Educate Yourself thread

bucky

Ostrich
Not an argument.
Also.
You are not a biblical authority.
Say it.
;)
Didn’t the apostles appeal to authority to find out what Christ’s words meant? Who do you talk to? Yourself.

Of course I'm not, as you are not. You also see all through a glass, darkly.

I do my best to understand what I see through the Holy Spirit.
 

Endwatcher

Chicken
And HOW does one do this? Perhaps according to the traditions and sacraments we were given or by feeling good and being nice to people?


Again, say the sentence: I am not a biblical authority. Admit you have no authority to interpret the Bible. Admit you are just using the Bible and your own interpretations to fit Christianity how you’d like it to be.

Debating is not my intent actually. Ask your priest what it means if you are concerned about private interpretation and authority.
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
All true men agree that women are desirable but we do not all agree on which ones. Take me for example, I like storks, tall, thin women with milk white skin, raven black hair and blue or green eyes. Should I be damned to the fires of hell for all eternity just because I am not on board with Captain Ahab and his crew who prefer fat blondes? Not being a whaling man myself I am completely inadequate to judge them for their persuit of the golden locked leviathan as are they for my preference of storks. But we can agree that women are desirable, we just like different flavors.

"John said to him, Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us. But Jesus said, Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. For the one who is not against us is for us. Mark 9:38-40

The scripture you quoted is exactly the reason why I said to leave you be. The comment about "different flavors" I cannot leave alone. For it implies that truth doesn't matter, and if truth doesn't matter, then Christ was just dying for some fanciful ideal that has no bearing on us, and Christianity is just a different form of Judaism.

The WCC has various groups of Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant. To think that you can have unity the 3 is to confuse light and darkness. I'm not saying that any of them are right. They're all wrong, since they're engaging in Ecumenism. Ecumenism is a heresy for to engage in it requires you to say that doctrine is only a personal choice, and to have faith you must believe what you're doing is true. It only leads to having a lukewarm spirit. So we're on the same page, heresy is any belief that is inconsistent, or divided against itself. This is why I said in my first response to LockedRoom

The truth is not found by joining a club, and if you're clubbing people with what you think is true, you're going about it in the wrong way.

But it went right over his head. For his argument rests on that truth is to be found by belonging to an institution, if that's true, then it leads to the conclusion that the only truth in this world is worldly power. If that's true, we're back to Christ being a lunatic. Jesus Christ can only be a sensible person if there is a universal human nature. Which is what the word "catholic" refers to in the Nicene creed. I might just be spitballing here, but now that I think of it, adding the word "Roman" to "Catholic" might be used in the same way the word "social" is added to "justice".
 

bucky

Ostrich
The scripture you quoted is exactly the reason why I said to leave you be. The comment about "different flavors" I cannot leave alone. For it implies that truth doesn't matter, and if truth doesn't matter, then Christ was just dying for some fanciful ideal that has no bearing on us, and Christianity is just a different form of Judaism.

The WCC has various groups of Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant. To think that you can have unity the 3 is to confuse light and darkness. I'm not saying that any of them are right. They're all wrong,

It seems to me that they all have a lot of truth, and a lot of man-made innovation. The newbie troll mocked me for having no authority to turn to, then demanded that I immediately sign up with either the Catholics or the Orthodox, who disagree fundamentally about the nature of the supposed authority which would decide spiritual matters for me. Makes me chuckle, but it's also frustrating. Less than 10 years ago I'd fallen away from Christianity and become agnostic and my life was going badly. Then I met my devout Catholic wife and started going to church with her. I'm not prepared to become Catholic or go back to the faith I grew up in, or become Orthodox, although I see a lot of good in all of those. Maybe some day I will be, but for now I have Christ back in my life and things are going very well. I think it's good enough for now, as long as I continue to strive for truth.

About authority to interpret the truth, I remembered this scripture:

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

James 1:5

Maybe it's true that I need the Pope to interpret the scriptures for me, or maybe I need whatever the Orthodox have to offer, but I feel it's better to depend on prayer and the Holy Spirit. I don't claim to know for sure. At the point I'm at now, I suspect that the right church for you is largely based on your ethnicity. RCC for Latinos, Irish, Italians, Poles, etc., Orthodox for the various churches set up specifically for those ethnicities, Protestant, Mormom, or JW for heritage Americans, and so on. How can they all be true at the same time? Who knows. I'm seeing through a glass darkly, and likely wrong, but it makes sense to me for now.
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
It seems to me that they all have a lot of truth, and a lot of man-made innovation. The newbie troll mocked me for having no authority to turn to, then demanded that I immediately sign up with either the Catholics or the Orthodox, who disagree fundamentally about the nature of the supposed authority which would decide spiritual matters for me. Makes me chuckle, but it's also frustrating. Less than 10 years ago I'd fallen away from Christianity and become agnostic and my life was going badly. Then I met my devout Catholic wife and started going to church with her. I'm not prepared to become Catholic or go back to the faith I grew up in, or become Orthodox, although I see a lot of good in all of those. Maybe some day I will be, but for now I have Christ back in my life and things are going very well. I think it's good enough for now, as long as I continue to strive for truth.

About authority to interpret the truth, I remembered this scripture:

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

James 1:5

Maybe it's true that I need the Pope to interpret the scriptures for me, or maybe I need whatever the Orthodox have to offer, but I feel it's better to depend on prayer and the Holy Spirit. I don't claim to know for sure. At the point I'm at now, I suspect that the right church for you is largely based on your ethnicity. RCC for Latinos, Irish, Italians, Poles, etc., Orthodox for the various churches set up specifically for those ethnicities, Protestant, Mormom, or JW for heritage Americans, and so on. How can they all be true at the same time? Who knows. I'm seeing through a glass darkly, and likely wrong, but it makes sense to me for now.

The problem is one of language, it's hard to get a concrete idea of what people actually say because words are incredibly dull instruments, it's also why the "Law" was insufficient. Truth with a capital T requires highly technical language with strict definitions, something beyond the scope of this forum, and beyond the capabilities of blue collar laymen like myself.

You're humble enough to admit that you don't have all the answers, you're praying, and you're trying to move towards the truth, and that's a good starting point. If you're regularly reading the scriptures, even better. My advice to all Christians is read C.S. Lewis.

As for that passage, as you're probably already aware, wisdom and truth are not the same things. Truth depicts how reality is, wisdom is knowing how best to navigate in the world, and as for "let him ask of God" it refers to those who are actually asking and seeking, Those who read the bible for an 10-15 minutes here and there, and pray 5 minutes before bed or while they're lying down, but spend the majority of time on worldly pursuits and pleasures aren't really asking. It's like in the gym, you can tell over time, who actually seeks and asks to become stronger, and those who are into "being fit and healthy" but make sure they never miss pizza day at Planet Fitness.

or as James continues to say (1 James 12-15) "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. "

It's all there, as long as you try to clean your body and soul from the sinful stains which keep that glass dark.
 

ICXC

Sparrow
I think it's good enough for now, as long as I continue to strive for truth.

And what is truth? You need the sacraments specifically it sounds like to me, just thinking you should believe something doesn't mean anything or make it true.
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John 6:53 53Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
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Unless you eat His flesh you have no life. So, it's like being the walking dead, you aren't really alive basically unless you have the Eucharist, at the end of the day that's priority number one, nothing else matters, literally.
 
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And what is truth? You need the sacraments specifically it sounds like to me., just thinking you should believe something doesn't mean anything or make it true.
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John 6:53 53Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
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Unless you eat His flesh you have no life. So, it's like being the walking dead, you aren't really alive basically unless you have the Eucharist, at the end of the day that's priority number one, nothing else matters, literally.

but but but truth is open to personal Interpretation! Truth isn’t independent of my mind! when I read the Bible no matter what I believe it’s always right - after all I have the Holy Spirit! Isn’t that convenient! I don’t need any of the churches founded by the apostles. I’m ME! I’m amazing! I’ll tell YOU what’s right and wrong and at the end of the day I’ll call MYSELF humble too!
 

bucky

Ostrich
And what is truth? You need the sacraments specifically it sounds like to me, just thinking you should believe something doesn't mean anything or make it true.
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John 6:53 53Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
---
Unless you eat His flesh you have no life. So, it's like being the walking dead, you aren't really alive basically unless you have the Eucharist, at the end of the day that's priority number one, nothing else matters, literally.

I really don't think this is the place to get into all the problems I see in the Catholic church. Who knows though, maybe I'll get past them and convert someday. Stranger things have happened.
 

ICXC

Sparrow
I really don't think this is the place to get into all the problems I see in the Catholic church.


Actually it is the place. Again I would say you're missing the bigger picture though. People without the Church feel like they have to figure everything out for themselves, if this was what Jesus wanted no one would make it to Heaven, literally no one. You either believe what He says is true, or you don't, I mean, it's pretty black and white in that regards.
 

bucky

Ostrich
Actually it is the place. Again I would say you're missing the bigger picture though. People without the Church feel like they have to figure everything out for themselves, if this was what Jesus wanted no one would make it to Heaven, literally no one. You either believe what He says is true, or you don't, I mean, it's pretty black and white in that regards.

That's great that you believe that. I don't, and neither do most people, including many good followers of Christ. So far a few years of attending mass with my Catholic wife has done little to convince me, but who knows what the future holds. It wasn't so long ago that I wasn't sure I even believed in God.
 

ICXC

Sparrow
Right, well everyman has to figure 'it out' at some point and what he actually believes so better late than never. I would say those 'Christians' are not Christian's but are like 50% Christian, basically they are kind of crossing a frozen river in the winter and hoping to get to the other side without it cracking and they fall through and die, whereas the Church is just like, "Hey, there's a bridge over here, you wanna cross or what?"

Just reading the Bible and thinking now I'm 'saved' does not compute. Great that I believe what? Dude, I don't just believe it, it's reality. It's like you telling me, "Hey man I think that its great you believe eating food keeps you alive, thats great you believe that, but not me, I only live off of supplements and water, thats it, I don't eat anything but supplements, but hey man it's great you believe what you do." - You are living off of only supplements and when you die, you become nothing, talk about the most depressing reality you can choose ...

Voltaire: "if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him?" - even if there was no creator we would need one to cope with reality, otherwise nothing matters. So you sound like you're on the right track, but you also sound super dismissive ..."Oh its great you believe that" - as if it's just some random ideology, nah man, it's actuality, it's truth, it's life in and of itself, your dead without the sacrements man, literally the walking dead.
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"Then He said to another man, “Follow Me.” The man replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” 60But Jesus told him, “Let the dead bury their own dead. You, however, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” 61Still another said, “I will follow You, Lord; but first let me bid farewell to my family.”…
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You have no life in you if you do not have the sacrament of the Eucharist, you are a zombie and the walking dead, a corpse, an 'npc' - a non-player character - you're already dead essentially, harsh words from The Lord, but upon further investigation highlights His message 1,000 fold.
 

bucky

Ostrich
Right, well everyman has to figure 'it out' at some point and what he actually believes so better late than never. I would say those 'Christians' are not Christian's but are like 50% Christian, basically they are kind of crossing a frozen river in the winter and hoping to get to the other side without it cracking and they fall through and die, whereas the Church is just like, "Hey, there's a bridge over here, you wanna cross or what?"

Just reading the Bible and thinking now I'm 'saved' does not compute. Great that I believe what? Dude, I don't just believe it, it's reality. It's like you telling me, "Hey man I think that its great you believe eating food keeps you alive, thats great you believe that, but not me, I only live off of supplements and water, thats it, I don't eat anything but supplements, but hey man it's great you believe what you do." - You are living off of only supplements and when you die, you become nothing, talk about the most depressing reality you can choose ...

Voltaire: "if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him?" - even if there was no creator we would need one to cope with reality, otherwise nothing matters. So you sound like you're on the right track, but you also sound super dismissive ..."Oh its great you believe that" - as if it's just some random ideology, nah man, it's actuality, it's truth, it's life in and of itself, your dead without the sacrements man, literally the walking dead.
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"Then He said to another man, “Follow Me.” The man replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” 60But Jesus told him, “Let the dead bury their own dead. You, however, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” 61Still another said, “I will follow You, Lord; but first let me bid farewell to my family.”…
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You have no life in you if you do not have the sacrament of the Eucharist, you are a zombie and the walking dead, a corpse, an 'npc' - a non-player character - you're already dead essentially, harsh words from The Lord, but upon further investigation highlights His message 1,000 fold.

Well, there we have it. Roman Catholic Church proven true because this guy says so, I guess. End of discussion. Thanks.
 

ICXC

Sparrow
Well, there we have it. Roman Catholic Church proven true because this guy says so, I guess. End of discussion. Thanks.

Because 'I say so' is not an argument, and isn't one that I've made, but it's pretty clear nothing I say will convince you otherwise. I mean I've laid out some pretty decent logic in my opinion (and or explanations for what the Lord is saying), maybe not the most coherent or up to your 'standards' (whatever that may be) but yeah what do you want to know? Do you wanna go to Heaven or hell? Kind of a simple question right? It has nothing to do with what I'm saying and everything to do with what Christ said, you either agree with Him or you don't, I'm simply explaining it to you because you don't seem grasp the fact that you are nothing without the Eucharist, not my words, but The Lord's, so again man, it's pretty black and white what He's saying in my opinion.

Oh, and your welcome.
 
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bucky

Ostrich
Because 'I say so' is not an argunment, and isn't one that I've made, but it's pretty clear nothing I say will convince you otherwise. I mean I've laid out some pretty decent logic in my opinion (and or explanations for what the Lord is saying), maybe not the most coherent or up to your 'standards' (whatever that may be) but yeah what do you want to know? Do you wanna go to Heaven or hell? Kind of a simple question right? It has nothing to do with what I'm saying and everything to do with what Christ said, you either agree with Him or you don't, I'm simply explaining it to you because you don't seem grasp the fact that you are nothing without the Eucharist, not my words, but The Lord's, so again man, it's pretty black and white what He's saying in my opinion.

Oh, and your welcome.

It's great that praying to a human woman and believing you literally eat God at your church meetings is working for you, but these things and many, many others are a bit of a barrier for me as far as accepting your particular church at this time, particularly with its current globohomo leader and pretty clear intent to destroy my once great country through mass third world immigration. Then again, there is a lot of good there too. Who knows. Maybe I'll convert some day. Pray for me. Or threaten me and my fellow zombies with hellfire. Whichever seems best to you.
 

ICXC

Sparrow
Well there's nothing wrong with some godly fear in thinking you might bein hell forever right? Seriously, it makes you recognize the inner sin which dwells there. If the faith isn't real than hell is imaginary and so is Heaven, but sounds like you believe in God so like I said you're on the right path man. It has more to do with what you know to be true rather than anything I can explain to you. I could spend hours here explain church teaching to you but if you don't want to be redeemed than my words will be empty to you. You aren't a 'special' case ok, realize that EVERYONE who isn't Catholic or even Christian for that matter thinks (via logic) that THEIR logic will help them understand 'everything' or even help them enter the church. It has nothing to do with you or your logic, and everything to do with the Logos Himself, Christ Himself and Him being logic. I would pick up a CCC - The Catechism of The Catholic Church if you want the explanations, normally just having 'reasons' to your answers won't make a difference because that's not actually what someone is looking for rationally you'll say, "No, I definitely need some explanations" - while that could be the case 9x out of 10 that's not the real reason at all that you avoid embracing the Church.

The church is anti-pride ok, the Catholic Church is where the rubber meets the road, it's the only place where you have to actually submit and realize your place in the universe is not some 'all-knowing' being. Because of human sin and us being flawed creatures you (along with everyone else) acts like they know it all, they will do everything they can (because of sin) to avoid entering the church unless they truly humble themselves. SSPX, Orthadox, literally EVERY other denomination exists for this reason, because they couldn't humble themselves they thought they knew everything, had all the answers. "Oh I want to have religion but ANYTHING but the Catholic Church, oh I'll go be Orthodox instead" - they do literally everything to fight against the Church, it is literally the only religion which it becomes so obvious the person is in sin or isn't because it depends if you actually accept the fact that you don't know anything, nothing at all, and that some Pope who don't expect or who seems out of place is somehow for some reason put in charge of the church and you just have to go with it.

I don't know the Pope, I don't know you, I don't know everything, I'm not a theologian, while I like philosophy and don't mind calling it how I see it I'm more than willing to say, "Hey I don't know, maybe" - if it sounds like truth. But I don't believe one person can know everything nor that they should. Believing in the Immaculate Conception has plenty and plenty of theology behind it ok, so does eatting the flesh of the Lord, so does the Pope's authority.

I suspect you probably want a materialists explanation assuming you were an agnostic prior right? Long story made incredibly short you are a sinful creature...humans were made to be immortal and never die...in the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve were made to be immortal...they sinned, they pass on that sin of death, so thus we die and are no longer immortal creatures. Christ 'saved' us.

The I'm saved fallacy...

Non-denominational Christians love to say,"I'm saved, I'm saved!" - without any concept as to what that even means. To be saved is that now we are immortal like Christ because He died and rose from the dead. I mean how much theology you do you want man? The Logos is the essence of existence itself, Christ is the Logos...so you had a perfectly immortal divine person be born, then die and pass on His immortality to us. We are 'saved' because we eat His flesh. The main point which is unfortunately overlooked and missed by 99% of nondenominal 'Christians' is that the literal flesh must be eaten to be literally saved. It's not just a 'thought' or 'act of faith'. The reason the flesh is eaten is because He is considered the 'new Adam'; i.e. Christ is who Adam was/should've been in The Garden of Eden, He is immortal and thus laying down His life we gain the attributes which the Lord had after His resurrection.

I mean it's a tough pill to swallow maybe if you've never heard of any of this before, but look into Stoicism and the Logos and how the Stoics understood the Logos. They believed life itself was God and they were pantheists, while God is actually outside of existence, while also being tied to it, so He is not 'just nature' as the Stoics believed. The point here is look into the 'stoic sage' - the concept was a man who could hypothetically they believe embody perfect virtue. Why does this matter? Because Jesus is the sage, what the stoics believed to be the perfection of virtue. He is one in the same with nature essentially ok. Why are we the walking dead without His flesh, because reality is not static, it is transitory; i.e. causality etc. Life flows from point A to B to C to do etc. Again, Adam and Eve were made immortal, in essence they did not 'age', their existence was not casual and was static in design. They ate of the tree, untied themselves from God and thus became aware of death and thus the aging process. Point here is in order to not die and or live forever (which is the ultimate goal of existence, the jackpot of existence is to live forever, it is what everything in nature strives for, all of life is in a constant death because of the transitory design, everything thus must force existence).

So the ultimate life question remains, do you want to live forever or just die? Your given the choice, life or death are always before you. Christ is God and so if you wish to live you eat of the eternal life. His death on the cross was for us because He needed to counteract all sin (the physical death) in order to offset our deaths. So, when you die with Him inside you, you still literally die (your body dies, but the souls form if tied to God but are with Him because you are tied to Him, the essence of existence.) You get your body back of course, it's a pretty good deal if you think about it, again, just use a little logic. Humble yourself a little bit and realize submitting to The Catholic Church and the Ten Commandments frees you from sin and is a pretty incredible 'deal' which if you look at the alternative it's a no brainer, the alternative is what? By the way, it's not a 'deal', it's a free gift, you cannot merit Heaven. Just the fact that your wife is Catholic points to God desiring you eternal life, that's already way way more than the average John Doe in China or India has sadly. Your 'own reality' and eternal death is the alternative, so wow, its a no brainer. It's as if you think you, some random man in time, could understand all of reality on his own, the arrogance alone points to proof of sin. Anyways that's just food for thought, everyone has different questions about life and what they think is this or what is that...at the end of the day do you want to live forever (Heaven) or die and no longer exist (hell)...? I mean it's the age old question and I have no problem reinforcing the notion that you aren't anything without the Eucharist. Why? Because again, life is transitory and in constant flux and change and only something static can claim divinity, that static 'thing' is God, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob... Jesus Christ.

Malachi 3:6 6"I the LORD do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.

Why the God of the Old Testament? Because He's the same now, today, and forever. He's what Plato call's the greatest good. If you use logic and reason you will come to the same conclusion, He is Who He is, He is perfect being. Only The God of The Old Testament can make this claim (that is is eternal static being and truth and ALL reality comes from Him), there are no other 'gods' who can make such a claim - i.e. no other 'gods' are static, they change, they are like the air of air, nothings nothingness, they are figments of imagination and unreal - ONLY the God of The Old Testament is unchanging perfection which made ALL of life. Again, do you wish to live? Or die? The choice is yours but we all know you want to live, so don't hesitate. You could die in a car crash tomorrow, and your soul goes to eternal hell, you become nothing. Who wants that? Literally no one wants that, but they think they 'know it all', so they make schism, they complain, they try to justify themselves and make arguments and try to understand 'everything'. Forget all of that, you know what you need to do, just do it already, or do you just want to be counted among the dead men walking? Eternal life is one gift we can thank God for, but realize it's literally done out of love for His creation and for you, love is hard, it's not easy, but it's beautiful when done correctly. Anyways, thats way more than I was going to respond with but you get the idea.
 
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A. Eastern Orthodox here.

B. I thought this was a deep conspiracy thread... Seems like we had some religious spillover.

Gentlemen, we have enough enemies. We must unite. We have differences, true, but we have more similarities. What do you do when your church's leadership acts not in accordance with the words of God? What do you do when church leaders promote and favor a King, a War, Communism over God? When the Pope ordains women? When your church adopts homosexuality? What do you do? You break off...As many denominations have done and will continue to do. No church is incorruptible by the forces of evil, as they are run by mortals.

 

ICXC

Sparrow
Gentlemen, we have enough enemies. We must unite. We have differences, true, but we have more similarities. What do you do when your church's leadership acts not in accordance with the words of God? What do you do when church leaders promote and favor a King, a War, Communism over God? When the Pope ordains women? When your church adopts homosexuality? What do you do? You break off...As many denominations have done and will continue to do. No church is incorruptible by the forces of evil, as they are run by mortals.

I agree more in common than different with Orthodox. There's an answer for all of those questions, most of them can be found in the writings of Pope John Paul II. In 1994, Pope John Paul II declared, “The Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.” - So it's not like it's going to happen ok, I mean you can twist and distort teaching all day long, but even in worse case scenarios I would see it as a 'defect' of the 'priest' personally. The fact remains though that even if somehow, some way women were made priest I would simply go to a different church with a male, like problem solved. Obviously it's not what I want and I would consider it heretical most likely, but I'm one man, what would you have me do? Just deny the faith, "Oh, I'll go be Orthodox now" - when there's another Catholic Church right down the road with a male priest? Again, the odds that happens are insane low, but I'll just go to different Church if it does and all is well. You're tryin too hard to solve every global issue here man.

I mean all your questions are on social politics which are defined by media and news and ultimately not about your personal salvation right? So, like do I want homo's to give the Eucharist, no of course not, but it hasn't happened but if they allow it am I going anywhere? No, not because they suddenly start allowing it but because I know the Eucharist is life itself. Is the Eucharist invalid?

You have to consider that one man's flaw is not held against the faithful - if a priest is in a state of sin while saying a mass, the mass is not invalid, the common theological consensus for this is that the 'church' makes up for the defect of the priest, as far as I know it to be. The faithful aren't at fault. If a priest is openly gay thats a different story and I'm pretty sure then the mass would be invalid, but again, I wouldn't go to that church, I'll go to a different one. Great thing about the Catholic Church is they are everywhere. If I dislike a priest (which for me has been rare thankfully, actually I can't even really think of one off the top of my head) I'll just go to a different church down the street, problem solved.

"What do you do when church leaders promote and favor a King, a War, Communism over God? " - meh, above my pay grade. Like seriously. It's above my pay grade man. The Church in it's 2,000+ year history has had basically every problem you can think of and people always think they are living in the end times. Heck maybe we are, who knows. Again it's like worrying over things which you have no control. I have answers for all your questions ok, but the fact of the matter is I know the truth and some other peoples flaws won't take me from that. I can sit here all day long and answer your questions but the fact remains that you either come to a clear understanding of what reality is and who God is and what He actually wants or you continually ask questions in order to justify yourself to try to prove yourself correct and make yourself the 'measure of all things'.
 
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Psalm27

Woodpecker
Gold Member
And what is truth? You need the sacraments specifically it sounds like to me, just thinking you should believe something doesn't mean anything or make it true.
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John 6:53 53Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
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Unless you eat His flesh you have no life. So, it's like being the walking dead, you aren't really alive basically unless you have the Eucharist, at the end of the day that's priority number one, nothing else matters, literally.
He is talking spiritually here. The flesh and blood of Jesus Christ is the Word of God, the Bible, the scriptures. Also you are not actually eating God's physical flesh and drinking His physical blood when consuming the Eucharist, it is a symbolic ritual in rememberance of Christ and what He did.

That is part of the pagan influences in the Catholic/Orthodox church. Pagans always need visible symbols (idols, statues etc) and need to do physical things. They don't have as much faith in that which is unseen.

John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

And yes I do communion almost every sunday. We eat unlevened bread and drink wine in rememberance of Christ, and yes I would say it does boost my faith to do so. Nothing wrong with it at all but I do not think I am literally consuming the physical flesh and blood of Christ.
 
Must've been pretty scary during lockdowns, you know, churches closed, no sacraments to keep the flames of hell from licking at your feet and your body stiffening up into zombie mode. What happens when they lock us down again, or how about just closing churches altogether? When priests abandon their flocks because the government told them to. What will you do? You can't turn to your Bible beause you are too feeble minded to ask for understanding, it is just a bunch of bronze age tales of cattle stealing and whoremongering and slaughtering of whole nations, rules and begats and measurements. What did Jesus say, Oh I don't know, we have to ask the priest, but he is not seeing us today or tomorrow either. The magic box where the crackers are turned into the flesh of Christ is locked, the magic wine that is blessed into blood is denied us. Where do we turn? What about God, he won't be seeing you today, you have to take the sacraments to gain an audience with him, no, there is no other way, your just out of luck buddy, hope you like warm weather. What about those folks over there in that house? They seem to be doing okay, they are gathering together and studying that book, you know, the one our priests have told us is bad, the one we cannot understand with our feeble human minds, the minds that God in his wisdom has given us. They do not seem distressed, even happy. Do not look over there, they are demons mocking our sorrows, stay away from them or you will surely be drawn in and forfeit your soul to his satanic majesty, you know, the god of this world who goes about and decieves all of mankind, the one who tells you that God does not love you unless you eat some crackers an drink some wine that are blessed by some man wearing a dress. Let us move on.

I keep trying to point out that we are all Christians and should not be fighting amongst ourselves but it is to no avail, some people are stuck in some la la land where they believe that only they hold the truth and all others are false Christians. I do not hold such beliefs even though I was raised to believe so, especially against Catholics, the Whore of Babylon, the scarlet harlot and so on. God gave us a brain and a mind and the ability to discern right from wrong. You say you have answers, so do others, it can go back and forth til the second coming and will never be resolved by men, but yet, instead of recognizing this we will fight, fight while our world is destroyed around us, while our right to worship is eroded by the world, fight until our last breath believing our fellow Christians are really satanists in disguise. So be it, good luck, what did Pilate do? Oh yeah, he washed his hands of it.
 
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