Entropy (Movement Toward Chaos) as a Social Theory

Johnny Rico

Johnny Rico

 
Banned
I have been reading about this theory and have brought it up a few times but I felt it needed its own thread. Entropy, by definition, is a gradual and inevitable movement toward chaos. It is derived from the Second Law of Thermodynamics which applies originally to machines but some biologists and sociologists are relating it to human cells, human bodies and also, human societies. Just like how our cells die, we die, and our societies will die as well.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that processes that involve the transfer or conversion of heat energy are irreversible. ... The Second Law also states that there is a natural tendency of any isolated system to degenerate into a more disordered state.
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So basically, if you turn your car on with an unlimited fuel supply - the likely hood of failure increases with each second until it no longer runs. As you age the likely hood of your body failing increases. As a society ages - well, you get the point.

Here are a few quotes from an informative website on this theory.

Entropy: The Hidden Force That Complicates Life

All things trend toward disorder. More specifically, the second law of thermodynamics states that “as one goes forward in time, the net entropy (degree of disorder) of any isolated or closed system will always increase (or at least stay the same).”[1]


Entropy is simply a measure of disorder and affects all aspects of our daily lives. In fact, you can think of it as nature’s tax.[2]


Left unchecked disorder increases over time. Energy disperses, and systems dissolve into chaos. The more disordered something is, the more entropic we consider it. In short, we can define entropy as a measure of the disorder of the universe, on both a macro and a microscopic level. The Greek root of the word translates to “a turning towards transformation” — with that transformation being chaos.
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As you read this article, entropy is all around you. Cells within your body are dying and degrading, an employee or coworker is making a mistake, the floor is getting dusty, and the heat from your coffee is spreading out. Zoom out a little, and businesses are failing, crimes and revolutions are occurring, and relationships are ending. Zoom out a lot further, and we see the entire universe marching towards a collapse.
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We have all observed entropy in our everyday lives. Everything tends towards disorder. Life always seems to get more complicated. Once-tidy rooms become cluttered and dusty. Strong relationships grow fractured and end. Formerly youthful faces wrinkle and hair turns grey. Complex skills are forgotten. Buildings degrade as brickwork cracks, paint chips, and tiles loosen.


Entropy is an important mental model because it applies to every part of our lives. It is inescapable, and even if we try to ignore it, the result is a collapse of some sort. Truly understanding entropy leads to a radical change in the way we see the world. Ignorance of it is responsible for many of our biggest mistakes and failures. We cannot expect anything to stay the way we leave it. To maintain our health, relationships, careers, skills, knowledge, societies, and possessions requires never-ending effort and vigilance. Disorder is not a mistake; it is our default. Order is always artificial and temporary.
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What I take away from this personally is a glimmer of hope. Yes, we're screwed. However that is simply the way of things - every human was, is and always will be screwed. 'Normies' don't think about societal collapse just like they don't think of their own deaths... its something to turn a blind eye to. So my take is that even though we may be living in the Honkiest part of modern history - its simply the entropy of our society according to natural law.

A short video:

 
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SleveMcDichael

SleveMcDichael

Robin
A quick clarification is that the Second Law of Thermodynamics utilizes entropy in is definition, but it was based on Greek origins of "transformation" and "work". In data communications and data analysis the entropy of the system is the fundamental amount of information contained per bit. I say this because it is useful therefore in building the coding and symbolism used (IE developing the compression available for the MPEG file format).

Therefore entropy can also been seen as a baseline of the behavior of a system; a machine at infinity after process completion/or failure, the raw amount of information in a transmission methodology, but I'm unsure it can be structured merely to characterize a society's tendency toward disorder.

In that sense I agree with Radoste that its often the result of a nihilistic view of sociology. It conflates a rigid view of a system degradation to the the fall of a society. The theory is proposed at the height (or other stage of advancement) of a civilization as an arbitrary starting point, rather than the looking at human civilization from is origins.

Why is the starting point important? Because it removes the previously nihilistic approach. If you characterize a society at its baseline, migrant or nomadic people with little advancement beyond hunter gatherer status, you now can identify what improved the society (language, government, religion, and other social structures) in its habitus. I find that approach more applicable. It is more inclusive of all societies, the indigenous groups that do not advance, as well as the modern west. It also can begin to identify important advancements (bartering economics, a concise written/spoken language, the concept of "0" in mathematics).

Finally, entropy (with its applications to dynamical systems) does not account for intelligent application of disruptive (or constructive) events. It is a statistical measure of random effects in the myriad of micro states of a vast number of considerations. Entropy does not account for the "wrench thrown into the works" for example; although this may cause a much greater disruption than a merely predictive failure of a system in operation. The human mind is the wild card in society that can work great good or bad that "entropy" can't quite accurately account for.

In conclusion, I find that entropy, in sociology, is the characterization of mans fallen nature and tendency toward sin that atheistic philosophers can't quite quantify or explain by a humanistic view. After all, if man is naturally good; how do societies fall or have injustice? It explains why I find it a middling analogue to the more quantified and defined characterization in the scientific world. Lastly, it seems to never break away from its degenerate outlook and point folks to the constructive elements of a society that achieved the high state of order in the first place.
 
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Johnny Rico

Johnny Rico

 
Banned
Well Sleve definitely made a post above my paygrade so to speak. Interesting stuff.

I'm relating the entropy of society theory with Sir Glubb's essay Fate of Empires - an essay likely read by many on this forum. All things have a life span. A wild rabbit lives one or two years. The average American lives 80 years. And according to Glubb, the average lifespan of an empire is 250 years. America is currently 244 years old.

If one has been paying attention it appears our society's mental health has declined MASSIVELY in the past decade. The US has had its problems in the past but its unlike what we are seeing now. Nihilist I may be but my point is this is nothing new. The Romans, the Egyptians, the Persians etc all saw the same thing.

When I see Muzzle Nazis, Antifa toppling statues and rioting in the street, race based violence... I don't see evil people. I see mob-based mental illness. Any one of these people could be living a moral life if living under different circumstances.
 
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MusicForThePiano

Pelican
Well, you know, there is the ordo ab chao thing these dudes talk about in these secret circle jerk meetings, so in a way I guess it is kind of driven towards it from a social engineering standpoint, seeing as how the shepherd of that steering is also the benefactor of its harvest.
 
M

MiroKlose

Sparrow
Is disorder the divine order? Is everything in this universe random and in disorder? Is what we think of order the actual disorder? Is it just an illusion that when we have things in order we have control over it? May be in reality whenever we create order out of disorder (divine order) we get equal and opposite effect against it sometimes may be a few seconds later or sometimes maybe a few thousand years later. Should we learn to dance to the tunes of the divine order (disorder)?
 
J

jordypip23

Ostrich
Gold Member
Easy_C said:
If you think stupid people can't be evil, I suggest you do a tour of duty somewhere. Plenty of places are full of 80 IQ people who are extremely cruel and evil.
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Yep. Stupid people tend to be impulsive by nature. And stupid people acting on impulses can inflict a lot of harm, damage, evil. I mean, just go to any hardcore ghetto in America and you know what I'm talking about. They might not be enacting it on a large scale like the elite, but on a microlevel they can make life pretty hellish.
 
Johnny Rico

Johnny Rico

 
Banned
Easy_C said:
If you think stupid people can't be evil, I suggest you do a tour of duty somewhere. Plenty of places are full of 80 IQ people who are extremely cruel and evil.
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I think there is a difference between inherently evil and possessed. If a person is born into a shithole where war, gangs, drugs etc are their only options and they lack the intellect or wisdom to escape it... I don't consider that person evil but rather possessed by evil. Had the same person been born into an affluent suburban family their life's arc would be different. It is the people pulling the strings from a position of power, who have the ability to do good if they chose, I consider inherently evil souls.
 
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