Educate Yourself thread

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Whatever you like, mate, but the moment you start attempting to "educate" other people then the balance of credibility becomes pretty stark.

Catholic/Orthodox Church: Hundreds and hundreds of years of hard won and carefully curated understanding of God's will through countless trials and tribulations spanning dozens of generations of priests and monks.

You: Some middle-aged guy that fell into an infantile protestant branch, read the Bible, fell out of that branch and watched a bunch of Youtube videos.

27566203.gif


It's like a choice between an apprenticeship learning to cook at a Michelin rated Chef Academy or instead listening to the guy who got a job at Greasy Joes then quit because he didn't like how Greasy Joe cooked the eggs.
 

bucky

Ostrich
Well it's either the Catholics or the EO, and frankly they're not far enough apart that I particularly care.

All other denominations are in error to the extent by which they differ from those two branches, and in some cases that error is severe enough that it leads directly to hell.

To assume the alternative is pretty silly.

"Everyone was getting it wrong until protestant leader #3759 arrived on the scene."

I get that you feel more comfortable with the Catholics or Orthodox, and that's fine, but their positions are mutually exclusive, no less so than they are with the Protestants. Pope or no Pope. Both can't be true, and it's a huge gap, in spite of your emotions telling you they're closer than they really are.

I suspect that all denominations are in error to some extent and that your proper denomination largely comes down to your ethnicity, as is explicit with the Orthodox and their Greek, Russian, Armenian, etc. churches. How can all these churches, Orthodox, Protestant, and the RCC be "true enough" for salvation at the same time, while logically contradicting each other? I don't know, but I suspect it's something beyond human understanding, like the science behind angels and miracles, or the physical location of Heaven and Hell.
 

iop890

Crow
Gold Member
Sure, the Vatican hall looks different from different angles. But it also looks like a snake head ...
View attachment 23644


Don't be intentionally dense. The picture you posted isn't a "different angle", it's a digitally distorted image that makes two parallel walls appear to be almost perpendicular.

It's not possible to stand inside that building and see the spooky scary snek with the human eye, it requires camera tricks.
 
@Psalm27

Paul an apostle—sent neither by human commission nor from human authorities, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father... (Gal 1:1)

For I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel that was proclaimed by me is not of human origin; for I did not receive it from a human source, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal 1:11-12)

But when God, who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, so that I might proclaim him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with any human being, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were already apostles before me, but I went away at once into Arabia, and afterwards I returned to Damascus...Then after three years I did go up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas [Peter] and stayed with him fifteen days; but I did not see any other apostle except James the Lord’s brother. (Gal 1:15-19)

Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. I went up in response to a revelation. Then I laid before them (though only in a private meeting with the acknowledged leaders) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles...But because of false believers secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might enslave us— we did not submit to them even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might always remain with you. And from those who were supposed to be acknowledged leaders (what they actually were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)those leaders contributed nothing to me. On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me in sending me to the Gentiles), and when James and Cephas and John, who were acknowledged pillars, recognized the grace that had been given to me, they gave to Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship... (Gal 2:1-2,4-9)
 

bucky

Ostrich
Don't be intentionally dense. The picture you posted isn't a "different angle", it's a digitally distorted image that makes two parallel walls appear to be almost perpendicular.

It's not possible to stand inside that building and see the spooky scary snek with the human eye, it requires camera tricks.

You don't need to go out of your way to imagine snakes or swastikas or whatever other scary image you want in the shape of the Vatican to see all kinds of problems in the Catholic church today or in its history, that's all there in plain site and very well documented. That said, look at the fruits. Many devout Catholics are righteous, Christlike people and their church inspires them to be so. As Leonard will rightly point out to Catholic bashers, if you turn the same microscope on whatever other denomination you want, that denomination will also come out not looking so great. Maybe one of these highly flawed churches is the "One True Church" or maybe not. I suspect not, but I'm just an idiot on the Internet. Regardless, no church is without its flaws and sins. Look at the fruits. If a church inspires people to be good and Christlike, I would say it is of God.
 

myrica

Pigeon
i fail to understand the purpose of discussion religion. If you read history, you should automatically know the purpose of it.
It was born out of need to explain natural phenomenon(thunders, etc). Since early humans didnt know the cause of it, they invented *sun god* or whatever else god out of natural phenomenon which they couldnt explain.
As we got out of caves and starts making civilisation, *smart* people used religion for thousands of years to control the population through *invisible god which will punish you in the afterlife*. Since humans scare of what they cant see/understand,it worked well. Thats why priest caste was always 1 layer below noblemen/kings. Kings used them well to control the population, in return, priest caste lived well beyond their means. Even as of now, religious caste dont pay taxes in the US and they are rich(also same in turkey, they got massive following).

Religion is just one of the means(a major one) to keep people compliant. Thats it.
 

Psalm27

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Whatever you like, mate, but the moment you start attempting to "educate" other people then the balance of credibility becomes pretty stark.
It's not me who is doing the educating but those in the videos that I posted.

Catholic/Orthodox Church: Hundreds and hundreds of years of hard won and carefully curated understanding of God's will through countless trials and tribulations spanning dozens of generations of priests and monks.
Yet somehow they could not figure out the simplest of scriptures ...

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Call no man father upon the earth? Proceed to call every priest father.

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
Long hair on a man is a shame unto him? Proceed to depict Jesus Christ, the Son of God with long hair in every picture.

Luke 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
Beware of scribes in long robes? Proceed to have your clergy wear long robes.

You: Some middle-aged guy that fell into an infantile protestant branch, read the Bible, fell out of that branch and watched a bunch of Youtube videos.
I am not teaching you anything I am just pointing people to resources that I have found valuable and edifying. I did not make all the videos which I have posted in this thread. So I suggest you calm down and stop making false accusations.

Also baptists are not protestant.

66NGqdn.jpg



Also I am 33, not 43.
 
Last edited:

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
I get that you feel more comfortable with the Catholics or Orthodox, and that's fine, but their positions are mutually exclusive, no less so than they are with the Protestants. Pope or no Pope. Both can't be true, and it's a huge gap, in spite of your emotions telling you they're closer than they really are.

I suspect that all denominations are in error to some extent and that your proper denomination largely comes down to your ethnicity, as is explicit with the Orthodox and their Greek, Russian, Armenian, etc. churches. How can all these churches, Orthodox, Protestant, and the RCC be "true enough" for salvation at the same time, while logically contradicting each other? I don't know, but I suspect it's something beyond human understanding, like the science behind angels and miracles, or the physical location of Heaven and Hell.

You're putting emphasis on the wrong end of the split.

If you wanted to learn how to swordfight you could go to one of several elite and ancient schools that have drawn from hundreds of years of refinement in their craft, and despite doing your best to be the greatest swordsman of all time your success or failure would be largely due to your own commitment rather than whether school A was in fact .01% superior to school B. It would be so difficult to reach the zenith that the differences in the schools would hardly matter anyway.

And yet, if you went to Bob's Discount Swordsmanship School then you are destined to fail no matter how hard you train in Bobjutsu.
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
It's not me who is doing the educating but those in the videos that I posted.
...
I am not teaching you anything I am just pointing people to resources that I have found valuable and edifying. I did not make all the videos which I have posted in this thread. So I suggest you calm down and stop making false accusations.

This line of evasion is complete fallacy. It's like a someone saying "read chapter one of this textbook" and then claiming "I'm not a teacher, I'm just giving people textbooks".

You're not picking these videos at random. You clearly have a personal bias. By curating a list of videos and asking people to watch them you are by definition attempting to teach, even if it's through the words of others.

I am saying straight up that you are not remotely qualified to pick out material that others should be swayed by and that in fact you are more likely than not to lead them down a path of heresy. But perhaps I can just say "that's not an accusation, it's just an opinion".

Christianity being treated like some sort of bong-session brainstorm is an insult to the centuries long lineages of holy men that came before you. By what measure are you qualified to tell people to pollute their minds with this Youtube garbage or that Youtube garbage?

For anyone else reading this, let me give you some advice which in any other endeavor in life would seem like plain old common sense.

Don't approach Christianity, one of the most important things you will ever grapple with, by way of your own feelings while chasing Youtube garbage down endless rabbit holes, many of which are designed deliberately to appeal to your weaknesses and lure you into sin.

Do what any smart man would do when he wants to learn something important. Find a professional from a long line of professionals and learn from a professional.
 

Sitting Bull

Woodpecker
Yet somehow they could not figure out the simplest of scriptures ... Matthew 23:9
Call no man father upon the earth? Proceed to call every priest father.

This is a perfect illustration of what Leonard has been telling you.
This is the most stupidly literalist interpretation of a verse I have ever seen.
Somehow you could not figure how about everybody (not just Christians from this or that denomination) use the word "father" to designate human fathers ... so nobody understands Matthew 23:9 but you, eh ?
By the way, how do you designate a human father then ?
 

bucky

Ostrich
Give a thousand autists a Bible each and you will get 1000 different denominations.

What Catholic/Orthodox priests deal with constantly:

54ad69a10f4ee9b592aab3f5901a569e--funny-memes-funny-pics.jpg

To be fair though, if your doctor proposes bloodletting or your lawyer wants to settle your case with a trial by fire, you don't need a medical or law degree to recognize that something's not right.
 

Psalm27

Woodpecker
Gold Member
This line of evasion is complete fallacy. It's like a someone saying "read chapter one of this textbook" and then claiming "I'm not a teacher, I'm just giving people textbooks".

You're not picking these videos at random. You clearly have a personal bias. By curating a list of videos and asking people to watch them you are by definition attempting to teach, even if it's through the words of others.
Please criticize my source material rather than appealing to authority. Then perhaps we can all learn something new. I am open to being wrong about some things, but you are only appealing to authority, and by this I learn nothing.

I am saying straight up that you are not remotely qualified to pick out material that others should be swayed by and that in fact you are more likely than not to lead them down a path of heresy. But perhaps I can just say "that's not an accusation, it's just an opinion".
So unless I am a Catholic I should shut up, is that it? Who are you to teach me, then?

Christianity being treated like some sort of bong-session brainstorm is an insult to the centuries long lineages of holy men that came before you. By what measure are you qualified to tell people to pollute their minds with this Youtube garbage or that Youtube garbage?
Then nobody here is """qualified""" to teach anyone anything and this whole forum is pointless. Who are you to tell me to go look up some Catholic priests writings? Are you an educated minister? Do you have a PhD in theology? Are you a monk with years of experience and knowledge?

This is tiresome.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
 

bucky

Ostrich
You're putting emphasis on the wrong end of the split.

If you wanted to learn how to swordfight you could go to one of several elite and ancient schools that have drawn from hundreds of years of refinement in their craft, and despite doing your best to be the greatest swordsman of all time your success or failure would be largely due to your own commitment rather than whether school A was in fact .01% superior to school B. It would be so difficult to reach the zenith that the differences in the schools would hardly matter anyway.

And yet, if you went to Bob's Discount Swordsmanship School then you are destined to fail no matter how hard you train in Bobjutsu.

Come on, man. "Pope or no Pope" is far more than a 0.01% percent difference. I've never met a Catholic to whom the Pope is less than hugely important in the decade or so I've been in a Catholic marriage. After all, they see him as the literal successor to St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ, and the ultimate holder of the keys to the priesthood. All very nontrivial stuff, as much as you want to think that believing or not believing it is no big deal. Every so often the Orthodox have come up in a conversation with Catholics I know and while acknowledging the similarities in practice between the two faiths, when I point out that the main difference is that they don't accept the Pope, they don't see the Orthodox as any closer to them than any other denomination. I get that you see the fruits of Orthodoxy and Catholicism as superior to the fruits of Protestantism, and I might even agree with you, but to say that there's not much difference is just plain off.

As far as swordfighting goes, a Protestant swordfighter would just say that your older Catholic and Orthodox schools, apart from entirely contradicting each other on the most crucial point of their swordfighting philosophy, have fallen into decadent and heretical swordfighting practices, and that while they might retain some elements of true swordfighting, the newer schools are superior.
 

Psalm27

Woodpecker
Gold Member
This is a perfect illustration of what Leonard has been telling you.
This is the most stupidly literalist interpretation of a verse I have ever seen.
Somehow you could not figure how about everybody (not just Christians from this or that denomination) use the word "father" to designate human fathers ... so nobody understands Matthew 23:9 but you, eh ?
By the way, how do you designate a human father then ?
You never told me your interpretation of that scripture. Please, edify me. Who should not be called father?

Here is more of that chapter:

Matthew 23:8-10 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

To me this says that we should not use the following words as titles: Rabbi, Father, Master
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
Please criticize my source material rather than appealing to authority. Then perhaps we can all learn something new. I am open to being wrong, but you are only appealing to authority, and by this I learn nothing.

So unless I am a Catholic I should shut up, is that it? Who are you to teach me, then?

Then nobody here is """qualified""" to teach anyone anything and this whole forum is pointless. Who are you to tell me to go look up some Catholic priests writings? Are you an educated minister? Do you have a PhD in theology? Are you a monk with years of experience and knowledge?

This is tiresome.

Wow. Talk about a self defeating argument.

Let me put it this way. Some people here are qualified to give advice on this topic commensurate with their real life achievements as Christians and/or the extent to which they have studied what I will refer to as classical Christianity.

The forum is very new to this topic and due to the gravity of the consequences for following shitty advice and garbage theology then YES, I wholeheartedly suggest that these are topics that should not be spitballed about by non-denominational randoms playing pin-the-tail on the path to heaven.

This is the very reason that the Catholic Church tried to stop the open dissemination of Bible literature. Because they knew that invariably every half wit and semi-literate nit-picker would go about making an ass of the entire religion.

@bucky To what extent close enough is good enough I can of course not be sure, but I do know that even a simple yet fundamental error can close the path to God entirely. We see this with "fundamentalist" Old Testament obsessives who cannot seem to grasp the simple concept of forgiveness either in the divine or common sense of the word.

But I once again think you're focusing on the wrong differences between RC and EO. The question you should be asking is "what differences are those branches demanding of their adherents in their path to God."

If you had two flatmates, one EO and one RC both quietly going about their everyday life, what would they end up clashing over? Their lifestyles as EO or RC Christians would be close enough to identical.
 
Last edited:

iop890

Crow
Gold Member
I'm calling for a total and complete shutdown of all analogies (including but not limited to: metaphors, similes, comparisons, allegories, and parables) until I can figure out what the hell you spergs are talking about.
 
Top