Electric Cars/Eco-Cult

FrancisK

Pelican
Catholic
Gold Member
They are still 20 years away from being anything more than novelty gadgets being purchase by suckers and people trying to virtue signal. I'm sure there will come a day when we all have an electric car just because it makes more sense, as much as I hate to say that but I'm sure the technology will evolve enough, nothing to to do with climate bs.

But I'll still have a gas guzzling car or two on the side!
 

dicknixon72

Pelican
I mentioned this in another thread and I'll reiterate here that alot of the blowback against EVs is warranted, but overlooks a more insidious aspect of modern cars - connectivity and telematics.

If you want to talk about truly being 'off the grid,' nothing beats a 'dumb' electric car like an old RAV4 EV, S-10 electric, or EV1 (you can't buy one, but the point is valid) - imagine generating your own power with a small-scale turbine or solar array, storing it with high-capacity batteries, and charging your car for a good 150-200mi of range. You would be in far better shape with that setup than Prepper Pete with his shiny new Ram 3500 Longhorn Laramie dually with a bed-mounted tank full of Diesel and cab filled with Black Rifle Zion Morning Roast - which is fully-connected to the manufacturer for software changes.

Most modern cars rely on such telematics for OTA updates to software and are integrated to the point where your car can be throttled if not shut down completely if the software is programmed to do so, regardless of your motive means, electric, gasoline, or otherwise.

That said, I have no issues with electric cars and the Pollyanna aspect of the technology is impressive and amazing. In fact, there are many usage cases where an electric may even have an advantage over a gasoline or Diesel powertrain, such as...
*Heavily-congested, small-radius driving
*Dedicated taxicabs
*Delivery vehicles - pretty much anything that travels a consistent, regular route without much deviation.

What I am against the forced adoption of such technology before its full maturation. People love to bring up the old horse vs car argument, yet seem to forget no one ever implemented mandates against the horse. Its like saying, okay, its 1919 and these two Englishmen flew across the Atlantic nonstop in an old Vickers bomber, so by 1921, we are banning all transatlantic crossings by ship.
 

murphykj930

Sparrow
Buddhist / Eastern
I was just looking at it on the map out of curiosity, because I was surprised to hear it called small.

It looks big on the map to me.
Well, it also looks bigger than Spain on the map, but Spain has about 150,000 more squared km than Norway. It’s also a bit smaller than Japan, which is usually considered small.
 
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Thomas More

Crow
Protestant
Well, it also looks bigger than Spain on the map, but Spain has about 150,000 more squared km than Norway. It’s also a bit smaller than Japan, which is usually considered small.
I was thinking of it in terms of electric car range, and Norway is easily large enough that you could drive farther than a single charge can take you, especially since cold weather reduces range.
 

DeWoken

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
People love to bring up the old horse vs car argument, yet seem to forget no one ever implemented mandates against the horse.
I'm not sure if that's true or not. People say that cars are "so dirty and polluting", but they forget that horses left manure everywhere. The smell of those old cities must have been strong.


That said, I have no issues with electric cars and the Pollyanna aspect of the technology is impressive and amazing. In fact, there are many usage cases where an electric may even have an advantage over a gasoline or Diesel powertrain, such as...
*Heavily-congested, small-radius driving
*Dedicated taxicabs
*Delivery vehicles - pretty much anything that travels a consistent, regular route without much deviation.

Yes, for urban areas and small-radius driving EVs might make sense. However, there are stories of cities trying to adopt electric fleets for one thing or another, only to discover that the batteries didn't function well in their climate. We all know from our experiences with smartphones that batteries don't last terribly long. For an EV the battery is a significant portion of the cost of the unit.

I wonder how EVs do with a lot of miles, such as in a taxi cab situation.
 

paternos

Kingfisher
Catholic
Electric cars have proven now to be realiable alternative engine technique.

As for a 100 years diesel and gasoline have powered 99% of transport .

Electric cars run for 90% on a mixture coal, gas, hydro and nuclear. (Hydro is 60% of renewables, solar and wind are small in the total mix)

Essence: Electric cars are run on coal and natural gas.

world-electricity-generation-mix-by-fuel-1971-2019.png
As the combustion of the coal and gas is done in a plant 50 miles away you don't have much noise. The noise is far away. Which is relaxing. In that process quite a lot of energy is lost. Logical, coal to energy, to distribution, to battery, from battery to movement.

Then replaceble parts. Electric cars carry around a 600kg battery pack. Copper, Lithium, Nickel, Lithium, Manganese are quite hard to get by in these quantities. Then tires / shocks need to be of stronger quality to handle the weight increase. Battery life span is very hard to say with the newest batteries as we haven't seen a lot of normal daily usage for 20 years. But let's say that every 15 years they need to be replaced.


VCE_OC_Composition-of-EV-battery_Mar_31.jpg

How I see it, is that it is just a divergence from transport via "oil and steel" to "coal, natural gas, nuclear energy, lithium, cobalt, copper and nickel"

It's not that the process of burning fuel in a plant and transporting to and from a battery is lot more efficient than a car engine in total. Especially in colder climates the heat from combustion is very useful for cars.

Electricity infrastructure is not yet upgraded for the extra usage. Which is leading to problems across Europe. Large projects are set up to increase the electric infrastructure.

So no progression, just change and depending on the situation you are in you can make a choice.

We can say for sure though that the product is a lot more fragile.

While normal cars depend on steel and oil. Electric cars depend on wide range of minerals in large quantities, electric infrastructure, coal, natural gas which are all largely state controlled.

I would be very surprised if we are able to run a large fleet of electric cars stabily. And then I don't mean Norway which is the richest country in Europe with loads of hydro and large quantities of natural gas.

Whatever way I look at it, it is a risky play with very limited gain. The gains are largely exaggerated, the downsides largely played down.

To me it seems just another distraction from God as in no way electric cars will improve life on earth.

Who cares? More of less same product. Bit different features in speed, acceleration, sound levels. Same traffic jams. Same roads. It just doesnt matter.
 
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Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
Some of these cars can be fun to drive, the BMW i3 has good acceleration, although it's heavy. I used to use those and also the little Mitsubishi / Citroen one when I had a car-sharing membership. I've been a passenger in a Porsche Taycan but was bothered to hear how much it weighed. Apparently very bad handling around corners.

Definitely these cars pull a lot of power out of the grid when charging. I once connected our hybrid to an old house and the house and its wiring just could not cope, the fuse kept tripping, you had to keep the other appliances switched off to charge the car.

Actually I was a passenger recently in something fully electric and it started going flat, it was quite a challenge to find somewhere to charge it in traffic. Lots of kW though in some of those charging stations so did not take that long. Still, I would not want to have to rely on a fully electric car, the hybrid seems a good compromise.

In another thread I also mentioned the great bother that a home charger wanted to be online either with WiFi or through 4G. Seems quite an intrusion on privacy for just a car charger.

Maybe they are overall better for the environment BUT various surveillance and control technology is built into them. It may also be built into modern petrol cars as well, but probably the electric cars are worse.
 

grenade001

Woodpecker
Catholic
I'm not sure if that's true or not. People say that cars are "so dirty and polluting", but they forget that horses left manure everywhere. The smell of those old cities must have been strong.




Yes, for urban areas and small-radius driving EVs might make sense. However, there are stories of cities trying to adopt electric fleets for one thing or another, only to discover that the batteries didn't function well in their climate. We all know from our experiences with smartphones that batteries don't last terribly long. For an EV the battery is a significant portion of the cost of the unit.

I wonder how EVs do with a lot of miles, such as in a taxi cab situation.

During summer time where I live, if one were to leave their smart device in the car for more than ten minutes, it would be rendered temporary inoperable due to the interior temperature exceeding 60 degrees Celsius.

EV's function most effectively as light runabout vehicles and traveling short distances. I wouldn't necessarily be against having one if I only had daily commutes under 30km round trips.

If it was something heavy like the Ford F-series Lightining, the range would half once you start needing to tow or carry anything. Which is a common requirement for the majority of new car buyers in the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, based on current market leaders in the new car markets which are all utility vehicles in those countries.

I'll finish off by stating that the Tesla Model 3 requires as much power to recharge its battery than a typical household would use in three days. Which means that at a minimum, the average household with an EV would require double the electricity. I fail to see any efforts underway to double electricity generation within less than s decade from now. Which only means that rolling blackouts will become the norm within 5-10 years.
 

grenade001

Woodpecker
Catholic
Definitely these cars pull a lot of power out of the grid when charging. I once connected our hybrid to an old house and the house and its wiring just could not cope, the fuse kept tripping, you had to keep the other appliances switched off to charge the car.

I remember being able to trip fuses in my grandparents old house built in the 1950s relatively easily during summer by turning on all the lights in the house when they had their AC on. This was obviously a house that hadn't been rewired since it was built.

Even in a modern house, you would want to invest in a 3-phase power charger for an EV, unless you wanted to wait 10-12 hours to recharge with a regular power point.
 

paternos

Kingfisher
Catholic
I'll finish off by stating that the Tesla Model 3 requires as much power to recharge its battery than a typical household would use in three days. Which means that at a minimum, the average household with an EV would require double the electricity. I fail to see any efforts underway to double electricity generation within less than s decade from now. Which only means that rolling blackouts will become the norm within 5-10 years.
Very true.

In 2021, 135 billion gallons of gasoline were consumed in transportation in the United States.

1 gallon of gasoline is equivalent to about 8 pounds of coal.

Since coal is the primary source for electricity generation, we need at least an additional 600 billion pounds of coal per year in the U.S. to keep the fleet running.

And lots of additional power plants, not to mention infrastructure. The current electricity lines probably won't be able to hold the power. For example, if you're charging a car at high power at the same time when you get home, that's going to put a lot of strain on the infrastructure.

Charging will then have to be done within a couple of hours.

I expect the same thing: blackouts, load shedding, or all sorts of government regulations. Anhyhow, we won't be prepared, with loads of problems down the line.
 

Nordwand

Pelican
Other Christian
Slightly off topic, but here's the advert for the new Mini, that was shown on tv last night:



Even with a car advert, they can't stop.
 

DeWoken

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
That ad will probably hit the spot for many wahmen and assorted PoS (People of Soy) ;)

Okay here's another video. I correct myself, EVs are not statistically more likely to catch fire than ICE cars. However, there is this weird glitch where being flooded with (salt?) water makes them catch on fire, and EV fires are much worse. (Hybrids are more likely than both to catch fire).

 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
I test-drove a VW e-Golf a few years ago and it was very underpowered and unexciting to drive.

There is a quirk I've noticed with electric cars and hybrids - when you brake mildly it happens with the 'regenerative brakes', the slowing is through the motors putting the energy back in the battery. This means that the standard brake pads and steel brake disks to not get to touch each other and rub as much as usual. So instead of staying nice and shiny, they rust!
 

dicknixon72

Pelican

paternos

Kingfisher
Catholic
General Motors - who is 'all in' on EVs - isn't stupid and hedging by continuing to invest in the next-generation of small-block V8 engines...

GM Will Make a New Small-Block V-8, Spending $854 Million to Build It

...you'll see it in fullsize trucks, SUVs, and the Corvette...

C9 Chevy Corvette Will Have Internal Combustion Engine, Debut in 2028: Report

...along with this old workhorse, which keeps plodding along...

Chevy Express May Get 2027 Model Year Redesign, Keep ICE Powertrain
It's very interesting.

I saw a Toyota presentation outlining some new engines as well.


It shows me that all the major companies are under the yoak of the internationalism / communism as well.

Outwardly they just speak on green energy, solar panels, batteries, phasing out petrol cars, equity, corporate responsibility.

Inward they are developing new engines, fuel technology, it's just not talked about.

We just live in a time, in which you cant oppose the emperor vocally, or you get a huge media backlash or even financial / import / export sanctions.
 

murphykj930

Sparrow
Buddhist / Eastern
It shows me that all the major companies are under the yoak of the internationalism / communism as well.
Companies are under the yoak of capitalism. They don’t do what “good”. They do what makes money.

But EV’s aren’t that good, anyways. I respect Toyotas decision to stick to hybrids.
 
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