less than 30 days later.

- I made the purchase March 16th @ $231 CAD / 10 oz bar. The same product today is selling at $290 / 10 oz bar. Up 25% since the purchase.
- I picked up a few 1 oz silver coins while I was there. They were selling everything at the $31 CAD / oz.
- As discussed here, the spreads being charged by dealers are up, he admitted this and seemed to view it as part of the business. The banks seem to do the same thing, which I find odd. - Delivery now is 60 days plus.

The whole process felt great. I actually have treasure and its pretty cool and shiny too.
 
joost said:
Email I received this morning:

Dear Valued Customer:

We are contacting you about a data breach that has occurred at Texas Precious Metals that has affected less than 7% of client accounts.

What happened?

We recently learned that the email account of a former TPM employee has been hacked. At this time we are actively investigating the breach using our internal experts, our email hosting service provider and their team of experts, and external experts as needed. If you are receiving this email, you are in a subset of TPM customers whose data we believe has been compromised by the breach. Affected customers include those that placed orders with TPM between February 18, 2019 and September 18, 2019.

It appears that the purpose of the hack was primarily to obtain email addresses for purposes of sending out phishing emails to either obtain further customer information directly from customers or to get customers to unknowingly download malware by clicking a hyperlink contained in the email.

What information was involved?

We believe that the following information about you may have been compromised:
Customer name
Details of customer orders placed between February 18, 2019 and September 18, 2019
Products ordered
Price and amount paid
Shipping address


The compromised information did not include any of the following:
Social security numbers
Bank information
Credit card information
Account log in information
What are we doing?

We have already worked with our email hosting service provider to remove the compromised email account and ensure that all TPM email accounts are fully protected and secure. We are working tirelessly to identify exactly what information was gathered and which customers were affected. We are also working with law enforcement authorities to identify and prosecute the perpetrators of this breach and theft of TPM information.


What can you do?

It appears that the purpose of the hack was primarily to obtain email addresses for purposes of sending out phishing emails. Some customers are receiving emails purporting to be from TPM or containing prior email threads between customers and TPM personnel. The emails come from addresses other than @texmetals.com and include a hyperlink asking the recipient to click the link.

Do not open emails from TPM unless the sender has an official @texmetals.com email address. The emails received from our customers so far have been from completely unrelated email accounts that do not attempt to use a similar domain or otherwise appear to look like they are from Texas Precious Metals.

Do not click on any links or attachments contained in emails purporting to be from TPM. We will not send you an email with a link to open. We do send emails with attachments such as order receipts or shipping notifications, but those are always immediately after an order is place. Once you have placed an order and received confirmation documents, you will not receive further email from TPM about that order. Always make sure that an email you receive is from an official @texmetals.com email address.

Call us if you have questions. If you receive an email that concerns you or otherwise have questions or concerns, please call us at 361.594.3624.

We value our customers and your protection and security are our highest priority. Thank you for your patience and understanding and we work through this issue.
Hope it's not the IRS looking for gold buyers.
Could be , but it looks like more like a guy having connection with some criminal networks to go and find the address of people in order to rob houses.
 
NoMoreTO said:
I went to pick up my 10oz silver bars today. Delvery was in, less than 30 days later.

- I made the purchase March 16th @ $231 CAD / 10 oz bar. The same product today is selling at $290 / 10 oz bar. Up 25% since the purchase.
- I picked up a few 1 oz silver coins while I was there. They were selling everything at the $31 CAD / oz.
- As discussed here, the spreads being charged by dealers are up, he admitted this and seemed to view it as part of the business. The banks seem to do the same thing, which I find odd. - Delivery now is 60 days plus.

The whole process felt great. I actually have treasure and its pretty cool and shiny too.
Wholesalers are simply "forcing" the little dealers and coin shops to be in this situation. I wouldn't blame the dealers , and I think they only do this in order to survive. Of course Apmex and their equivalent in other big countries won't die but there are a lot of antic shops/numismatic shops who will be forced down to close.

As discussed earlier , to go around these premiums i have been piling on gold semi-numismatics or numismatics , premiums are not so much affected by the rate , and there is no "inventory" issue as there is less activity on this part of the coin market.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Polniy_Sostav said:
NoMoreTO said:
- As discussed here, the spreads being charged by dealers are up, he admitted this and seemed to view it as part of the business. The banks seem to do the same thing, which I find odd. - Delivery now is 60 days plus.
Wholesalers are simply "forcing" the little dealers and coin shops to be in this situation. I wouldn't blame the dealers , and I think they only do this in order to survive. Of course Apmex and their equivalent in other big countries won't die but there are a lot of antic shops/numismatic shops who will be forced down to close.

As discussed earlier , to go around these premiums i have been piling on gold semi-numismatics or numismatics , premiums are not so much affected by the rate , and there is no "inventory" issue as there is less activity on this part of the coin market.
So when it comes to the physical supply, it seems that those who have silver/gold do not want to part with it anymore. The supply chain is slowed, miners might go out of business in the short term.

All of these factors to me lead to the hypothesis that the price of physical is on the ups.

When you say Numismatic, are you meaning high end coins? My understanding from the dealer & coin shop yesterday is that they are good in good times, but in poor times they go for the same as spot. Essentially the dealer is taking such a large premium on the transaction that more and more of these get sucked into the "spot price".
 
Polniy_Sostav said:
joost said:
Email I received this morning:

Dear Valued Customer:

We are contacting you about a data breach that has occurred at Texas Precious Metals that has affected less than 7% of client accounts.

What happened?

We recently learned that the email account of a former TPM employee has been hacked. At this time we are actively investigating the breach using our internal experts, our email hosting service provider and their team of experts, and external experts as needed. If you are receiving this email, you are in a subset of TPM customers whose data we believe has been compromised by the breach. Affected customers include those that placed orders with TPM between February 18, 2019 and September 18, 2019.

It appears that the purpose of the hack was primarily to obtain email addresses for purposes of sending out phishing emails to either obtain further customer information directly from customers or to get customers to unknowingly download malware by clicking a hyperlink contained in the email.

What information was involved?

We believe that the following information about you may have been compromised:
Customer name
Details of customer orders placed between February 18, 2019 and September 18, 2019
Products ordered
Price and amount paid
Shipping address


The compromised information did not include any of the following:
Social security numbers
Bank information
Credit card information
Account log in information
What are we doing?

We have already worked with our email hosting service provider to remove the compromised email account and ensure that all TPM email accounts are fully protected and secure. We are working tirelessly to identify exactly what information was gathered and which customers were affected. We are also working with law enforcement authorities to identify and prosecute the perpetrators of this breach and theft of TPM information.


What can you do?

It appears that the purpose of the hack was primarily to obtain email addresses for purposes of sending out phishing emails. Some customers are receiving emails purporting to be from TPM or containing prior email threads between customers and TPM personnel. The emails come from addresses other than @texmetals.com and include a hyperlink asking the recipient to click the link.

Do not open emails from TPM unless the sender has an official @texmetals.com email address. The emails received from our customers so far have been from completely unrelated email accounts that do not attempt to use a similar domain or otherwise appear to look like they are from Texas Precious Metals.

Do not click on any links or attachments contained in emails purporting to be from TPM. We will not send you an email with a link to open. We do send emails with attachments such as order receipts or shipping notifications, but those are always immediately after an order is place. Once you have placed an order and received confirmation documents, you will not receive further email from TPM about that order. Always make sure that an email you receive is from an official @texmetals.com email address.

Call us if you have questions. If you receive an email that concerns you or otherwise have questions or concerns, please call us at 361.594.3624.

We value our customers and your protection and security are our highest priority. Thank you for your patience and understanding and we work through this issue.
Hope it's not the IRS looking for gold buyers.
Could be , but it looks like more like a guy having connection with some criminal networks to go and find the address of people in order to rob houses.
Regardless, I advise that everyone has an alarm system and cameras installed in their home. If you have any significant amount of precious metals, you should also have a high-quality safe.
 

Tail Gunner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
John Michael Kane said:
Regardless, I advise that everyone has an alarm system and cameras installed in their home. If you have any significant amount of precious metals, you should also have a high-quality well-hidden safe.
Fixed that for you.
 
Even better. Yes, at least a false wall or floor is better than having one in plain sight. Combined with a security system, cameras, lights and other deterrents, you'll keep your stash safe.
 

NoMoreTO

Pelican
Hide factor is big. And not posting to social media, other than RVF.

What the heck is "Team USA Silver" anyway. I guess some american who won a medal got a shipment then sold it off?

OK found it.
t is the job of the United States Olympic Committee to serve as the steward of the Olympic Movement in the United States. Founded in 1894 and headquartered in Colorado Springs, Colorado, the USOC oversees all US Teams for the Olympic Games, Paralympic Games, Youth Olympic Games, Pan American Games, and the Parapan American Games. Right now, 10 oz US Olympic Team Silver Bars are available to you online from JM Bullion.
Bar Highlights:
Arrives in heat-sealed plastic for individual bars or monster boxes with 50 bars!
Celebrate American athletes and the United States Olympic Team!
Contains 10 Troy oz of .999 pure silver.
Obverse features the official emblem of the United States Olympic Committee.
Reverse features the repeating design of the words Team USA.
[attachment=43487]
 

Attachments

Dallas Winston

Ostrich
Gold Member
If buying coins, always best to buy "common date" or any date coins and not, present year, as the premiums are usually cheaper.

And, this pretty much goes without saying, but never buy numismatic "collector" coins. Talk about crazy premiums.
 

oilbreh

Woodpecker
redbeard said:
What's a "normal" premium for buying physical gold? How do you track this, and do you account for it in your buying?
You use to be able to get an ounce of gold for like 20 dollars over spot, sometimes even less on specials. This would a random year (usually an older .999 coin) not in great condition. Something like a .99999 type coin would go for 100 over spot. After that you got into numis and so forth.

You can also use something like builionvault. They have vaults in several countries and hold the actual physical in storage for you. There is a fee, and some counterparty risk. I think if you have enough you can get a bar with your name etched. I have not used them personally.
 
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