Endurance cardio- pros and cons

frankunderwood

Pigeon
Protestant
The human body is not designed to sustain decades' worth of high intensity exercise of any type. You can point to freaks like David Goggins, but those are extreme outliers. Even elite athletes with great genetics usually start to get majorly derailed by injuries in their thirties, and in most sports athletes are no longer competitive by their late 30s. For maximum health and longevity, moderate exercise is definitely best. Walking/hiking is probably the best overall exercise for general health, followed by weightlifting. I think the unfortunate popular perception of cardio (running especially) being the "go-to" exercise for "getting in shape" is probably a big contributor towards obesity. Because distance running is pretty terrible as an exercise. It's tough on the body, doesn't burn as many calories as people think, greatly increases appetite, elevates cortisol and other stress hormones and is extremely uncomfortable. So what happens? People decide they want to "get in shape" and start a running program, and can't stick with it because they either injure themselves or find it simply too uncomfortable to maintain as a habit. So they end up back on the couch and sour towards the idea of exercise, perhaps forever. If they had instead done a program based on walking/hiking with a weighted vest and doing some moderate intensity weightlifting, they would be much more likely to be successful.
I do wonder how much of elite athletes in non-contact sports getting injured and having their body break down during their 30's are a result of overloading their bodies from exercise, and how much is a result of the exercise in combination with nutrient deficient diets heavy in carbs and seed oils.

An extreme example is how vegans deteriorate faster and faster as they age. They can pull it of for a few years especially if they are in their late teens and early to mid twenties, but eventually they all get more and more health problems until they either quit or die. Some hang on for a few decades while looking like skeletons with skin on them. That's all malnutrition and starvation.

Now take some soccer player or marathon runner who is eating a moderate protein, high carbohydrate, low saturated fat diet with plenty of seed oils and grains. He is eating meat unlike the vegan and is offsetting his high carbohydrate intake if not fully than at least to some degree with his exercise regime. Other than that he is still operating under the same misguided diet paradigm as the rest of society consuming processed grains, sugar and seed oils. His exercise regime will increase his need for micro nutrients, saturated fat and collagen consumption. My hypothesis is that the typical athlete is not getting those increased needs met and over time, though more slowly than the vegans his body start breaking down in a similar manner.
 

C-Note

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Gold Member
I completed the Ironman triathlon this past weekend. After two years of preparation, I'm glad to have it over with. From now on, I'll focus on the shorter distances (sprints and Olympics/standards/intermediates) because they're more fun.

I was a little surprised by what I saw at the event. One thing I didn't realize, is that many of the participants planned on walking the marathon distance of the running leg. You have 17 hours to complete the event, so if you finish the 2.4 mile swim in around 1 1/2 hours, and the 112 mile bike ride in around 6-7 hours, both reasonable times, it gives you about 8 hours to finish, which is enough time to walk the entire marathon. I would say that almost 1/3 of the 1300 finishers in the event walked most or all of the marathon.

I had bad hot foot during the cycling portion, which caused me to have to take frequent breaks to let my feet cool down and extended my bike time to about 7:15 hours, putting me near the back of the pack. But, I was able to run the entire marathon distance in about 5 hours, which put me in the upper 40% of participants for the running portion. I must have passed about 300 people, almost all walking, in the marathon. I finished in 14:35.

When someone tells you that they've completed an Ironman, you can tell by their time if they walked the marathon. If their time is 15 hours or less, then they almost certainly ran at least part of it. If their time is 15-17 hours, they likely walked the marathon distance. When I looked at the final results, one 30-year-old lady had a time of 17:00:02, i.e. she missed getting credit for completing it by two seconds.

One-hundred fifty-five people did not complete the event. I saw several people collapse and get carted away by ambulance during the marathon leg. I'm curious as to if they were vaxxed or not and if the Ironman has had more people collapse the past two years than previous years because of the coof shots. I doubt the Ironman organization would be willing to discuss it.
 
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Sooth

Pelican
Gold Member
I completed the Ironman triathlon this past weekend. After two years of preparation, I'm glad to have it over with. From now on, I'll focus on the shorter distances (sprints and Olympics/standards/intermediates) because they're more fun.

I was a little surprised by what I saw at the event. One thing I didn't realize, is that many of the participants planned on walking the marathon distance of the running leg. You have 17 hours to complete the event, so if you finish the 2.4 mile swim in around 1 1/2 hours, and the 112 mile bike ride in around 6-7 hours, both reasonable times, it gives you about 8 hours to finish, which is enough time to walk the entire marathon. I would say that almost 1/3 of the 1300 finishers in the event walked most or all of the marathon.

I had bad hot foot during the cycling portion, which caused me to have to take frequent breaks to let my feet cool down and extended my bike time to about 7:15 hours, putting me near the back of the pack. But, I was able to run the entire marathon distance in about 5 hours, which put me in the upper 40% of participants for the running portion. I must have passed about 300 people, almost all walking, in the marathon. I finished in 14:35.

When someone tells you that they've completed an Ironman, you can tell by their time if they walked the marathon. If their time is 15 hours or less, then they almost certainly ran at least part of it. If their time is 15-17 hours, they likely walked the marathon distance. When I looked at the final results, one 30-year-old lady had a time of 17:00:02, i.e. she missed getting credit for completing it by two seconds.

One-hundred fifty-five people did not complete the event. I saw several people collapse and get carted away by ambulance during the marathon leg. I'm curious as to if they were vaxxed or not and if the Ironman has had more people collapse the past two years than previous years because of the coof shots. I doubt the Ironman organization would be willing to discuss it.

Congrats!
 

rainy

Pelican
Other Christian
I completed the Ironman triathlon this past weekend. After two years of preparation, I'm glad to have it over with. From now on, I'll focus on the shorter distances (sprints and Olympics/standards/intermediates) because they're more fun.

I was a little surprised by what I saw at the event. One thing I didn't realize, is that many of the participants planned on walking the marathon distance of the running leg. You have 17 hours to complete the event, so if you finish the 2.4 mile swim in around 1 1/2 hours, and the 112 mile bike ride in around 6-7 hours, both reasonable times, it gives you about 8 hours to finish, which is enough time to walk the entire marathon. I would say that almost 1/3 of the 1300 finishers in the event walked most or all of the marathon.

I had bad hot foot during the cycling portion, which caused me to have to take frequent breaks to let my feet cool down and extended my bike time to about 7:15 hours, putting me near the back of the pack. But, I was able to run the entire marathon distance in about 5 hours, which put me in the upper 40% of participants for the running portion. I must have passed about 300 people, almost all walking, in the marathon. I finished in 14:35.

When someone tells you that they've completed an Ironman, you can tell by their time if they walked the marathon. If their time is 15 hours or less, then they almost certainly ran at least part of it. If their time is 15-17 hours, they likely walked the marathon distance. When I looked at the final results, one 30-year-old lady had a time of 17:00:02, i.e. she missed getting credit for completing it by two seconds.

One-hundred fifty-five people did not complete the event. I saw several people collapse and get carted away by ambulance during the marathon leg. I'm curious as to if they were vaxxed or not and if the Ironman has had more people collapse the past two years than previous years because of the coof shots. I doubt the Ironman organization would be willing to discuss it.
Awesome man.
 
I completed the Ironman triathlon this past weekend. After two years of preparation, I'm glad to have it over with. From now on, I'll focus on the shorter distances (sprints and Olympics/standards/intermediates) because they're more fun.

I was a little surprised by what I saw at the event. One thing I didn't realize, is that many of the participants planned on walking the marathon distance of the running leg. You have 17 hours to complete the event, so if you finish the 2.4 mile swim in around 1 1/2 hours, and the 112 mile bike ride in around 6-7 hours, both reasonable times, it gives you about 8 hours to finish, which is enough time to walk the entire marathon. I would say that almost 1/3 of the 1300 finishers in the event walked most or all of the marathon.

I had bad hot foot during the cycling portion, which caused me to have to take frequent breaks to let my feet cool down and extended my bike time to about 7:15 hours, putting me near the back of the pack. But, I was able to run the entire marathon distance in about 5 hours, which put me in the upper 40% of participants for the running portion. I must have passed about 300 people, almost all walking, in the marathon. I finished in 14:35.

When someone tells you that they've completed an Ironman, you can tell by their time if they walked the marathon. If their time is 15 hours or less, then they almost certainly ran at least part of it. If their time is 15-17 hours, they likely walked the marathon distance. When I looked at the final results, one 30-year-old lady had a time of 17:00:02, i.e. she missed getting credit for completing it by two seconds.

One-hundred fifty-five people did not complete the event. I saw several people collapse and get carted away by ambulance during the marathon leg. I'm curious as to if they were vaxxed or not and if the Ironman has had more people collapse the past two years than previous years because of the coof shots. I doubt the Ironman organization would be willing to discuss it.
Congraduations! Ironman is no joke.
 
In response to your original post, depending on your age. I am just training for a sprint triathlon which is coming up in 3 weeks. I am in my late, middle age. I find it impossible to retain muscle while doing endurance training. Without the higher testosterone level of the youth, I don't have the energy to lift weights between my cardio workout, and I cannot build or retain muscle anyway.

I only train 3-4x a week between swimming, biking, and running. And most of my workout are just 40 mins - 1 hour. I still lost 10 lbs, and some of it was muscle.

After this sprint triathlon, I am going to take a break from cardio, and focus on building back some muscle.

For me, just being able to do a sprint tri, maybe an olympic is proof enough of cardiovascular fitness. Anything longer is pure endurance/mental challenge and probably tips over the benefit of cardio training.

The cons of excessive cardio:
- For older guy like me, impossible to gain muscle
- Too much endurance sports actually have been linked to increased cardia arrhythmia (atrial fibrillation)
- Join problem. Only if you are genetically predisposed. High body mass will more likely to lead to knee and hip arthritis than regular jogging. For most people, a little bit of running will actually benefit their joint.

Pros of cardio:
- If you are older, and concerned about diabetes, cholesterol, zone 2 cardio is particularly good for metabolic health.
- Feels good to run and swim. I don't love biking.
- I think any healthy person should be able to run 3 miles at a brisk pace.
 

Nelson12

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
I go on the cross trainer for about 52.30 minutes on the highest level of 25 5x a week. I’m thinking it’s too much but not sure what an appropriate time length would be. I also do weights 3x a week.

I‘m 35 and have lost a lot of weight but still have a bit of a belly. I think it’s because I eat too much after the exercise. I’m trying to flatten my stomach with sit ups as well. Any advice would be welcome :).

On the days I don’t go to the gym I get bored easily when I’m home and start going to the fridge. I‘m trying to stop it due to self control. If I had a good social life it would be different because I’d be distracted.
 
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C-Note

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Gold Member
In response to your original post, depending on your age. I am just training for a sprint triathlon which is coming up in 3 weeks. I am in my late, middle age. I find it impossible to retain muscle while doing endurance training. Without the higher testosterone level of the youth, I don't have the energy to lift weights between my cardio workout, and I cannot build or retain muscle anyway.

I only train 3-4x a week between swimming, biking, and running. And most of my workout are just 40 mins - 1 hour. I still lost 10 lbs, and some of it was muscle.
Even when I was training for the Ironman over this past year, doing up to 15 hours of cardio a week, I was still also doing about five hours of weight lifting a week. I telework almost full time so that's why I had that much time.

I think you just need to work up to it. Before I restarted the triathlon training at the beginning of the scamdemic, I was already doing about five hours of cardio and about three hours of weightlifting a week. I found that it took me about two years to get to where I could do the weekly load I mention above. I'm 53 years old.

The key is consistency. Start with what you can handle, then slowly increase it. The first time I did a sprint triathlon, about eight years ago, it completely wiped me out. I was exhausted for several days afterwards. Now, I can be back in the gym the next day, albeit not completely at 100%.

I would suggest a 30-minute run three times a week, a 45-minute bike ride 2-3 times a week (different days than the run), and two 30-minute swimming sessions. If that schedule wipes you out, then lower the intensity, but maintain the time lengths. Then, start adding the weight lifting. Maybe one session of shoulder presses on Monday, weighted rows on Tuesday (upper back/lats), bench press on Wednesday, deadlifts on Thursday (for lower back and legs), and shoulder shrugs (traps) on Friday. Do abs M-W-F and side bends T-Th. Once your body can handle it, start adding additional exercises. That's what I did and it worked for me. I think muscle memory plays a role in addition to strength and endurance, which is why consistency is so important.

Now that the Ironman is over, I'm focused on speed. So my cardio from now on will be much shorter duration, at much higher intensity. We'll see how it goes. I've found that as I age, I injure more easily and it takes me longer to improve.
 
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Even when I was training for the Ironman over this past year, doing up to 15 hours of cardio a week, I was still also doing about five hours of weight lifting a week. I telework almost full time so that's why I had that much time.

I think you just need to work up to it. Before I restarted the triathlon training at the beginning of the scamdemic, I was already doing about five hours of cardio and about three hours of weightlifting a week. I found that it took me about two years to get to where I could do the weekly load I mention above. I'm 53 years old.

The key is consistency. Start with what you can handle, then slowly increase it. The first time I did a sprint triathlon, about eight years ago, it completely wiped me out. I was exhausted for several days afterwards. Now, I can be back in the gym the next day, albeit not completely at 100%.

I would suggest a 30-minute run three times a week, a 45-minute bike ride 2-3 times a week (different days than the run), and two 30-minute swimming sessions. If that schedule wipes you out, then lower the intensity, but maintain the time lengths. Then, start adding the weight lifting. Maybe one session of shoulder presses on Monday, weighted rows on Tuesday (upper back/lats), bench press on Wednesday, deadlifts on Thursday (for lower back and legs), and shoulder shrugs (traps) on Friday. Do abs M-W-F and side bends T-Th. Once your body can handle it, start adding additional exercises. That's what I did and it worked for me. I think muscle memory plays a role in addition to strength and endurance, which is why consistency is so important.

Now that the Ironman is over, I'm focused on speed. So my cardio from now on will be much shorter duration, at much higher intensity. We'll see how it goes. I've found that as I age, I injure more easily and it takes me longer to improve.
Wow, that's impressive. I am gonna focus on weights in the winter month. I'll still do light cardio, but won't start cardio training until spring, and knock out another triathlon in the summer. I definitely want more muscle.
 

TheosisSeeker

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
Even when I was training for the Ironman over this past year, doing up to 15 hours of cardio a week, I was still also doing about five hours of weight lifting a week. I telework almost full time so that's why I had that much time.

I think you just need to work up to it. Before I restarted the triathlon training at the beginning of the scamdemic, I was already doing about five hours of cardio and about three hours of weightlifting a week. I found that it took me about two years to get to where I could do the weekly load I mention above. I'm 53 years old.

The key is consistency. Start with what you can handle, then slowly increase it. The first time I did a sprint triathlon, about eight years ago, it completely wiped me out. I was exhausted for several days afterwards. Now, I can be back in the gym the next day, albeit not completely at 100%.

I would suggest a 30-minute run three times a week, a 45-minute bike ride 2-3 times a week (different days than the run), and two 30-minute swimming sessions. If that schedule wipes you out, then lower the intensity, but maintain the time lengths. Then, start adding the weight lifting. Maybe one session of shoulder presses on Monday, weighted rows on Tuesday (upper back/lats), bench press on Wednesday, deadlifts on Thursday (for lower back and legs), and shoulder shrugs (traps) on Friday. Do abs M-W-F and side bends T-Th. Once your body can handle it, start adding additional exercises. That's what I did and it worked for me. I think muscle memory plays a role in addition to strength and endurance, which is why consistency is so important.

Now that the Ironman is over, I'm focused on speed. So my cardio from now on will be much shorter duration, at much higher intensity. We'll see how it goes. I've found that as I age, I injure more easily and it takes me longer to improve.

Kudos, that's some crazy volume. It's been hard for me to lift more than once a week on top of 8+ hours grappling per week. Some days I'll do two classes and throwing people, getting thrown, and sparring lots of rounds take a toll on the body.

I'm all for prehab and injury prevention these days. Do you do any stretching or flexibility work?
 

C-Note

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Gold Member
Kudos, that's some crazy volume. It's been hard for me to lift more than once a week on top of 8+ hours grappling per week. Some days I'll do two classes and throwing people, getting thrown, and sparring lots of rounds take a toll on the body.

I'm all for prehab and injury prevention these days. Do you do any stretching or flexibility work?
Doing lots of grappling and randori is a different animal, in my experience. I can do so much weightlifting because it's mainly upper body, while the cardio is obviously mainly legs. Although the swimming is upper body, the water support makes it less stressful and I've been taking it easy on the intensity. When I was doing karate and BJJ, over 15 years ago I found that it affected my weighlifting. I suffered frequent impact injuries in the karate, such as internal bruising. It was a "full contact" style. The BJJ caused me some joint injuries in the arms, shoulders, and fingers, but not too severe, but it did seem to hinder progress in the weightlifting.

I don't really stretch my upper body muscles. I'll do some calisthenics to warm them up before lifting and that's about it. I definitely do a lot of stretching for my legs. After I run or bike, I will stretch my hamstrings, calves, quads, and achilles tendons. so, four separate stretches. I had trouble with muscle pulls in my calves and feet over this past 2 years. At one point last year I couldn't run for six weeks, but I could still bike. Whenever I have a muscle pull in my legs, I've found that I can do the stairmaster/climber at the gym without bothering it, so that I won't lose too much endurance while healing.

I'll reiterate that the main reason I do weightlifting is to help maintain testosterone production. That's my primary motivation. Increasing muscle mass and strength is secondary. That's why I encourage everyone to hit the weights even if your primary physical activity is something else, especially if you're over 40 years old.
 
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cosine

Woodpecker
I had trouble with muscle pulls in my calves and feet over this past 2 years. At one point last year I couldn't run for six weeks, but I could still bike. Whenever I have a muscle pull in my legs, I've found that I can do the stairmaster/climber at the gym without bothering it, so that I won't lose too much endurance while healing.
It's possible that your gait pattern needs improvement. What heel-toe drop are your running shoes? Is that question obvious or foreign to you? Do you run with a heel strike or mid-foot/ball of foot strike?
I completed the Ironman triathlon this past weekend. After two years of preparation, I'm glad to have it over with. From now on, I'll focus on the shorter distances (sprints and Olympics/standards/intermediates) because they're more fun.
Nice work!!
 

cosine

Woodpecker
This summer I climbed the Matterhorn, Mont Blanc, and a bunch of other peaks in the Alps. Can’t share more than that in order to stay anonymous and those peaks are traveled by many people each year.

What was fascinating was the amount of people telling us these mountains were “closed”. The European heat wave caused permafrost to melt, releasing a lot of natural and deadly rockfall. I think in July what we did would have been a bad idea, but by the time we were there it had re-frozen and was fine.

So by “closed” they just meant that local Swiss guides wouldn’t guide it this year. But there were even still American, Kiwi, Irish, and Slovenian guides there.69C30B4B-A6BC-4A05-A8EB-B39781F006B6.jpeg316D533F-918C-4E29-9318-AB768AA65BEC.jpeg
 

C-Note

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Gold Member
It's possible that your gait pattern needs improvement. What heel-toe drop are your running shoes? Is that question obvious or foreign to you? Do you run with a heel strike or mid-foot/ball of foot strike?
I do minimalist/forefoot (i.e. "barefoot") style running. I made the switch 10 years ago because of severe knee and hip pain. I no longer have the knee or hip problems, but I do get some injuries with my feet, achilles tendons, and calves. I also have "Morton's toe" on my left foot, which means my middle toe extends further than my big toe. That may be one reason I get more injuries, because most of them occur on my left leg. I also injured my left leg in a karate tournament a long time ago. I think, however, that the main reason was just the wear and tear of running more than 20 miles in a week. We'll see how it goes with the shorter distances and higher intensity. If I keep getting nagging injuries, I may need to consult someone about it.
 

C-Note

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Gold Member
This summer I climbed the Matterhorn, Mont Blanc, and a bunch of other peaks in the Alps. Can’t share more than that in order to stay anonymous and those peaks are traveled by many people each year.

What was fascinating was the amount of people telling us these mountains were “closed”. The European heat wave caused permafrost to melt, releasing a lot of natural and deadly rockfall. I think in July what we did would have been a bad idea, but by the time we were there it had re-frozen and was fine.

So by “closed” they just meant that local Swiss guides wouldn’t guide it this year. But there were even still American, Kiwi, Irish, and Slovenian guides there.View attachment 48961View attachment 48962
Great job! From what I understand those peaks require some actual technical climbing, not just scrambling. That's really an accomplishment.
 

amor_fati

Pigeon
Orthodox Inquirer
This summer I climbed the Matterhorn, Mont Blanc, and a bunch of other peaks in the Alps. Can’t share more than that in order to stay anonymous and those peaks are traveled by many people each year.

What was fascinating was the amount of people telling us these mountains were “closed”. The European heat wave caused permafrost to melt, releasing a lot of natural and deadly rockfall. I think in July what we did would have been a bad idea, but by the time we were there it had re-frozen and was fine.

So by “closed” they just meant that local Swiss guides wouldn’t guide it this year. But there were even still American, Kiwi, Irish, and Slovenian guides there.View attachment 48961View attachment 48962
I never understood people thinking nature can be "closed"
 

cosine

Woodpecker
Great job! From what I understand those peaks require some actual technical climbing, not just scrambling. That's really an accomplishment.
Thanks! I climb extensively, so this felt relatively pedestrian. For less experienced people, it's a big objective.

I do minimalist/forefoot (i.e. "barefoot") style running. I made the switch 10 years ago because of severe knee and hip pain. I no longer have the knee or hip problems, but I do get some injuries with my feet, achilles tendons, and calves. I also have "Morton's toe" on my left foot, which means my middle toe extends further than my big toe. That may be one reason I get more injuries, because most of them occur on my left leg. I also injured my left leg in a karate tournament a long time ago. I think, however, that the main reason was just the wear and tear of running more than 20 miles in a week. We'll see how it goes with the shorter distances and higher intensity. If I keep getting nagging injuries, I may need to consult someone about it.
It seems like forefoot strike causes knee problems to subside for most people, but Achilles problems in particular become more common. Sounds like you have a common experience. A good PT is the part of western medicine that's actually still medicine.

I never understood people thinking nature can be "closed"

So apparently this summer, Italy did actually ban climbing on their side of the Matterhorn, aka Monte Cervino. It sounds like they don't enforce it until people need to be rescued, and then they charge them for the rescue, which frankly seems like it should be normal to me. The party that got fined didn't have some catastrophic accident, they simply weren't experienced enough to get down on their own.

I was also surprised that masks weren't required on trains in Switzerland, but they were on trains in Italy. I guessed it'd be the reverse with Switzerland's reputation as being "the land of rules".
 

ultralight_hiker

Sparrow
Protestant
I wish I lived out west. Sadly where I am, best we have are some gentle hills, and as I see it, glorified patches of forest between farms. I've done tons of hiking, but would love to trail run on weekends in the mountains.
 

travelz

 
Banned
Non-Christian
Better to do HIIT
I run sprints instead of jogging or regular running.
This is explosive activity.
Never enjoyed any endurance activities.
In fact, endurance stuff, even long hikes, seems to needlessly elevate my stress levels and doesn't make me feel healthier.
When I was doing endurance stuff, all kinds of depressing thoughts were taking over my head during the exercise.
A sessions of sprints can tear you down really good, heart loaded and all, while very little time gets spent on it and a great feeling after.
I also do oly lifting for reps, which feels like like plyo with added weight (real oly lifts involve jumping), definitely good cardio load.
 
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