Engagement Game

I was reading some guys wondering about whether it was worth getting married and thinking perhaps what would be useful for such men, or men in the process of looking to get married, for engagement game.

During the initial pickup process, men select for the various traits that matter to them, and after they get married, well, it's maintenance from there. But what about that wide gap between the initial attraction building process and marriage?

What observations can married men make about what worked, or didn't, for their engagement?
What red flags apply or become apparent during engagement that are less critical during the first dates?
Should men dump a wad of money on an engagement ring?
What "game" works to help best negotiate good marital conditions moving forward?
How long ideally should the engagement process be?
Any experience with pre-marital couples counseling?
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
What red flags apply or become apparent during engagement that are less critical during the first dates?
During courtship you mostly learn if your personalities mesh. During engagement you get to see if you can work together as a team. Planning a wedding and doing marriage prep is like a big school project, so you get to see how well she communicates, follows you, and deals with roadblocks.
Should men dump a wad of money on an engagement ring?
Absolutely not, you should ask around your family and see if anyone has an old ring they can give you. It doesn't have to be extravagant, or even sentimental. If she's the right girl, she won't mind. She'll be too ecstatic over the engagement and love that it's a "family heirloom."
What "game" works to help best negotiate good marital conditions moving forward?
She should know your expectations prior to engagement.
How long ideally should the engagement process be?
I'd say 6 months.
Word of advice to all my Catholic bros out there, every diocese has different engagement rubrics. You might have to be engaged for x amount of months, and you might have to go through certain classes to get married. I recommend you find out these requirements ASAP so that you can plan your engagement accordingly.
Any experience with pre-marital couples counseling?
I'm doing some with my priest and it's been very helpful. In this day and age we don't have many examples of healthy marriages, and it's helpful to meet with a priest to learn a thing or two. I've also done FOCCUS which I recommend to everyone here (Catholic and not). It's an easy way to make sure you're on the same page about everything. It forces you to go through topics that you might've otherwise overlooked, and gives you opportunity to identify areas that need improvement.
 
During courtship you mostly learn if your personalities mesh. During engagement you get to see if you can work together as a team. Planning a wedding and doing marriage prep is like a big school project, so you get to see how well she communicates, follows you, and deals with roadblocks.

Absolutely not, you should ask around your family and see if anyone has an old ring they can give you. It doesn't have to be extravagant, or even sentimental. If she's the right girl, she won't mind. She'll be too ecstatic over the engagement and love that it's a "family heirloom."

She should know your expectations prior to engagement.

I'd say 6 months.
Word of advice to all my Catholic bros out there, every diocese has different engagement rubrics. You might have to be engaged for x amount of months, and you might have to go through certain classes to get married. I recommend you find out these requirements ASAP so that you can plan your engagement accordingly.

I'm doing some with my priest and it's been very helpful. In this day and age we don't have many examples of healthy marriages, and it's helpful to meet with a priest to learn a thing or two. I've also done FOCCUS which I recommend to everyone here (Catholic and not). It's an easy way to make sure you're on the same page about everything. It forces you to go through topics that you might've otherwise overlooked, and gives you opportunity to identify areas that need improvement.
"During courtship you mostly learn if your personalities mesh. During engagement you get to see if you can work together as a team. Planning a wedding and doing marriage prep is like a big school project, so you get to see how well she communicates, follows you, and deals with roadblocks."

Dang... I never thought about it that way! And so planning a wedding can actually be a "shit test" for the woman, from the man, and she would have no idea. But it would take a will of iron to break up with the woman, who you would most likely have deep feelings for at such a late stage in things, if she should seriously fail the test.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
"During courtship you mostly learn if your personalities mesh. During engagement you get to see if you can work together as a team. Planning a wedding and doing marriage prep is like a big school project, so you get to see how well she communicates, follows you, and deals with roadblocks."

Dang... I never thought about it that way! And so planning a wedding can actually be a "shit test" for the woman, from the man, and she would have no idea. But it would take a will of iron to break up with the woman, who you would most likely have deep feelings for at such a late stage in things, if she should seriously fail the test.
At this point hopefully things don't get so bad that you have to break up. You should be able to judge her teamwork skills early on in the relationship. For example does she balk when you plan dates, is she on time? Does she follow your lead when you're out and about.

The engagement & wedding planning are just a "bigger stage" for you to really see how well you work together. Then, you can identify problem areas and fine tune how things work.
 

TrifeLife

Woodpecker
Alternatives to large engagement ring expenditure

I'm going to propose to my girlfriend in the next year or two. When it comes to the engagement ring there is the expectation of a certain level of expenditure relative to your wealth or the "3 months salary" and it's completely nonsense. My girl understands this and is not a superficial person, but women view it as a reflection of their worth at least to some degree, especially when it comes to comparisons with their sisters/ friends etc.

I'm not broke but I'm not flush with cash at this point either. As a pragmatic guy I just can't justify spending 5-10 grand on a pointless piece of jewelry as that is a significant sum of money for me. Even 2gs seems retarded at this point. That being said, I'd like to do something nice for her as a gesture in addition to a basic ring. I don't have a problem spending $10-15k or so on something that has some lasting practical value. The only idea I have so far is some high end professional video equipment because as she is in the process of building an online business which includes a youtube channel.

What do you guys think of this idea?
 
A big part of "marriage material" game is getting to know her family. You will be making decisions as to where to spend holidays, family members will visit, and there may even be family business considerations. I'd say a considerable part of the dating phase should be courtship involving both your families. It's even to your benefit as her family member's "on your side" can smooth the infatuation into partner evaluation phase.
When it comes to the engagement ring there is the expectation of a certain level of expenditure relative to your wealth or the "3 months salary" and it's completely nonsense. My girl understands this and is not a superficial person, but women view it as a reflection of their worth at least to some degree, especially when it comes to comparisons with their sisters/ friends etc.
Not a bad idea if she has maturity in her business decisions. I like that it would keep her out of the corporate wage slave role and allow her to fold her existing interests into family life.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Moderator
Alternatives to large engagement ring expenditure

I'm going to propose to my girlfriend in the next year or two. When it comes to the engagement ring there is the expectation of a certain level of expenditure relative to your wealth or the "3 months salary" and it's completely nonsense. My girl understands this and is not a superficial person, but women view it as a reflection of their worth at least to some degree, especially when it comes to comparisons with their sisters/ friends etc.

I'm not broke but I'm not flush with cash at this point either. As a pragmatic guy I just can't justify spending 5-10 grand on a pointless piece of jewelry as that is a significant sum of money for me. Even 2gs seems retarded at this point. That being said, I'd like to do something nice for her as a gesture in addition to a basic ring. I don't have a problem spending $10-15k or so on something that has some lasting practical value. The only idea I have so far is some high end professional video equipment because as she is in the process of building an online business which includes a youtube channel.

What do you guys think of this idea?
If your girlfriend requires you buy her an expensive ring, she's not the one. Wait until you find out how much the wedding costs.
 
my opinion, only two cents here

I believe merely in genuine attraction and moral and sexual affinity. only that.

I say this because I have seen couples who got married in the church separating and I have seen men leaving their wives to marry prostitutes who satisfied him.
I met a married man without children who changed his wife to a single mother, because I think this one is more dynamic and independent.

when you meet a woman and you feel comfortable with her, nothing else matters ...

if you have a standard aesthetic or specific behavior do not negotiate it but be prepared to be surprised because you do not choose women as you choose a car.

what makes a relationship last and sexual and physical treatment and plans for the common future, projects.

no, you shouldn't spend too much on a ring, there is already a study showing that the more expensive the ring, the more likely it is to fail.

if you have doubts don't marry or get engaged.
 
I was reading some guys wondering about whether it was worth getting married and thinking perhaps what would be useful for such men, or men in the process of looking to get married, for engagement game.

During the initial pickup process, men select for the various traits that matter to them, and after they get married, well, it's maintenance from there. But what about that wide gap between the initial attraction building process and marriage?

What observations can married men make about what worked, or didn't, for their engagement?
What red flags apply or become apparent during engagement that are less critical during the first dates?
Should men dump a wad of money on an engagement ring?
What "game" works to help best negotiate good marital conditions moving forward?
How long ideally should the engagement process be?
Any experience with pre-marital couples counseling?
An engagement as I understand it, is a time for the man and woman to focus exclusively on each other to see if marriage is going to happen. Going steady to see if there is any reason not to get married. In my case, I was over 9000 miles away from the woman I proposed to online, and had known her for 18 days. After she said yes I flew to the Philippines and we got married.

We had already decided to get married for better or for worse. I don't know what would have had to happen for me to change my mind. When I proposed to her I was all in; committed. I always figured engagement was just the next step before an inevitable marriage but others see it as a way to further process.

I think the engagement process should always be short, as in a couple of months or less, for the purpose of avoiding fornication. Even two months might be too long for some people to resist. The problem is wanting to get as many family members there as possible and waiting on everybody's schedules which I think is a big mistake. Just Get Married.

I understand wanting to vet someone out because marriage is a big step to take, but FWIW, I think it comes down to commitment. If both feel they will be committed then just get married.

I was older when I got married and spent 4200 on the rings for us. That is probably less than what the jewelry stores suggest but they have a reason for that!

Pre marriage counseling I think is a very good idea, I think annual marriage counseling is a good idea, and I would do that if my wife liked the idea too. Basically what you will hear is that you need to not be selfless, be forgiving, yield your bodies sexually always, as a husband put your wife first, sacrifice for her to the point of death if necessary, don't be violent, speak kind words, build her up. That's the gist of it. This is what you should hear at a church wedding.
 
I have always told my gf's no babies, no married. I finally figured out that they thought I meant neither babies or married when what I was saying was no married unless there are babies. And I finally figured out they do not understand linear thinking. Everything has to be circular logic (nonsense). No wonder I have spent my life single and clueless. If only i had a million for every time one of them wanted the ring, then i would be rich.
 
I have always told my gf's no babies, no married. I finally figured out that they thought I meant neither babies or married when what I was saying was no married unless there are babies. And I finally figured out they do not understand linear thinking. Everything has to be circular logic (nonsense). No wonder I have spent my life single and clueless. If only i had a million for every time one of them wanted the ring, then i would be rich.
Sounds to me like you've had more success than most with women wanting to get married.
 
Sounds to me like you've had more success than most with women wanting to get married.
I was almost engaged once around 2001. When we spent several days together, I liked her for the first day, was getting bored the second day and then the thrid day I couldn't stand to be around her. When she started nesting I remember asking her when do I get what I wanted. Her response, "what could you possibly want?" I suppose she never even thought about what I wanted.

But looking back, she must have been the one: fertile, good job & ready. I can only joke about it now. I wish i would have started my own tribe back then...now I have to find someone else's tribe for my social support. I remember when I broke up with her I heard God's voice in my head saying that she wasn't going to last. I said I am ok with that because I thought I would get another chance with a female with higher SMV.

I think you have great opportunities ahead of you GW, in my opinion it is a numbers game. Gotta get out there and meet a hundred of them and one of them will work out. Like Vox Day says, it's worth the risk. Best. D
 
I was almost engaged once around 2001. When we spent several days together, I liked her for the first day, was getting bored the second day and then the thrid day I couldn't stand to be around her. When she started nesting I remember asking her when do I get what I wanted. Her response, "what could you possibly want?" I suppose she never even thought about what I wanted.

But looking back, she must have been the one: fertile, good job & ready. I can only joke about it now. I wish i would have started my own tribe back then...now I have to find someone else's tribe for my social support. I remember when I broke up with her I heard God's voice in my head saying that she wasn't going to last. I said I am ok with that because I thought I would get another chance with a female with higher SMV.

I think you have great opportunities ahead of you GW, in my opinion it is a numbers game. Gotta get out there and meet a hundred of them and one of them will work out. Like Vox Day says, it's worth the risk. Best. D
I've been married for five years but had to leave the country to find a wife. As slow as the opportunites were coming to me here I would be dead before something happened. My Filipina wife and I got married in less than eight weeks and we were many thousands of miles apart. You are correct with the numbers, that is where it was easier for me to find someone who just wanted a decent man to love them and help them support their family. She has repaid me many times over with being a good wife.
 
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