Drama in the alt lite / new right

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Sumanguru

Kingfisher
RE: Drama in the "new right"

Roosh said:
Because its a cancer that'll turn a possibly viable and valuable movement into an irrelevant one of a tiny group of fringe crazies?

So what? Why are you so eager to be accepted by the mainstream?

Roosh,

that's not what I said.

It's like the thread you posted with the old white woman who went racist on the Mexicans who (allegedly) cut ahead of her in line. (If they did cut ahead of her in line) she had a valid beef and good on her for standing up for it and for all the people in line who were silent but annoyed at the BS. But then she goes "Go back to your country." Forget about the media branding her racist, we know the media is full of shit. How many people in that line of all races did she lose cause of that? How many people watching of all races did she lose?

I'm not talking about winning or losing "the mainstream." The press and academia are garbage. I'm talking about the alt-right failing to win over regular people, or people like me, or many on this forum--white and non-white--who should be ideologically aligned to it, who share many of the principles and concepts, who are sick of feminism/liberalism/political correctness, but aren't cool with the alt-right's racism and white nationalism. And I don't mean we're not cool with it because its politically incorrect OMGNO! I mean I'm not cool with it cause its idpol bullshit.
 

Thersites

Kingfisher
RE: Drama in the "new right"

Thanks to MSM, the public in general has been condition to subconsciously recoil from anyone that mention the JQ or anything regarding white nationalism. My personal reasoning, MikeC and Milo are try desensitization the general public from kneejerk reaction that the leftism has imposed upon us. Once the public is desensitized, you can stay having honest conversation about JQ or white nationalism.
Disagreements will happen in any movement, but keep them in private.
 

Private Man

Kingfisher
Gold Member
RE: Drama in the "new right"

It astounds me that this shit was made public via Twitter and Periscope. That was a mistake of epic proportions and will never go away now.

Seriously, if you have a beef with a guy (personally or professionally), keep it private! Work it out between yourselves and agree to keep it away from the masses. Then keep to that agreement as the righteous, honorable men we are.

Eyes are upon us. Those eyes are hostile, vicious, and looking specifically for this kind of nasty, internal drama. I don't care if you're MRA, PUA, or MGTOW, personal conflicts are just that, personal!

I stayed out of this political cycle precisely because of this kind of shit.
 

Foolsgo1d

Peacock
RE: Drama in the "new right"

The fact they have a lot of people riled up over "the Jews" is proof of their success in their early plans to dismantle the movement or whatever you want to call it.

Majority of people do not know or care about the manosphere, alt-right, stormfront, jewish influence, Arab influence etc. They care about instant gratification, jobs, fucking and getting the weekend here and now.

If you start throwing this stuff out there you will be ignored and forgotten. People will not accept the truth until its in their face.

Its easy to fight politicians over twitter and facebook but they have a legitimate platform, we don't.
 

Agastya

Kingfisher
RE: Drama in the "new right"

Sumanguru said:
Roosh said:
Because its a cancer that'll turn a possibly viable and valuable movement into an irrelevant one of a tiny group of fringe crazies?

So what? Why are you so eager to be accepted by the mainstream?

Roosh,

that's not what I said.

It's like the thread you posted with the old white woman who went racist on the Mexicans who (allegedly) cut ahead of her in line. (If they did cut ahead of her in line) she had a valid beef and good on her for standing up for it and for all the people in line who were silent but annoyed at the BS. But then she goes "Go back to your country." Forget about the media branding her racist, we know the media is full of shit. How many people in that line of all races did she lose cause of that? How many people watching of all races did she lose?

I'm not talking about winning or losing "the mainstream." The press and academia are garbage. I'm talking about the alt-right failing to win over regular people, or people like me, or many on this forum--white and non-white--who should be ideologically aligned to it, who share many of the principles and concepts, who are sick of feminism/liberalism/political correctness, but aren't cool with the alt-right's racism and white nationalism. And I don't mean we're not cool with it because its politically incorrect OMGNO! I mean I'm not cool with it cause its idpol bullshit.

This is an accurate assessment of the way that massive portions of society currently feel. No one hopes or wants to convince Huffington Post or Thought Catalogue to change their viewpoints. As another poster said following Trump's election, the actual SJW's will just double down on their stupidity--it's just in their nature. We're not talking about those people. Instead we're talking about the many normal individuals who don't want to deal with the batshit fringe of the right wing. Being "accepted" by the mainstream media is impossible, but broadening our appeal to a larger portion of society is eminently possible.
 
RE: Drama in the "new right"

Usually it can be summarized as thus: If person X has some kind of brand to protect, they will move heaven and earth to distance themselves from the proper alt-right elements discussing race, JQ and other such questions. Cernovich has his books to push so he does that, same with Infowars and PrisonPlanet and Bill Mitchel. People who are not intrinsically tied to a product that they need to sell have more freedom in what they can speak about.

Roosh and Matt Forney also have more freedom because hey, they're PUA teachers and most of the MSM world already thinks they're if not Hitler then at least something like a Rape-Hitler, so one more false label won't do any harm after the Canada fiasco, they're persona non grata to the cucked beta world anyway

I had some screenshot were Cernovich and PrisonPlanet proclaim how they "ALT-RIGHT TO THE BITTER END BRO" and then some months later "oh no no alt-right? me? nah that's not me man I just lisp some Gorilla mindset yo!"
 

scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
RE: Drama in the "new right"

Roosh said:
Commercial brands in the new right need a high level of stability and predictability to operate, especially after power aims are reached. They are therefore incompatible with a chaotic general movement that can be extreme and agitate for revolution. This is why the brands in the new right don't want things to get too extreme. It makes sense commercially, but the cost is they lose the edgelord respect of being a part of the movement they had catered to. You will then get cycles of disavowals, infighting, and purges.

If you look at how individual commercial brands succeed, they usually establish their own island independent of any movement (e.g. Anthony Robbins), or else they will be constantly at whim of the mob and fleeting trends which is not good for business.

This is why I'm curious to see where Cernovich is going with his whole operation. Prior to the Trump phenomenon his platform was almost entirely lifestyle and self-improvement focused (although he seemed to dip his toe into the political waters with Gamergate). But after sensing an opportunity, he was able to catapult himself into much greater popularity and influence levels through shifting his content toward alt-right politics. You followed a similar trajectory, but your political shift was more gradual and organic (and partially thrust upon you by people who declared themselves your enemy, forcing you to defend yourself).

Cernovich is obviously ambitious and wants to grow his brand (and good for him), but if his shift from lifestyle content to politics is permanent then that means he now has a financial incentive to make his political brand palatable to as many people as possible. And that is understandable, and is not in itself a bad thing (that is essentially the art of politics itself). It does mean, however, that he will, out of necessity, seek to distance himself reflexively from the more controversial figures on the alt-right, regardless of whether or not what those people are saying is true. Basically, Cernovich is positioning himself to be a legitimate new media figure. He doesn't want to be part of the mainstream media establishment, but he wants a similar level of influence, stature and recognition. And he doesn't think that's possible if he is associated with anyone who publicly questions the out-sized influence of Jewish power structures in the West. He senses, correctly, that that issue is still, now - even post-Trump victory and post-2016 mainstreaming of the alt-right - politically radioactive.

The danger is that Cernovich and other influential figures (who have their own financial or personal incentives for discouraging discussion of Jews) will wind up, despite their best intentions, becoming the thought police of the right. And frankly, we don't need that. As an ideology centered on the idea of truth, the alt-right rejects all thought policing as a foundational principle. Just as we refuse to have our thoughts and opinions censored by the left, and we also refuse to be censored by our fellows on the right. If you want to talk tactics and the optics of public relations, that's one thing. But if we wind up in the position of self-censoring and actively censoring others within the movement because we find their message "offensive" or "divisive", then we've officially entered the territory of SJWs and are in deep trouble.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
RE: Drama in the "new right"

I don't understand everything to the fine details, (I just read Roosh's link of the summary), but Mike needs to build a better coalition around himself. I need to piggyback off of what Scorpion said. It looks like a circus. Milo has no business being involved with us (Roosh you really should consider thinking about closing his thread here, based on your own rules), and Mike really should not affiliate himself with that guy either.

Mike needs to think more long term and more strategically. He is making the same mistakes Ann Coulter (or Malkin) and similar conservatives made when they were younger. He will be in his 50s getting before he figures it out at this rate. I bet he is still high from his battle against FOX, but in the end, he eventually needs to get back onto TV and build his portfolio within the Republican/Conservative space. Hanging out with circus freaks that have poor temperament, are unprofessional, and not serious is not going to get it done. Perhaps he could use more allies from him home space (talking about us), but I don't think the rest of us are ready to expose ourselves yet. I'm getting close, but I am not ready myself. Until then, he is going to have to get better alliances with legit conservatives and work within the process.

They might be dry and come off as old fogeys, but he is a father now. No older men with power and connections take younger men with no children seriously and most of the time it because of this. They need to know they can trust you. I know we tend to be anti-corporate around here but there is profound wisdom in good order and organization. Corporations succeed and make money because those methods work well. Politics is not much different. Men with something to lose (skin in the game) will only trust another in the same boat. I know his kid is young (mine are too), but he has to start putting himself into position, so that God can bless him with a position of authority and power. He himself has to understand that he has to be more responsible with the authority he is commanding younger troops with right now even!

If he needs to, he could lead us younger guys and build a newer coalition of new age conservatives. If he wants to think outside the box, he can always do that too, but iron will always sharpen iron. He does not have to be the next George Will, but he cannot continue to wallow in mud with people of dubious character. Aurini learned this same lesson last year and it cost him alot of money. Mike would benefit getting more advice from Aurini or even working with him more in some capacity as well. If he is too afraid to work with anyone alt-right based, then that is all the more reason he needs to learn how to work within the existing conservative groups right now. If he puts in the work, he might be on the staff for Trump's second term or whoever comes after him. When Trump's staff goes through people searches, guys like Mike right now are not touchable. Gotta fix that now if he wants to build his name bigger in this space.

He can still keep a Gorilla Mindset and still work within the mainstream system. We are men, not special unicorns. We lead other men, and the best way to do that is by example.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
RE: Drama in the "new right"

scorpion said:
Roosh said:
Commercial brands in the new right need a high level of stability and predictability to operate, especially after power aims are reached. They are therefore incompatible with a chaotic general movement that can be extreme and agitate for revolution. This is why the brands in the new right don't want things to get too extreme. It makes sense commercially, but the cost is they lose the edgelord respect of being a part of the movement they had catered to. You will then get cycles of disavowals, infighting, and purges.

If you look at how individual commercial brands succeed, they usually establish their own island independent of any movement (e.g. Anthony Robbins), or else they will be constantly at whim of the mob and fleeting trends which is not good for business.

This is why I'm curious to see where Cernovich is going with his whole operation. Prior to the Trump phenomenon his platform was almost entirely lifestyle and self-improvement focused (although he seemed to dip his toe into the political waters with Gamergate). But after sensing an opportunity, he was able to catapult himself into much greater popularity and influence levels through shifting his content toward alt-right politics. You followed a similar trajectory, but your political shift was more gradual and organic (and partially thrust upon you by people who declared themselves your enemy, forcing you to defend yourself).

Cernovich is obviously ambitious and wants to grow his brand (and good for him), but if his shift from lifestyle content to politics is permanent then that means he now has a financial incentive to make his political brand palatable to as many people as possible. And that is understandable, and is not in itself a bad thing (that is essentially the art of politics itself). It does mean, however, that he will, out of necessity, seek to distance himself reflexively from the more controversial figures on the alt-right, regardless of whether or not what those people are saying is true. Basically, Cernovich is positioning himself to be a legitimate new media figure. He doesn't want to be part of the mainstream media establishment, but he wants a similar level of influence, stature and recognition. And he doesn't think that's possible if he is associated with anyone who publicly questions the out-sized influence of Jewish power structures in the West. He senses, correctly, that that issue is still, now - even post-Trump victory and post-2016 mainstreaming of the alt-right - politically radioactive.

The danger is that Cernovich and other influential figures (who have their own financial or personal incentives for discouraging discussion of Jews) will wind up, despite their best intentions, becoming the thought police of the right. And frankly, we don't need that. As an ideology centered on the idea of truth, the alt-right rejects all thought policing as a foundational principle. Just as we refuse to have our thoughts and opinions censored by the left, and we also refuse to be censored by our fellows on the right. If you want to talk tactics and the optics of public relations, that's one thing. But if we wind up in the position of self-censoring and actively censoring others within the movement because we find their message "offensive" or "divisive", then we've officially entered the territory of SJWs and are in deep trouble.

Good points that echo my same sentiment. He has to keep better company with other like minded males/females in the political sphere.

I think he will naturally drift into a better spot, but if he doesn't want to waste time, he needs to make adjustments right now, and not only when his child is old enough to go to school. By then, he has lost alot of time on what we call "Political Capital." The amount you can build is often times limited and you have to invest early to avoid wasting the prime years you could have used it.

Me personally, I think he should go back to what got him up there to begin with and stop picking fights with mainstream media. He might be close to a breakthrough, but at this rate, he will end up going back into lifestyle stuff. Nothing wrong with that, but he has more talent/skills in other things that could serve him and his family better in the long term.

Guys who were not working in politics since college or right after in public sector, tend to struggle alot when starting out in it, but it is almost never too late to get it right. Trump is a great example of that. Even when you are a seasoned politician or pundit, you still need advice, because you cannot always notice bad directions when you are in the middle of a issue.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
RE: Drama in the "new right"

I did a Periscope on the issue:

https://www.periscope.tv/rooshv/1YqKDAVWbrLGV

Summary:

-Mike didn't give a way for Tim to save face, hence the public fight
-This is becoming an issue of the brands versus the non-brands
-Movements are mobs. If you want to build a business on top of a mob, you have to do what they want
-I don't believe in having a brand. Neomasculinity is a catch-all to get out of the infighting cycle of movements
-Mike will probably need to divorce himself from all movements and do his own thing
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
RE: Drama in the "new right"

Roosh said:
I did a Periscope on the issue:

https://www.periscope.tv/rooshv/1YqKDAVWbrLGV

Summary:

-Mike didn't give a way for Tim to save face, hence the public fight
-This is becoming an issue of the brands versus the non-brands
-Movements are mobs. If you want to build a business on top of a mob, you have to do what they want
-I don't believe in having a brand. Neomasculinity is a catch-all to get out of the infighting cycle of movements
-Mike will probably need to divorce himself from all movements and do his own thing

Well said Roosh.

That highlighted one was a big one. He gave him no way out, which is part of just good ol fashioned politics in general. Easing your hand out of a animal's jaws always makes more sense than just yanking it out.
 

Sooth

Pelican
Gold Member
RE: Drama in the "new right"

Mike is working to combat the JQ in real life by building an empire of his own to take away part of their control. Mike has a plan and is looking 5-10 years into the future on how to make real change.

The alt right anime avitars would rather stay anonymous and start drama from the sidelines. They think the Jews are at fault for them being losers and not having a cutie pie girlfriend because the Jews did feminism don't ya know.

People like Mike and Roosh have their finger on the pulse of culture and are doing more of a dance, trying to slowly progress to a society that is better for everyone.

These alt right guys want to AMOG your grandmother into becoming a neo Nazi.

I think Roosh is right in that now Trump won, having no solid traget now means there is going to be this infighting.

It's clear to me now that if you want to get anything done you can't rely on the mob, and very seldom on other people. You have to do it yourself.
 

Enoch

Hummingbird
RE: Drama in the "new right"

I think most criticisms of the WN part of the alt right straw man it a bit. Few argue that small numbers of high IQ non whites who immigrate legally are not welcome. It's the hordes of somalis and mestizos that the (((elite))) push on the American public that is the problem. Mike and Bill have a powerful commercial interest in reaching normies who would otherwise be turned off by racial IQ discussion, etc.
 

weambulance

Hummingbird
Gold Member
RE: Drama in the "new right"

SamuelBRoberts said:
Have we ever considered that maybe Cernovich just doesn't like Nazis, or people who go around play-acting as Nazis?

Pointing out that the overwhelming majority of media in this country is owned by Jews does not make one a Nazi, or a Nazi LARPer.
 

SirTimothy

Kingfisher
RE: Drama in the "new right"

On the subject of Deploraball, Sam Hyde was also going to be there originally, but apparently cancelled. Supposedly they asked Richard Spencer not to come (not sure if he had already bought a ticket or something) so Sam gave his ticket to someone else. I thought he might be joking at first, but his name has been removed from the event page. Baked Alaska said that it was not actually Deploraball that told Spencer he was not allowed, but the National Press Club.

What a mess.
 
RE: Drama in the "new right"

Sooth said:
Mike is working to combat the JQ in real life by building an empire of his own to take away part of their control. Mike has a plan and is looking 5-10 years into the future on how to make real change.

The alt right anime avitars would rather stay anonymous and start drama from the sidelines. They think the Jews are at fault for them being losers and not having a cutie pie girlfriend because the Jews did feminism don't ya know.

People like Mike and Roosh have their finger on the pulse of culture and are doing more of a dance, trying to slowly progress to a society that is better for everyone.

These alt right guys want to AMOG your grandmother into becoming a neo Nazi.

I think Roosh is right in that now Trump won, having no solid traget now means there is going to be this infighting.

It's clear to me now that if you want to get anything done you can't rely on the mob, and very seldom on other people. You have to do it yourself.

I credit RVF for real progressive thinking but it's funny how shame language calling people losers because they dare question The Narrative is thrown out even on here. :dodgy:
 
RE: Drama in the "new right"

weambulance said:
Pointing out that the overwhelming majority of media in this country is owned by Jews does not make one a Nazi, or a Nazi LARPer.

Is that what happened, though? I saw Cernovich's message to Baked Alaska because he posted it. It said "Stop doing Nazi salutes" and "Cut out the JQ bullshit." The JQ (Jewish Question), of course, is a phrase associated with Nazis.

Cernovich didn't get mad at Alaska for questioning Jewish representation in the media. He got mad because Alaska was being a Nazi LARPer.

Alaska was doing nazi salutes, and using nazi phrasing. That's what got Cernovich upset. He doesn't want pseudo-Nazis at his big event, or associated with him. Cernovich's publisher, Vox Day, has written all kinds of things about Jewish influence in the US, and Cernovich hasn't said a peep. This is presumably because Vox is smart enough not to go cloaking himself in nazi rhetoric like a teenager trying to be edgy.
 

Enoch

Hummingbird
RE: Drama in the "new right"

Roosh said:
SJW or new right?



This dichotomy has been discussed before the MC / BA beef. Civic nationalism versus ethnic nationalism.

On the side of Civic Nationalism:

Mike Cernovich
Bill Mitchell
Paul Joseph Watson
Alex Jones

On the side of Ethnic Nationalism:

Ramz Paul
Fash the Nation
The Daily Shoah
SBPDL

The most fair minded alternative media types on this issue are Vox Day and Roosh, who address it as a small part of their platform. I just don't think you can make a living as a media personality pushing ethnic nationalism as your number one talking point.

Vox Day's blog should be a daily visit for all RVF members.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/
 
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