Emotionally strong people don't cry.
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Parlay44 said:
Men that don't cry have control over their emotional state.
Experience and maturity gives you control.
I don't need to cry over death any more because I've lived through enough of it to bear the sadness of loss on my shoulders without buckling under the weight of it. I know I'm strong enough to carry that weight.
This means I know exactly who I am.
I still feel the pain of it. It's just that I've learnt to tolerate the pain, and the idea I'm 'repressing something' and it would be better for me to 'break down' is rubbish.
I don't need to weep and wail like a child, because I've learnt to skip the stages of grief straight to acceptance. Death is immutable. Regret, entertaining 'what if' scenarios, anger and wailing won't change that.
All else is the 'weakness is strength' bollocks beloved of women, and they cultivate it in each other, due to their love of indulging their emotional hysteria.
I recognise we're in such a Neo-Victorian Sensible Age that excessive emotional reactivity is the dominant expected behaviour, and Sensibles will find me suspicious and inhuman for not being reactive. Put me back in World War II, and I'm the guy not going to pieces as the bullets fly during a mission.
That being said, I am the guy people always turn to in a crisis because they know I'm strong and don't go to pieces. Cultivate it in yourself, and you'll take your natural dominant role in your circle.
I say if you feel like crying, cry unless it's going to go against something more important that you are trying to achieve.
Suppressing emotions because you want to prove that you are more manly or whatever is try hard.
With that said, if you are a man who is crying a lot, then your interpretation of reality might be emotionally immature.
When you get older and people you know or love start to pass away, then it changes your perspective on life in an inveterate way.
Maybe when you were younger, the thought of your grandparents or parents dying was idea, but when something like that actually happens, there isn't a way to prepare for it. Then when other people start dying, you aren't as shocked.
In general, life is limited and there is a lot of loss involved. You accept this reality when you mature.
Things that used to scare you or make you sad don't have the same effect as they used to.
I might get choked up once in a while, but I can't remember the last time I had one of these:
Suppressing emotions because you want to prove that you are more manly or whatever is try hard.
With that said, if you are a man who is crying a lot, then your interpretation of reality might be emotionally immature.
When you get older and people you know or love start to pass away, then it changes your perspective on life in an inveterate way.
Maybe when you were younger, the thought of your grandparents or parents dying was idea, but when something like that actually happens, there isn't a way to prepare for it. Then when other people start dying, you aren't as shocked.
In general, life is limited and there is a lot of loss involved. You accept this reality when you mature.
Things that used to scare you or make you sad don't have the same effect as they used to.
I might get choked up once in a while, but I can't remember the last time I had one of these:
game_ethic
Kingfisher
Crying can be good, but only when it's truly warranted.
It's perfectly fine to cry for the death of a loved one, for example. There are studies that show people who suppress their tears have higher stress levels, high blood pressure, and more likely to have heart problems.
I think instead of saying "Emotionally strong people don't cry," you should say "Emotionally strong people know when to cry."
It's perfectly fine to cry for the death of a loved one, for example. There are studies that show people who suppress their tears have higher stress levels, high blood pressure, and more likely to have heart problems.
I think instead of saying "Emotionally strong people don't cry," you should say "Emotionally strong people know when to cry."
Frenchie, I recommend watching the movie 'Only Angels Have Wings' by Howard Hawks. Twice. Then I'd welcome engaging in a discussion on when crying is appropriate.
game_ethic said:
I think the larger point that this thread can be related to is acting appropriately.
A man cries when it is time to cry.
A man fights when it is time to fight.
A man pulls away from the first kiss girl moments before she pulls away from him.
An ideal mensch, whether or not he is conscious of it, is fully calibrated for every situation.
Vicious said:
Read my post, I cried at both my grand parent's funerals. Good people and miss them very much. I can definitely fake cry myself.
Guess I'm just tired of women who claim they're strong and then go wailing around me 24/7 for reasons I find pointless.
Also love all of the low count posters appearing for this. Great way to bring out the trolls.
batboy89 said:
I went partially blind in my left eye after some blunt trama to when I was in high school. It sucked, but I held my own without some water works. U jelly?
As a guess, I think the real issue for Frenchie is he's had to endure the chaotic feminine emotions from this woman for quite a while. It's not an easy thing to do.
As men we want fix their problems so the chaos of their emotions will go away, but how do you fix a problem like cancer?
It's not an easy, I'll be there for her while she cries about her lost job, and she'll be fine in a few days after she gets some interviews. Her problem will not be going away, and the emotions will not be either. In fact, it will probably get worse.
It's hard watching someone you know and care about die. You don't know what to say, and you are affected by it, and their emotions. It makes you sad, and it's emotionally draining.
I remember visiting my Grandfather who at 91 died from prostate cancer. He fought that long and hard and I was fortunate to be visiting him in his home right before he passed away. He was sitting in his favorite green recliner and I asked him how he was doing. He looked over at me with a stoic countenance and responded, "I'm dying". I didn't know what to say, other than, "I know Grandpa". What do you say to that? I know the well of feeling rising up inside me was difficult to bear.
I stayed with him over the next few days until he passed away and he never shed a tear, but then again he was 91 and lived a full life that few get to, and it was still hard for me to endure.
As men we want fix their problems so the chaos of their emotions will go away, but how do you fix a problem like cancer?
It's not an easy, I'll be there for her while she cries about her lost job, and she'll be fine in a few days after she gets some interviews. Her problem will not be going away, and the emotions will not be either. In fact, it will probably get worse.
It's hard watching someone you know and care about die. You don't know what to say, and you are affected by it, and their emotions. It makes you sad, and it's emotionally draining.
I remember visiting my Grandfather who at 91 died from prostate cancer. He fought that long and hard and I was fortunate to be visiting him in his home right before he passed away. He was sitting in his favorite green recliner and I asked him how he was doing. He looked over at me with a stoic countenance and responded, "I'm dying". I didn't know what to say, other than, "I know Grandpa". What do you say to that? I know the well of feeling rising up inside me was difficult to bear.
I stayed with him over the next few days until he passed away and he never shed a tear, but then again he was 91 and lived a full life that few get to, and it was still hard for me to endure.
I was a horrible crybaby in my youth. It seems like hardly a fortnight went past without me turning on the waterworks, but in reality it was probably less.
To be fair I had some baggage at the time - parent's divorce, getting into fights, trouble at school.
But now I don't cry anymore. Not even at funerals.
Maybe I'm number to the sensations or maybe I've developed an emotional maturity in the years since I left college and lived in the real world.
I was watching an episode of Law and Order: SVU the other night and Elliot Stabler (played by Christopher Meloni - damn fine actor) was in a voluntary counselling session. He started recalling an incident from his childhood where his father beat him that had emotional ties to a case that he'd been working some days earlier. After some time he started to cry and berated himself for his weakness because "only weak little pansies cry." Then the shrink said to him "It takes a lot of balls to talk about your problems in the open."
Honestly, there's a whole lot of grey here. Ask 10 different people and you'll get 20 different answers.
For some reason, it makes me think of Hamlet: 'This above all, to thine own self be true.'
To be fair I had some baggage at the time - parent's divorce, getting into fights, trouble at school.
But now I don't cry anymore. Not even at funerals.
Maybe I'm number to the sensations or maybe I've developed an emotional maturity in the years since I left college and lived in the real world.
I was watching an episode of Law and Order: SVU the other night and Elliot Stabler (played by Christopher Meloni - damn fine actor) was in a voluntary counselling session. He started recalling an incident from his childhood where his father beat him that had emotional ties to a case that he'd been working some days earlier. After some time he started to cry and berated himself for his weakness because "only weak little pansies cry." Then the shrink said to him "It takes a lot of balls to talk about your problems in the open."
Honestly, there's a whole lot of grey here. Ask 10 different people and you'll get 20 different answers.
For some reason, it makes me think of Hamlet: 'This above all, to thine own self be true.'
frenchie said:
There is a time for crying, and a time for not crying.
One of them makes you out to be the bigger man, the other makes you out to be a mark to be targetted.
Amongst close friends and family, where you are amongst your most trusted, then yes, show your emotions, don't ball like a little girl obviously, but let it out.
Amongst enemies that are looking for any kind of weakness - do not give an inch. Be sterile, cold and aloof.
Any man worth his salt knows this.
You just never cry. Never. Except, when you are within the confines of your most sanctuous environment.
Every man cries. And if he didn't, then he never met a situation that tested him beyond his limits.
We can cry for mama, we can cry through frustration, hell, we can even cry through happiness.
Every one will mark your weak spot if you do it in public.
As a general rule? Don't!
But those Men that do and get away with it, they have the bigger balls. But you really do need very big balls to do it. Even then, other men will mark your card.
There is little to be gained and very much to be lost. Keep it for those closest to you, where there is no doubt of trust.
Who cares? I'm pretty sure crying and grandiose emotional displays are just a part of certain cultures. That isn't to say that the act of crying in and of itself is cultural, but this is to say that in some cultures it is encouraged more so than in others.
Who gives a damn, though? Of course women cry a lot, but aren't they also more emotionally unstable than men? To hold men and women to the same emotional standards seems a bit silly to me.
In my own life, I've suffered from severe depression that often tested the limits of my sanity, so I've cried quite a bit. I don't think anyone close to me, beyond my mother and father have seen my cry, though. This isn't including black out drunk crying. Ha. That said, I never claimed to be strong, or manly; so, there is that.
Ultimately, who gives a shit? Just because one never sheds tears doesn't mean they're tougher than someone who does. They certainly have more emotional fortitude than a fellow such as myself, but that doesn't speak to how well they handle the situation beyond not reacting emotionally.
Who gives a damn, though? Of course women cry a lot, but aren't they also more emotionally unstable than men? To hold men and women to the same emotional standards seems a bit silly to me.
In my own life, I've suffered from severe depression that often tested the limits of my sanity, so I've cried quite a bit. I don't think anyone close to me, beyond my mother and father have seen my cry, though. This isn't including black out drunk crying. Ha. That said, I never claimed to be strong, or manly; so, there is that.
Ultimately, who gives a shit? Just because one never sheds tears doesn't mean they're tougher than someone who does. They certainly have more emotional fortitude than a fellow such as myself, but that doesn't speak to how well they handle the situation beyond not reacting emotionally.
Some refining of why to cry is important.
If it happens to you directly, don't cry.
If it happens outside of you but affects you emotionally, shed a tear... begrudgingly.
I cry when I hear certain types of music (Beethoven symphonies) but when I got some horrible news last year regarding my medical condition, I gave it the royal "meh" and kept on going with dry eyes and a steady heart.
If it happens to you directly, don't cry.
If it happens outside of you but affects you emotionally, shed a tear... begrudgingly.
I cry when I hear certain types of music (Beethoven symphonies) but when I got some horrible news last year regarding my medical condition, I gave it the royal "meh" and kept on going with dry eyes and a steady heart.
batboy89 said:
:dodgy:
This is a good example of men encouraging female hysteria in each other, fuelled by an education system, and a media / entertainment culture produced by low-resilient comfortable children of privilege who celebrate emotional weakness by pretending that 'weakness is strength'.
You guys are always complaining about the blue pill bullshit being fed to you, and here you are buying into it. Who is going to encourage you to cry more: a 90-year-old war veteran, or a 40-year-old female social worker / psychologist? You're telling me they're consistently-wrong about masculinity except for this one case, one that promotes the opposite idea about men crying that 6000 years of history across drastically-differing cultures has consistently actively-discouraged?
Crying is not strength, and never will be strength. The belief that it reduces stress is frequently-challenged by psychological research, and newer theories suggest crying is a reaction to an individual's perceived helplessness in a situation. Does that sound closer to strength, or weakness?
Buddhist monks see adult crying as an unskilful, exaggerated and selfish emotion.
Men don't have the female luxury of indulging their sadness, as the weak and helpless need stoic male strength to protect and care for them. There are wolves at the door.
It's not being unfeeling, it's about being strong enough to feel without emotionally-breaking down.
This is a core component of masculinity and the weight and gravitas it gives you is crack to women.
If you want to utterly-repulse a woman, enough that she never wants to fuck you again, go right ahead, sob your heart out in front of her. If you want her deeply-devoted to you, be the chest she can bury her head in to cry when things are hard.
Days of Broken Arrows said:
No, my grandmother who would have been 100 last year was attacked by a guy in the 1920's and he attempted to rape her. She tracked him down with the police and they found the guy and put him in prison. Apparently he had done this to numerous women. When she told the story she laughed about it like it was no big deal, even though she busted the guy. No signs of "emotional damage", different era.
AnonymousBosch said:
So from the OP and subsequent replies, we have a few parallel discussions happening:
1. Emotionally strong people (men or women but especially RP men) don't cry. At all. Ever.
2. Emotionally strong people would never cry in front of an outsider.
3. Emotionally strong people don't respect people who can't regulate their emotions.
4. Emotionally strong people might cry in front of a trusted member of their inner circle. That doesn't include women you're not related to.
I think we can generally agree on 2 and 3 - in some contexts it's unwise to appear weak or out of control in front of strangers if you can at all help it however Know Thyself overrides all. Ditch the hysterical friends, suggest counseling for them, etc. It's not something a well-meaning friend can do unless you're really emotionally prepared for that. To each their own. Though saying "female friend" makes it sounds she's manipulating you (hello Esther V) to be her emo-release valve. I assume there's no sex involved. If there is, this gets even stickier - how many of us have BTDT? You obviously care about her but her emotional dysregulation is poisoning you and your overall attitude about 'when is it appropriate to cry.' I hear you man.
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1. For anyone who hasn't yet watched the movie I mentioned in my previous post, it's very much a red pill film:
Link
Cary Grant embodies this in 'Only Angels Have Wings'. He flirt shamelessly, bangs women and forgets their names laughing the whole time. Pilots die on his watch, he doesn't bat an eye - doesn't like it but that's business. Weather too shitty for the newbs? He goes up. When his best friend .. well, you need to watch the movie. This guy cries when it's the only appropriate response. And it's fucking the manliest thing you'll see all year.
Being a man - being HUMAN - isn't about feigned stoicism nor unbridled hysteria. Either is a sign of emotional dysfunction; hyper-regulation or non-regulation, vacuum or volcano, 0 or 1. I believe wisdom and wise action are about being fully present to what's happening at subtle levels while also noticing the broader context in which all is occurring. Expanded consciousness and emotional maturity. The more we integrate these aspects, the more a natural response arises in everything we do....
soup said:
This.
AnonymousBosch said:
I totally disagree though it depends what 'school' of Buddhism you 'belong' to. Perhaps Mahayana, but not all schools or practices. I've spent significant time with Adyashanti, who has related many stories from various masters he's personally studied with or read their works. Since you brought up this specific idea of 'crying as unskillful etc.' the truth is more subtle. Here's a story he told best I can recall:
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A master is having lunch with a group of his students at a restaurant. One of them gets a phone call and relays a message - the master's mother, having been sick some time, has died. When he hear the news, the master starts wailing, crying, sobbing like a baby and is just inconsolable. Most or all the students leave, some feeling very embarrassed at their master's 'shameless display.'
"Why is he crying so loud, and in public! I thought he was 'enlightened'?" says a new student.
A more senior student shakes his head and says "you don't understand at all. Enlightenment is not about not feeling anything and not reacting, it's about not being stuck in any one feeling."
The master, some minutes later, comes out - smiling and back to his usual self.
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The ultimate expression of FREEDOM (which is everyone's birth-right as a human being, whether or not they choose to exercise it) is to be totally present to what arises within you in any given moment. If it is an overwhelming rush of emotion in the context of your mother dying, then crying is absolutely appropriate. The master was SELF-LESS enough to not give a shit what anyone thought because he was totally present. He had practiced Self-mastery to be freed of the self. There probably was no sense of self in this teacher, which is where we're judging, debating, wondering from. Our mind having its fun imagining what's real vs. being truly real in our integrated being.
AnonymousBosch said:
This - again - depends on the person. If you're acting alpha and your mom dies when you're with your current fuck buddy, sure. If you're actually yourself (alpha, beta, whatever) then ... well, you'll see what happens when the time comes.
Rigsby said:
Great comment. The moments where the line between anguish and ecstasy blurrs - tears and laughter mix ... and you're blown open
I think total lack of crying probably means you're emotionally underdeveloped. Yeah don't cry like a little bitch in public. I think there's a big difference between crying to release emotional pain and crying for attention.
Men over the age of 13-14 should probably average crying maybe once every one to two years. Probably alone when nobody is watching. But when a loved one dies and you cry at their funeral? That doesn't make you beta or emotionally unstable. It just means you fucking loved a person who died, and you'll never see or talk to them again and you're fucking sad. As a man, if you want to cry, fucking cry, just don't complain and whine like a little bitch to other people. And don't do it often.
Men over the age of 13-14 should probably average crying maybe once every one to two years. Probably alone when nobody is watching. But when a loved one dies and you cry at their funeral? That doesn't make you beta or emotionally unstable. It just means you fucking loved a person who died, and you'll never see or talk to them again and you're fucking sad. As a man, if you want to cry, fucking cry, just don't complain and whine like a little bitch to other people. And don't do it often.
CactusCat589
Kingfisher
I can only cry if I go to Southern Methodist on Sundays pretending to have testicular cancer and shove my face into the bitch tits of a guy who really does have testicular cancer.
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