Drama in the alt lite / new right

[Slim Shady]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

^^ That's unreal; his older tweets about not pissing off Twitter were an obvious sign that he wasn't all the way red-pilled though.

How many of these guys really get it? Can you count on "good ol' Southern boy" Conservatives as real allies when they'd readily white knight for women and sell you out for example? That criticism is fair of the edgy white supremacist types too, who will white knight for women of their race.

Tweets like that give the WN edgelords more fodder and allow them to overlook their own deficiencies, however that tweet needs to be called out. America First is great, SJW buzzwords aren't.

 

[Enigma]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Denying that "brands" matter is no different than game denialism.

Branding is not restricted to commercial applications. Everyone thinks in terms of branding, and everyone has a brand, good or bad, whether it's the Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton.

A massive part of Trump's campaign success was branding -- Make America Great Again, Build the Wall, and many less obvious examples. And on the flip side, he also showed us how a bad brand can completely destroy you, e.g., Low Energy Jeb, Lyin' Ted, etc.

Again, branding matters whether you like it or not, whether you choose to "build" your brand or totally ignore it and hope for the best. It's a fundamental part of human psychology, and it's not going away.

People can disagree on specific politics, but every time I see people claim Cernovich is just a shilling opportunist, it just reminds me of some beta saying some player "only has a hot gf because he's a douchebag".

The facts of the matter are, Mike went from political nobody to a massively influential figure in the election, and passed up A LOT of money in the process. If you don't want to associate with his more "mainstream" approach, that's fine, but the Alt-Right seems to specialize in pettiness and butt hurt.

By the way, Mike isn't even Jewish. His middle name is even Christian, as far as I know.

 

[weambulance]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Is that what happened, though? I saw Cernovich's message to Baked Alaska because he posted it. It said "Stop doing Nazi salutes" and "Cut out the JQ bullshit." The JQ (Jewish Question), of course, is a phrase associated with Nazis.

Cernovich didn't get mad at Alaska for questioning Jewish representation in the media. He got mad because Alaska was being a Nazi LARPer.

Alaska was doing nazi salutes, and using nazi phrasing. That's what got Cernovich upset. He doesn't want pseudo-Nazis at his big event, or associated with him. Cernovich's publisher, Vox Day, has written all kinds of things about Jewish influence in the US, and Cernovich hasn't said a peep. This is presumably because Vox is smart enough not to go cloaking himself in nazi rhetoric like a teenager trying to be edgy.

You got any citations for those claims about Baked Alaska's behavior? Primary sources please, because that's not what I saw when I started looking into this last night. Scanning his twitter for the last week I see him talking about white genocide and a few mentions of Jewish control of the media.

Mike is not a reliable source in this matter, as far as it goes, but "Nazi LARPing" is not even what he claimed Alaska was doing in the messages he sent where he delivered his ultimatum. He referenced the Nazi salute business as an example of a fuckup, obviously talking about Richard Spencer.

Vox Day has said things far edgier than anything Baked Alaska has said, and for much longer. But Vox Day isn't a business partner with Mike other than acting as his publisher. Mike has no power at all over VD and Mike knows VD is a dangerous guy to fuck around with. Of course he's not saying anything negative about him. There's nothing but downsides to doing so.

Finally the phrase "Jewish question" predates the Nazis by 40 years and has been used by many movements besides the Nazis. Just because the Nazis referenced it, does not mean it's now forever and always a Nazi thing. That's as ridiculous a claim as the one made by that fucktard who was saying the phoenix on the MAGA Mindset cover looked like a Nazi eagle symbol. Is Mike going to have to read himself out of his own brand because he used Nazi symbolism now?

 

[Enoch]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Denying that "brands" matter is no different than game denialism.

Branding is not restricted to commercial applications. Everyone thinks in terms of branding, and everyone has a brand, good or bad, whether it's the Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton.

A massive part of Trump's campaign success was branding -- Make America Great Again, Build the Wall, and many less obvious examples. And on the flip side, he also showed us how a bad brand can completely destroy you, e.g., Low Energy Jeb, Lyin' Ted, etc.

Again, branding matters whether you like it or not, whether you choose to "build" your brand or totally ignore it and hope for the best. It's a fundamental part of human psychology, and it's not going away.

People can disagree on specific politics, but every time I see people claim Cernovich is just a shilling opportunist, it just reminds me of some beta saying some player "only has a hot gf because he's a douchebag".

The facts of the matter are, Mike went from political nobody to a massively influential figure in the election, and passed up A LOT of money in the process. If you don't want to associate with his more "mainstream" approach, that's fine, but the Alt-Right seems to specialize in pettiness and butt hurt.

By the way, Mike isn't even Jewish. His middle name is even Christian, as far as I know.

I believe Mike stated he was Jewish on a Periscope, then later recanted it to show how easy it is to hoax people. I believe he has stated that he grew up Christian but is an atheist.

 

[Teedub]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Milo's Jewishness is massively overstated by the man himself, he's quarter-Jewish and just uses it to defend himself from the left in regards to accusations of Nazism. He much more identifies as Roman Catholic.

There's not just a schism in the 'alt-right', there's also a schism opening up on the forum it seems from various factions, and this needs to be ironed out if we're going to be a united front. Perhaps Roosh doesn't care if we are a united front, but I think it would be good if we were, but I can't really see a reconciliation if I'm honest...judging by arguments I've had over the past few months. We're definitely in the in-fighting purity-signalling stage that comes with new political movements.

I joined this forum because I wanted to get higher quality girls, and because I agreed with a lot of the politics of fellow travellers, yet I never expected to be discussing the finer points of American Neo-Nazism. I have also read enough books and accounts from real Nazis (Albert Speer's diaries, Rudlof Hoess' testimony) to know that Auschwitz etc was very real, and that a lot of them were happy with it. Yes, perhaps the numbers were exaggerated - but you're still talking horrific numbers of Jews and others such as gentile Polish. However, some of the guys on here simultaneously hate Jews, yet deny that these things occurred - a strange position.

Lastly, Milo has done more to destroy the things you claim to hate than anyone else (apart from Trump himself), yet he still gets hate for being "a narcissist"...he is, but has he done good things or has he not? I feel he has. Significantly. He's made being right-wing cool for young people, which is a damn sight more than someone like Richard Spencer (who I don't hate by the way). There's also a lot of people from the forum who have turned away from it (like Tuthmosis for example, or Speakeasy) that wouldn't, had the forum not been so cool with the neo-nazi shit.

 

[weambulance]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

^

It is an incredibly bold statement to say that there is a significant pro-neonazi element in this forum. Talking about how we white people don't want to be automatically shit on for defending our own group the way every other group does is not the same as being a fucking neonazi.

It is also not "neonazism" to question the way American Jews act.

 

[Teedub]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

^ There are several prominent members who definitely fit that profile. I am European, I know very well what it feels like to be demographically overwhelmed by hostile elements!

 

[Silver_Tube]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

re: united front

I for one don't consider disagreements on this Jew stuff to be a deal breaker with any of you. Advice from the sphere, your books, and your forum posts has been life changing for me. My life was in bad shape when I stumbled upon the red pill and there is no going back now. I hope you feel the same way. I understand the reasoning behind the opposing opinion, it makes perfect sense. I have my concerns about what this might mean for our group in the future but others have expressed them well enough. I see no need to argue about it further. I'm with you either way.

We're a bunch of strong willed high energy men, a little ego clashing is inevitable.

 

[weambulance]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

There are several prominent members who definitely fit that profile.

Really? Because I can think of one or two not-super-prominent people who are a bit more open to the ideas in line with some of the neonazi positions. I haven't yet seen anyone espousing actual hardcore neonazi ideas here.

Of course, I have no doubt a fair few people here think I'm a borderline neonazi. I'm not. So whatever. I think there's quite a bit of variation in what people consider "neonazi" positions. I get my idea of what neonazism is from actually looking up their platform.

I see the lamentation that the forum politics have changed over the years and I simply do not share the regret of that change. Last year I got a big suspension for pointing out anti-white racism and left the forum for almost a year because of it, though I stayed in touch with a lot of guys I met through the forum. If the general personality of the forum was not to my mind more reasonable now, I never would've come back. It is what it is. Groups change. People come and go. Nothing in life is static.

 

[Enigma]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Mike posted his side of the story over at D&P: https://www.dangerandplay.com/anthime-gionet-aka-tim-treadstone-aka-baked-alaska-drama/

 

[weambulance]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Anyway, back to Baked Alaska...

NAZI SIGHTED! I take it all back!

He sucks at math too! String him up! 304 x 45 + 800 = 14480. God damn Nazi math.

 

[Teedub]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

There are several prominent members who definitely fit that profile.

Really? Because I can think of one or two not-super-prominent people who are a bit more open to the ideas in line with some of the neonazi positions. I haven't yet seen anyone espousing actual hardcore neonazi ideas here.

Of course, I have no doubt a fair few people here think I'm a borderline neonazi. I'm not. So whatever. I think there's quite a bit of variation in what people consider "neonazi" positions. I get my idea of what neonazism is from actually looking up their platform.

I see the lamentation that the forum politics have changed over the years and I simply do not share the regret of that change. Last year I got a big suspension for pointing out anti-white racism and left the forum for almost a year because of it, though I stayed in touch with a lot of guys I met through the forum. If the general personality of the forum was not to my mind more reasonable now, I never would've come back. It is what it is. Groups change. People come and go. Nothing in life is static.

Fair enough, I'll agree to disagree. No punching to the right.

 

[weambulance]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Mike posted his side of the story over at D&P: https://www.dangerandplay.com/anthime-gionet-aka-tim-treadstone-aka-baked-alaska-drama/

It's spin.

He left out his own tirade against Baked Alaska in the messages, trying to present himself as the level headed adult talking to the overemotional child. And he presented that "stabbed in the back by a jew" thing as something BA created when it was something he just retweeted, created by @HightechLowlife88 (88 = DOB, or Heil Hitler? Honestly don't know).

There are other issues in this affair too that I can't prove with screenshots so I won't get into them.

I came into this last night with no idea what was going on, FWIW. I've spent most of December writing in a cabin in the woods of Appalachia, 8 miles from a cell signal. I am not on a mission to tear Mike down; I was on his side of the Richard Spencer fight, because I think that was a huge tactical error. He's just not exactly behaving in good faith in this affair, in my opinion.

 

[Roosh]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

There's not just a schism in the 'alt-right', there's also a schism opening up on the forum it seems from various factions, and this needs to be ironed out if we're going to be a united front

Nothing needs to be manually ironed out. I don't care what your views are as long as you follow the rules and fit into the community by not starting trouble. The forum has both hardcore multiculturalists/Marxists and far-right extremists. This is the place where they can co-exist and talk. We now have race threads where no one gets warned/banned, which wasn't the case just a couple years ago.

Don't attack others, don't hijack threads, don't troll, and we'll be fine.

 

[Easy_C]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Personally, I think that's less important. The "new right" is always going to attract some racist socialist hopefuls(the type who mistakenly think that racism is our cause, never mind that small government and a rule of law would preclude any state-sponsored racism).

The best way to handle them is to use the same tactic that feminists use. Decry them as being "not real conservatives". As they say, you can't nail down water and this also has the secondary benefit of marginalizing those types.

Failure to keep the crazies out of the pilot's seat is why the leftist social causes are imploding. Let's not make the same mistake.

 

[Eastside]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

There are two camps here:

1. People like Cernovich, Bill Mitchell, Stefan Molyneau, Alex Jones, Milo, PJW, and even Donald Trump himself would be in this category of people who are focused on building actionable, focused, and fairly inclusive brands around a more right-leaning style of civic nationalism.

2. The other group is a more decentralized collection of alt-right types and soft (or even sometimes pretty serious) ethnonationalists, and would include people like Richard Spencer, Baked Alaska, Jared Wyand, and a large group of anonymous twitter accounts with frog emogis in their titles, as well as an army of /pol/ posters.

I think most people know which group had a bigger impact on the election and will continue to have their brands grow steadily for the foreseeable future. It is the first group of civic-minded nationalists. Even though some of the alt right people have some views that largely overlap with ours, they fail to understand pragmatism, and in their current iteration are not going to move their ideas to a larger audience or help change any policy if they continue to think that they can try and push some of their more sensitive racial ideas (jews, black people, etc.) on the mainstream without having a longer term plan of seeding more palatable (but increasingly more "red-pill") versions of them first. They will get rejected by most normal people at face value and their brand will become marginalized from future effectiveness if they use the methods that they are currently using. It is already happening.

On the other hand, Trump ascended to the Presidency with a smartly branded civic nationalist message, and people like Cernovich, Bill Mitchell, and Paul Joseph Watson have blown up in their followings with similar themes. This brand has proven to be anti-fragile and will continue to grow (if not corrupted), showing the ability to include a larger audience of all types of people (which is needed if you want to create any meaningful political change in the USA). Instead of trying to push the JQ right now, it would be a smarter and more strategic play to consolidate our gains and rally around the more inclusive America first, civic nationalist themes that we all mostly agree on until we can start seeding the next slate of red-pill ideas to the more mainstream audience. Patience is key.

Bill Mitchell is 100% correct. It doesn't do us, Trump, or our country any good for the new-right civic nationalism brand to be overrun with people that get boners over talking about issues that divide us by race and gender at this point. Now is the time to focus on uniting themes.

 

[gonzoman925]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Just keeping updates on occurences brief.

Mike's latest scope he just deleted mentioned that Baked was going to be sued by persons unknown for some reason.

The other news was that Mike had notified the IRS regarding Baked's unemployed status and that Mike paid him $5000 'under the table' (mike's words, not mine), i guess to see if Baked had declared it or not.

In his own words Mike said "he was not petty but vindictive" and felt slighted by Baked/Tim's divulging personal messages via screenshot release. I guess that would have precipitated the release of Baked's alleged real name, as well as notification to the IRS regarding the 5k discretely paid for services rendered, and finally it may or may not have precipitated events to whatever unnamed party mike alleged that is preparing to sue baked.

Secondly his article he released on Baked Alaska is noticeably comment disabled.

Its a weird position we're living in. I really detest the actual factual neo-nazi true believers ^TM aspects of the manosphere (catchall term for everything i'm temporarily using), but i also think freedom of speech should be unlimited.

No one individual can decide who is in an out of a broad messy public movement. (in reference to MAGA/farright/altright/newright/whateverright collective)



I was really hoping that cooler heads would prevail, and I still like them both, but this messy public spat has diminished aspects of each of them a lot in my eyes.

I'm sure they won't mind or care about my opinion but it strikes at a broader point.

Is every public movement ultimately self annihilating?

Is there always going to be larger than life figures that end up turning on each other?

I want to know because i don't have any kind of answer.

 

[nomadbrah]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Interesting to learn that Mike paid this guy 5K a month, that is fair bit of money for online trolling even for a great cause, but also unprofitable, doubt it came from his own pocket.

I seem to recall something about Mike getting funded by a backer in the election?

 

[Enigma]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Secondly his article he released on Baked Alaska is noticeably comment disabled.

The article is comment disabled because it's posted privately and only accessible by the link I just provided. He did an 'ask me anything' scope 5 minutes after he tweeted the article.

 

[komatiite]

RE: Drama in the "new right"

Mike posted his side of the story over at D&P: https://www.dangerandplay.com/anthime-gionet-aka-tim-treadstone-aka-baked-alaska-drama/

Someone in the comments had a point -- Baked Alaska was once Milo's "agent" and was fired. I watched about 5 mins of a periscope that Alaska did where he said he was "active in recovery" and "relapsed" as an Alcoholic within the last year, he must have fucked up to lose his job working for Milo. Guy is just having a bit of a meltdown, he put all of his eggs in one basket hoping to launch a lucrative career on the Trump Train and blew it.

As someone who has attended a fair share of Alcoholic meetings I see this sort of guy all the time. Relapses and blames everyone but themselves.

"I have a new sponsor who is actually going to hold me accountable, my last sponsor was too busy raising his children and his job to be there to babysit me"

Has a mentality that because they are in "Recovery" then they are holier than thou and people need to "understand" that they have a "disease" and they can only be held accountable for their actions when they are sober.

I find that a lot of bad alkies never really grow into the sense of responsibility that a regular person develops -- they often just have the permanent mentality of an 18 year old because that's when they started drinking hard and they put everything else on the back burner and prioritized drinking. Once they sober up then they still have that teenaged attitude that the world "owes" them something.

Not sure if that fits Baked Alaska but that is my experience..., based on what Mike wrote on how they needed to keep non-controversial as they are renting a space for the party, only to have an event organizer post anti Semitic memes which could jeopardize the venue, tells me that BA probably has a lot of growing up to do. I sure did when I quit drinking, and although I have a long way to go, I am thankful that I was able to figure this out in my 20s. If you have that brain chemistry where you are just wired to love getting blackout fucked up (which I bet only 5-10% of people have so this doesn't apply to the vast majority of you guys), then quitting drinking is only the first part -- then you have to figure out how exactly to contribute to society in a meaningful way without the victim mentality.

Edit spelling mistakes