Doubts about SSPX

[FactusIRX]

I attend an SSPX church in one of the bluest of the blue parts of California and we didn't close or wear masks during Covid lockdowns. There are a couple parishioners who wear the mask, but of those they are either Mexican or Filipino( the minorities tend to believe in covid) and an older white couple.

That was my experience as well. The SSPX Church was the only place I could go and not feel like an outsider.

 

[Papist]

I attend an SSPX church in one of the bluest of the blue parts of California and we didn't close or wear masks during Covid lockdowns. There are a couple parishioners who wear the mask, but of those they are either Mexican or Filipino( the minorities tend to believe in covid) and an older white couple.

I'm still new to the faith having been raised a Seventh Day Adventist and then on my own attending a Baptist church for years. I believe I was lead to the SSPX by Divinity and I am thankful of that grace that was given to me daily.

I live around four miles from an SSPX church. I am attracted to the SSPX because of their strong adherence to tradition and thier R&R stance essentially.

I am currently reading Bishop Williamson's biography, which has given me a brief history of the SSPX, and intend to read more about Archbishop Lefebvre (how does one pronounce his name?). Like you, I am new to the Catholic faith and am looking to convert. How do you cope with the Latin mass?

I'm becoming more involved in the SSPX Church, and having my marriage recognized by the Church. I tried Orthodox Churches, but unfortunately, my experience was they were either completely based on ethnic lines, or in the case of the OCA, completed bended the knee to the government during COVID. The SSPX Church was the only one that pushed back on COVID hysteria, and I need a like minded community when the mandatory vaccines are rolled out.

As with BasedBaker, I'd be interested to know how you cope with the Latin mass. Given that I too am new to the faith, is there anything I should do to prepare myself? I have been reading the Fisheaters website, which is pretty good.

 

[FactusIRX]

As with BasedBaker, I'd be interested to know how you cope with the Latin mass. Given that I too am new to the faith, is there anything I should do to prepare myself? I have been reading the Fisheaters website, which is pretty good.

I would just go to it and see if you like it. You probably won't be able to follow most of it the first time, but you'll get a sense of it. If you like it, you can purchase a Missal, which you can use to follow the Mass. I use the 1962 Angelus Press version.

 

[Papist]

I would just go to it and see if you like it. You probably won't be able to follow most of it the first time, but you'll get a sense of it. If you like it, you can purchase a Missal, which you can use to follow the Mass. I use the 1962 Angelus Press version.

Thanks. In fact there are services online which I could watch, too.


Regarding the Catholic Church in general, does anyone else know of any prophecy regarding the Church being tested during the End Times? I came across this website, which is useful: catholicprophecy.org

 

[BasedBaker]

I'm becoming more involved in the SSPX Church, and having my marriage recognized by the Church. I tried Orthodox Churches, but unfortunately, my experience was they were either completely based on ethnic lines, or in the case of the OCA, completed bended the knee to the government during COVID. The SSPX Church was the only one that pushed back on COVID hysteria, and I need a like minded community when the mandatory vaccines are rolled out

I live around four miles from an SSPX church. I am attracted to the SSPX because of their strong adherence to tradition and thier R&R stance essentially.

I am currently reading Bishop Williamson's biography, which has given me a brief history of the SSPX, and intend to read more about Archbishop Lefebvre (how does one pronounce his name?). Like you, I am new to the Catholic faith and am looking to convert. How do you cope with the Latin mass?


As with BasedBaker, I'd be interested to know how you cope with the Latin mass. Given that I too am new to the faith, is there anything I should do to prepare myself? I have been reading the Fisheaters website, which is pretty good.

You pronounce it "Le-FEB" like in February. When you say cope with the Latin Mass what do you mean, like understand it?

 

[Papist]

You pronounce it "Le-FEB" like in February. When you say cope with the Latin Mass what do you mean, like understand it?

Aye, understand it or follow it, at least. I'm not sure whether the congregation is expected to participate at all, either. I will endeavour to familiarise myself with the Latin in time.

Thanks for the pronunciation guidance (I am currently unable to 'like' posts, btw). The 'vre' is completely silent, then?

 

[J.E.]

I attend an SSPX church in one of the bluest of the blue parts of California and we didn't close or wear masks during Covid lockdowns. There are a couple parishioners who wear the mask, but of those they are either Mexican or Filipino( the minorities tend to believe in covid) and an older white couple.

I'm still new to the faith having been raised a Seventh Day Adventist and then on my own attending a Baptist church for years. I believe I was lead to the SSPX by Divinity and I am thankful of that grace that was given to me daily.

Sounds similar to my life: raised SDA, was searching for churches, attended a Baptist church for almost a year, didn't visit any church and then started frequenting a SSPX parish and now I will be baptized on Easter Vigil.

The parish has a mask mandate since December, but I'm one of the few (or the only one) who doesn't wear a diaper. One of the parishioners had said to me that I should wear a mask in case the Mass will be shut down. I told him I don't adhere to legislatures from pedophiles and as the feminists always say I say the same: "My body my choice", then he was quiet.

One time the priest announced during Mass that "it is not unchristian to be vaccinated" despite he would never take the shot himself. I didn't know what to think of that. The private and public face he shows is something I don't like. He made that announcement because (I think) a Bishop told so for his diocese, still, why?

 

[BasedBaker]

Sounds similar to my life: raised SDA, was searching for churches, attended a Baptist church for almost a year, didn't visit any church and then started frequenting a SSPX parish and now I will be baptized on Easter Vigil.

The parish has a mask mandate since December, but I'm one of the few (or the only one) who doesn't wear a diaper. One of the parishioners had said to me that I should wear a mask in case the Mass will be shut down. I told him I don't adhere to legislatures from pedophiles and as the feminists always say I say the same: "My body my choice", then he was quiet.

One time the priest announced during Mass that "it is not unchristian to be vaccinated" despite he would never take the shot himself. I didn't know what to think of that. The private and public face he shows is something I don't like. He made that announcement because (I think) a Bishop told so for his diocese, still, why?

That's interesting. I'm pretty surprised to hear that, I would wager to guess that you are in a more conservative part of the country than I am, since it would be difficult to get any deeper blue than me so surprising that he would make those comments or the parishioners would be so mask compliant. My wife and I are meeting with our priest today so I'll ask him his thoughts on the vax. So far the topic has not been broached but from conversations with him and from what he has said to the congregation the mask is/was never to be required, but also if some want to wear it they are fine.

My parents are still very devout SDA's and beyond anything I could say/do to convince them otherwise they are misguided. It will take a miracle from the Almighty to get them to see through that veil.

 

[J.E.]

That's interesting. I'm pretty surprised to hear that, I would wager to guess that you are in a more conservative part of the country than I am, since it would be difficult to get any deeper blue than me so surprising that he would make those comments or the parishioners would be so mask compliant.

I live in an entirely different country and they enacted a mask-mandate for churches in December. Not all parishioners complied but quickly everybody complied, even those I thought would not. I was shocked how weak and eager they were to compromise. Additionally, only the choir is allowed to sing and nobody else. When they are willing to compromise already, God knows on what else they will compromize.

How did your meeting with the priest go?

 

[NoMoreTO]

I live in an entirely different country and they enacted a mask-mandate for churches in December. Not all parishioners complied but quickly everybody complied, even those I thought would not. I was shocked how weak and eager they were to compromise. Additionally, only the choir is allowed to sing and nobody else. When they are willing to compromise already, God knows on what else they will compromize.

How did your meeting with the priest go?

Yes I had a similar experience with the SSPX I am going to. The Church is relatively new to me, as I've been in a new area since March 2020 and there have been on and off closures / restrictions since then.

- Initially the Church had 0 masks. Even after the mask mandate.
- After the mask mandate things did pick up.
- Some emails went out about wearing a mask
- I saw my first Priest in a mass, praying in the Church, not during liturgy
- I still went in last sunday without a mask hassle free , but recently they are sending out emails saying they think inspectors are coming and we should put our masks on just in case.

At the end of the day it numbs my mind just to type all of this in. Many of us on here are younger guys, single guys, so we are able to take risks or stands. On the other side of things, you've got families and older people who want their sacraments and are willing to put the mask on to continue with their lives.

If your faith is strong it isn't a sin by definition, although I feel a certain shame when I am pressured into putting it on and I do.

 

[J.E.]

Yes I had a similar experience with the SSPX I am going to. The Church is relatively new to me, as I've been in a new area since March 2020 and there have been on and off closures / restrictions since then.

- Initially the Church had 0 masks. Even after the mask mandate.
- After the mask mandate things did pick up.
- Some emails went out about wearing a mask
- I saw my first Priest in a mass, praying in the Church, not during liturgy
- I still went in last sunday without a mask hassle free , but recently they are sending out emails saying they think inspectors are coming and we should put our masks on just in case.

At the end of the day it numbs my mind just to type all of this in. Many of us on here are younger guys, single guys, so we are able to take risks or stands. On the other side of things, you've got families and older people who want their sacraments and are willing to put the mask on to continue with their lives.

If your faith is strong it isn't a sin by definition, although I feel a certain shame when I am pressured into putting it on and I do.

I believe it is a sin to wear a mask since it symbolizes obedience to a false god and new higher power. Just because it isn't in name it surely is in practice. Wearing a face-diaper in a church of all places is a sacrilege in my eyes. The priest and altar boys don't wear it, so I figured to sit in the very front to have some feeling of normalcy. My priest called me the day before the Mass was celebrated with the mandate to be sure that I am officially exempted to avoid trouble just in case.

I make an exception in my job and wear it only when I deliver to big corporations, hospitals or doctor's offices. Still, I feel like a sellout for wearing the face-diaper. The only thing I gained was the perspective of the sheeple: you feel accepted but not normal since nobody can see your face and vice-versa. There is sometimes a confusion and longing in one's eyes because they want to see what you feel and who you are and want to close the bridge. This whole experience is so surreal and schizophrenic that I cannot comprehend how the masses can buy into it.

We as single men can afford it, but parents should even more so abhor the laws to set an example for their children. A compromized Mass is, in some way, what Vatican II did half a century ago. Interesting to see how quickly the Traditionalists bowed before the state, despite many Prophets and Saints having withstood way worse persecution and torture. Most Christians are a joke and I do understand why the Desert Fathers went into the desert when Christianity was secularized: it was (and is) way harder to be among genuine believers. Modern Christians observe formalities over reason, though Traditional Catholics may claim otherwise, they don't know what they're talking about.

Alright man, I gotta stop ranting here. Just ... my disappointment shouldn't be but is immeasurable.

 

[NoMoreTO]

I believe it is a sin to wear a mask since it symbolizes obedience to a false god and new higher power.

I agree, but on a very practical level perhaps not. We pay taxes unto Caesar and our governments commit infanticide. I have struggled with this part of obedience. Is the mask the same?

We know it is evil and messed up. If putting on the mask is a sin it perhaps is because of a lack of fortitude or sense of justice. However if your Priest tells you to put it on, what type of position does that put you in.

The masses do dissappoint.

 

[Sitting Bull]

I agree, but on a very practical level perhaps not. We pay taxes unto Caesar and our governments commit infanticide. I have struggled with this part of obedience. Is the mask the same?

We know it is evil and messed up. If putting on the mask is a sin it perhaps is because of a lack of fortitude or sense of justice. However if your Priest tells you to put it on, what type of position does that put you in.

The case of the governement and the priest are very different IMHO.
The only thing government does is forcing you to pay taxes some of which are used to fund infanticide. You have no choice in the matter, it's basically no different from someone robbing you at gunpoint.
Regarding the priest part, the idea of "unconditional obedience" is an anti-Catholic cliché, which because of today's confusion is believed even by many Catholics. Need I remind you that even the strictest obedience vow that exists in the world, that of jesuits to the Pope, does not extend to what is sinful.

"When there is proximate danger for the faith, prelates must be questioned, even publicly, by their subjects." Summa Theol. IIa IIae art. 33, 4,2.

 

[J.E.]

We know it is evil and messed up. If putting on the mask is a sin it perhaps is because of a lack of fortitude or sense of justice. However if your Priest tells you to put it on, what type of position does that put you in.

I agree with the statement of @Sitting Bull:

Regarding the priest part, the idea of "unconditional obedience" is an anti-Catholic cliché, which because of today's confusion is believed even by many Catholics. Need I remind you that even the strictest obedience vow that exists in the world, that of jesuits to the Pope, does not extend to what is sinful.

"When there is proximate danger for the faith, prelates must be questioned, even publicly, by their subjects." Summa Theol. IIa IIae art. 33, 4,2.

The most vocal Catholics, including the priest at my parish take obedience too far. And you cannot compare taxation to something you have direct control over. As a man you change things only on a micro-level, so you gotta stick to what you actually can influence, like not wearing a face-diaper and telling people about the hoax. Wearing these masks, prohibiting singing and gatherings are all dangerous to the faith in particular and to mental health in general. At this point becoming a monk in a monastery in the mountains is favourable than to whatever else we have to put up with.

 

[chronologicaldot]

Just for those who read the first page and are interested:

I mean, during Vatican II, the Church came out and formally announced that Jews were not responsible for Jesus's death. I'm not familiar enough with theology to know if it is fair to have contempt for modern-day Jews because of Jesus's death, but the fact that the Vatican felt the need to formally disavow Christians who hold this view is at best very suspicious.

The actual line is: "the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today."

The wording here is critical. It says ALL. Some were certainly responsible. ALL were not. What the church says tends to be skewed alot by the media. I feel this is the same with Pope Francis and the popes since Pius X.

My (albeit not as well-informed as some others' here) view is that, while Vatican II doesn't technically go against Church teachings, its ratification was, in a sense, a wink and a nod to the modernists and subversives, signaling that the Catholic Church was willing to play ball.

One example of this is the Vatican II teaching that procreation is no longer considered the sole primary purpose of the sexual act, but that the unification of husband and wife was now on equal footing with procreation as the primary purpose of the sexual act (No, I don't have direct sources to back this up. I believe I heard it on Dr. Taylor Marshall's Youtube channel but I could be mistaken).

To understand this, you need to read John Paul II's Theology of the Body. He explains in fancy words that the unitive (the having of sex) and procreative (the having of children) meanings of the body must come together for the full "truth of the body". However, God designed in a natural period in women in which they are infertile, and couples may use such a period of time for exercising unity PROVIDED that they don't utilize it as a means of avoiding their eventual responsibility to have children.

After reading great explanations like JPII's TOB, it's sad to me that people consider him a heretic. Misunderstood I can understand. Anti-pope, no.

 

[Papist]

Just some thoughts I have been having. In Matthew 16 Jesus is quoted thus:

"That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

A quick internet search for prevail elicits the following:

1. prove more powerful or superior.
"it is hard for logic to prevail over emotion"

Does this not imply that the Church will come under attack? At the very least it indicates the church will be tested, or there will be some sort of clash between the Church and Satan, does it not?

Since the 1960s there has been an attack on Church tradition. The SSPX represents the defender of that tradition. So long as that tradition survives, surely the Church survives, too?