Donald Trump orders all churches "essential" and be opened immediately

Very good news!

I hope for many this will serve as a needed wake-up call: there are dark forces struggling to make the dystopia a reality (like Whitmer in Michigan). Those who are most evil are often most prideful. This is why they often overplay their hand.

The struggle continues....
 

LINUX

Ostrich
Gold Member
I draw the line between politics / opinion vs the health of my parents, as the elderly is the majority of church goers.

I'd be the first governor to refuse given what we know at the current time before I allow my parents to go to church.

A church building is NOT essential. Last I heard, people don't need a building or church pews to speak or pray to God and the bible hasn't changed since the corona virus.

This was a political move, nothing more.

Put the health of your parents before your politics because you only have one mother and father.
 

aeroektar

Pelican
I draw the line between politics / opinion vs the health of my parents, as the elderly is the majority of church goers.

I'd be the first governor to refuse given what we know at the current time before I allow my parents to go to church.

A church building is NOT essential. Last I heard, people don't need a building or church pews to speak or pray to God and the bible hasn't changed since the corona virus.

This was a political move, nothing more.

Put the health of your parents before your politics because you only have one mother and father.
So you would refuse peoples rights. We can't do that. If my 70 year old mother wants to go to church, that's her choice, I'll suggest she shouldn't, but we can't indefinitely close the church, or the restaurant, or the store, or force everyone to take a vaccine, because we can't control the vulnerable and stop them from mingling with the public. You're essentially saying people are too dumb to make decisions for themselves, or that you know what's best for them. You don't.
 
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bubs

Newbie
A victory for land of the free and home of the brave people everywhere in this nation. That is what we are, not land of the quarantined and home of the cowardly.
 

LINUX

Ostrich
Gold Member
So you would refuse peoples rights. We can't do that, if my 70 year old mother wants to go to church, that's her choice. Your essentially saying people are too dumb to make decisions for themselves, or that you know what's best for them. You don't.
I see my job as a man is to protect those who cant protect themselves.

That goes for the children and the elderly in MY life, whom I love.

Do what you want with your own parents because I do not care. It's your job to protect them, not mine.

If you want to send your parents to church after 38% out of 92 people in the Arkansas church got corona virus, have at it.

 

aeroektar

Pelican
I see my job as a man is to protect those who cant protect themselves.

That goes for the children and the elderly in MY life, whom I love.

Do what you want with your own parents because I do not care. It's your job to protect them, not mine.

If you want to send your parents to church after 38% out of 92 people in the Arkansas church got corona virus, have at it.

So then do a good job of convincing them to stay indoors, or physically lock them away. But you and the scared people can't dictate how the rest of us live.
 

budoslavic

Crow
Gold Member
Sounds like there was a disagreement between Trump and the CDC goons.

Between the lines: The announcement comes after federal guidelines on reopening churches were delayed over a disagreement between the CDC and the White House over the specifics of what they should look like.

* The CDC released a 60-page road map for states, restaurants, schools, child care programs, mass transit systems and other businesses about reopening earlier this week, but left out details regarding the reopening of places of worship and faith-based organizations.

* Some religious leaders voiced concerns about churches being left out, sources familiar with the discussions tell Axios, prompting Trump to direct the CDC to quickly finish the guidelines.

* Trump told reporters Thursday that the new guidance would be issued in the next few days.

 
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Gimlet

Woodpecker
I see my job as a man is to protect those who cant protect themselves.

That goes for the children and the elderly in MY life, whom I love.

Do what you want with your own parents because I do not care. It's your job to protect them, not mine.

If you want to send your parents to church after 38% out of 92 people in the Arkansas church got corona virus, have at it.

This is a lot of fear mongering, just look at how they use the phrase "attack rates". If a healthy person is "attacked" by COVID-19, who cares? They will either get slightly sick, or not get sick at all. If you did not test them, they would not even show up on anyone's radar. No one would know they have it. The fatality rate is less than 1%.

Note the words, "During contact tracing at least 26 additional persons with confirmed COVID-19 cases were identified among community members who reported contact with church A attendees and likely were infected by them..." so these people were not sick and did not seek treatment. We only know about them because they were stalked by the government.

"...one of the additional persons was hospitalized and subsequently died. " So thanks to contract tracing, it seem likely someone was put on an incubator and now is dead. Or maybe said person was 80. We don't know and they don't tell us.


If you think your parents can't protect themselves, I don't see you can protect them either. They raised you, your genes come from them. Mine can make a decision for themselves.
 
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Easy_C

Crow
Then you’re not required to go.

By the way. 38% of people having the virus seems roughly in line with the real infection rate for any large urban area
 

Easy_C

Crow
This is a lot of fear mongering, just look at how they use the phrase "attack rates". If a healthy person is "attacked" by COVID-19, who cares? They will either get slightly sick, or not get sick at all. If you did not test them, they would not even show up on anyone's radar. No one would know they have it. The fatality rate is less than 1%
Even your post is dramatically overstating the fatality rate for people without those risk factors. The Belgian blood donor test indicates an IFR of 0.08%, so a more accurate description would be “less than 0.1%”.

The virus is deadly for the very old and the obese. For everyone else it’s not that dangerous.

*Yes I do recognize that SOME younger people have died. Risk management based on anecdotes is the wrong way to do it. The right way is to compare the probability and severity of possible outcomes and mitigate appropriately. You can always win the lottery and catch that 1/10,000 chance of dying.

Vulnerable or live with someone who is? Don’t go. You also definitely should NOT be going to crowded box marts which are infinitely more dangerous than churches due to the larger number of people moving through them.
 

LeoneVolpe

Pelican
Gold Member
Already saw some guy on Fox News claiming Trump doesn’t have the power to override the governors, and that evidently the DOJ and lawsuits would have to be involved. Anyone more politically savvy than me know whether or not this is accurate info?
 

budoslavic

Crow
Gold Member
Already saw some guy on Fox News claiming Trump doesn’t have the power to override the governors, and that evidently the DOJ and lawsuits would have to be involved. Anyone more politically savvy than me know whether or not this is accurate info?
The 10th Amendment of the Constitution says powers not delegated to federal government are reserved to the states. Not sure if Trump's legal team found a loophole or a way around it.
 

Forester

Newbie
I draw the line between politics / opinion vs the health of my parents, as the elderly is the majority of church goers.

I'd be the first governor to refuse given what we know at the current time before I allow my parents to go to church.

A church building is NOT essential. Last I heard, people don't need a building or church pews to speak or pray to God and the bible hasn't changed since the corona virus.

This was a political move, nothing more.

Put the health of your parents before your politics because you only have one mother and father.
You are correct in stating that the Bible hasn’t changed since coronavirus, and that people don’t need a building or pews to speak or pray to God. However, while church buildings may not be essential to the secular, post-modern clown-world society we live in, as a matter of theology, it IS essential to the spiritual life of the church to gather together corporately. It is absolutely clear throughout the New Testament, and has been understood throughout church history, that the church is meant to meet regularly and function as a body of believers, and not a bunch of isolated “lone ranger” Christians. In fact, verses such as Heb. 10:24-25 instruct believers to not neglect meeting together.

Does this mean that there are never situations in which the church shouldn’t gather together? No, of course not. I'm sure we could come up with a host of hypothetical situations in which it would be unwise or unloving for a large number of people to gather. Not meeting together for a period of time due to legitimate health or safety concerns would be an exception to the rule however.

So far, at least in my corner of the world, I have yet to see any compelling evidence, numbers, or facts that would necessitate a lot of the questionable measures and rulings the government has established.


Political move? Sure, most likely.
 

Koolking

Sparrow
This is a sea change move. Good will now defeat evil. The White House Press Secretary has told the MSM, a National security threat if there ever was one, to go to hell.
 

doc holliday

Pelican
Gold Member
Thing is, a lot of churches have been practicing social distancing while being open. Many of them had services done while people stayed in their cars in the parking lot of the church. Even these services were and are being shutdown. The whole thing about who can be open and who can't be open has been totally arbitrary, based on junk science and nonsense. Houses of worship have to be closed but grocery stores and corporate chains like Home Depot and Target get to stay open. People can't get their cancer treatments and other medical procedures done but abortions in many states were permitted to continue. How is being in a house of worship with plenty of social distancing riskier than being in a crowded grocery store with panicked people buying up all of the toilet paper and bleach?. Linux, did you do all of the grocery shopping for your parents or did you let them go to the store, even once? Funny how we don't have any idea, any studies about how many people picked up Covid from the grocery stores. I'd say that after nursing homes and hospitals, the grocery stores and the department stores were teeming with this virus.

The First Amendment is the First Amendment, period. It doesn't get suspended in a pandemic. If people can go buy weed and booze during a pandemic then they can carefully go to a church and seek some solace during one. At this point, anyone who is too sick or too afraid to go out should stay at home. Quarantines are for the sick and vulnerable, not the healthy.
 
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